my thoughts on realism.

America is stigger happy. Here in the UK if you wanna get away with a robbery, you have to beat up a few people, like a man, dont need your cowardly guns.
 
its a game not real life lol
u cud also say that its not real cos no1 goes to war sat in a chair in a warm room and a mug of bovril at there side
but then some of us can distinguish between a GAME and real life :rolling:
 
I'm a deer hunter. I own 12 guns. I like to shoot them. My woodsmaster 30.06 will kill with one round, usually knocks the deer right off their feet. I love venison. DON'T TRY TO ROB ME!! :thumbs:
 
It's nothing to do with people that use guns, i myself own..get this.. an AIR-RIFLE, and i was in the CCF when i was going through school and got to play around with military bang sticks, i don't have a problem with their existence.

However, when mister man comes on talking about realism in a game and starts spewing up facts and figures about the latest deal delaing device it freaks me out a little.

Anyone that can obsess about the fact that one stick that shoots red hot metal can do it faster than another is a little strange.
 
jpman said:
I'm a deer hunter. I own 12 guns. I like to shoot them. My woodsmaster 30.06 will kill with one round, usually knocks the deer right off their feet. I love venison. DON'T TRY TO ROB ME!! :thumbs:
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sicko, i hate people like you who shoot animals for fun and think its funny and gloat about it on forums. Grow up, why do you think you are good just because you own 12 guns. Forget it, i'm too angry with people like you...

EDIT: i own a table leg that i could knock you right off your feet with, how fun? killing animals and people...
 
Hectic Glenn said:
sicko, i hate people like you who shoot animals for fun and think its funny and gloat about it on forums. Grow up, why do you think you are good just because you own 12 guns. Forget it, i'm too angry with people like you...

EDIT: i own a table leg that i could knock you right off your feet with, how fun? killing animals and people...
Click to expand...

It's good you edited that, otherwise your point on crass violence would have gone way over our heads.
 
i agree with m0nkeY. who cares if the famas doesnt fire fast enough, or the para isnt accurate enough, its just a game. we dont play games to simulate a war, most of us dont anyways, we play them to have fun and get away from real life.
tbh, ive fired my dads old winchester rifle and i prefer the experience of actually shooting it in real life, except for the part where my shoulder turned blue after 20 shots :p
 
I feel sorry for people having to grow up in the concrete jungle. Yes I shoot deer, Yes I eat deer. Are you a vegan? If not stfu. Obviously you know nothing about the subject. All you know about hunting is what you see on TV,which usually has nothing to do with how it is done in the woods. Do you have leather clothes or shoes. Where do you think these come from asswipe. What is better ,cows in a corral waiting for the knife or free roaming animals that have a chance at survival? Every animal I shoot I eat. But I guess that breaks your poor little heart. To bad. Just go down to the store pick up a porterhouse grill it up than when you have a full belly come back and talk to me.
 
Hectic Glenn said:
sicko, i hate people like you who shoot animals for fun and think its funny and gloat about it on forums. Grow up, why do you think you are good just because you own 12 guns. Forget it, i'm too angry with people like you...

EDIT: i own a table leg that i could knock you right off your feet with, how fun? killing animals and people...
Click to expand...

Yeah really
 
jpman said:
I feel sorry for people having to grow up in the concrete jungle. Yes I shoot deer, Yes I eat deer. Are you a vegan? If not stfu. Obviously you know nothing about the subject. All you know about hunting is what you see on TV,which usually has nothing to do with how it is done in the woods. Do you have leather clothes or shoes. Where do you think these come from asswipe. What is better ,cows in a corral waiting for the knife or free roaming animals that have a chance at survival? Every animal I shoot I eat. But I guess that breaks your poor little heart. To bad. Just go down to the store pick up a porterhouse grill it up than when you have a full belly come back and talk to me.
Click to expand...


I don't like that we have to kill other animals but its a necessity for our survival. After reading your post, I can understand where you're coming from. Animals kill other animals in the wild and we, humans, are animals as well. I don't like that these corporations are pumping these animals full of chemicals to make them grow quicker(steroids) and then systematically kill them. I've seen what they do to these animals. They hang em by their legs upside down and then slit their throats and drain them while they're still alive. :(
 
Hectic Glenn said:
sicko, i hate people like you who shoot animals for fun and think its funny and gloat about it on forums.
Click to expand...
Maybe you missed the end of his post; he said "I love venison." That would lead a reasonable person to conclude that he does NOT shoot for fun, because if he did, he would not eat the animal.

I wonder if you know what would happen to groups of deer if hunters didn't thin out their numbers. Their numbers would swell, their groups would become diseased and blighted, and they would overeat plant life.

Are there hunters that kill out there just for fun? Sure, there are assholes all around. But true hunters are also conservationists, because they know that all species have to be kept in check. There's nothing around that can keep us in check, so we're ****ing up the Earth.

By the way, I've never shot an animal.

Edit: Apparently I've been beaten to most of my points. Hmm...pity.
 
He_Who_Is_Steve said:
But true hunters are also conservationists, because they know that all species have to be kept in check. There's nothing around that can keep us in check, so we're ****ing up the Earth.
Click to expand...


Ah, so true and so sad. :) ;(
 
wow, i opened a can of worms. seems like i have every gun nut and tree hugger here just waiting to duke it out. on one side, i feel sorry for the tree huggers.. they'll get shot before they can come close enough to hug one of the nuts... but on the other i also feel sorry for the nuts because they'll have to go through a sub-standard legal system. partly because of people like the tree huggers.

for my own two cents, i think its at least moderately important to mention that deer, when they overpopulate- which they would every year without a combination of hunters and natural predators- can destroy the environment you're so quick to claim needs the hunters to stop. the only argument i think you could make is that hunters detract from the deer gene pool by taking the BEST of the herd and not the worst of it. even that argument falls flat when you realize how hard it is to find a herd, much less the 'best' in it.

now, onto the part that really bugs me.

you people say you don't like realism, because it isn't fair. i say thats quite a bit of bullshit. theres always SOMETHING you can do to tilt the odds in your favor. whats that? you don't believe me? well, heres some evidence:

WWII: the germans. one country, one or two allies: they, along with one of the most ineffectual armies ever known (the italians) held europe in a death grip for seven or eight years. did they do it by being fair? no, the odds were tipped against them. they did it by striking quickly and securing areas- using, at the time, superior technology- and THEN looking for somewhere else to conquer. little things like better training (the SS) and better weapons (mp-40, mp-44, Gewer, K-98, etc) and high motivation (unfortunately, but along the same lines as religion in my book. and if you bitch about that comment i'm going to just ignore you.) to do what everyone else thought impossible. then that same tactic was used against them: the british, americans and canadians, on may 6 1942, landed more men on the beaches than the germans knew how to handle. was that fair? no. the germans on those beach heads had hardly a chance.

next, the vietnam war. a highly trained massive army? versus some back-water tribal communists. in a war that many people still wonder how we got away with fighting. the odds here tipped in americas favor in every way: so what did the VC do? they improvised and didn't fight fair. most people have heard of punji sticks, the vc used them to great effect, along with literally hundreds of typs of other traps (everything from planting american-style lighters filled with c-4 on dead american bodies, to explosive ammunition that would destroy an american gun when it was fired, to filing the pins on grenades, to setting landmines, the list goes on and on). the other thing they did was to dig an enourmous tunnel network, hundreds of miles long, stories deep, that was ALSO rigged: excrement covered punji sticks, poisonous animals trapped in certain areas, disguised pits, and the added knowledge of where you were if you went in with a flash light. its from these holes that the 'men in the black pajamas' emerged at night, striking the light-drunk american soldiers before they knew what had happened (point of fact: the human eye, after forty-five minutes of total darkness, is roughly 4000 times as efficient in gathering light as it normally would be, so even on a moonless night under the jungle trees, the starlight would be bright enough).

now, those examples given, i don't see what everyone is complaining about, unless you think of fair as 'walk twenty paces, turn and fire'. combat isn't a duel, you bring a weapon to combat to tilt the odds in your favor. in a street fight? bring a knife. in a knife fight? bring a gun. in a gun fight? call for artillery. if you're being shelled? scatter to the wind and let them go to hell trying to find you. this 'fair' mentality is, in my oppinion, nothing more than a bunch of shit. complaining about n00b cannons doesn't make any sense either. even the navy seals can still get shot by a twelve year old kid with a bolt-action, if they aren't careful: they're the n00b, not you, stop bitching because you did something stupid that let them wound or kill you.
 
Choscura said:
you people say you don't like realism, because it isn't fair. i say thats quite a bit of bullshit. theres always SOMETHING you can do to tilt the odds in your favor.
Click to expand...
Another example: Alvin York. This guy was a badass. Google it if you don't know who he is, because I'd probably screw up the story.
 
while I agree that there are always tactics to counteract other's advantages. Since games are a toned down simplified representation of reality, your options are much more limited.

Allow me to give an example

in Desert Combat the popular bf1942 mod. There is a weapon called the VSS vintorez for the Iraqi side. The Iraqi special ops players recieved it as their main gun on the infantry maps. This gun had a scope, did the damage of a sniper rifle, was suppressed, and fired faster than any other weapon in the game. Its only real disadvantage was that it only had a 10 bullet mag.

However the biggest problem was that most battles in infantry maps featured lots of cover in the way of buildings and shrubs, plus the US wepons tended to do less damage and were more accurate.

What ended up happening was that alot of the time, you would see half of the Iraqi team using the VSS. The VSS being what it was could kill you faster than any other assault rifle. It also made being an engineer suck in an extreme manner because unless you killed the VSSer in your opening shot, you would be dead before the next.

The American teams lost a disproportionate amount of times due to this.

That was a n00bcannon
 
Choscura, I really enjoyed your "rant" so to speak, very informative. I can see where you're coming from. And geez people, if this guy wants to give his opinion, he doesn't deserve to be friggin rapped 12 ways from sunday because he has a certain view point. I agree with you, I really wish FPS games were more accurate and displayed weapons accurately. I know very little about real-life guns, but I'm always willing to learn. I paintball a lot, and it really sucks major when my gun jams...like you said, usually right when I need it (yeah i know, I have a pretty crappy gun).

IRT everyone talking about how they "play games to get away from reality", sorry guys but that is escapism and that is not a good habit. I play games because they are fun, not to get away from problems. I take care of my shit first, then play. Also, I enjoy a challenge from a game, and I think guns/equipment behaving realistically would be a huge benefit. If i want mindless entertainment (just shooting everythign in sight), I'll just play halo or doom3.

Choscura, try out America's army, probably the most realistic FPS on the market. It's a free download and if you don't have broadband they'll send you a disc. I really enjoy it.
 
If you want an accurate "Military Simulation," check out Operation Flashpoint, or if you got the money you can buy VBS1, which is used by the USMC and the ADF for training purposes.

Need I say more?

I have played flashpoint since its release in 2001 and the mods have made this game comparible to all but the latest games on the shelf.
 
i feel sorry for the tree huggers.. they'll get shot before they can come close enough to hug
Click to expand...

Why are you under the impression that if you have guns, you'll be safer, or better yet, why do you believe sho much that murderous people are out to get you? Paranoia?

Why is it that America, the country with some of the most relaxed weapon policies has one of (if not) the biggest numbers of people shot each year? Despite of all the added protection of all those guns?


you people say you don't like realism, because it isn't fair. i say thats quite a bit of bullshit. theres always SOMETHING you can do to tilt the odds in your favor
Click to expand...


Umm, ok, but just to tell you something in advance, games aren't real, there is no way that a modder can possibly plot each and every course of action that any player will take. It is impossible to create infinite strategies and even harder to balance them all.

In your example, with Vietnam, the VC were smarter, more ingenious and had an overall better cause (please don't even mention the domino theory). Now, what I'm saying is that it is impossible to emulate these kind of things in a game, after all, neccesity leads to innovation..
 
what has that got to do with anything? this isn't about hunting. its not about gun policy. its not about tree huggers or gun nuts or any of those things. its about mods and games, and how- in my oppinion- they could be better. i don't CARE how dumb you think guns are. they're there, and they're the basis of most-if not all- modern, post modern, and futuristic fighting games. the ONLY thing i care about is bringing realism to these games. no, its not impossible. yes it should be enjoyable, but when your as cynical as many people i know, suspension of disbelief gets harder and harder. i have a hard time enjoying games where the pretenses are so outrageous that i can't bring myself to be led along by the plot. there are exception, but the general rule is me thinking 'wow, this is so stupid. this would never happen in a real world where the laws of physics apply.' THAT is why i like realistic games. THAT, above anything else, is why i was bitching. half life 2 is one of the (rare) exceptions: valve did a very kickass job on this, and showed up everyone who said it was impossible. as short as it was, we now know we can do it. so don't anyone give me any more shit about 'doing the impossible'. i also think that, instead of having linear plots, more games should have sandbox environments:its entirely possible to have a good story in a sandbox. just look at the gta games (not the best of stories, admittedly, but still a very good standard nonetheless). also, in one of the posts, somebody pointed out the VSS as the ultimate n00b cannon. again i have to bitch about realism: the VSS, as many people know it, is simply a silence ak-47: not terribly accurate, but quiet and reliable. the scope normally wouldn't be there. the only concession to special forces would be a folding stock and perhaps a grenade launcher beneath the barrel.
 
Got any modding experience, Choscura? If not, I have a suggestion you might be quite interested in.
 
shadow6899 said:
all imma say on this topic is that i feel sad for the people who dont like guns and are against them.... soon we will all need a gun probably. mean think about it, shit is gettin worse every day and it isn't letting up. people who dont have a gun, or at least dont know how to take care of one are going to suffer D:
Click to expand...


No.... that's just in America.
 
Kapitan Helion said:
Its a frikkin game!... Not some military training program
Click to expand...

Americas Army is a Military training game
 
tCh said:
Americas Army is a Military training game
Click to expand...


It's actually a stripped down version of a military training game (you know, all the top secret stuff taken out) and more of a propaganda/recruiting programme.
 
Remember Real War? THAT was a real war strategy training game. And boy, was it BORING.
 
It's actually a stripped down version of a military training game (you know, all the top secret stuff taken out) and more of a propaganda/recruiting programme.

Pretty much... they figured out gamers playing it are around ideal recruitment age

Yea i want MORE realism in weapons and violence in games... now maybe we can miss a detail or two on a gun and concentrate more on the war enviroment, something this is really lacking in todays sterilized video games.

http://channels.lockergnome.com/game/archives/20041202_want_to_fight_in_fallujah.phtml

I want to be able to hear the screams when i'm playing "falluah, the video game" as heard from the neighbors as their gets hit by a missle. Well, they probably won't include that part *rollseyes

****ing clouded and ridiculous country we live in sometimes i swear
 
CriYam said:
I love realistic games, I don't like doom spray and pray type games.

I'll tell you what works for me, if I don't like a certain type of mod, I won't download it and play it. try that.
Click to expand...

have you played operation flashpoint perhaps? a realism's dream come true in my opinion.

For me, I like both types of games, but being 'immersed' in a game makes it all the more enjoyable, and realism does that for me. (just as long as it doesnt go to far).
 
Kapitan Helion said:
Woah sicko!....

Ps. Yeah i hate hunters too... Bloody bastards :p...
Click to expand...
Oh, you troublemaker, you...
 
He_Who_Is_Steve said:
Got any modding experience, Choscura? If not, I have a suggestion you might be quite interested in.
Click to expand...

i have some, but its all been very limited: changing skins, names, the occasional class type, etc. pervert that i am (and was) i modded the shard gun in the original unreal to shoot dildoes: a simple name change and a new skin. other than that, i'm in the game design program at ITT: hopefully its not entirely worthless, but i don't know since there haven't been any graduates from that program yet.
 
Choscura said:
i have some, but its all been very limited: changing skins, names, the occasional class type, etc. pervert that i am (and was) i modded the shard gun in the original unreal to shoot dildoes: a simple name change and a new skin. other than that, i'm in the game design program at ITT: hopefully its not entirely worthless, but i don't know since there haven't been any graduates from that program yet.
Click to expand...
Uh-huh. Well, here's my idea, dude.

I'm sure there are a lot of modders out there (possibly some in this forum) that are interested in doing a realistic mod like you have described, but lack your knowledge and passion for realism. SO...perhaps you should offer your services as a sort of "realism consultant", simply giving advice on all the stuff you've mentioned. How's that sound?
 
As you may know I'm the hated deer hunter. I read that story about shooting deer from you home pc. That's about stupidest thing I've ever heard. That guy is not a hunter, he's a greedy bastard. I hope things like that never happen. Truthfully I'm more of a bow hunter than a rifle hunter. I went for 4 years before I shot my first deer. Yeah, that put's me in the category of the sick sadistic killer. I just enjoy sitting in the woods. Since I started hunting I've seen 4 moose, 3 timber wolves,otters,beaver,mink,eagles, every kind of animal that is in Minnesota.
One time I was hunting in a field. It was starting to get dark and I saw 2 deer run by about 50 yards away. I was bowhunting so they were to far away to try to shoot. They kept looking over their shoulders at something in the woods. They went into the middle of the field and you could tell they were fidgity and nervous. Then I heard some noise right behind the tree I was sitting in. I turned around slowly and saw the biggest timber wolf I have ever seen. He was stalking the deer and didn't know I was there.He slowly made his way into the field after the deer.Man my heart was pounding, he had been 15 feet away from the tree I was sitting in! I watched him make his way towards the deer, when out of the corner of my eye I see another wolf following him. They go about 20 yards into the field and they both laid down at the same time. After about a minute they started army crawling towards the deer. I never knew that wolves crawled like that. It was so cool to watch. Better than anything I've ever seen on the discovery channel. The deer must have winded them and took off running.
That's what I like about hunting. If I get a deer that's a bonus but it's not the only reason I'm out there.
 
jpman said:
As you may know I'm the hated deer hunter. I read that story about shooting deer from you home pc. That's about stupidest thing I've ever heard. That guy is not a hunter, he's a greedy bastard. I hope things like that never happen. Truthfully I'm more of a bow hunter than a rifle hunter.
Click to expand...
It's not really hunting unless you kill 'em with your bare hands. Or, at most, a sharp stick.
 
He_Who_Is_Steve said:
It's not really hunting unless you kill 'em with your bare hands. Or, at most, a sharp stick.
Click to expand...

with that logic, we as a species would have died out a long time ago.

the first person to say that would have been good should remember that i see you as small, tasty, and crunchy like bacon.
 
I notice we have a good amount of people here who support gun control.

If you are like me, you must feel like there is nothing you can do while innocent people are gunned down in the streets every day, just because a bunch of rednecks want to own assault rifles. But now there is something you can do.

Please donate to http://www.assaultweaponwatch.com they are on the front lines of the war against the civilian ownership of firearms. Remember, every dollar counts.
 
A good example is combat flight sims. People think half an hour plus sorties are long, huh, wait till you see the reaction on their face that their mission will last about at least 2 hours usually in real life, and most of it is just water flying (assuming you're taking off a carrier). Now consider the inbound, and missions over 3 hours, with double re-fuels, aren't unheard of.
 
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