Mixing Ragdoll and Death Animations?

[Dog--]

Ok, this is just an idea, but it shouldn't be that hard to do with todays technology (hit-zone targeting, I think they call it).

In most new games you shoot a guy the leg 5 times, and he becomes a ragdoll. wtf?

In most old games you shoot a guy in the head and he has a death animation. wtf?


So why not have both?

Think of Resident Evil 4's NPC targeting zone thing, mixed with death animations and ragdoll physics.

For example: You face say, a Metrocop in HL2. Shoot him in the head 2 times, he goes ragdoll. Shoot him in the stomach 2 times, and he has a death animation of him holding his stomach or something like that, then when the animation is over, he THEN goes ragdoll.


Why don't game companies do this?

I actually think I've seen it (can't remember of the top of my head) in some new games, but even then, not alot.


DOESN'T IT MAKE SENSE? THEY WANT REALISM FFS!

 

[Uriel]

I think L4D is coming somewhat close.

 

[Gunner]

Because when you get shot, you don't go "OHHH!" and put your hands over the bullet hole. You just fall like a bag of potatoes. Watch some videos of people getting shot and you'll see how it is. Realism = ragdoll.

 

[Uriel]

When I get shot I go "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP"
Then i fall like a bag of squash.

 

[Asus]

Because when you get shot, you don't go "OHHH!" and put your hands over the bullet hole. You just fall like a bag of potatoes. Watch some videos of people getting shot and you'll see how it is. Realism = ragdoll.

But ragdoll that I see in games does not take in to account how limbs really fall. I would think tendons and muscles which are attached to certain points on the bone would make your limbs fall different than say... a doll. And I wouldn't think most shots are going to make someone go completely limp right away either.

It's excessive and not realistic how bodies that were once moving like living people all of a sudden become dolls when they die. Explosions really show this too. Cartwheels in the air! I do like the fact that ragdolls are different every time but that doesnt' mean they are realistic.

I also like how L4D is doing their deaths. At least for the regular infected guys.

 

[Uriel]

Ask Iced Eagle about L4D. He's played it, he can tell you about the death animations.

 

[Majestic XII]

Something like Endorphin?

www.naturalmotion.com/endorphin.htm

GTA 4 is using this.

 

[bam23]

There's a few games where death animations are mixed with ragdoll.

The first one that comes to my mind is Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault.

 

[Vegeta897]

Something like Endorphin?

www.naturalmotion.com/endorphin.htm

GTA 4 is using this.

Oh **** yes. Will they be physical even while alive? Like if I bump into someone with a car he'll stumble back or even fall over, then get up, all physically simulated with behaviors?

 

[Gargantou]

You really need to check out Endorphin like Majestic XII said, it's a next-gen system that blends animations, physics and AI all into one.

Btw, Majestic XII, your game Shopper Rush rules.

And yes Vegeta that is correct, LucasArts showed a techdemo with Endorphin in their new Indiana Jones game, he was hit by a rock and almost fell of a bridge, he DYNAMICALLY with PHYSICS grabbed one of the ropes from the bridge and pulled himself up.

But I guess it depends somewhat on Rockstars too, how much they want to implement etc.

 

[Dog--]

Nice, endorphin is pretty sweet.

I got it a while ago, but I'm too stupid to know how to work it, so I deleted it.. (it was full version, too).

 

[Majestic XII]

Btw, Majestic XII, your game Shopper Rush rules.

Thanks! We only worked on it for five weeks, those weeks was well spent

 

[Gargantou]

Thanks! We only worked on it for five weeks, those weeks was well spent

You should make some sorta riot game with that engine, like all the people riot in the mall, and you gotta break windows etc and get as much with you as possible without getting killed/arrested.

 

[Jintor]

Zomg, I never downloaded that.

Will do when this assessment is over.

 

[Warbie]

This is a topic i've been banging on about on this forum for years now - ragdolls + death animations would be awesome.

Play Fear, HL2, Far Cry, Doom3 etc, shoot the bad guy and what happens? Sod all. It doesn't feel like you're shooting people in these games. Load of GE or PD and, despite the aging visuals, it actually looks and feels like you're shooting the bad guys. So, so much more satisfying and empowering, and all without ragdolls of any kind. Add these and it can only get better.

//edit

endorphin looks cool

 

[clarky003]

Definitely will be solved soon with endorphin, but yeah realistically people don't just become instantly limp like a rag doll when they've taken a bullet, even if it's to the head (all those zombie movies I've watched ).

 

[Laivasse]

In games I much prefer all-ragdoll deaths to all-animation, but I do hope that companies start to mix it up a little. Even Hitman: Blood Money had a littlke of this in that people normally go limp when you shoot them (even in the toe) except when you shoot them in the stomach - at which point lie go down onto the floor and start screaming and writhing. A shotgun blast will also send people stumbling backwards a little if it doesn't kill them.

But you can get good and bad ragdolls just like you can get good and bad death animations. HL2 had nice meaty ragdolls with good weight and not too many stupid poses, while those in Hitman are abysmal.

I've just checked one of those endorphin vids and it looks like the way forward. I'd love to see it in a great HL2-calibre shooter.

 

[Warbie]

HL2 had nice meaty ragdolls with good weight and not too many stupid poses, while those in Hitman are abysmal.

I think we were playing different games

Do you mean weighty as in when they're dead and you're shooting them? I'll admit that HL2 did that better than most games - a little rubbery, but pretty good. The issues I have are when you're shooting an enemy and you weapon feels no more powerful than a kid's pellet gun - no reaction, no flinch, nothing. HL2 is as guilty as most fps in this regard.

We've yet to see a fps that matches hit animations when it comes to convincingly showing something being shot.

 

[Rapstah]

L4D does it really good.

 

[Laivasse]

I mean weighty as in they don't fly stupid distances (unless they get blown up). The way they drop seems to match well with what you'd expect from a heavily armed/armoured troop.

HL2's enemies do flinch, just not much, and they do it in the same way no matter what they're being shot with. It would be a lot more satisfying even if they had a small set animation where they would stumble back a bit if hit with a high powered weapon.

Still, I think it's satisfying to be shooting at an Overwatch soldier with a pistol and see their head snap back with a non-fatal headshot, and then they try to quickly move away out of fire. It's just that there's so much more you could add to make it better.

What might be cool is a mix of the endorphin system with some rare death animations - like every 1 in 60 enemies will sit up while dying and try to keep on shooting you (Quake 2 style), or try to crawl away weaponless to safety. The only thing I worry about in mixing death animations with ragdolls is that devs tend to overuse the same animations, or place them badly. Whilst having ragdolls drop like a sack of spuds can be unsatisfying, I find that overused death animations just breaks my immersion completely.

 

[Warbie]

Something more dynamic would be nice, a blend of the two. How satisfying would it be to shoot someone who's running towards you with a shotgun and for the force to send them flying backwards, possibly out a window Or to spin someone on the spot with a shot to the shoulder. You could have fun with them - spin them round then shoot them in the ass!

Golden Eye was pretty basic, and I know I do go on about it, but it was so good in this regard. You could juggle enemies - each hit would stop their action and make them judder/stumble - allowing you to take out multiple targets at a time. A shot to the foot caused a hop, hit them in the hand and they'd drop their weapon and clutch it in pain. PD bettered this - a shot to the neck would result in someone holding the wound and slowly falling to the ground (I seem to remember them gurgling, but that could purely be my imagination - either way it was convincing).

It's only a matter of time till we get this stuff.

 

[L3adCannon]

FarCry had it, ragdoll and deathanimations mixed- looked very good.
Games that usually have only ragdoll implement it bad when it comes to deaths (BF2, HL2, etc).
But games that get the physics and all that right, realistic can look good (Red Orchestra, the most satisfying ragdoll I`ve seen yet). Same with GRAW, deaths look very cool with animations and ragdoll mixed.

 

[Majestic XII]

Definitely will be solved soon with endorphin, but yeah realistically people don't just become instantly limp like a rag doll when they've taken a bullet, even if it's to the head (all those zombie movies I've watched ).

Wrong! Example, watch the hollywood shootout that happened a couple of years ago when they blew their brains out.

 

[clarky003]

Eh, not always like that in every movie but they usually spaz out a bit first, and it's actually quite subtle so I'm not wrong.

 

[Majestic XII]

Big whoop, wanna fight about it?

 

[clarky003]

Big whoop, wanna fight about it?

It was just a point I was making .

So basically what sea said.

 

[Malfunction]

I'm surprised Killzone 2 wasn't mentioned in this thread yet. In the E3 trailer there is clearly some unique ragdoll/death/bullet reaction stuff going on.

 

[Loke]

I'm surprised Killzone 2 wasn't mentioned in this thread yet. In the E3 trailer there is clearly some unique ragdoll/death/bullet reaction stuff going on.

 

[clarky003]

Wow that's more like it.

 

[Malfunction]

Yeah, I think that looks really nice. Too bad it's for PS3 though. Here's hoping a PC port will come out! :cheers:

 

[theotherguy]

something that really bothers me about games is the ragdolls flying off when you shoot them.

In real life, the amount of force you receive from being blasted with a shotgun cannot exceed the amount of force the person shooting the gun recieves in recoil. So in other words, you might flinch back a bit, but you're not going to fly back like in most games, (especially HL2!). And even explosions don't have that much power. The size of explosion you see in HL2 (with the barrels) would at worst knock a person down from the force (If you were REALLY close), but wouldn't send them flying. To send someone flying you need a huge force, something akin to a car bomb or artillery shell, but DEFINATLEY not a grenade.

 

[Krynn72]

I get to use Endorphin next month in class \o/. I also got to play around with it today since I decided not to do any classwork in lab Its fun as hell to play with.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

This is a topic i've been banging on about on this forum for years now - ragdolls + death animations would be awesome.

Play Fear, HL2, Far Cry, Doom3 etc, shoot the bad guy and what happens? Sod all. It doesn't feel like you're shooting people in these games. Load of GE or PD and, despite the aging visuals, it actually looks and feels like you're shooting the bad guys. So, so much more satisfying and empowering, and all without ragdolls of any kind. Add these and it can only get better.

//edit

endorphin looks cool

Gotta love it, play any game using GOUL II and you'll see the same (this means Jedi Knight II: Jedi Academy (with cheats to dismember people) and SOFII / I as well

I was playing some good old Goldeneye yesterday and it was incredible as always.

 

[Tagaziel]

You really need to check out Endorphin like Majestic XII said, it's a next-gen system that blends animations, physics and AI all into one.

Btw, Majestic XII, your game Shopper Rush rules.

And yes Vegeta that is correct, LucasArts showed a techdemo with Endorphin in their new Indiana Jones game, he was hit by a rock and almost fell of a bridge, he DYNAMICALLY with PHYSICS grabbed one of the ropes from the bridge and pulled himself up.

But I guess it depends somewhat on Rockstars too, how much they want to implement etc.

Everytime you say "next gen" when talking about game related stuff, a kitten gets lit by a Zippo.

For ****'s sake, think of the kittens.

 

[Gargantou]

Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen Next-gen!

I Next-gen your Next-gen for Next-gen sake, what do you Next-gen of that, Mikael Grizzly?

 

[Tagaziel]

You sick bastard, you just killed forty seven kittens with a Zippo lighter.

You evil, evil man.

D:

 

[L3adCannon]

This is gonna be one sick ass shooter.

 

[Gargantou]

IS NOT! Killzone 1 was mediocre as hell!>_<
What the f00k is wrong with you people, you get a bit flashy graphics and suddenly you think that good graphics must automatically equal good gameplay? Morons, MORONS I TELLS YA!

 

[Danimal]

...And for people who automatically assume that sequels are the same as the original?

 

[Gargantou]

I never assumed it must be the same as the original, but I'd say the original can be used as a form of INDICATOR atleast.
My main gripe is that it seems half of these people who are praising Killzone 2 to hell haven't even 1. Played the original 2. Played Killzone 2 and 3. Are merely stating it because it has AWSOME GRAFFUX OMGZ!11