More demands from IslaM - Pat Condell

[Ravioli]

EDIT: lol typo in title

new vid

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHh0NdR5Jh0[/YOUTUBE]


why wont we elect someone like this as a leader instead of stupid ass politicians? seriously...

 

[Solaris]

****ing Islan, ignorant bastards.


See what I did there.

 

[The Monkey]

I agree with everything I've heard from this guy so far. It's time people don't have to be accused of racism just because you're criticizing Islam. You're a swede, Ravioli, you know this just as much as I how it's like here. People can mock and laugh at Christianity as much as they want (which is of course good), but as soon as you start mentioning Islam in negative terms all hell breaks loose. The funny thing is that it's usually the feminists, who should hate Islam more than anybody, who without a doubt jump into Islam's defence in every situation.

 

[No Limit]

I agree with everything I've heard from this guy so far. It's time people don't have to be accused of racism just because you're criticizing Islam. You're a swede, Ravioli, you know this just as much as I how it's like here. People can mock and laugh at Christianity as much as they want (which is of course good), but as soon as you start mentioning Islam in negative terms all hell breaks loose. The funny thing is that it's usually the feminists, who should hate Islam more than anybody, who without a doubt jump into Islam's defence in every situation.

The problem is that when most people have a problem with Islam they apply the negatives to every single muslim out there. Islam like any other religion has a minority of extremists, but it seems like only in the case of Islam people see all participants in that religion as extremists. That's why I think people get so defensive Islam and not the other religions.

 

[repiV]

The problem is that when most people have a problem with Islam they apply the negatives to every single muslim out there. Islam like any other religion has a minority of extremists, but it seems like only in the case of Islam people see all participants in that religion as extremists. That's why I think people get so defensive Islam and not the other religions.

I think it's just another example of the double standards applied - without meaning to sound trite - by "liberals".
Racism only happens against blacks, gender discrimination only happens to women, only minorities can be discriminated against. Institutionally racist policies such as affirmative action are the brainchild of left-wing politics, exactly as the defense of Islam over Christianity, a doctrine which contradicts every principle liberals are supposed to hold dear.
Which is why I don't give modern liberalism, or whatever the hell you want to call it, one ounce of credibility - it's a mindset driven by envy and self-loathing, with little logic applied to anything and mass hysteria over bullshit the name of the game. What they stand for changes depending on who is in the minority at the time. It's no better than Bush-style cronyism.

 

[No Limit]

I think it's just another example of the double standards applied - without meaning to sound trite - by "liberals".
Racism only happens against blacks, gender discrimination only happens to women, only minorities can be discriminated against. Institutionally racist policies such as affirmative action are the brainchild of left-wing politics, exactly as the defense of Islam over Christianity, a doctrine which contradicts every principle liberals are supposed to hold dear.
Which is why I don't give modern liberalism, or whatever the hell you want to call it, one ounce of credibility - it's a mindset driven by envy and self-loathing, with little logic applied to anything and mass hysteria over bullshit the name of the game. What they stand for changes depending on who is in the minority at the time. It's no better than Bush-style cronyism.

Thanks for the pep talk about how hypocritical liberals are but you didn't address what I said. When people look at christians they pretty much see themselves without the crazy theories, when they see a muslim they see a terrorist. Part of being a liberal is making sure people aren't persecuted for who they are in our society. Christians are not being persecuted in our society, muslims are.

 

[The Monkey]

The problem is that when most people have a problem with Islam they apply the negatives to every single muslim out there. Islam like any other religion has a minority of extremists, but it seems like only in the case of Islam people see all participants in that religion as extremists. That's why I think people get so defensive Islam and not the other religions.

A moderate muslim, just like a moderate christian, is only a person that's less religious. The only good traits of any religion are those brought on by secularism.

 

[repiV]

Thanks for the pep talk about how hypocritical liberals are but you didn't address what I said. When people look at christians they pretty much see themselves without the crazy theories, when they see a muslim they see a terrorist. Part of being a liberal is making sure people aren't persecuted for who they are in our society. Christians are not being persecuted in our society, muslims are.

You're right, I didn't address it. Because what I said is entirely true - the mentality is that the "outsiders" must be defended at all costs, no matter how illogical it is. It must stem from that "big up the working man" bullshit.
I don't think "terrorist" when I see a Muslim, and I'm about as anti-Islam as they come so I think your theory needs a bit of work.
Having said that, it's little wonder that Muslims are "persecuted" as you put it, the majority of the blame for that lies squarely with them for their behaviour. It's got nothing to do with "the brown people", Hindus and Sikhs don't get persecuted, Indians in particular are generally well respected - Muslims are disliked and distrusted for their behaviour and culture, much like chavs, "soccer moms" and rednecks.
I'm sure you wouldn't disagree if I pointed out that Americans are generally disliked abroad because of their often arrogant and ignorant attitudes towards host countries, so why do you have such a problem with Muslims being labelled in the same way for more valid reasons?

 

[Absinthe]

I don't believe it's that most people paint all Muslims as evil. I think it's that most people view a majority of Muslims as being complacent when it comes to their faith's branch of extremism; unwilling to criticize it even if they don't agree with it, either due to fear or some misplaced notion of Muslim solidarity.

Regardless of whether or not such views are accurate, the fact of the matter is that such perceptions could be combated if there were more Muslims speaking out against the harsh, violent actions and views of Islamic extremism. But it doesn't help at all when those criticizing from outside the faith are often painted as bigoted, racist, insensitive, or bullying.

From personal experience, I've recommended Sam Harris' End Of Faith to many. And while it often gained favorable opinions for its attacks on Christianity, they all felt twinges of inappropriateness whenever it ventured into the territory of Islam. There is no reason for it to be this way.

ADDED: While I do consider myself a liberal and don't agree with repiV's assessment of modern liberalism, I do think there is an element of truth to it. The only people who hold these reservations are liberals. The "politically correct". There's an ingrained fear of offending others - particularly when it comes to that which is foreign - that's almost stifling. But this is not to say that the common conservative approach is much better: Many outspoken critics of Islam are fascist ideologues, xenophobic, or downright ignorant and racist. It's like one side is content to lie down and let fundamentalist Islam roll over them while the other wants to attack it with blunt stupidity.

 

[repiV]

Yes, it's exactly like that. Rarely, though, are the aforementioned stupid "conservatives" self-professed intellectuals who believe themselves to be too intelligent to consider any other point of view than their own, which is what really grates on my nerves about the left-wing stupidity. The conservatives are stupid and ignorant and don't really have aspirations to be anything else. The mind-boggling thing is that often, the lefty loonies are theoretically intelligent, but they're either criminally insane or utterly deluded.

Personally I think that all non-religious, intelligent and thoughtful people must eventually come to the conclusion that libertarianism to one degree or another is the only correct way forward.

Conviniently, this was just brought to my attention: A topical example of how Muslims bring it on themselves in our society

 

[ComradeBadger]

Personally I think that all non-religious, intelligent and thoughtful people must eventually come to the conclusion that libertarianism to one degree or another is the only correct way forward.

Libertarianism is an economic joke, and therefore a political one too..

 

[Ennui]

I thought libertarianism was a good idea for about a day before I realized it wasn't.

 

[repiV]

Libertarianism is an economic joke, and therefore a political one too..

Libertarianism is economically identical to conservativism, which is responsible for the most prosperous nations in the world...

I don't really follow your line of thought.

 

[repiV]

I thought libertarianism was a good idea for about a day before I realized it wasn't.

So social freedom and economic freedom is a bad idea?

Libertarianism is exactly what the Founding Fathers envisaged when they created the United States of America.

 

[The Monkey]

Libertarianism is economically identical to conservativism, which is responsible for the most prosperous nations in the world...

I don't really follow your line of thought.

Social liberalism, or ideologies close to it, has produced the most prosperous nations in the world.

 

[Nemesis6]

I honestly thought Denmark was gonna beat Britain when it came to mosques, even though they're totally ahead as far as pressure groups, political correctness, and extremism goes. There were plans to build a super mosque in Denmark, too, and I'm quite sure it was the same deal - By extremists, for extremists. Luckily we said no as far as I remember, but Britain... I don't know, they've been going at it longer than Denmark, so I'm quite sure that there's a marginal chance of them having their giant moon-monument in the middle of town sooner than us.

But I guess we have one common weakness: We're both too chicken-shit to say no to groups like Hizb Ut Tahrir and Minhaj Ul Quran, so I guess in some ways, it's dead-close race for the finish line which is submission to Allah(sallahu aleyhi wasalam)... As he said - It's not about respect of Islam, it's about servitude.
Now, the ironic twist to this is that the most "mainstream" mosque in Britain, is already a center of Islamist sentiment, racism, etc, so another, giant moon-monument would just be jim dandy, wouldn't it? :-S

 

[French Ninja]

I read this thread this title as muslims wanting Pat Condell as a hostage....

I agree with him.

 

[hool10]

A young secretary in my school looks like she converted to Islam recently. People have jokingly asked her about why she did it and if she was going to bomb us. Tbh a good Muslim is'nt a person who wants everybody to be Muslim. It has to come from the heart and the same is with every religion I believe. Though she wears a head scarf, I'm very much certain she would be stoned to death anyways. She is'nt fully covered, and regularly talks to infidels. Again though, she would'nt be harmed by a true Muslim! I'm not Muslim but this is how real Muslims do act. Though they still got that erk once in a while on how woman should be treated and other things.

 

[Sainku]

Social liberalism, or ideologies close to it, has produced the most prosperous nations in the world.

There are plenty of examples that would contradict that. I think Social liberalism creates the most stable environment for economies to develop in but isn't what drives them.

 

[theotherguy]

A young secretary in my school looks like she converted to Islam recently. People have jokingly asked her about why she did it and if she was going to bomb us. Tbh a good Muslim is'nt a person who wants everybody to be Muslim. It has to come from the heart and the same is with every religion I believe. Though she wears a head scarf, I'm very much certain she would be stoned to death anyways. She is'nt fully covered, and regularly talks to infidels. Again though, she would'nt be harmed by a true Muslim! I'm not Muslim but this is how real Muslims do act. Though they still got that erk once in a while on how woman should be treated and other things.

No True Scotsman Fallacy.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Libertarianism is economically identical to conservativism, which is responsible for the most prosperous nations in the world...

I don't really follow your line of thought.

It is my understanding that Libertarianism is anarcho-Capitalist, complete laissez faire economics - is that correct?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Social liberalism, or ideologies close to it, has produced the most prosperous nations in the world.

That's not true, The German empire was an extremely social conservative state and was the undisputed economic leader of Europe before WW1.

 

[soulslicer]

females compete wearing a tent..

awesome vid, so true..

 

[No Limit]

You're right, I didn't address it. Because what I said is entirely true - the mentality is that the "outsiders" must be defended at all costs, no matter how illogical it is. It must stem from that "big up the working man" bullshit.
I don't think "terrorist" when I see a Muslim, and I'm about as anti-Islam as they come so I think your theory needs a bit of work.
Having said that, it's little wonder that Muslims are "persecuted" as you put it, the majority of the blame for that lies squarely with them for their behaviour. It's got nothing to do with "the brown people", Hindus and Sikhs don't get persecuted, Indians in particular are generally well respected - Muslims are disliked and distrusted for their behaviour and culture, much like chavs, "soccer moms" and rednecks.
I'm sure you wouldn't disagree if I pointed out that Americans are generally disliked abroad because of their often arrogant and ignorant attitudes towards host countries, so why do you have such a problem with Muslims being labelled in the same way for more valid reasons?

All Americans are different. I'm an american, I think our foreign policy sucks. I know many americans that share the same view as I do. That's the point, all these generalizations are total bullshit based on stereotypes of people that know nothing about the culture. I can certainly understand why people around the world see americans the way they do, its because a small amount of arrogant americans make the most noise making the rest seem silent. The same thing happens with muslims. You keep repeating the same old bullshit. They are not outsiders, many of them were born in your country, many have lived there longer than you have. Many of them have fought for your country. You have no right to tell these people what it means to be British just like the right wing in my country has no right to tell me what it means to be an American. People set up their own small communites based on their culture. Thats whats wonderful about free societies, you get a bunch of different cultures living together in peace. You keep repeating the same crap about muslim behavior? What behavior are you specifically talking about? What percentage do you think that behavior applies to? And I guess you are right, you don't see all muslims as terrorists. I forget the exact word you used, I think it was barbaric, wasn't it?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

You're right, I didn't address it. Because what I said is entirely true - the mentality is that the "outsiders" must be defended at all costs, no matter how illogical it is. It must stem from that "big up the working man" bullshit.
I don't think "terrorist" when I see a Muslim, and I'm about as anti-Islam as they come so I think your theory needs a bit of work.
Having said that, it's little wonder that Muslims are "persecuted" as you put it, the majority of the blame for that lies squarely with them for their behaviour. It's got nothing to do with "the brown people", Hindus and Sikhs don't get persecuted, Indians in particular are generally well respected - Muslims are disliked and distrusted for their behaviour and culture, much like chavs, "soccer moms" and rednecks.
I'm sure you wouldn't disagree if I pointed out that Americans are generally disliked abroad because of their often arrogant and ignorant attitudes towards host countries, so why do you have such a problem with Muslims being labelled in the same way for more valid reasons?

Look. Listen. Right the **** now. You continue to post massive generelisations of an entire religion comprising of millions. Sure, I've said bad things about islam and christianity. But I don't say every single christian is a fundamentlist, and the same with islam. The most vocal are the extremists, so I can see why you make broad sweeping generalisations, but as someone who not only knows but is friends with several muslim, I think I'm qualified to say your making yourself look like an asshole.

 

[The Monkey]

That's not true, The German empire was an extremely social conservative state and was the undisputed economic leader of Europe before WW1.

I wouldn't say undisputed.

And besides, the large majority of the German people never saw a glimpse of the economic wealth.

 

[lePobz]

Pat's a great chap and he makes a lot of sense.

 

[repiV]

It is my understanding that Libertarianism is anarcho-Capitalist, complete laissez faire economics - is that correct?

There's an element of truth to it, but not really.

Modern liberalism (allegedly) desires a high level of social freedom and a low level of economic freedom, while conservativism desires a high level of economic freedom and a low level of social freedom.

Libertarianism is about maintaining a high level of both social and economic freedom - it's the opposite to statism/totalitarianism. Of course, there are degrees of libertarianism just as there are degrees of every other political ideology and it doesn't necessarily mean social and economic anarchy.

Just a thought; I'd be inclined to classify New Labour as statist rather than liberal.

 

[repiV]

All Americans are different. I'm an american, I think our foreign policy sucks. I know many americans that share the same view as I do. That's the point, all these generalizations are total bullshit based on stereotypes of people that know nothing about the culture. I can certainly understand why people around the world see americans the way they do, its because a small amount of arrogant americans make the most noise making the rest seem silent. The same thing happens with muslims. You keep repeating the same old bullshit. They are not outsiders, many of them were born in your country, many have lived there longer than you have. Many of them have fought for your country. You have no right to tell these people what it means to be British just like the right wing in my country has no right to tell me what it means to be an American. People set up their own small communites based on their culture. Thats whats wonderful about free societies, you get a bunch of different cultures living together in peace. You keep repeating the same crap about muslim behavior? What behavior are you specifically talking about? What percentage do you think that behavior applies to? And I guess you are right, you don't see all muslims as terrorists. I forget the exact word you used, I think it was barbaric, wasn't it?

Free societies are NOT about "a bunch of different cultures living together in peace". The term you are searching for is "multicultural societies", which are being proven a total disaster all over Europe.

The US, a free society the last time I checked, puts a great deal of emphasis on the American identity and that immigrants must become Americans above all else and believe in the American ideology and the American way. It's the total antithesis to "having lots of cultures living together in peace". Until very recently, America had ONE culture. The mistake we make is not following suit.

What behaviour? I've gone over this countless times, why do you need me to repeat myself? It's a general failure/refusal to integrate that is specific to Muslims.

If you can't see the difference between saying that Islam is barbaric and that all Muslims are barbaric, I don't know what the point of even talking to you is. Furthermore, if you can't make the connection between uncontrolled immigration from barbaric societies and cultures that run counter to Western values, and social breakdown, then I think you need a reality check.

 

[repiV]

Look. Listen. Right the **** now. You continue to post massive generelisations of an entire religion comprising of millions. Sure, I've said bad things about islam and christianity. But I don't say every single christian is a fundamentlist, and the same with islam. The most vocal are the extremists, so I can see why you make broad sweeping generalisations, but as someone who not only knows but is friends with several muslim, I think I'm qualified to say your making yourself look like an asshole.

So where did I say anything about all Muslims?

The simple fact is that "the Muslim community" as a whole is causing this country infinitely more trouble than they are worth. Economically, and sociologically, they would not be missed in the slightest. Whether individual Muslims are good people or not is irrelevant.

 

[repiV]

I wouldn't say undisputed.

And besides, the large majority of the German people never saw a glimpse of the economic wealth.

That's irrelevant. Social liberalism redistributes and channels wealth, but it can never create it. For pure creation of wealth, laissez-faire capitalism will always be best. No country ever taxed itself into prosperity. Now if you want to talk about which balance creates the best society to live in, that's a different discussion altogether.

 

[No Limit]

Free societies are NOT about "a bunch of different cultures living together in peace". The term you are searching for is "multicultural societies", which are being proven a total disaster all over Europe

The US, a free society the last time I checked, puts a great deal of emphasis on the American identity and that immigrants must become Americans above all else and believe in the American ideology and the American way. It's the total antithesis to "having lots of cultures living together in peace". Until very recently, America had ONE culture. The mistake we make is not following suit.

A free soceity means you do not persecute a minority because the majority says so. How is this proving to be a disaster in Europe? Its been happening here since the 1800s and we are the most powerful country in the world. I wouldn't call that a disaster.

I don't know where you got that America puts a great deal of emphasis on the "american identity". I know you never lived here so I won't say you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about, instead I'll simply correct you. All around this country each little area has their own ethnic community. Chicago is a great example of this. They have a huge Polish population so they have communties set up where you would think you were in Poland just by being there. They have Polish food, everyone speaks Polish originally. And most of their signs have english along side Polish. New York is similar with Poles, Italians, and jews, and others. Same for San Francisco. New Orleans had a great black community. Here in the southwest we have a great mexican community, most eat mexican food, most signs are also written in spanish, and a lot of people speak spanish. This has been the case for decades, it is by no means a new epedemic. And so far we are still standing here strong. So again, you have no idea about what the hell you are talking about because the crazy ass right wing in this country is so ****ing loud and obnoxious you don't hear about any of this, instead you hear about how we are being invaded by foreigners.

What behaviour? I've gone over this countless times, why do you need me to repeat myself? It's a general failure/refusal to integrate that is specific to Muslims.

Will you please answer this question because it is very important. You say muslim people exhibit a certain behavior. What specific examples of this do you have and what percentage of the muslim population does it apply to. If you repeat that they fail to intigrate you will have to give some specifics.

f you can't see the difference between saying that Islam is barbaric and that all Muslims are barbaric, I don't know what the point of even talking to you is.

So now your point is that muslims themselves are not barbaric but the religion itself is? If thats what you truly believe great. But then what's your point? Why do you want to persecute individual muslims? I do believe you agreed with nemesis about throwing them out of your country did you not?

 

[soulslicer]

Quoted from the video

The Saudi Royal Family funds terrorism

That is so GODDAMN true..

exerpt from RD article

While, Condemning terrorism, the Saudi Royal Family spends millions that fall into the hands of Islamic Extremists who foster conflicts throughout the world

article: http://www.multiline.com.au/~johnm/submit/saudi.htm

 

[No Limit]

The Saudi Royal Family funds terrorism

But thats different, the Saudis are the friendly terrorists.

I haven't seen the video yet, my apologies. But does he actually offer any solutions to this "problem" or is it just repeating everything we already know?

 

[soulslicer]

just see the last 1 min of the vid and you will know..

 

[repiV]

A free soceity means you do not persecute a minority because the majority says so. How is this proving to be a disaster in Europe? Its been happening here since the 1800s and we are the most powerful country in the world. I wouldn't call that a disaster.

Who said anything about persecuting minorities because the majority said so?
The reality is that a level of integration is required for a society to function properly, if you come here and refuse to live by British mores then quite frankly - **** off.

I don't know where you got that America puts a great deal of emphasis on the "american identity". I know you never lived here so I won't say you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about, instead I'll simply correct you. All around this country each little area has their own ethnic community. Chicago is a great example of this. They have a huge Polish population so they have communties set up where you would think you were in Poland just by being there. They have Polish food, everyone speaks Polish originally. And most of their signs have english along side Polish. New York is similar with Poles, Italians, and jews, and others. Same for San Francisco. New Orleans had a great black community. Here in the southwest we have a great mexican community, most eat mexican food, most signs are also written in spanish, and a lot of people speak spanish. This has been the case for decades, it is by no means a new epedemic. And so far we are still standing here strong. So again, you have no idea about what the hell you are talking about because the crazy ass right wing in this country is so ****ing loud and obnoxious you don't hear about any of this, instead you hear about how we are being invaded by foreigners.

The Mexicans in the south-west is why I said "until very recently".
The US is different, however, because despite all the cultural and regional tangents, the country is still united by its Americanness. The principles that the USA was founded on are held dear, generally, by all US citizens - foreign-born or otherwise. No matter where you go, people are American first and foremost and are proud of the fact.
Over here, there is no overarching unity in that sense. We don't have immigrant sub-cultures, they're completely separate cultures and don't really interact with the host culture at all. Thus, social breakdown and segregation ensues.
Why do you think culture exists, anyway? Obviously it serves some kind of purpose.

Will you please answer this question because it is very important. You say muslim people exhibit a certain behavior. What specific examples of this do you have and what percentage of the muslim population does it apply to. If you repeat that they fail to intigrate you will have to give some specifics.

Let's see...

The Muslim Council of Britain's "guidelines" on education which I posted earlier in the thread and you obviously failed to read is a big clue.
Muslims refusing to carry passengers with alcohol.
Muslims working at supermarkets refusing to sell alcohol and contraception on ethical grounds.
A sizeable percentage of the Muslim population support terrorism and consider the London underground bombers as martyrs.
Wearing of the veil.
The fact that they follow an illiberal doctrine that is incompatible with a modern secular democracy.
Trying to control the country politically.
Complaining incessantly about everything they don't like but remaining eerily silent about the actions of extremists.
Cultural imperialism.
And many more besides.

Or, you could just take a walk around east London, Bradford or Birmingham sometime. I'm sure you'd have a very different perspective indeed.

So now your point is that muslims themselves are not barbaric but the religion itself is? If thats what you truly believe great. But then what's your point? Why do you want to persecute individual muslims? I do believe you agreed with nemesis about throwing them out of your country did you not?

I always said that it's the religion that's barbaric - the reality is, however, that the Muslims who aren't barbaric are either ignorant, stupid or complicit. Go and spend some time on faithfreedom.org.
I never said I want to persecute individual Muslims - if you have an idea for how to force a group of people millions strong that exists in its own little bubble and has chronic integration problems to adapt their value system so that it doesn't contradict with ours, by all means tell me.
Islam as an ideology is little different to Nazism, and we don't usually allow Nazis to come into the country. Although I'm sure there are and have been plenty of ignorant, stupid but decent enough Nazis out there too.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

TBH, while faithfreedom.org is a great website, it is a little overdramtic.

Faith Freedom International is a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. Its goals are to (a) unmask Islam and show that it is an imperialistic ideology akin to Nazism but disguised as religion and (b) to help Muslims leave it, end this culture of hate caused by their "us" vs. "them" ethos and embrace the human race in amity. We strive for the unity of Mankind through the elimination of Islam, the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can't be molded, but it can be smashed. It is rigid but brittle. That is why Muslims do not tolerate criticism of it. To eradicate Islam, all we have to do is tell the truth. It's that simple. Truth about Islam is out. It's all here in this site. Now it is up to you to spread it. With truth, the decent Muslims will leave Islam and with each Muslim that leaves, we gain a new soldier in our fight against terrorism. We are growing exponentially. The days of Islam are numbered and world peace is around the corner. Many of us will see that day. We might have to go through very tough times meanwhile. The storm is approaching.

Yeah, because only muslims are terroists and the erdication of islam will stop all our problems.

 

[repiV]

TBH, while faithfreedom.org is a great website, it is a little overdramtic.


Yeah, because only muslims are terroists and the erdication of islam will stop all our problems.

Well...actually it would solve a lot of them. Islam clearly is the biggest threat to the free world at present, not because it is militarily powerful, but because of the combination of the overwhelming power of the extremist ideology and the apathy and complacency of Western people and governments towards the threat. We allow it to flourish within our midst, and unless we take action now then I can guarantee that, sooner or later, it will eventually end in the attempted takeover of the Western world by Islam from within. We could stop this from happening now, and it wouldn't even have to be violent, but because people refuse to see Islam for what it is, it will become violent in due course. An Islamic revolution 50 years down the line isn't so hard to imagine, is it?

 

[No Limit]

The Mexicans in the south-west is why I said "until very recently".
The US is different, however, because despite all the cultural and regional tangents, the country is still united by its Americanness. The principles that the USA was founded on are held dear, generally, by all US citizens - foreign-born or otherwise. No matter where you go, people are American first and foremost and are proud of the fact.
Over here, there is no overarching unity in that sense. We don't have immigrant sub-cultures, they're completely separate cultures and don't really interact with the host culture at all. Thus, social breakdown and segregation ensues.
Why do you think culture exists, anyway? Obviously it serves some kind of purpose.

Wow, you seem to know more about my country than I do. We are united in the sense that we live in the same country, every foreigner has their own culture. I'm originally polish so I think I know what I am talking about in this respect. This kinid of culture mixing here has been going on for centuries and thats what defines america despite what the right wing here would like you to believe. We are no more patriotic than any other country. We hang american flags here, you hand british flags there. We have a national anthem you have a national anthem. It is no different than any other place on earth eventhough we have the most diverse population on the planet.

Let's see...

The Muslim Council of Britain's "guidelines" on education which I posted earlier in the thread and you obviously failed to read is a big clue.
Muslims refusing to carry passengers with alcohol.
Muslims working at supermarkets refusing to sell alcohol and contraception on ethical grounds.
A sizeable percentage of the Muslim population support terrorism and consider the London underground bombers as martyrs.
Wearing of the veil.
The fact that they follow an illiberal doctrine that is incompatible with a modern secular democracy.
Trying to control the country politically.
Complaining incessantly about everything they don't like but remaining eerily silent about the actions of extremists.
Cultural imperialism.
And many more besides.

You didn't answer the second part of my question, how many muslims do you think that applies to?

The link you posted doesnt say anything about how many muslims are doing that. If you dont like the pharmacy because a muslim wont sell you brith control go to a different pharmacy. You have a gripe with cab companies allowing their cab drivers to do that? Ride a different cab. I was under the impression you liked the free market. I will agree with you that they have no right to refuse to do what is required of them to complete public school and if you guys want to change your laws I will support that, but again, this is a small minority. When you say most thought the london bombers were martyrs can you post a source for that if you have it, I know someone posted it here before but I cant find it.

Or, you could just take a walk around east London, Bradford or Birmingham sometime. I'm sure you'd have a very different perspective indeed.

If I make it to London next summer I'll be sure to do that.

I never said I want to persecute individual Muslims - if you have an idea for how to force a group of people millions strong that exists in its own little bubble and has chronic integration problems to adapt their value system so that it doesn't contradict with ours, by all means tell me.

That's your opinion. They are adapting in my country perfectly fine. And from what most people in the UK said in that other thread they are adapting there perfectly too. But I guess I should take your word for it.

 

[No Limit]

Well...actually it would solve a lot of them. Islam clearly is the biggest threat to the free world at present, not because it is militarily powerful, but because of the combination of the overwhelming power of the extremist ideology and the apathy and complacency of Western people and governments towards the threat. We allow it to flourish within our midst, and unless we take action now then I can guarantee that, sooner or later, it will eventually end in the attempted takeover of the Western world by Islam from within. We could stop this from happening now, and it wouldn't even have to be violent, but because people refuse to see Islam for what it is, it will become violent in due course. An Islamic revolution 50 years down the line isn't so hard to imagine, is it?

And the west is the biggest threat to them. Now you have to ask which came first, the chicken or the egg? And more importantly how do we stop this radical movement? By bombing them? By beating them to submission? How?