MGS Story question

[Asknoone]

Well, opinions are not facts. And your opinion about Half Life > MGS is pretty much an opinion also.

If you don't like my opinion, though luck. Deal with it.

Yeah, that might explain the IMO in my post.

How? Face it, Half-Life focused more on action and gameplay than character development and plot. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because you know what? the Half-Life games have better gameplay. I'm just saying that MGS has more of a focus on plot-like elements, therefore it's better. Not to mention that...hey...I liked the characters and story of MGS better.

Alot of the plot in Half-life 2 is layered into the environment, as well as the themes it explores. Kojima prefers to slap them in your face at any opportunity, and sadly, instead of subtly putting across his messages he loads them onto a freight train and sets course for the player at full speed.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Better character development? Thats abit of a joke.

No? The entire game is a development of the characters involved. Some find redemption, others another reason to live, etc. I guess the only joke would be that the game is all about character development so that point is null .

 

[Asknoone]

Ok, maybe 'joke' was silly. But I still didn't get anywhere with some of them.

 

[Sui]

Samon, Half-Life definately lacks character development. Even Alyx, who is an amazing digital character, isn't well developed. I mean, when I saw her basically dead in the Episode Two trailer, I didn't really give a shit, because I know bugger all about her. I do, however, think she's the best female character in video gaming (she smashes annoying, male-orientated portrayals of women on the head), but I'd say the way she is presented is... interesting, and not wholly efficient. Why? No one ever actually talks to Alyx, it's just her topicless monologue, which can get extremely irritating.

 

[esplin]

Alyx is one of the greatest characters in a videogame because her character develops in a whole new way. Instead of having random intersecting movies where Alyx talks about her torrid past or random scenes where Alyx and Gordon have an "emotional" her character evolves through her actions.

At first it seems like nothing can bog Alyx down, but then she reaches the stalker train and we see her when she has reached her limit. Alyx also avoids many of the videogame cliches, shes not a hardcore soldier chick, shes not a damsel in distress, and shes not merely a love interest.

Kojima couldn't have created a character like Alyx if he had stolen the code from Valve itself.

 

[Slacker]

Kojima couldn't have created a character like Alyx if he had stolen the code from Valve itself.

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[esplin]

Which character would that be?

The Bond girl ripoff in MGS 3 or the tough-girl stereotype from MGS 1.

 

[Slacker]

Which character would that be?

The Bond girl ripoff in MGS 3 or the tough-girl stereotype from MGS 1.

Hey look, you took two well-developed characters and generalized them! Good job!

 

[esplin]

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

And you made a very general statement with no evidence to back it up. YIPEE!

 

[Slacker]

And you made a very general statement with no evidence to back it up. YIPEE!

Do I need to back it up? No. You took two characters from the series and generalized them. Simple as that. And guess what, you didn't back up YOUR post either! So good game, hypocrite.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Which character would that be?

The Bond girl ripoff in MGS 3 or the tough-girl stereotype from MGS 1.

Did you even play the games?

 

[Slacker]

Did you even play the games?

I was wondering that same thing too, actually.

 

[esplin]

Yes. I just find that Metal Gear's story was a little cliched, and I don't find any female character that purposely shows of her bra for 3/4 of the game to be a very original character.

 

[Slacker]

Yes. I just find that Metal Gear's story was a little cliched, and I don't find any female character that purposely shows of her bra for 3/4 of the game to be a very original character.

And a female character with no backstory or personality does?

 

[esplin]

What backstory does Alyx need? Should she stop in the middle of the game (Kojima-style) and just start blabbering.

"Oh, why Gordon? Why must we continue to fight the Combine? After those 30 years I spent in a mexican prison I thought the torture would be over, but it has only begun."
"Why do you fight, Gordon? Do you fight for your loved ones? for your friends? for your precious crowbar? By the way, I'm going to unzip my shirt and show off my abnormally large knockers, try not to stare while I continue to muse about the past."

Gordon: "Knockers?"

 

[Slacker]

"Oh, why Gordon? Why must we continue to fight the Combine? After those 30 years I spent in a mexican prison I thought the torture would be over, but it has only begun."
"Why do you fight Gordon? Do you fight for your loved ones? for your friends? for your precious crowbar? By the way I'm going to unzip my shirt and show off my abnormally large knockers, try not to stare while I continue to muse about the past."

Gordon: "Knockers?"

No. I'm not saying that. Like I said to Samon, HL doesn't have bad character development, it just doesn't focus on it as much as MGS, therefore, it's pretty much worse by default. Feel free to continue ignoring my points though.

and for the record, none of the MGS characters really ever go on rants like that.

 

[esplin]

Did you even play MGS3? Did Boss do anything besides musing?

 

[DeusExMachina]

It isn't like the character's suddenly started a monologue about how bad their lives have been :|. You don't learn much about Eva until the very end of MGS3 when all the action's over. And with Meryl, she popped a few tidbits about her history every now and then, but nothing that lasted over a minute or two.

Did you even play MGS3? Did Boss do anything besides musing?

I...don't understand the question? What musings exactly?

 

[Slacker]

Did you even play MGS3? Did Boss do anything besides musing?

Gee, I don't know, said things relevant to the plot?

 

[esplin]

Just so you know I did enjoy MGS3, but the simple fact that it took itself so seriously while having all these soap opera moments was hilarious. MGS had these, but not nearly as bad.

Edit: Just to get this off my chest. Why does Eva putting on glasses and pulling her hair up completely disguise her from Ocelot. He gets run over by her bike, but when she shows up an hour later wearing glasses he suddenly doesn't recognize her.

 

[DeusExMachina]

She was wearing a helmet when they encountered each other.

And even if she wasn't, the point raises another question: Why don't people realize Clark Kent is Superman? It's just a little suspension of disbelief. I mean, there are ghosts flying around in the game.

 

[esplin]

That's true. It just bugs me when MGS goes from a long monologue on the horrors of the Cold War and Globalization to "OH NOEZ. EVIL BEEKEEPER!"

It's just odd.

 

[Slacker]

That's true. It just bugs me when MGS goes from a long monologue on the horrors of the Cold War and Globalization to "OH NOEZ. EVIL BEEKEEPER!"

It's just odd.

It didn't feel any more "odd" than it should have to me...

 

[DeusExMachina]

I never really saw them go into a monologue about that. MGS3 seemed to me more like losing faith in one's country and the questioning of people's motives with the Cold War thrown on top. The whole game is about Big Boss's "fall from grace." As much as I love MGS2, that was the only MGS game that really put it in front of your face. MGS and MGS3 were fairly subtle.

 

[AmishSlayer]

Ignoring the existence of the rollerskating mad bomber, the magical arm that possesses a mans mind and can take control of the host, the woman with the ability to divert anything shot at her, the Vampire (yeah, Vampire) who never dies, the man who can control bees, the man with the forked tongue and the...dead man.

And Half-life is science fiction.

Hey. I never said MGS games are more realistic than HL games. I was merely saying that both have plenty of supernatural in them when neither set out to be completely realistic.

EDIT: Ocelot could have easily just pretended not to notice to further his mission with the Patriots. He's obviously been able to deceive and manipulate on more than one ocassion for the Patriots' purposes.

 

[Slacker]

Hey. I never said MGS games are more realistic than HL games. I was merely saying that both have plenty of supernatural in them when neither set out to be completely realistic.

I dunno, the first one wasn't exactly "SUPERNATURAL" other than the Gray Fox character, respectivally.

 

[AmishSlayer]

I dunno, the first one wasn't exactly "SUPERNATURAL" other than the Gray Fox character, respectivally.

Psycho Mantis was a little far-fetched, same with Decoy Octopus and Raven.

Amost all the bosses in MGS games have a touch of supernatural to them which I think makes it more interesting.

 

[Slacker]

Psycho Mantis was a little far-fetched, same with Decoy Octopus and Raven.

Amost all the bosses in MGS games have a touch of supernatural to them which I think makes it more interesting.

Eh, true, but the story wasn't "BLAH BLAH THE WORLD IS RULED BY 12 DEAD DUDES" or "LOOK AT THE GHOST WITH THE EXIT KEY TO YOUR CELL"

 

[AmishSlayer]

Eh, true, but the story wasn't "BLAH BLAH THE WORLD IS RULED BY 12 DEAD DUDES" or "LOOK AT THE GHOST WITH THE EXIT KEY TO YOUR CELL"

Oh hell no. The overall story is VERY based in real settings and that's one other thing I like about the series. Just some of the characters had some reality-bending powers.

 

[Fliko]

Personally, I think MGS1 is a far better singleplayer game than Half-Life 1. HL1 is great and all, but at the end of the day, it was the engine and the mod scene which brought it success. The storyline was intriguingly vague, but still extremely vague, and I'd rather have a rollercoaster ride full of plot twists and exciting drama than a line of dialogue every 2 hours. In MGS, you know who the characters are, you care for them, you hate them, you travel with them. You know them. In HL1, you have no idea who anyone is or what their purpose is. "Woah, who's that guy? ...I have no idea."

MGS2 was... okay... well... meh. I enjoyed it, but It's not very good. Mainly because of the weirdness. But a very fun game, and the graphics were simply amazing for when the PS2 was released.

QFT..

I never knew what the hell I was doing in HL1.

But in MGS.. well, I knew what I was doing, I knew every character, and I felt for them

 

[ktimekiller]

:O i started a flame war, EVERYONE GTFO MY THREAD!!

The faq read basically told the entire story to me, thanks, i enjoyed reading it

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I thought the first two were average at best and third was herecy to all gaming. it was boring...and well, crap.

QFT..

I never knew what the hell I was doing in HL1.

But in MGS.. well, I knew what I was doing, I knew every character, and I felt for them

If you listened to the dialogue AT THE SAME TIME as playing (a very difficult feat I know ) then you would have known.

 

[Sui]

To this day I have never seen a game which has perfect character development.

MGS has flaws in that the characters go off on "deep", lengthy rants when they really should be killing terrorists.

HL doesn't actually have much character development.

Now let's leave it at that. MGS and HL are my two favorite game series - DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE ;(

 

[Asknoone]

Samon, Half-Life definately lacks character development. Even Alyx, who is an amazing digital character, isn't well developed. I mean, when I saw her basically dead in the Episode Two trailer, I didn't really give a shit, because I know bugger all about her. I do, however, think she's the best female character in video gaming (she smashes annoying, male-orientated portrayals of women on the head), but I'd say the way she is presented is... interesting, and not wholly efficient. Why? No one ever actually talks to Alyx, it's just her topicless monologue, which can get extremely irritating.

I disagree. Half-life 2 develops it's characters in a different way, a way which I prefer. To me, Alyx is extremely developed. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say she never talks to anyone - you'd be missing out on Kleiners lab, Black Mesa east, Ravenholms end, Nova Prospekt, Entanglement, Anti-Citizen 1 and Dark Energy. And a few more chapters of Episode 1.
I love the way Alyx is presented, and developed, and it's a far more interesting mechanic than that utilized in MGS.

Hey. I never said MGS games are more realistic than HL games. I was merely saying that both have plenty of supernatural in them when neither set out to be completely realistic.

Honest misunderstanding.

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

Yeah, 'The Pain'. Or evil Volgin, toting his scarred face and electric hand busters. Woo.

And a female character with no backstory or personality does?

So now your just talking shit.