Misinformation, misconceptions, and so on

[Hapless]

Don't expect there to suddenly be a day when people will say; "hey, we're no 'free' anymore" much less, "we have no power, lets fight back" because it happens so slowly that you simply dont notice.

Like I put in another thread about this, there's a cycle that holds true with the loss of democracy; it was written about in great detail in 1770 by a man named Alexander Tyler in a book called "The Cycle of Democracy"



Complacency leads only to bad things, and a citizens can not afford to fall asleep at the helm of a country because they become dependant, and thus come under the control of what is quite simply a totalitarian regime.
It may not happen tommorow, but I'm more than certain thats where the US is heading- where most nations are head.

Do you realize that when I became a police officer almost 8 years ago, I could stop a car I thought had dope in it based on an unrelated traffic offense, request consent to search the vehicle once it was stopped, interview occupants of the vehicle other than the driver, and so on? Within the last 2 years, all of that is changed. Now I have to have reasonable suspicion that dope is in the car before I can start asking questions about dope. I cannot request consent to search the vehicle, because one of the lovely appellate courts in my state has found that consent can not be considered valid under the auspices of a traffic stop. I can no longer speak to or request ID from any other occupants of the vehicle unless they have also committed a violation. Bear in mind, all this is only in my state, and it goes against reams and reams of Federal case law, and will hopefully be overturned. But it seems to me that the average citizen's freedoms have INCREASED over the last few years, while my hands keep getting tied more and more. It's gotten to the point where I don't even stop cars anymore unless they do something stupid right in front of me. And if I do stop them, I have to give them at least a written warning. There is no such thing as a verbal warning in my state anymore. These are just a few examples of how things have changed. Police state? I think not.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I've always considered Tyler's writing a warning against socialism of all things.

You also have to take into account, the now global community- it didn't exist as a network so much as it does now back then. Take into account earth shaking events that had effects on ALL nations, things such as World Wars, the US/subsequent world depression preceeding WW2, etc.

There have been various -'wake ups.' We're no where near to that last area or even the last half of the dynastic cycle.

 

[bliink]

I've always considered Tyler's writing a warning against socialism of all things.

It's more of an observance, but he is certainly opposed to any radical form of government.. however, i tend to find it all quite depressing; he's rather a cynical person when you look at it, but I tend to agree with him.

And of course, now that we are a larger global community, you would expect the phases of change to be more subtle, because they occur on a far greater, global scale... its not just the US this applies to, but more accurately, most of the developed world

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Alright, I've seen numerous threads here with posts from non-Americans (or rather, non-U.S. Americans), which make bold statements such as:
"Well, in America the police/FBI/government can just come into your house with no reason whatsoever, no warrant, nothing"
"America is worse than China and North Korea these days"
"America is no longer the land of the free"

It's rather amusing that none of these posters happen to LIVE in the U.S. I've lived here for 32 years now, and am no less free now than I was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, whatever. Searches still require search warrants, arrests still require arrest warrants, or articulable probable cause. If this is the kind of crap you people in other countries are getting from your media outlets, it's no wonder there is such a poor opinion of us, or at least Bush.
If you'd like to talk about Guantanamo Bay, fine, but to my mind, that falls outside of the realm of the civilian judicial system. Like it or not, we are at war, and it is a war visited on us by others. I suspect there is nothing going on there that hasn't gone on in every other previous war the U.S. has been engaged in. I would also venture to say that the people incarcerated there are being treated better than they would in just about any other country's POW camp.
Pulling someone's fingernails out one by one is torture. Shoving bamboo shoots underneath one's fingernails is torture. Electrocution is torture. Depriving someone of food until they waste away is torture. What is NOT torture is sleep deprivation. Yelling at someone doesn't count either. Having someone stand on a box with pieces of wire attached to them is not torture. Get over it for God's (or Allah, or Yahweh, or whoever you choose to believe in) sake.


<joke> I hope there are enough words here to satisfy the government agent standing over my shoulder<joke>

Good post, although I think its fair to say I dont agree with everything stated.

However, the point is gold. You get a ... uh ... smile face! ... <snoops around database>

There! Have teh kitteh!

I'm tired of you people and your ****ing hypocracy

Oh, yea?! ... well ... well ... ...well ... .... ..well

uh no, your property can be searched without your knowledge, your private property. It can be confiscated (sp?) and there is nothing you can do about it, i've seen it happen.

Yes, but there's usually a reason behind it. Putting aside a criminals cry of victimization, searches, raids, or checks happen within the authority and law of the United States government.

There exist a system of checks and balances associated with searches or evidence theories. If something is substantial enough, they'll check something. While it seems random, some of them are trying to act on the best interest for the people commiting crimes, and the soon to be victims.

In school maybe...

In schools, teacher's have to. You dont want some FragHead coming in with a pocket knive slashing and stabbing people.

welp i didn't feel like reading that whole post but i do live in america. also your obviously older then 32 so then... how can someone 32 or older not know about the patriot act 1 and 2 and what it contains? cuz you know it does state that the fed's or gov't period can search you or your property w/o probable cause. it may have not happened to someone you know, or someone who didn't deserve it yet. but w/ the power right there on their fingertips, you better belive that power will be abused.

Is your "GangBang" avatar associated with Tupac Shakeur's "Gang Bangin'" tour?

Or is it just another euphism for "GangBang" -- like Gangsters robbing, shooting, fighting, doing drugs ...?

If its the first the one, the extremities are'nt that substantial. If its the second one, then I could see why someone like yourself would fear the Patriot Act.

One of the reasons I've seen a lot of Americans object to a ban on firearms is that then the government has got too much power at its fingertips. Enough to strip more civil liberties.
So, of course there's always the worry that this might happen whatever side of the fence you're sitting on.

I dont object to people owning firearms. I just object to people purchasing weapons, they're only going abuse its rights for.

I'am not for a ban on FireArms. If one was enacted, I'd prefer the militia law to be enacted.

"Uh, say Mr. Terrorist/Insurgent/Innocent Iraqi, would you mind terribly telling us who wants to kill us and...oh yeah, where those people might be located at this particular point in time? We would very much like to make nice with them and invite them over for tea."

That made me chuckle. Its a good, and pretty truthful retort.

That is not even a valid ****ing argument. I don't owe you shit if you support warmongering and the curbing of civil liberties.

So what do you want me to do? Fight you? Launch a whole new wave of domestic terrorism? Start a civil war? Just so I can get what I want?

Alright, Absinthe, he was'nt farting in your face.

He was saying, if people appreciate for what they have, they would instead fight for it instead of cower and complain about it.

I think you owe it to yourself, that at some point you were planning to be erased or rights made illegal, that you would instead fight then oppose yourself by cowering and complaining.

There are hardly any US haters here, merely people who don't agree with the Bush kabinet, but there are some loonies from down under who take everything out of context and scream US bashers to everyone with whom they don't agree.

Actually, they're are US "hata's" here. Your arguement is a simple screen for they're kind of behavior.

If you dont agree with the Bush "Kabinet", then perhaps you should try to find a mend to agree with your own country.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Ah, then your fine. I dont mind people that smoke pot or do any kind of drug -- what I dont like is when people try to trick you, or get someone else to beat you up just because.

Your fine -- so long as GangBangin' does'nt involve stomping on everything poor or out of position.

 

[burner69]

Patriot Act 2, if used in the right 'spirit' will be a nice little addition to help the USA fight off these terrorists trying to blow you up for no reason whatsoever (a war started by them, indeed).

However it has the POTENTIAL, legally, to be used to create a police state.

It can be used for:
* Authorizing the government to initiate wiretaps and other electronic surveillance on Americans who have no ties to foreign governments or powers (sec. 101)
* Sheltering federal agents engaged in illegal surveillance without a court order from criminal prosecution if they are following orders of high Executive Branch officials (Section 106)
* Further expanding pen register and trap and trace authority for intelligence surveillance of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents beyond terrorism investigations (Section 107)
* Using an overbroad definition of terrorism that could cover tactics used by some protest groups as a predicate for criminal wiretapping and other surveillance under Title III (Sections 120, 121)

These are all cut n paste jobs off http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/PA2ACLUbrkdn.html#Sec411
Very bias, but shows the POSSIBILITIES of the act. It's OTT in many places, but worth a read.

And stopping cars to search for dope is the biggest waste of police time in the entire world.

 

[Hapless]

And stopping cars to search for dope is the biggest waste of police time in the entire world.

:dozey: o...............k..............

 

[Absinthe]

:dozey: o...............k..............

What's the matter?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

And stopping cars to search for dope is the biggest waste of police time in the entire world.

Maybe in your country -- but from experience with my own, I can say its nessecary.

What's the matter?

What, you did'nt think that point was random aswell?

burner makes a very good point their.

No, he does'nt. He stated, "can" be used. However, "can", or "if" are not issues. There "is" an "is", and what is that those laws are attacking everything and everyone.

I have'nt been infiltrated -- nethire has a Liberal friend of mine named Matt. Why is this also?

Here, I'll tell you why: Because the people who upkeep these laws are also keeping the government in check, so as they dont do this to other people.

 

[burner69]

Maybe in your country -- but from experience with my own, I can say its nessecary.

Oh there's plenty of dope in Britain, I just don't see the necessity to arrest people because they have in their possession a naturally growing plant that is less dangerous than alcohol, does not fuel crime, and while intoxicated under it does not make them violent and aggressive.

And with, it is estimated, terrorism (the whole reason behind this patriot act 2) gets 60-70% of it's income from drugs, it seems odd that the government dosen't just sell it like they used to, and take that money away and make some for themselves - free up those jails, and let people who want to smoke something, smoke it. :thumbs:

 

[burner69]

What, you did'nt think that point was random aswell?

Sorry, to clarify, it was in response to the ex-cop guy's post.

 

[burner69]

The idea that a government arms its self with a lot of possibilities, however unlikely they are to happen, just worries me. Especially as the US government is notorious for doing certain things to get what they want.

 

[Raziaar]

Oh there's plenty of dope in Britain, I just don't see the necessity to arrest people because they have in their possession a naturally growing plant that is less dangerous than alcohol, does not fuel crime, and while intoxicated under it does not make them violent and aggressive.

And with, it is estimated, terrorism (the whole reason behind this patriot act 2) gets 60-70% of it's income from drugs, it seems odd that the government dosen't just sell it like they used to, and take that money away and make some for themselves - free up those jails, and let people who want to smoke something, smoke it. :thumbs:

That would be your opinion, not a fact, wouldn't it? Regarding the affects of marijuana. It affects people differently, and has a tendency to bring out hidden behaviors in people, such as violence and aggressiveness. I know this, because I used to be friends with potheads, and they got violent sometimes when they smoked, unprovoked, when normally they are quite passive when not smoking. Besides, there are some scientific studies out there on this ,but I don't have time to dig them up(I will later). Going to see National Treasure in a few minutes.

Oh, and besides, marijuana ruins lives. Heh. No benefit can come from smoking pot unless it is truely for medical reasons, and all the potheads I know are slowly slinking down in society and becoming scum, turning to harder drugs. They never want to do shit, and will end up being bums doing desperate things for cash to buy what they need. Legalizing it will not eliminate this 'lowlife' aspect that is associated with drugs. It's addictive, and people will still blow all their money on it, and try to do things such as steal or murder for the cash to buy it from legal sources.

I've not seen one pothead continue with his habits and achieve his dreams in life. Not one. People who may have already achieved their dreams, and turn to pot... tend to fall heavily from their status.

 

[CptStern]

That would be your opinion, not a fact, wouldn't it? Regarding the affects of marijuana. It affects people differently, and has a tendency to bring out hidden behaviors in people, such as violence and aggressiveness. I know this, because I used to be friends with potheads, and they got violent sometimes when they smoked, unprovoked, when normally they are quite passive when not smoking. Besides, there are some scientific studies out there on this ,but I don't have time to dig them up(I will later). Going to see National Treasure in a few minutes.

Oh, and besides, marijuana ruins lives. Heh. No benefit can come from smoking pot unless it is truely for medical reasons, and all the potheads I know are slowly slinking down in society and becoming scum, turning to harder drugs. They never want to do shit, and will end up being bums doing desperate things for cash to buy what they need. Legalizing it will not eliminate this 'lowlife' aspect that is associated with drugs. It's addictive, and people will still blow all their money on it, and try to do things such as steal or murder for the cash to buy it from legal sources.

I've not seen one pothead continue with his habits and achieve his dreams in life. Not one. People who may have already achieved their dreams, and turn to pot... tend to fall heavily from their status.

:upstare: been smoking pot since before you were born, never been violent and never "fell from society"

btw every last one of my friends smokes ...and in our group we have a lawyer, several teachers, businessmen, scholars and artists ..every one of them holds a day job and some are very successful

 

[burner69]

That would be your opinion, not a fact, wouldn't it? Regarding the affects of marijuana. It affects people differently, and has a tendency to bring out hidden behaviors in people, such as violence and aggressiveness. I know this, because I used to be friends with potheads, and they got violent sometimes when they smoked, unprovoked, when normally they are quite passive when not smoking. Besides, there are some scientific studies out there on this ,but I don't have time to dig them up(I will later). Going to see National Treasure in a few minutes.

Oh, and besides, marijuana ruins lives. Heh. No benefit can come from smoking pot unless it is truely for medical reasons, and all the potheads I know are slowly slinking down in society and becoming scum, turning to harder drugs. They never want to do shit, and will end up being bums doing desperate things for cash to buy what they need. Legalizing it will not eliminate this 'lowlife' aspect that is associated with drugs. It's addictive, and people will still blow all their money on it, and try to do things such as steal or murder for the cash to buy it from legal sources.

I've not seen one pothead continue with his habits and achieve his dreams in life. Not one. People who may have already achieved their dreams, and turn to pot... tend to fall heavily from their status.

If I'm making an opinion I'll state it. I'm not.

Your friends must have been doing a lot more than pot to make them aggressive, every study I have read regarding behaviour under the influence of pot shows passiveness, and no wish to inflict harm on people.
And yes there are scientific studies on the ill effects of pot. Most show it is, if not used in large amounts over long periods of time, safe. One or two show it is beneficial to some people, and not so good for others.

The ones that show pot to be bad include:
Putting four monkeys in a glass container, leaving them in there for two weeks and giving them 10'000 the amount of cannabis smoke you'd find in your average reefer.
Injecting rats with 6000times the amount of thc found in a single bong hit.
Some more recent ones are more convincing, but these are the studies the current laws are based around.

Then no benefit can come from coffee, beer, fags, tea whatever. It's a drug. You use it if you want to, when you want to - if you're wise you'll do it no more than a few times a week - some misuse, and can slide down that slippery rope. More people die of alcohol related deaths.

Legalisation in Holland reduced the number of users considerably -they have a lower user rate % wise than the US or UK. By controlling its distribution, you control the numbers.

Pot is cheaper than beer, quite considerably. If what you say is true, alcohol, which is more adictive than pot, would have people murdering people quite a bit for cash.
Murdering for pot money? Iv never heard so much crap in my life.

Many underachievers turn to weed, and some abuse it, to help them get over rough times. I know a good many of dope smokers who hardly have great jobs, but I kno an equal number of non smokers in similar circumstances.

The law causes more harm on these people, like say if I was in the US and caught with a few reefers I believe I'd get a criminal record, and therefore greatly reduce my chance at getting a job. Why exactly, is that fair? If it's gonna make me this big underachiever they can fire me then, but to let the government tell my potential employee im a criminal to prevent me getting a job - crap.

 

[£50 Scent]

Surely, individuals cannot be defined by a demographic. I have known cannabis users who have become homeless. I have also known cannabis users who attained first-class honours degrees and in-fact smoked before their final exams. I am not talking mickey-mouse degrees either, anything you can imagine including Law, Computer Science etc..

People will fulfill their own ambitions - if you want nothing more than to smoke skunk while watching daytime tele then that is what will happen.

However if you have high ambitions then you may work hard-as all-day and be stressed to breaking point - you may wish to smoke because the idea of the same again tomorrow stresses you out even more - just switching-off is what you need to continue your high-stress lifestyle.

Life is what you as an individual choose to make of your circumstances irrespective of excternal influence. Personally, I would say that 90% of people that end-up as 'wasters' or however you wish to describe them would do so even if they had never heard of cannabis.

 

[burner69]

Surely, individuals cannot be defined by a demographic. I have known cannabis users who have become homeless. I have also known cannabis users who attained first-class honours degrees and in-fact smoked before their final exams. I am not talking mickey-mouse degrees either, anything you can imagine including Law, Computer Science etc..

People will fulfill their own ambitions - if you want nothing more than to smoke skunk while watching daytime tele then that is what will happen.

However if you have high ambitions then you may work hard-as all-day and be stressed to breaking point - you may wish to smoke because the idea of the same again tomorrow stresses you out even more - just switching-off is what you need to continue your high-stress lifestyle.

Life is what you as an individual choose to make of your circumstances irrespective of excternal influence. Personally, I would say that 90% of people that end-up as 'wasters' or however you wish to describe them would do so even if they had never heard of cannabis.

Agreed *claps* - great first post! Mine was rubbish

 

[£50 Scent]

burner69 you seem to have your head screwed on, thanks (ok, enough mutual dick-pulling). I have smoked a fair old amount for basically a decade . The reason I do is stress and displeasure with the world.

I am sorry if this makes me seem like a wnacker but, a lot of people are stupid - they make little effort and application and have no interest in learning (in any sense of the word). Even when I am stoned as, I can still out-think a lot of people - this is not me being up myself, its just the way things are. This is part of why I smoke, personally day-to-day life ("the grind") bores me - it does worse than that, it makes me depressed. What is worse than seeing people doing less work for more money, especially when you know these people are no more intelligent then you are.

Due to only finishing Uni last year I am in loads of debt (~25k), I cannot get a job using my degree because I don't have enough experience, I do not have experience because I cannot get a job!! So I am currenly working 6 days a week for minimum wage to cover loan repayments and put food in my stomach. I live with my mum at 24. The only way I can to continue this life of monotony is to numb the pain with a bift or two.

Imagine George Best at his peak - the man could be regarded as God's gift to football. So why did he drink? Because, compared to him other players were not great - he was bored, it was boring. So, he drank and he was still better - boring, boring, boring. I am not surprised by what happened to him in the slightest. Now imagine if he was stuck play for a non-league team - the frustration, boredom, depression etc. - unbearable. I think this is the situation that many people are in (not in terms of football, but in terms of their career and life).

Now, I am not for one minute comparing myself (and others) in anyway to the much acclaimed football genius. But, I place the blame for such with the worlds of advertising, celebrity and commerce. This is because since many of us were young we have have things forced down our throats because of these influences. We have been taught that our lives are pointless unless we have the best of the best and much of the stuff that is presented to us in this way is in no way a viable option for 95% of people. This means that if you are intelligent and you are not successful (even though you try your best) then you are a failure, like it or not.

I was taught that I should be happy in my situation whatever it may be and to make the best of it. If I believed this then I would have no ambition to achieve - be a 'waster'. It is only because people are bloody minded and refuse to accept the way things are that people are able to improve their situation and quality of life. For some people this can take a lifetime due to circumstance (hopefully not me!).

Personally I have always been highly strung and if I didn't smoke then I think I would have died from heart-attacks already.


RIGHT --> I have gone off on one!!

To summarise, the point is: It is not the drugs that ruin peoples lives; it is society and its prejudices. Drugs may act as a catalyst but 'drug problems' are simply a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

I hope this all links up and makes sense (for the record I have not had a smoke today).

 

[K e r b e r o s]

well firstly kerbos when i said good point to him i meant on the pot issue.... and secondly just b/c YOU personally do not know anyone, does not mean it hasn't and will not happen.

Where has it happened, and where has it not happened?

You cant forclose a future, when the now has'nt had a single scenario.

 

[Raziaar]

:upstare: been smoking pot since before you were born, never been violent and never "fell from society"

btw every last one of my friends smokes ...and in our group we have a lawyer, several teachers, businessmen, scholars and artists ..every one of them holds a day job and some are very successful

I never knew you were so old stern :E In your forties? I should have guessed... all yer friends smoke cause yer old hippies! Heh heh.

Flowa powa brotha!

Just teasing.

 

[Hapless]

Sorry, to clarify, it was in response to the ex-cop guy's post.

FIrst off, I'm not an "ex-cop guy," I'm still a full-time cop. Second, when I talk about dope, I'm referring to crack, mostly. I'm not all that worried about weed unless it's a significant amount.
A bigger waste of police time is responding to all the burglaries, armed robberies, and such committed by crackheads looking for some quick cash for a rock.

 

[burner69]

FIrst off, I'm not an "ex-cop guy," I'm still a full-time cop. Second, when I talk about dope, I'm referring to crack, mostly. I'm not all that worried about weed unless it's a significant amount.
A bigger waste of police time is responding to all the burglaries, armed robberies, and such committed by crackheads looking for some quick cash for a rock.

Sorry, I didn't mean the ex-cop thing in any downgrading way, I've got a lot of respect for the police - and had I been a little more thoughtful I would have read back on your post, got your name and realised u are still a cop. Hope u accept my apology.

 

[burner69]

50 scent, sounds like you and me think the same on certain areas. I'm at uni now, first year, having fun - we'll see how long that lasts.

I really despise some elements of the media today - the crap they stuff down our faces on ad breaks: "You need this because your a total loser if you don't have it" "Women love to f**k men who shave with ultra-shave" It's impossible to avoid, because even if you don't buy the products you get people who do, and also buy into the marketting they've been hearing and are like "Wow, that t-shirts crap, it dosen't even have some dudes name stamped across it." So you feel like crap, and go out and get this untra mint t-shirt - that's JUST a t-shirt.
Worse tho, is what you mention about sucess and faliure. It's widespread; did you know that its only in western society you get anorexia. Which just so happens to be the society that fills ur screens with fit healthy young men and women advertising deodrant, tampax, whatever. Art should imitate life (not that advertisings an art), not the otherway round.

Before I came to uni I took a gap year working at the Alton Towers Hotel, as a porter. The best job I think I'll ever have. £200 a week + £8-10 a day tips. Very little work... but... it was still work. I was still slaving away for a company making shed loads of cash, and I was on less than a fiver an hour. I didn't mind working there, but I didn't ENJOY it. Like come in happy and laughing and all day be grinning thinking "Wow what a great day"

So when I came to uni I decided that once I finish, f**k the degree, I won't use it. I'm gunna work at the Hotel for 6months, get a few grand, take a plane to India, get a job as an Eng teacher (they're desperate for them), stay there, see the country for a month or two, then move on to Nepal, Austrailia, Indonesia, Madagascar. See the world. Escape the rat-race so to speak. And yes, I was very high when I came up with this plan. But I've researched it, it's doable.
Also, if you work out there for a while (in many poorer countries the only qualification needed is to be able to speak fluant Eng) you'll have teaching experience - and if you're from the UK, stay out there for 8 years, earning under £16'000 (I think), and teh government wipes your debts. Not that I'd encourage you to do that at all

 

[CptStern]

I never knew you were so old stern :E In your forties? I should have guessed... all yer friends smoke cause yer old hippies! Heh heh.

Flowa powa brotha!

Just teasing.

ummmm ..no ...I'm not in my 40's ..take a decade off ..and no my friends are not hippies ..we were heavy metal heads :E

actually I found the more money you have no more likely you are to do hardcore drugs like cocaine ...it's a rich mans drug ..crack is for the po' which is probably why cops go after crack heads and rarely touch the investment bankers. lawyers, stock brokers and other professionals that are the biggest users of coke ..see the cops wont touch them cuz coke is a high profit drug and is usually controlled by organized crime

 

[£50 Scent]

Not a bad plan at all burner. I like the idea of not even using the degree or rather not planning to use it. Some are lucky, some are not and it takes a while to get a relevent job even if you are lucky. To my experience the more qualifications you have - the less employable you are. Experience is where its at.

The most enjoyable job I had was working in a DIY store when I was at college. Again, this wasn't actually enjoyable but like you say, relatively easy although hard work at times for simalar cash (w/o tips).

I would think about going abroad and would consider it if the oppertunity arose but, I am picky. The UK is actually a quite good place to live - not much disease, its clean(ish), healthcare, not much poisonous stuff.

Are you or so you speak Indian? I am aware of how useful english is as a skill elsewhere in the world - are you expected to learn the language of the place you may go to?

Even that seems to be drying up these days though - my dad's bird is italian, she has a doctorate and speaks loads of languages including Italian, English, French, Norwegian etc. she is not stupid but all that has not done much for her.

I don't know how they do it but whatever is done here seems to be doubled or trebled by forigners.

Personally I would recommend that NOBODY goes to Uni as most people come out in a severely handicapped position compared to if they had not have gone. Also, with the current trend of as many people going as possible it may end up that a having a degree is like having maths and english at GCSE. All Uni does for you really is prove that you have a certain level of intelligence (maybe) - an expensive little test.

You say you are in your first year so I expect that you spend your time 90% enjoying yourself and 10% work. I say this as my first year did not do anything toward my degree except allow me onto the second year. I hope you are mashing it up anyway. In my experience the second year is a tough balance or it was for me (I lived in halls with first years again in my second year ) and the final year :rolling: sooooo, sooooo much work, don't worry about it but prepare yourself mentally.

You are right about the advertising and that - I don't know if you like that sort of thing but a lot of "kanYe wEst - College Dropout" is very relevent to the lives of modern day young people - advertising, pressure, degrees, jobs, women etc.

 

[Hapless]

ummmm ..no ...I'm not in my 40's ..take a decade off ..and no my friends are not hippies ..we were heavy metal heads :E

actually I found the more money you have no more likely you are to do hardcore drugs like cocaine ...it's a rich mans drug ..crack is for the po' which is probably why cops go after crack heads and rarely touch the investment bankers. lawyers, stock brokers and other professionals that are the biggest users of coke ..see the cops wont touch them cuz coke is a high profit drug and is usually controlled by organized crime

I sincerely hope you are joking. Crack is much higher profit than powder. Do you think crack just comes that way? Hell no, they have to take cocaine and cook it. Those po' folks you were referring to, I mean. I don't know how it is in other cities, but we've done raids in affluent neighborhoods. It's just harder to do, because unlike your run of the mill crackhouse in the inner city, the affluent usually only deal with a select crowd. I suppose if you subscribe to the belief that we can now just go busting in to anyone's house without any probabale cause, then that wouldn't be a problem, but the reality is we have to have probable cause, and that usually means sending in an informant to buy for us.
I just love how people who aren't police officers know our every motivation and purpose. "The only reason cops do [insert heinous affront to society here] is because those people are poor/black/inbred/white/rich." And when you say, "I've found...." does that mean you've conducted a scientific study? Do the results of that study apply only to Canada or to the world as a whole? Or are you just talking out of your butt based on some left-wing article as usual? :E

 

[£50 Scent]

I just love how people who aren't police officers know our every motivation and purpose. "The only reason cops do [insert heinous afront to society here] is because those people are poor/black/inbred/white/rich."

No, it is because [insert heinous afront to society here] happens to be the easiest way of gaining a successful result. To be fair it is the individuals inquestion who make it easy for the cops though.

 

[Hapless]

No, it is because [insert heinous afront to society here] happens to be the easiest way of gaining a successful result. To be fair it is the individuals inquestion who make it easy for the cops though.

Huh? Could you clarify this? It's a bit early in the morning for me..... :rolling:

 

[CptStern]

of course it's more profitable ..you make more with less ..but that's not the point ...money for investigation is the biggest hurdle ...bust some crackhouse and you're sure to be seen as if your doing something concrete ..but you're only really dealing with users ..not suppliers. The biker gangs, organised crime etc ..they're the suppliers and they cost a lot in terms of man hours and resources.

it's not a "lefty" bias but hard reality

 

[Hapless]

of course it's more profitable ..you make more with less ..but that's not the point ...money for investigation is the biggest hurdle ...bust some crackhouse and you're sure to be seen as if your doing something concrete ..but you're only really dealing with users ..not suppliers. The biker gangs, organised crime etc ..they're the suppliers and they cost a lot in terms of man hours and resources.

it's not a "lefty" bias but hard reality

How long have you been a cop? The fact is, the Federal Government works the biker gangs and organized crime, sometimes in task forces with local and state agencies, while local police deal with local dealers and users. Users can sometimes be turned into informants, and dealers can also sometimes be turned into informants on the next bigger fish. That's how the game is played. It's just easier to pick off the $20 rock user because there a re more of them running around, stealing everybody's stuff.

 

[£50 Scent]

Huh? Could you clarify this? It's a bit early in the morning for me..... :rolling:

It is not because peeps are rich/poor/black/white or whatever it is because they are stupid enough to stand on the street punting rocks and giving themselves away by having no teeth, being grubby and robbing people and stuff.

If these people operated the same way as the lawyers etc. that do coke then they would not seem like easy targets. Equally if lawyers started punting coke on the streets then you would probably be blamed for picking on those who have most to loose or can afford it.

The point is; given the choice of an easy obvious bust (even if it is v. v. minor) or one that will take much more time and work, which one will be chosen - the easy one. Who likes to make their life more difficult than it needs to be?

 

[Hapless]

It is not because peeps are rich/poor/black/white or whatever it is because they are stupid enough to stand on the street punting rocks and giving themselves away by having no teeth, being grubby and robbing people and stuff.

If these people operated the same way as the lawyers etc. that do coke then they would not seem like easy targets. Equally if lawyers started punting coke on the streets then you would probably be blamed for picking on those who have most to loose or can afford it.

The point is; given the choice of an easy obvious bust (even if it is v. v. minor) or one that will take much more time and work, which one will be chosen - the easy one. Who likes to make their life more difficult than it needs to be?

LOL, punting rocks....I love British slang.

 

[CptStern]

How long have you been a cop?

welll I seem to know a lot more than most cops ...how is it that I know exactly where crack is sold yet the cops dont?

quick example ...a friend and I were driving along smoking a joint...we took the wrong road and ended up on a very very rich neighbourhood ($12 million+ homes) we turned into a driveway to turn around ..the driveway had a security camera and gate ..not 2 minutes after pulling out we were stopped by cops who loooked at us and asked what we're doing there ..I said we were lost ..then I asked him why we were pulled over ..he mumbled something about a car fitting our description was stolen in the area ...bullshit ...no one in that area owns a dodge neon. We had been in a bar before that ..I reeked of booze smelled of pot, yet the cops werent too interested in that ..they took down our info and said that a cop would be calling us in a few days to ask us if we had seen anything that day ...never got a call ...why's that? because they werent looking for a stolen car, they were taking down our info in case there was a break in in that neighbourhood ..funny how the cops respond so fast in rich areas ...lends to the notion that police are more concerned with protecting the rich than upholding the law

another example ...throw a brick through a windo of a house and the cops may talk the house owner into not pressing charges ..yet try throwing a brick through the window of a mcdonalds ..lets see how fast you're charged with vandalism

 

[Hapless]

welll I seem to know a lot more than most cops ...how is it that I know exactly where crack is sold yet the cops dont?

quick example ...a friend and I were driving along smoking a joint...we took the wrong road and ended up on a very very rich neighbourhood ($12 million+ homes) we turned into a driveway to turn around ..the driveway had a security camera and gate ..not 2 minutes after pulling out we were stopped by cops who loooked at us and asked what we're doing there ..I said we were lost ..then I asked him why we were pulled over ..he mumbled something about a car fitting our description was stolen in the area ...bullshit ...no one in that area owns a dodge neon. We had been in a bar before that ..I reeked of booze smelled of pot, yet the cops werent too interested in that ..they took down our info and said that a cop would be calling us in a few days to ask us if we had seen anything that day ...never got a call ...why's that? because they werent looking for a stolen car, they were taking down our info in case there was a break in in that neighbourhood ..funny how the cops respond so fast in rich areas ...lends to the notion that police are more concerned with protecting the rich than upholding the law

Yes, your one experience proves your point. So first, you criticize the police for spending too much time in poor neighborhoods, then you criticize for responding to quickly in rich neighborhoods. You have no idea what you're talking about. Response time is based on a number of factors, including number of calls for service holding, the priority of calls for service being held, number of units clear, etc. Let's say I'm tied up on a previous burglary more than likely committed by some crackhead, and most of the rest of the shift is likewise tied up on stuff. Let's say one unit is clear and available. The 45th domestic problem of a couple's 2 week marriage breaks out, and he beats her to the point of being near death this time. Everybody then screams, "Oh my God, where were the police??!! This is a travesty. If this had occurred in a rich neighborhood/if she was white/if she wasn't married to a black guy the police would have been there in an instant!!!" Then they find out one unit was clear. "OMFG, there was an officer available but he didn't respond!!!!! DERELICTION OF DUTY!!!!! FIRE HIM!!!!!!" It doesn't matter that most departments won't send one officer to a hot call like that, for safety reasons. It doesn't matter that besides the burglary I'm tied up on, two officers are tied up on a "9-year old child out of control" call (this seems to be the age, for some reason), another officer is busy handling a car accident, two other officers are handling another domestic, and three officers are tied up on an armed robbery. THen there's another officer tied up on a, "I want my neighbor arrested because his mower threw grass on my driveway" call. But it's OUR fault.

And your example happened in CANADA!!??? OMFG, in the REAL land of the free??!?? I thought police harassment only occurred in the U.S.

 

[Hapless]

another example ...throw a brick through a windo of a house and the cops may talk the house owner into not pressing charges ..yet try throwing a brick through the window of a mcdonalds ..lets see how fast you're charged with vandalism

You speaking from experience here? LOL. Most business's policy is to pursue prosecution. A window in a private citizen's house may be below their deductible, whereas a window in a business may be extremely expensive, therefore their insurance company will require them to make a report and pursue prosecution. Most private citizens don't want the hassle of going to court, etc., and often times don't have the heart to press charges against somebody, especially if they are a kid. If I know the kid is a turd, I'll try to talk the people INTO making a complaint, because the kid needs to go down. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[firemachine69]

Meh, don't worry my American counterparts.

I thought what they did in the torture camps was what they had coming. They obviously didn't get in there BY FOLLOWING THE RULES WHICH HAD BEEN CLEARLY LAID OUT.

Yes, the firearms... Don't get me started... What a load of BS...

"Stick'em up, this is a robbery!"

"Sir, are you carrying a valid PAL and license for that rifle?"

 

[burner69]

Throughout history some laws have been made to target minorities, and make scapegoats for societies troubles.

Immigrants in Britain is a great example now, ok, so there's no laws that exactly target them now, but pick up a paper and half of Britains problems are laid on them.

But take America in the early 1900s - when Mexicans and Blacks were the only ones smoking dope, and everyone hated them and their 'weird ways'. Laws were passed and pot was labelled the most harmful drug in the world, more so than heroin, and a good many Blacks and Mexicans were taken away from the nice white folk and sent to prison. Look at prison stats in the US now; 70% of them in there are there for weed 'crimes', and I believe a good many are black.

Now I'm not saying I know all about your job, I don't, I know a few things which I think is relevant. Please don't tell me I 'don't know what I'm talking about'.

And cocaine is the most profitable drug around my area at the moment, and I was led to believe the same applied internationally. There's a lot of money in coke, and its big buisness.

Oh, and Scent; you don't need to speak any other language than English - the kids you teach have been taught up to a reasonable level, and you're just there to make them fluant. Perfect aye?

 

[Hapless]

I know a few things about first aid, does that qualify me to give an educated opinion on what physicians as a whole do? I know what E=MC2 means, so can I tell Stephen Hawking he's wrong? I know a few things about........and so on and so on. 70% for weed crimes, huh? Gonna have to see sources on that one.

 

[burner69]

Wasn't 70%, but still a joke...

"Prisoners sentenced for drug offenses constituted the largest group of Federal inmates (55%) in 2001, down from 60% in 1995. On September 30, 2001, the date of the latest available data in the Federal Justice Statistics Program, Federal prisons held 78,501 sentenced drug offenders, compared to 52,782 in 1995."

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2002 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, July 2003), p. 11"

Also, I find interesting...

"Today, non-violent drug offenders in the US serve more time in prison than rapists, murderers and thieves. The average sentence for a drug offence is 82.4 months; for sexual abuse, 66.9 months; for manslaughter, 26.8 months; and for theft, 24.6 months.5 A crook that would stab an elderly person for five bucks is likely to be back on the street before a pot smoker."

As a police officer, I'd genuinely be interested on your views on the matter. Do you think locking up drug users is the right thing to do?

 

[CptStern]

You speaking from experience here? LOL. Most business's policy is to pursue prosecution. A window in a private citizen's house may be below their deductible, whereas a window in a business may be extremely expensive, therefore their insurance company will require them to make a report and pursue prosecution. Most private citizens don't want the hassle of going to court, etc., and often times don't have the heart to press charges against somebody, especially if they are a kid. If I know the kid is a turd, I'll try to talk the people INTO making a complaint, because the kid needs to go down. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

yes, yes I do ...you know not all cops play by the book. That's why there's racial profiling, creative uses of telephone books and outright corruption.