Need help with new dual core CPU...

Sir Phoenixx

Sir Phoenixx

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I just upgraded from my Opteron 144 to a Athlon x2 3800 Toledo and it randomly freezes on the login screen. About every other time I get to the Windows XP welcome/login screen it freezes after a few seconds, and I have to reboot. It'll work perfectly once or twice, then I have to reboot 2 to 3 times before it'll work again.

After I first installed the processor, the bios recognized it correctly, no errors, went into Windows XP perfectly, it saw the new dual core CPU, automatically switched to "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" and installed the default drivers. After that it started the freezing at login screen, so I had to go into safe mode and I tried downloading the AMD dual core drivers, and optomizer, after them I noticed it was only freezing randomly.

Right now I have the optomizer uninstalled, with just the dual core drivers installed. It goes into safe mode perfectly everytime, so I'm pretty sure it's a driver problem.

I have Windows XP SP2. My motherboard is an ASUS A8N5X s939 (nforce4), which worked perfectly with my single core Opteron 144. My bios was 1003 beta, I tried flashing my bios back to 902, didn't help, then I flashed it back.
 
You didn't re-format after putting your new CPU in, did you. You need to. Also, follow THIS exactly for best performance with a dual core AMD BEFORE re-formatting.

OK, I couldn't find the link, but here is what I saved as a file on my HD (not my work):


IN ORDER:

Physically install the CPU.
...unless you already have a CPU in the planned mainboard. If so, flash the BIOS first, then install the CPU.
It only fits one way. AMD has recently allowed the use of Arctic Silver 5 instead of the stuff found pre-placed on the bottom of your heatsink, so I highly suggest using it. Clean off the old stuff with rubbing alcohol if this is what you want to do. Don't use too much, maybe a half-pea sized amount in the center. Make sure the heatsink is secure.

Flash your mainboard BIOS to the latest version.
This is much easier if you are upgrading to an dual-core because you can do it in Windows with your old CPU. However, if the dual-core is the first thing in the board, you will have to flash the BIOS with a bootable CD or floppy. Latest revision BIOS also helps with making sure your new Opteron is detected properly.
Visit the website of your mainboard manufacturer to learn more about flashing BIOS. DFI-Street is a good place to go if you own a DFI board.

Reformat your Windows partition, or install Windows to a fresh partition. EDIT: I have been told by a couple that this is not necessary. While I disagree, you may not. If you MUST keep your install, then try it... but if you run into problems, reformatting should be your next step.
Don't try to save all your FreeCell high scores, it is necessary to reinstall Windows to get the second core recognized.
I also highly recommend a program called nLite to make a custom-stripped version of Windows, which will help you to avoid the next two steps.

Install Service Pack 2 if not included on your Windows CD.
Does not help you directly with the dual-core issues, but it doesn't hurt either. Can be integrated to your non-SP2 copy of XP with nLite.

Perform a WindowsUpdate, or download some sort of update pack.
I prefer to integrate an update pack with nLite, such as RyanVM's Update Pack.

Install the XP SP2 Dual-Core Hotfix
Download the hotfix here. After installing, restart. EDIT: This does not run on x64. Currently researching whether it is needed. I will still be modifying the registry though.
Go to Start, Run. Type regedit and push OK. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager. Right-click Session Manager and do New, Key. Type Throttle for the name. Right-click New, DWORD Value. Type PerfEnablePackageIdle for the name. Right-click PerfEnablePackageIdle and click Modify. In the Value data box, enter '1' (without quotes, default is most likely '0'); make sure Hexadecimal is selected and push OK. Close the registry editor.
IPB Image


Install mainboard drivers.
Get the chipset drivers themselves (example: NForce4, www.nvidia.com), go to the manufacturer's website for a download, or if all else fails, use the CD that came with the board.

Install the X2 driver.
Here. This is necessary and often overlooked.

Finish driver/program installation.
I prefer from here to install video drivers, then sound drivers, then my programs, but this has nothing to do with dual-coreness.

POST-INSTALL:

Verify dual-core action.
Right click My Computer, and click Properties. Click the Hardware tab, and then click the Device Manager button. Expand Processors... you should see not one, but two entries. This means everything is in order.
IPB Image

Set affinity for incompatible programs or personal preference.
For some older programs, it is best to have them run on only one core as this simulates a single-core environment. It is also user preference to have certain processes on certain cores. To do this, open Task Manager with [CTRL][ALT][Del]. Click the Processes tab. Right click the process you would like to modify, and select Set Affinity... (unfortunately one one at a time). Check the cores you would like the process to run on; by default both cores are checked meaning the process runs on both/either core. A process must run on at least one core. OK yourself out, and close Task Manager when finished. Settings must be reapplied after rebooting.
 
I have it running in single core mode (works) until I can find a fix. From what I read, it's some conflict with nforce4 drivers and dual core CPUs (and possibly having USB 2.0 enabled).
 
Again, I even said it recognizes it as a dual core CPU. The task manager shows both cores working. As I've already said, but apparently you didn't read or understand, there's a driver conflict somewhere that ONLY causes Windows to freeze at the welcome/login screen every other time, every other time it goes to Windows fine and Windows XP has no problem recognizing or using the second core. It doesn't freeze at all in safe mode.
 
OK kids settle down please.


Sir Phoenixx, you do know that when you replace CPU, you must reset Cmos right?

Did you do it?
 
No. Is that what the "Clear RTC Ram in CMOS" is? I'll try that later tonight. Doesn't resetting the CMOS just reset the BIOS to the default settings? Because it got reset to default settings after I tried flashing my BIOS to an earlier version (latest normal version) and then back to the beta version.
 
Lets not flame. It doesn't help. ;)
Take it to PMs.
 
Sir Phoenixx said:
No. Is that what the "Clear RTC Ram in CMOS" is? I'll try that later tonight. Doesn't resetting the CMOS just reset the BIOS to the default settings? Because it got reset to default settings after I tried flashing my BIOS to an earlier version (latest normal version) and then back to the beta version.
Click to expand...

OK, power down system, Take out the power cable to PSU, wait for 5 seconds to let system drain any leftover power, open case, ground yourself by touching medal object, look at the MB and locate the Cmos battery, take it out very carefully (Should be Zero force) motion when taking out battery, wait for 10-15 minutes, insert battery back into battery slot (Again zero force) motion, close case, put the power cable back into PSU, power up system, Set cmos time and date, set BIOS accordingly, hit F10 and yes (Enter) let system restart.

Keep me posted and lemme know if that worked for you.

Good Luck.
 
I don't think it's really an every other time thing now, after reinstalling the AMD dual core patch and optimizer again, it's either freezing within seconds of getting to the login screen like before, or within several minutes or more.

I reset the CMOS, went through the BIOS and put the settings back and started, but it didn't help any, still freezes.
 
Re-format. You should have done it when you installed the new CPU. Then follow the check-list. Your drivers are not functioning as they should, and won't until you re-format.

Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format. Re-format.
 
http://www.google.com/search?q=re-format
http://www.google.com/search?q=reformat

Reformatting is a last-ditch effort, I'm not going to waste my time with a reformat right now, especially since a lot of the people that I've seen with this problem with dual core CPUs have it when installing Windows XP for the first time. I'll only reformat if I get a second hard drive so I can just switch back quickly when it doesn't work.
 
Is your BIOS up to date?

Double check that, make sure BIOS is up to date.
 
Yeah it's the latest version on their site, 1003 beta. I've also tried the latest normal version, 902, but no luck.
 
I know with similar CPU lines you can switch out the Processor without issue but if it is different (more cores, cache different?) I usually play it safe with a fresh install.

If I was faced with an issue I would probably reinstall if I could rule out hardware and had put some good effort into tracking down the conflict but it still eludes me. hehe
There just comes a time when trouble shooting drivers etc becomes more of a hassle than a reinstall. And how much remains when ya change, uninstall and install a few times with different patches and drivers?

Try a repair install from the OS CD?
 
Did that. I actually had to, tried switching from ACPI Multiprocessor to the MPS Multiprocessor to see if that would help, but found out when my PC wouldn't boot that it's not supposed to be switched, so I had to do the repair and reinstall off of my XP CD, didn't help with the original problem any.
 
Have you tried removing your password and disabling the guest account so it just logs into your account to the desktop automatically when booting? You say the login screen is where it freezes.
 
Don't have a password, I use the "welcome" login screen, with the icons. And I've noticed that in dual core mode it doesn't just freeze at the login screen every other time like I previously assumed, it'll freeze at the login screen or any time after (anywhere from a couple minutes to 30 or so minutes).
 
Since it isn't always at the login screen and is more random, do you think it is a memory issue?

When you put the new CPU in, did the memory settings change at all in the bios? After all the memory controller is on the CPU. The CPUs may have different memory ratios or dividers used.

Grab CPU-Z if you don't already have it. If you want you put up a few screen shots showing the cpu and memory tabs. Maybe host at imageshack.
 
I reset the settings to default in the BIOS before installing the new CPU.

cpudy8.jpg
 
Just wondering but why is it running in single channel mode? The A8N5X supports dual channel memory. Have the sticks in the wrong slots?
 
Stucco said:
You didn't re-format after putting your new CPU in, did you. You need to. Also, follow THIS exactly for best performance with a dual core AMD BEFORE re-formatting..
Click to expand...

No you don't. Windows will have a fit for some time detecting and installing new drivers for everything but after that's done you can install any additional drivers and your good to go. Not everyone wants to deal with boring arse windows installs.

Stucco said:
Re-format. You should have done it when you installed the new CPU. Then follow the check-list. Your drivers are not functioning as they should, and won't until you re-format.
Click to expand...

What part of PLUG AND PLAY don't you understand?. Windows can detect ALL hardware changes.
 
Asus said:
Just wondering but why is it running in single channel mode? The A8N5X supports dual channel memory. Have the sticks in the wrong slots?
Click to expand...

They're in the right slots (blue slots, 1 and 3). Apparently it depends on the RAM stick brand/model. Mine says in the manual that I have to have 4 of these sticks for dual channel, it doesn't support dual channel with only 2 sticks.
 
Yeah, it is possible to swap out a single core to dual core cpu without a hitch on the same windows install. But on the other hand, obviously something is hitching in this case.
Sir Phoenixx said:
They're in the right slots (blue slots, 1 and 3). Apparently it depends on the RAM stick brand/model. Mine says in the manual that I have to have 4 of these sticks for dual channel, it doesn't support dual channel with only 2 sticks.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make sense.
The online manual here doesn't say that. Although your sticks may be the issue with dual channel compatibly and your board. I doubt it is because you only have 2 sticks though. And those are the right slots you have them in. Running in dual channel mode would make it noticeably faster. That sorta sucks...
 
notsupportedca4.jpg


But I'll be getting an extra 2x512mb of these soon, so it doesn't matter.
 
Sir Phoenixx said:
notsupportedca4.jpg


But I'll be getting an extra 2x512mb of these soon, so it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Ah! I was thinking you were saying no matter the memory it won't support dual channel with only 2 sticks. I had started to read your post and had to leave my PC. When I got back I just read the last part and posted. I didn't connect the previous sentence. We are on the same page now. Glad you will have 2gb in dual channel mode soon. ;)

Wish you could figure out why your PC is freezing...
 
When I say single core mode, I mean I'm using the "/onecpu" switch in boot.ini... Is there any way to find out what drivers using "/onecpu" changes, loads, and/or disables, and what settings it sets?

edit: Or is there a way to have it automatically set the affinity of the system processes/windows/etc. to the first core at startup?
 
Sir Phoenixx said:
When I say single core mode, I mean I'm using the "/onecpu" switch in boot.ini... Is there any way to find out what drivers using "/onecpu" changes, loads, and/or disables, and what settings it sets?

edit: Or is there a way to have it automatically set the affinity of the system processes/windows/etc. to the first core at startup?
Click to expand...

There isn't any program out there which will disable a core IMHO. and most programs are single-thread programs; including recent games, which means: they will use only single core of your dual-core CPU.
If you launch the Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Del); and press the "Performance Tab" of the Task Manager menu; you will see that you have two physical CPU running side by side in the CPU Usage History Window.
You cannot manually assign OS which core to use, that's the job of the Windows System Resource Manager (WSRM) but you may do so in third-party apps.

Most of the time, and that's almost every time you install new CPU or hardware; windows and BIOS must recognize them and, you don't need to reinstall Windows.
I don't know whats going on with yar system Sir Phoenixx and, I don't know what else to tell ya.
Also whats with the single channel memory modules? I thought you had dual channel? The same reason why system wont recognize the dual channel modules could also be the same reason why system won't recognize the dual-core chip; outdated bad-flash corrupted BIOS or Plug N Play is selected in the BIOS or misconfigured BIOS.

Do it the hard-way and reinstall/repair system OS, tell us what happens.

Good Luck.
 
They're in single channel because my motherboard only supports this brand/model of RAM in dual channel if there's 4 sticks, it doesn't support dual channel with only 2 of this brand/model of RAM.

There's this program that I can add programs to so it will automatically set affinity: http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/05/28/getting_more_bang_out_of_your_dual_processing_buck/index.html

I'm determining which processes aren't causing it (the ones that also load into safe mode, and those that I already tested), and I'll add the ones that are left to automatically set affinity to the first core at startup with this program.
 
Nevermind that program, it has to start before the other processes/programs to do anything. I found "imagecfg.exe" made by Microsoft, I can set affinity for a program permanently (instead of having to set it every time it starts with the Task Manager): http://www.robpol86.com/Pages/imagecfg.php
 
Why are you wanting to set affinity rather than letting the Windows API or AMD optimizer do their thing?
 
I'm thinking there's some program/process that starts with Windows that doesn't work good with two cores, so I'm trying to find what it is and set it to use one core.
 
I think I may have finally found what was causing this.. So I screw up my sound card drivers by using Driver Cleaner Pro after uninstalling the sound card drivers to test it, but DCP deletes the wrong files or something (told it to clear "Creative Audio" drivers or whatever), and can't completely reinstall it...

So I decide to back up my files and do a reformat and reinstall, since I've already tried everything else and my sound card drivers are screwed up, reformatting and reinstalling Windows XP takes about 2 hours. I install nforce4 drivers, AMD Dual Core drivers, optimizer, DSL modem drivers, etc. I rebooted once or twice between each one, and was in dual core mode the whole time, had the PC on for a few hours, and it ran perfectly with no freezing... Until I installed the 93.71 forceware drivers, froze within a couple minutes after installing them and rebooting, I uninstalled the Forceware drivers in safe mode and reboot, and it didn't freeze.

I got the Forceware 93.71 drivers from Guru3d.com, the modified download size one, so I'm going to try the official 93.71 drivers from nvidia.com now. If it's a problem with 93.71 itself, what's the best Forceware version to get?

EDIT: So far it looks like it's Forcware 93.71 itself that's causing the problem. I just installed the official drivers, and it froze after reboot. I went into safe mode and uninstalled them and tried again in normal mode and it hasn't frozen yet.
 
Sir Phoenixx said:
Again, I even said it recognizes it as a dual core CPU. The task manager shows both cores working. As I've already said, but apparently you didn't read or understand, there's a driver conflict somewhere that ONLY causes Windows to freeze at the welcome/login screen every other time, every other time it goes to Windows fine and Windows XP has no problem recognizing or using the second core. It doesn't freeze at all in safe mode.
Click to expand...

Why do people that think they know a lot about computers have to be such assholes. I mean really dude, wtf is your problem, I see this kind of attitude from a lot of people in this industry, all he was trying to do was help you. And actually it turns out he was right, you were wrong:

Kyo said:
What part of PLUG AND PLAY don't you understand?. Windows can detect ALL hardware changes.
Click to expand...

Plug and play does not apply to chipset and CPU drivers, there is no such thing as a plug and play CPU or motherboard. Any time you replace a CPU, especially when you switch chipsets or you switch from a single to a dual core, you need to reinstall windows to work with the new chip or CPU. Eventhough in this case he was still using socket 939 windows was not originally configured to use 2 cores so it would crash. Don't believe me? If you have 2 different computers swap the hard drives on them and see what happens.

Forcware might also be causing problems for you but you would have had the same issue if you simply uninstalled them without reformating the drive. So Sir Phoenixx, do people like me, who are sick of this know it all attitude from people that think they know everything about computers, a favor and stop being such a dick. :cheers:
 
Yeah, I'll go ahead and ignore that since you don't know what went on in this thread that got deleted/edited by Asus.

Basically, he attacked me, saying I'm a waste of oxygen and food among a lot of other insanely unecessary things just for saying "I have it running in single core mode (works) until I can find a fix.", it went on until Asus deleted and edited the flaming out. You can ask Asus.
 
Sir Phoenixx said:
Yeah, I'll go ahead and ignore that since you don't know what went on in this thread that got deleted/edited by Asus.

Basically, he attacked me, saying I'm a waste of oxygen and food among a lot of other insanely unecessary things just for saying "I have it running in single core mode (works) until I can find a fix.", it went on until Asus deleted and edited the flaming out. You can ask Asus.
Click to expand...

In that case my apologies. I saw that asus edited your post but didn't edit his so I figured you were being an ass, I guess it turns out I'm the ass.

But I'm sure you know what I mean when I say there are too many know it alls in this industry. If you don't go into your local PC parts store :upstare:.
 
Yeah, no problem. That post just happened to have enough information in it for him to not completely delete it, he deleted all the other posts.
 
Yeah I read the thread before the edit. Your insults would fit perfectly towards stucco. He was being an asshole and turned out to be wrong. Phoenixx is a nice guy :)
 
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