MP Map making?

[Homercidal]

Ok, since it appears that there will be no integrated MP in HL2, the question for those of us who would like to make a homegrown map remain.

How coudl we build a custom map for sh!ts and Giggles? I mean if there is no MP game, then there is probalby not going to be a way to put MP start points in a custom map, and no MP code to play the map on anyway?

If a MOD team end up making MP game, how does the average user build maps using the editor (Included?)?

I'm so used to there being MP modules, I'm not sure how it is possible with HL2...

 

[Chris D]

Well you'll be able to make maps for CS:Source with the Hammer editor that will be included in the Half-Life 2 SDK.

Now we know from people playing the stolen build that there was a DM component in there, so it's likely that it will be quickly modded. Valve have indicated that there may be a DM in the future though.

 

[Clavius]

I still think its pretty poor.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I want to make a DM map, I'd have to choose one of the prolly bazilion DM mods, wich all use their own way of getting it to work, and then somehow find a way of getting their custom crap in my map.

I agree with Homercidal that its dumb and clumsy that they did not include HL2DM, or at least one tutorial map or something.

EDIT: Oh, something poppud up in my mind when I read over my post.
I guess the maps for the DM mods wont be compatible with the other mods! how handy! This way you have to install all mods! way to go valve!

 

[IchI]

Build a HL2 map add more than one Info_player_start... there u go you have a DM match. Trype connect "IP" in console and there u go you have multiplayer. The end....

Its stupid to think that because a game doesn't already have something that it does and then say you can't make a mod from it. There are pritty much no mod that will use the standard hl2 FDG. Most of them will program there own custom FDG's

 

[Dead-Inside]

I think there's gonna be MP code included with the game, I seriously doubt you'll *have to* write your own. I think they decided not to include MP and set a date when they should release it. This to allow more mods to start up first and help them take initiativ.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Homercidal]

Build a HL2 map add more than one Info_player_start... there u go you have a DM match. Trype connect "IP" in console and there u go you have multiplayer. The end....

Its stupid to think that because a game doesn't already have something that it does and then say you can't make a mod from it. There are pritty much no mod that will use the standard hl2 FDG. Most of them will program there own custom FDG's

edit: forgot to comment on the quote.

I dont' know what you mean by FDG. I'm not even close to being a competent Modder. I've done several MP maps in several games (Starting with Doom), but that's about it. Usually I don't have the time to finish a decent level, but it's fun to build things with the editor, even if it's just a representation of my house to see how the new roof design looks before deciding to build it.

Typing "connect IP" in the console doesn't set number of players, passwords, etc. Those are basic things which a MP game needs to be useable IMO. A 1-on-1 game could be fun that way, but most of my level ideas are for 4-6 players, the average number of people I expect to play during our LAN parties.


I'm not sure how much required code is there and whether we would be able to tap into it with the editor. A friend and I have had an MP map idea for a long time, even as far as starting it in other MP games, but to us, the only real way it could be done was in HL. Now it seems kind of silly to build it for HL when HL2 is practically available.

I didn't mean to sound mad, simply asking if anyone knew how this stuff worked. I'm assuming that MOD makers would be able to use the code to their needs, but the average person who is just using the Hammer editor might not be able to create a simple MP map for a few guys to run around in...

One thing that causes concern is that in order to play MP, you would have to have a MP start menu, etc. That will not be included, so we'd have to rely on the MOD community to build one... right? I'd prefer an out-of-the-box solution to that problem so I can start building right away.

In this way, I think that maybe Valve has taken something from the community, rather than encouraging and nurturing the community, as their reputation indicates.

Doe sanyone have any other ideas or information? I'd really like to think that we could start building simple (Not Mods) MP maps for the game right away. What fun is it to play SP maps that you've created? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[ukfluke]

dude, dont worry u can make deathmatch maps easy with HL2 & the map making software called 'valve hammer editor'. To make the maps and run around u dont need a multiplayer menu option.

as long as they include hammer with hl2 ur good to go on the map making front.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Ichi means FGD*. It's the data file that Hammer uses to define what entities are used in a mod.

As for the MP, we just don't know. The MP portion of the SDK may be based on CS:Source, or it may have a simple DM mode built-in. Bottom line is that we don't know.

*FGD actually stands for "Forge Game Data", from when Hammer/Worldcraft (actually a commercial product back then) was going to be called WorldForge.

 

[Homercidal]

Well you'll be able to make maps for CS:Source with the Hammer editor that will be included in the Half-Life 2 SDK.

Now we know from people playing the stolen build that there was a DM component in there, so it's likely that it will be quickly modded. Valve have indicated that there may be a DM in the future though.

Stolen build!! You must ban yourself immediately!

Seriously, I really had my hopes on the MP aspect of the game. I don't usually finish SP games. I'm barely even started on Doom 3. But anyway, I was hoping to start building the level when the game came out and now my hopes have been dashed on the sharp and uncaring reef of life's rocky coast.

I'm just seeing if anyone else might have a better understanding of the MP capabilities from the small map-builders point of view.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Another point to consider - HL singleplayer was basically a loopback multiplayer. The game starts a server and you connect to it. If a map had multiple player starts, it was possible to connect to it from another PC. If HL2 works the same way, it should make life a little easier for you.

 

[Homercidal]

Ichi means FGD*. It's the data file that Hammer uses to define what entities are used in a mod.

As for the MP, we just don't know. The MP portion of the SDK may be based on CS:Source, or it may have a simple DM mode built-in. Bottom line is that we don't know.

*FGD actually stands for "Forge Game Data", from when Hammer/Worldcraft (actually a commercial product back then) was going to be called WorldForge.

Ah, I see. Nobody really knows, but there is hope that the editor can select from MP items. How about performing calculations in-game? How does that work?

I't sbeen a while since I used Worldcraft. I remember it wasn't too bad, but kinda buggy. We actually had a significant portion of our level completed before we quit on it. I'm sure the partial maps are long gone now, but should be pretty easy to start back up again.

The wait for information is killing me now that i know the time is nearly up. I better get my things in order so that I'm ready to play. Might need to get a new HDD or delete some pr0n... tough choice.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

There ought to be some documentation with the SDK that'll tell you how to use the features added with the new engine.

 

[Homercidal]

I know what SDK is, but not sure what they entail or comprise. I've just done the simple editing. Does the SDK come with the game or is it available for free? I'd hate to have to download some other Modder's software just to implement a simple map. I mean, the point about using all kinds of Mods' software has been made.

To me a Mod actually makes a different kind of game, whereas the DM game is an already established Mod that is normally offered by the game developer. I suppose if there were a standard Mod offering simple DM that could be used, but out-of-the-box would be better, I think. more stadardized. not like "Oh, I built this MP map, but you will need "insert name here" Mod in order to play it.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

The SDK will consist of the source to the game DLLs (singleplayer and whatever they picked for MP), model export tools, Hammer, texture converter tools and some basic documentation.

Map-wise, a standard DM map should work on most MP mods, but it heavily depends on what entities they added/changed. For example - you can make a DM map and it'll "work" in CS - you'll be able to spawn etc, but without the buyzones, hostages, bomb points etc, it won't work properly.

 

[johnshafft]

isnt valve working on a add on pack alreday I bet that it will have more MP options. and they might bring in some of the better game play mod to make it a better bundle. its also possible that they might offer some type of mapping contest so the community builds the maps since many consider DM dead, and prefer cooperative teamplay like cs

 

[Homercidal]

So again I'll ask the question, will the SDK be a free thing, or only for the very serious modders out there? I would hate to have to purchase a $10,000 SDK to build a few simple maps. Or am I completely wrong here? I haven't used a SDK before and have no practically coding experience (for games).

I'm all for expansion packs, and even enjoyed playing Blue Shift, but to me DM is not dead. Esp since Half-life DM was one of my most favorite games ever. We played a lot of Crossfire.

I have tried a couple of the "teambased" games and even the "tactical shooters", but none of them seemed much fun to me. I think it would be more enjoyable to have a team made up that you really knew and could count on to do certain things, but for me, the thrill was for standard DM.

The thing that I enjoyed about Crossfire was that besides the DM play, you also had to worry about someone setting off the airstrike, which sometimes made a person hav eto decide whether to kill the other person, or try to make it back to the bast shelter. Add the fact that someone is likely to be camping out, waiting fo the mad rush of players, that everyone usually had an equal chance to either come out the victor, or be destroyed, sometimes in cruel and unusual manners.

This concept is behind the design of our own level. Something that will force people to duke it out in a small area, eventually leaving only one person the victor. This person then has to make it back out of the "safe zone". Guess who will be the most wanted target for the next round? During this emergence from the safe zone will be an ample opportunity for people to make their revenge. The trick will be to balance the gameplay for the whole map, while providing that occassional moment of "OH SH!T!" when they will need to gather in the "safe zone".

It should be a fun level for the 4-6 people it would be designed for, and if the thing is done properly, should appeal to the people who are tired of straight DM, while still catering to those who are not.

Of course there would the obligatory sniping locations, but not a sniping level per se. Lots of people like rockets (and guided rockets), and other weapons. The same requirements of weapons balancing apply.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

the SDK will be free.

 

[Homercidal]

So does that come with the game, or do people download it? I've read that people had expected it to come out even before the game was released.

One thing I'd like to be able to do is create a blast zone similar, but not necessarily identical to Crossfire's. But in some way kill all players within area "x". This is to force them into another area of the map, where they will be killed mercilessly by my awesome weapons of destruction! :sniper: MWUAHAHAHAHA! ehem... Sorry.

 

[Demonmerc]

It will come out over Steam.

 

[Homercidal]

Cool. I may not be able to use much of the SDK due to my limited experience with... Modding. But I'll check it out when it's available (Since I've given up Pr0n, I need something to do with my Internet connection and the extra 10 minutes I'll gain.)

I've decided to kick it back up with my friend and start designing the old level again. There are a couple of new ideas, and if the Manipulator makes it into the Mp game, there will be even more fun things to build into the level.

Damn, I don't have enough time already to do everything and now I'm going to start on building a level agin...