MOAR HDD Speed? SSD? 10,000rpm?

[kazsymonds]

Hi all.

I recently built my own PC for gaming, and I'm very happy with the performance it gives. However, the thing is a little slow to start up which didn't bother me initially, but I now want to do something about it.

I'm thinking the hard drive I bought is the weak link in the chain (it only gets 5.9 on the windows performance test, and it was the cheapest Sata one).

The PC;
Win 7 x64
i7 920 D0 @ 3.8ghz
Asus P6X58D-E (supports Sata 6gbs / has on board RAID controller)
6gb DDR3 Triple channel
Radeon HD5870
750w Corsair PSU

My question is, what is the best way to improve the situation? I have a few hundred quid to spend, but want a bit of bang for my buck. The way I see it, I have 3 options;

Option 1: SSD + Sata HDD
Basically, get a small SSD (40gb or so) to run the operating system, install all programs and store all files on the HDD I already have.

Option 2: Some kind of fast HDD?
Is 10,000rpm worth the extra money? Are the speeds in any way comparable to SSD? I have Sata 6gb/s, so maybe I could get a 10,000rpm HDD with Sata 6gb/s?

Option 3: RAID Array?
Whilst overclocking, I spent some time with the knowledgable folks at overclockers.net and they say that the RAID controller on my motherboard is pretty good. Perhaps 2 x 500gb 7,200rpm Sata drives will give good performance under RAID0?

Which of the above sounds most reasonable? I don't especially want to go over £200, but money isn't really a problem here (I won't be spending £4,000 on a PCI-E solid state drive, though!)

Anyone got any ideas which will give;
A. The most bang
B. The most bang for my buck

?

TIA

Kas

 

[Bakurei]

I'd say get a OCZ Vertex 2 or Vertex 3.

 

[Dinnesch]

I can't really give any advice on better hard drives/SSDs(other than not to judge speed on RPM rather than actual performance!), I don't invest too much on them, would rather just spend my money on more RAM.
Quoting myself(from a new build thread):
Windows 7 has this awesome sleep mode that uses like 5 watts on most PCs, and allows you to get back all your stuff in 2 seconds so you don't have to worry about startup times. With a lot of RAM you can just leave all your common programs open(if you don't mind having a crowded taskbar), combined with sleep mode and no paging file that should beat pretty much every SSD(in terms of time spent waiting for stuff to load) for a lot less.

 

[AtomicSpark]

I haven't jumped onto the SSD boat yet, but I can tell you that platter density is more important than RPM. Take a look at Samsung Spinpoint F4s. They beat Western Digital VelociRaptors in throughput (seek time may be faster for the VelociRapters) and they're only 7,200 RPM. I have a Samsung Spinpoint F4 (500GB model) and it is marvelous. Sure it doesn't beat modern SSDs, but the $60 price tag was pretty nice.

Also, RAID is silly. Especially on "fake-RAID" motherboards.

 

[kazsymonds]

I haven't jumped onto the SSD boat yet, but I can tell you that platter density is more important than RPM. Take a look at Samsung Spinpoint F4s. They beat Western Digital VelociRaptors in throughput (seek time may be faster for the VelociRapters) and they're only 7,200 RPM. I have a Samsung Spinpoint F4 (500GB model) and it is marvelous. Sure it doesn't beat modern SSDs, but the $60 price tag was pretty nice.

Also, RAID is silly. Especially on "fake-RAID" motherboards.

Ok, I'm not holding myself out as some kind of hard drive expert here, but as a general rule I'm sure 10,000rpm HDDs are usually quicker than 7,200rpm drives, right?

So what are the important stats to look at? Seek times? Because what you have linked me has the same seek time as what I already have.

What I want is something noticeably quicker.

 

[Vegeta897]

Buying a faster hard drive is not the best way to speed up boot time.

There are many things from a non-hardware perspective that go into boot time. Loading fonts for example. Find a guide on it or something.

 

[kazsymonds]

Buying a faster hard drive is not the best way to speed up boot time.

I have stopped all unnecessary start up services, if you have any other ideas on what I can do, do share.

 

[Dinnesch]

I'm repeating it, in which practical situation would you worry about boot time if Windows 7 has this excellent sleep mode that allows you to get your work back in 2 seconds(with like 5w power consumption on most PCs)
For load times of programs I would just go with more ram(if you have a $200 budget and are insane you get 16GB rather than a SSD) instead of a SSD, because Windows 7 just fills your unused RAM with programs after boot(superfetch they call it).
Really, without a paging file and enough RAM to keep all your common programs open you don't need a super fast hard disk.

 

[kazsymonds]

I'm repeating it, in which practical situation would you worry about boot time if Windows 7 has this excellent sleep mode that allows you to get your work back in 2 seconds(with like 5w power consumption on most PCs)
For load times of programs I would just go with more ram(if you have a $200 budget and are insane you get 16GB rather than a SSD) instead of a SSD, because Windows 7 just fills your unused RAM with programs after boot(superfetch they call it).
Really, without a paging file and enough RAM to keep all your common programs open you don't need a super fast hard disk.

I did read it the first time mate, and I'm not dismissing such an idea, I also have to fulfil my curiosity on RAID and SSDs within this thread.

I wasn't keen on the idea at first, since I'm out of the house a lot and wouldn't want it on all the time, but if it's only like 5w it will probably be no more than the sky box.
I also had reservations about fans etc being on (since the PC is in my room) but I just tried it and the PC stopped completely, like it was totally off. The only thing was that the light on the front flashed (well, blinked really slowly).
I was also wondering about any wear and tear on my PSU and motherboard, do you think that's an issue? I mean, I know it isn't like it's running full pelt encoding video or something, but it's still got a voltage running through it. I imagine it isn't a problem though.

So, how much ram would YOU use in my PC? I use it almost entirely for gaming (have a laptop for browsing etc) so steam / msn / firefox stay open.

I currently have 6gb in 3 x 2gb sticks. I think I can go to 24gb (they do 4gb sticks, right?), but that would probably be pretty costly and unnecessary?

Maybe I spend another £100 on 6gb more ram.

Also, does anyone have any experience with RAID? I'm not thinking of using it but I'm just trying to satisfy my curiosity on that side. If I decided on a new HDD I'd probably go the SSD route, but is RAID reliable? Fast? How fast? (I know the difference between RAID0 and RAID1 etc.

 

[xcellerate]

If I decided on a new HDD I'd probably go the SSD route, but is RAID reliable? Fast? How fast? (I know the difference between RAID0 and RAID1 etc.

It depends on the raid you want to run. Raid 0 will, on average, fail sooner than a single drive since if either drive fails the whole system goes down (look into Raid 5). Raid 1 will of course be more stable since you have 2 synced drives.

A single ssd will be faster than two raid 0 mechanical drives. In terms of speed, I have an ssd in my mac and from the time I press the power button to the time firefox is loaded is about 16 seconds. I've got an OCZ onyx in a win xp lenovo at work, and it'll boot in about 20 seconds. I got a vertex 2 on friday but haven't had a chance to use it yet.

 

[Tyguy]

I have an OCZ Vertex II 90GB and it gets a 7.7 from Windows. I'd definitely recommend getting a SSD instead of a HDD. Windows boots very quickly as does everything installed on the drive. I have 2TB of HDD space that I use for music and videos or whatever else doesn't need first priority.

 

[CyberPitz]

Was reading a thread about the Vertex II's and there are more and more failed drives cropping up. I'm still on the edge with SSD

 

[kazsymonds]

I have an OCZ Vertex II 90GB and it gets a 7.7 from Windows. I'd definitely recommend getting a SSD instead of a HDD. Windows boots very quickly as does everything installed on the drive. I have 2TB of HDD space that I use for music and videos or whatever else doesn't need first priority.

This is what I was looking for, some actual experience of one of the routes.

So what exactly is installed on the SSD? Windows + Games + Program files and then just use the 2nd HDD to store files that aren't system / program related?

I had imagined having a 40gb or so SSD, purely for Windows 7, and then have absolutely everything else on the secondary drive. Not sure if this would work, or how well.

For now I'm using the sleep function, which is very good actually although it wouldn't work at first because I didn't have SP1 installed (and it wouldn't tell me why it wouldn't work >.>).

I see they also do PCIE SSDs now, apparently they are ultra fast!

It was this type of thing that got me interested; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShWvn0U3wE

 

[Sedako]

If you're going to get an SSD, make sure you have a modern motherboard that supports TRIM. Mine does not, and it my Vertex 2 only gave me a slight boot time decrease over my HDD.

 

[xcellerate]

If you're going to get an SSD, make sure you have a modern motherboard that supports TRIM. Mine does not, and it my Vertex 2 only gave me a slight boot time decrease over my HDD.

I think you mean OS. TRIM only needs to be supported by the OS and the drive.

Which SSD did you purchase? Did you do a fresh install? Which OS are you running?

So what exactly is installed on the SSD? Windows + Games + Program files and then just use the 2nd HDD to store files that aren't system / program related?

I see they also do PCIE SSDs now, apparently they are ultra fast!

The PCIE cards are insanely fast, but from what I've seen a lot of people are still getting BSOD's with them.

If you have an ssd and a mechanical drive, make sure you stick your paging file on the mechanical drive.

 

[Sedako]

I think you mean OS. TRIM only needs to be supported by the OS and the drive.

Which SSD did you purchase? Did you do a fresh install? Which OS are you running?

What I mean by this is that it needs to be able to run in AHCI. My 750i cannot.

 

[Destructo-Bot]

AHCI must be supported in order to pass trim commands, so the motherboard is a factor. Also, the paging file is ideally suited to reside on an SSD according to Microsoft's data, it is mainly small random reads with occasional large writes.

So in short, yes the motherboard matters, and no, do not move the paging file off of the SSD unless you are desperate for space.

 

[unozero]

sinc I can't post a thread Ima ask in here.

I want to spend around $100 on a SSD for gaming mainly for steam I want to have least 6 games installed on it at once.Which one do you guys recommend for this.
Also just so I know.I can uinstall steam from C: and then just reinstall it to the new drive once I get it right? or does steam need to be on the same HDD as the OS?

 

[Krynn72]

Also just so I know.I can uinstall steam from C: and then just reinstall it to the new drive once I get it right? or does steam need to be on the same HDD as the OS?

You can indeed install it to another drive. But for 100 bucks, the best you're going to be able to do is a 40 gig SSD. Just get a 150 gig 10k rpm drive instead. SSD is completely necessary for games, and if you get a 40 gig one, you'll be tossing it in the trash in like 2 years..

 

[unozero]

mhm ok,so maybe a WD Raptor? or are there other Manufactures that make 10k drives?

I'll probably get this one then.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136296


or this one much better price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136825