More Intelligent: HL1 Grunts or HL2 Combine?

[Pesmerga]

They don't appear to do anything fancy, usually because they don't get the chance

Very true.

HL2 has "smarter" AI, but it's very hard to tell it. I guarenetee you, when someone makes a mod with realistic damage, AI will shine ever so brightly. It's the mapper's job to take advantage of it; give AI cover areas, fall-back plans, hiding spots, ect. When it comes down to it, the only AI that needs working is better reaction to player actions. Like someone stated earlier in this thread, the fast zombies breaking in through the glass. It's an excellent examble of finding new routes to the same destination.

My only dissapointment in AI was the Strider thing. I never really got to see it use the alleged "manipulating environment" thing, where it would duck under a bridge or use one leg as leverage to get to a high place. Sure, how it walks flawlessly right now is impressive, but I was told it could do more.

 

[Sparta]

The HL1 grunts AI seems much more impressive AND effective, i dont think changing the maps to HL2 maps would make a difference.

The only reason they were more effective to some people is because they have more HP.

For example, you can unload a whole MP5 clip into their head and they wont go down.

 

[Jintor]

One of the best examples I've seen of HL2's enemies AI was this time I was playing sandtraps. Not having time to place the three "toasters" into the slots and open that gate, combine troops came through. Falling back to the ther side of the outpost, I watched as they spread out, running towards me from different directions, using terrain as cover. Because of this, I couldn't concentrate my fire on more than one, so I got shot back at from several directions. Wow...

I did that one... but in my version i camped next to the door, and they ran in one by one... not nearly as impressive. I replayed it and they flushed me out of the house and into the gunship's range... man that was annoying.

I think it's the terrain and the relative stats.

 

[Planeforger]

All of a second, all 5 of the zombies CRASHED through the glass ceiling and started gnawing at me. Now this was my second play through, they will in fact just come through the door if you leave it open, but i thought it was awesome that they drop through the glass.

I'm pretty sure that was scripted.

One of the best examples I've seen of HL2's enemies AI was this time I was playing sandtraps. Not having time to place the three "toasters" into the slots and open that gate, combine troops came through. Falling back to the ther side of the outpost, I watched as they spread out, running towards me from different directions, using terrain as cover. Because of this, I couldn't concentrate my fire on more than one, so I got shot back at from several directions. Wow...

When I tried that, the same happened to me, but when they got close they walked towards me in single file.

My only dissapointment in AI was the Strider thing. I never really got to see it use the alleged "manipulating environment" thing, where it would duck under a bridge or use one leg as leverage to get to a high place. Sure, how it walks flawlessly right now is impressive, but I was told it could do more.

The striders do duck if they go under a low place (unscripted).

I would have to say that the Combine ai is better, for all the reasons above. Even if their tactics aren't brilliant, they have cool scripted bits to make up for it. Also, I love the way they throw manhacks at you, send up flares, and sneak up behind you with shotguns.

 

[PvtRyan]

The AI definitely comes out best NPC vs NPC, especially if you make combine fight eachother (ai_relationship). I built a map where Combine soldiers a higher legde accesable by stairs, and the enemy started outside of the building. The defending team moved up slowly behind cover as they pushed the attackers back, they would never blindly rush in (like HL1 AI).

I also built a maze map, where I fought against a few combine soldiers. I encountered them and they threw a grenade, then he counted down to the moment the grenade exploded and suddenly I got rushed in from the side by a soldier who took another path to flank me, driving me into the grenade.

 

[wilka91]

Grunts (1998 AI) > combine (2004 AI)

 

[Seppo]

Well atleast the combine don't jsut stand still when you're chewing on their leg with a machinegun.

 

[Pai-Mei]

Grunts (1998 AI) > combine (2004 AI)

Wow. Impressive argument. I think you've convinced me.

Anyway, I think the grunts are harder, as everyone pointed out, because of the HP, but also because, while their AI was stupider, it was more suicidal. Put these two traits together and you have a tough enemy. I seem to recall HL grunts just standing there "ducking for cover" when I threw a grenade at them. Sometimes they ran, sometimes they just cowered, covering their heads like a scientist. At the same time, if I was camped in a position, they would all rush me and I would be able to take a few out, but they would beat me.

Combine AI, on the other hand, seems to be a lot better. I recall them often ducking behind boxes/walls, coming up and firing like whack-a-moles and then going right back down before I could get a bead on them. They often spread out around me so I could never get cover from all of them at once. Yet at the same time, they died with a just a few headshots.

In my opinion, both grunts and combine are pretty much evenly difficult, at least on both respective 'Hard' settings, but Combine are more difficult because of their AI whereas grunts are more difficult because of their HP and suicidal tactics.

 

[Seppo]

When Half-Life came out, it had the best AI I had seen. I think it was probably the first time someone actually tried to make an enemy that would do something else than just rush you

 

[Pesmerga]

A game's difficulty isn't really determined by AI. Doom II was harder than HL or HL2, but doesn't mean the AI was better. HL2 has a far better AI, it's just not as difficult. Put HL2's AI in another mod with high HP and damage; you got a hell of a difficult game there.

 

[ViolenceJack]

Didnt read everything couldnt be arsed. Anyway i would say combine. The thing that makes grunts look better is the novalties such as droping grenades on the floor when low hp and running, i mean thats all it was. AI was sort of, if im low on hp place nade and run, its nothing special there wasnt any real thinking behind it but it was cool non the less. Also when they knew you were at a certain area but could shoot they grenaded the hell out of the place. The combine didnt do that much plus you can just throw em backin HL2 where you couldnt in HL. Although it makes you think, where did the grunts store the million grens they had.

Somin i noticed in HL2 is the combine dont just run at you, like if you go behind a corner they dont run straight at where you were like the grunts did. Sort of taking the shortest distance to you so they could start shooting you again. ive noticed in HL2 that combines have kept a distance and then moved around so they could see around the corner but not stand right next to me. Somin you would more likely do in real life.

There abit unpredicitable as well. Alot of people are drawn in by novel crap such as come up behind you trash. Most games that try to say they have cool AI have, come up your arse stuff and people fall for it. It gets very predictable, everytime you see an enemy then go behind a wall, what do you do, turn around and the enemy is coming from the other end, it always happens. Ive had it happen with combine but not very often, they usually keep there distance which is smart considering your generally the one attacking and there defending why would they want to rush at you.

Thats why i think people may find other games or the grunts in HL better, its just all the novelty shit. AI that basicly thinks "Ill come up behind him" "yeah mate youve done that the past 100 times if you actually came up from the front you would suprise me for once"

oh and HL was harder than Doom 3, although Doom 3 was harder than HL2. The further into the future we go the easier games seem to get. Ive often thought it may just be me getting better buts its not, go back to old games and there still as solid as ever. Once in a blue moon you do get a hard game though, quicksave makes it even easier, i never used that in HL2 and still found it easy though. Valve better make HL3 or what ever hard but i bet it wil be easier than HL2. Soon we will have games where god mode would be always on and you would have to cheat to have health.

 

[PvtRyan]

Main thing is, you can have all the AI in the world, but it's not going to make a f*cking difference if you can sprint up to them and gun them in the head with a shotgun. HL2 should force the player to play more defensively, to actually give the AI the time to do cool stuff. Biggest area of improvement in difficulty would be upping the soldier accuracy, they can't hit shit atm. If they were more accurate, they would force the player behind cover.

 

[fluX]

Main thing is, you can have all the AI in the world, but it's not going to make a f*cking difference if you can sprint up to them and gun them in the head with a shotgun. HL2 should force the player to play more defensively, to actually give the AI the time to do cool stuff. Biggest area of improvement in difficulty would be upping the soldier accuracy, they can't hit shit atm. If they were more accurate, they would force the player behind cover.

Right. I actually found HL2's AI a rather let-dpwn. Even on hard
enemies had

a) poor aiming
b) poor cooperation
c) and mid HP

It was mostly too easy to beat them. Farcry was much tougher on hard - ok, th last two levels were utterly unfair, but in general I felt much more challenged by the AI.

 

[fifty7var]

I think its interesting the way valve biased the AI to charge the player simply because it "makes gravity gun fighting more fun." I can understand how they would be pushing the new elements of gameplay, but i felt at times throughout the game that i was using the gravity gun too much... it made things too easy without having to worry about ammo or anything.

Adam

 

[Blakeb155]

I don't think either AI's are anything to get excited over.