Modelling Questions Thread

[Slaine]

I was just reading Ran's Galil Tutorial and I think its great for newbies like myself.

Anyway, it left me with some unanswered questions since its for people who have some knowledge of 3ds Max.

My question is: How important is it to weld all pieces to the body of the model? Some parts were just 'attached', and I wanna know how practical this is.

If any other beginners wanna ask questions here, please do. Thanks

 

[Stone]

It's vital to weld them together, it is a must....

I can't stress this enough

 

[HiroProtaganist]

yes it is very important for the UVW Unwrapping process. It is part of what is called a "clean mesh" and makes like much easier fo rthe skinner.

 

[Cunbelin]

Not only that but if you start using deformers you can have odd results if you aren't working in a closed mesh, (mostly for organic models)

 

[Slaine]

Yeah, simply moving pieces together and attaching them seemed kind of sloppy. Thanks for the clarification, guys.

 

[Idolon]

I have a question.
How do you guys get the proportions right when you model by free hand.
do you measure everything?
or don't ever model by free hand?

I have been thinking about starting modeling.
But I think I lack the patience necessary.

 

[mindless_moder]

it all depends on wht ur modeling u sually have to have blueprints or references if its a gun some profiles pics will do.
if its concept u either scale it after its done or go according to a sketch u have made.

 

[Radeon]

So, i didn't want to start my own thread so i keep going here since it says "Modelling Questions Thread" and i have a question.

What i want to know is if a model has to be in triangles or can i use quads when modeling for hl2?

 

[mindless_moder]

u can use any thing u want to model dont stick to triangles quads are better especially if its a character but ur primary objective is to keep it low on the polys.

 

[Stone]

Erm...would some like to put together a modelling FAQ or something, and or the basic priciples of modelling or something, and i'll sticky it on here

 

[Gmspitali]

Sorry to break it to you pros but, im a newbie to this all. My question is i want to start making my own mods with 3dsmax and I want to know how will i be able to implement my models in the new HL2 game and will it be possible?Is it easy once youve made the mod? I want to design my pimpin new E class.

Thanks in advance

 

[Stone]

yes it will definatly be possible, and we really have no way of telling how hard it'll be to implement at the moment, as we have no idea of how things will be

 

[Gmspitali]

how bout with other games? has it been hard?

 

[mindless_moder]

pls hold on im writing an faq it will be open tomorrow.

 

[Chimera]

Originally posted by mindless_moder
u can use any thing u want to model dont stick to triangles quads are better especially if its a character but ur primary objective is to keep it low on the polys.

Won't it have to be broken down into triangles before it is inserted into the game? Most engines work that way.

 

[Cunbelin]

You are half right Chimera, you don't have to break it down as HL2 will do that for you, but the absolute best results come from doing the triangles yourself because you will have direct control, otherwise there can be some oddities if you leave trianglation up to the game or a command in a 3D program. But trianglulation is the last step in the model, when you are working on LOD models and cleanup. So don't worry too much.

 

[Cunbelin]

Originally posted by Idolon
I have a question.
How do you guys get the proportions right when you model by free hand.
do you measure everything?
or don't ever model by free hand?

I have been thinking about starting modeling.
But I think I lack the patience necessary.

Hmm well you can actually very easily put a reference image on the background of most modelers so that you can base your model upon it.

 

[Radeon]

Hmmf, that sux. A models poly will increase drasticly when done with triangles.. Why don't games just use quads?

 

[Chimera]

Unless I'm mistaken, it is because quads can very easily become "not flat" And that leads to odditites in shading. If it is borken down into triangles you are assured that it will be shaded the same way every time.

Anyone back me up?

 

[Grey]

Yeah I think there's a number of reasons Chimera. Another would be any convex polygon can be triangulated. Speed would be another - especially when you start using and tristrips etc.

It really doesn't matter though. Model with what ever sort of face you'd like, but for counting purposes triangulate the model.

 

[Chimera]

Lets see if I can explain.


Take an ordinary box:

Here it is in quads. However broken into triangles it would look like this:

Not much change right?

Lets say we take a corner and move it around a little:

If were to turn that particular face into triangles we might get:

OR

So how will the engine choose to shade that face? By breaking it down yourself you would get more consistant results.


[edit]
I agree with the speed aspect too. With all the advanced stuff in the HL2 engine I would think any overhead you could cut out would be welcome.

 

[Grey]

Also note Directx only does triangles - lists, strips and fans. Well it does lines and points too, but that really doesn't matter for the sake of this discussion.

 

[mindless_moder]

this is the problem back in the good ole days of hl1 we actually texture shaded our models

 

[Stone]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a QUAD just TWO TRIANGLES PUT TOGETHER!!!!!!

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Stone
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a QUAD just TWO TRIANGLES PUT TOGETHER!!!!!!

Yeah, but its shorter to say
The easiest description of models is VERY easy: whatever you do, its a single polygon (assuming its a single model). A car? A polygon. A house? A polygon. My ass? A big flat polygon at the moment.

STONES EDIT: Stone goes to edit thread, and then wonders why his Ass (a cross between a donkey and a mule) has got anything to do with it

 

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Stone
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a QUAD just TWO TRIANGLES PUT TOGETHER!!!!!!

Yes, but you could divide that quad two different ways. Thus shading error.


Pardon my post if you were just being funny

 

[HiroProtaganist]

so if you made it in quads and edited the triangulaiton of the faces your shading issues wil be solved correct?

 

[Grey]

Yeah but most the time you won't have to do that, especially with the density of HL2-level models.

 

[Stone]

I'l stick to my Tri's thanks, I'm not about to change my method of modelling, just yet....

 

[mindless_moder]

oh god look at u people bickering before the problem even arises.

 

[Chimera]

I don't think the problem would just be in HL2. Most engines work with /\'s I think.

 

[Cunbelin]

heh actually quads and polygons are a misnomer, you always break things up into triangles when rendering. There is no extra information saved by using quads, it is just a question of preprocessing it into triangles and getting it to work the way you want, AND saving time on breaking up the quad later, or letting an alrogrithm that adds to the overhead and may not get things right do it.