New Abu Ghraib abuse pics surface

The human capability for good, and betterment goes out the window when societies are taught and encouraged to give into the primative drive's, pivoting the whole social function around selfish desire and greed is bound to breed corruption.
 
CptStern said:
.what's on the images that the US doesnt want the public to see?
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Probably dead bodies... :|
During war im sure these crimes occur everywhere. There are loads of books by psychologists trying to figure out where the "Stress of combat" leads to insanity and warcrimes.
Its hard for us to judge these kinds of behaviors sitting behind the pc drinking some beers safely at home. ;)

O, btw, I meant news in general. I havent seen those pictures before, but im sure the media will parade them, like they do lately with all this kind of stuff...

You used to hardly see western media showing dead bodies on TV or parading them around in crowds.
White sheets as much as possible. Just show a picture of the deceased and inform he/she = dead and why.
Why now the world is changing i dont know, but on Al Jazeera you allready see em all day long in full gore and glory.
Crowds of muslims parading dead children and civilians through the streets, it makes me sick..
Maybe they've hardened over the years of ill-treatment and war, but to me its just sick to see it, and we should censor it instead of copy Al Jazeera.

Ban Al Jazeera from the west or force them to censor their stuff when broadcasting to countries in the west.
To me its crossing the line of what to show, and what not to show.

The western media now slowly takes this footage and starts to show some of it, in an attempt to "shock" their audience..
Now that i think of it, i havent seen US citizens parading dead ppl from 9/11 around in crowds for the camera's to see. White sheets cover the bodies asap and they are carried away. Respect the dead and their families..

Its a shame war is no longer about armies, its about the media. So perhaps in the future the west will also start this "ogrish.com battle", for 1 thing "certain people with certain agenda's figured out" its far far more disturbing to see dead civies, then dead soldiers-> no matter what the civies were doing or why they were killed...
Thats why in modern wars, there is hardly a line between soldier/civilian anymore :(

I hope media in general doesnt take this disturbing road, and lower itself to these barbaric ways, for the results are; "society gets immune" to the material....

But im going WAY offtopic here, hehe :p sorry :smoking:
 
I'm sure there is worse torture being done then the stuff described in that article. Many soldiers go through this each year in SERE. Perhaps thats why the military don't view it with the same eye that civilians do.
 
You used to hardly see western media showing dead bodies on TV or parading them around in crowds.
White sheets as much as possible. Just show a picture of the deceased and inform he/she = dead and why.
Why now the world is changing i dont know, but on Al Jazeera you allready see em all day long in full gore and glory.
Crowds of muslims parading dead children and civilians through the streets, it makes me sick..
Maybe they've hardened over the years of ill-treatment and war, but to me its just sick to see it, and we should censor it instead of copy Al Jazeera.
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From "The unseen gulf war"
I arrived at the "mile of death" the morning the day the war stopped. It was very early in the morning and few other journalists were present. When I arrived at the scene of this incredible carnage, strewn all over on this mile stretch were cars and trucks with wheels still turning, radios still playing, and there were bodies scattered along the road. Many people have asked the question "how many people died" during the war with Iraq and the question has never been well answered. That first morning, I saw and photographed a U.S. Military 'graves detail' bury in large graves many bodies.

I don't recall seeing many television images of the human consequences of this scene, or for that matter many photographs published. A day later, I came across another scene on an obscure road further north and to the east where, in the middle of the desert, I found a convoy of lorries transporting Iraqi soldiers back to Baghdad, where clearly massive fire power had been dropped and everyone in sight had been carbonized. Most of the photographs I made of this scene have never been published anywhere and this has always troubled me.

As we approach the distinct possibility of another war, a thought comes to mind. The photographs that I made do not, in themselves, represent any personal political judgment or point of view with respect to the politics and the right or wrong of the first Gulf War. What they do represent is a part of a more accurate picture of what really does happen in war. I feel it is important and that citizens have the right to see these images. This is not to communicate my point of view, but so viewers as citizens can be offered a better opportunity to consider the whole picture and consequences of that war and any war. I feel that it is part of my role as a photojournalist to offer the viewer the opportunity to draw from as much information as possible, and develop his or her own judgment.
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source
 
CptStern said:
ah here it is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

even has some of pics too ..still I can understand the theories behind it but there's still part of me that believes that man is intrinsically good and at some point morlity has to come into play ...I guess even in the case of the abu-gharib abuse because there was a whistleblower
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Another experiment which I think has some value for the current treatment of enemy soldiers/combatants is the Zimbardo Stanford Prison Experiment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Prison_Experiment
 
btw that's from the first gulf war

Ome_Vince said:
I dont see that stuff on the news...
"digital journalist" says enough :)
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of course you dont but it happened

*warning graphic pics*

http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm

there's evidence they used a napalm like substance


here's testimony on what happened

http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-death.htm



here's a video clip showing the aftermath

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-593-3127/conflict_war/gulf_war/clip14


it's not the first such incident ..a more barbaric example is when coalition forces buried hundreds if not thousands of iraqi soldiers alive

http://www.comw.org/pda/0310rm8ap2.html#4. Buried alive: 1st Division breeching

they even defended burying the iraqis alive saying a gap in international law made it permissable

http://jeff.paterson.net/aw/aw4_buried_alive.htm



kaf11: that's horrible
 
I dont see that stuff on the news...
"digital journalist" says enough
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Yes, I realise that you you didnt see "that stuff" on the news, that was the point of that quote.
You complain that the media is using shock tactics, but the point is that people need the evidence of their own eyes, to see the real horrors that the decisions of their leaders are inflicting on others.

As they say, " a picture is worth a thousand words" .
 
they also say "nothing lies more than a picture"...
A single picture/video can be pulled out of perspective, and used to tell a totally different story..

Look, my post was that i oppose seeing corpses on TV, and that i hope the western media isnt going to turn into Al Jazeera who loves to parade the dead all over the news for their own personal agenda.

Yes shocking ppl to "realize" is great, but to "realize what"? That war = sux?
I can understand the morale message here, and part of me agree's but i dont see the media as morale.
they all serve their own agenda's and show what THEY like.
Certain things are enhanced and shown in detail, and others forgotten..
Example: lets show dead bodies from BOTH sides, lets also show the horrors of 9/11, lets show the blown up women and children up close of the Madrid bombing.
Lets show the dead civilians who were just minding there buisness in London, and got blown up. Lets see detail, lets shock ppl there!?
Lets show the gore, the horror of that! but no, we dont show that...
White sheets, remove the dead and respect them..

My point is only that i wish the news would stay censored and not turn into Al Jazeera's shock media with its own agenda.
Im sick of switching channels and seeing a mob in Palestina run around posing a dead child to the camera's.
Where's the Israeli's running around with their dead kids posing for the camera?
Are we now going to enter a "who can show the most shocking footage" contest to fight wars via the media?
All thats going to happen in the end, is you're making the public immune to this in the long run, not make them think twice about war.

Remember when the first pictures + video popped up on how african kids were starving? What do those images do to you today? hardly a thing, your used to it, and when the day comes that i get used to seeing child corpses is when i wonder how sick i + the world have actually become..
 
they also say "nothing lies more than a picture"...
A single picture/video can be pulled out of perspective, and used to tell a totally different story..
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Well, no they dont actually.
Google result for " a picture is worth a thousand words".................809,000
Google result for "nothing lies more than a picture" ....................zero.

Nit-picking aside, I get where youre coming from, I just happen to disagree.
You object to corpses on tv and so do I, but the alternative to showing the dead is bloodless "war-porn", impressive footage of military hardware with not a body in sight. In effect creating a victimless wargame, as in the footage in another thread, with the pilots last words as he surveys the death he has wreaked on the little dots of humanity; "oh dude" .
 
Right, that quote was a translation, hence the google turnup :)
Pictures do lie, as they dont show the actual situation, they are so easy to take out of its context, perhaps even "always out of context".
A picture indeed says more than a thousand words, but "what does it say?" is what im refering to.
Pictures make you assume, compare it to ppl that quote a single line from one of your posts. Then read that single line. You tell me the odds of that line being a credible reflection on what was said in the entire post?

Also, if Ogrish.com is where you wish us to go, then im stating we show ALL footage and pictures. Including the dirty massacres and slaughter done by the terrorists and opposing forces. Full up front, in the camera with all the gore and detail.
Not censor 1 side and show the other to shock. The media must then be objective and show all. And i doubt you'd like it when the media zooms in on blow-up footage of one of your family members, you'd wish for more dignity than that..
I also think you'd also not want your kids to see the 18:00 news and see dead bodies all over the place.
Its not black&white what im talking about, its just i wish we dont go into a media-shock war, have a little more dignity and think of the results of what your showing. 300 years ago seeing somebodies head getting chopped off in public wasnt so shocking -> happened regularly....

I think in 3 years, these images wont shock us anymore and be normal just like the starving african kiddies (one must wonder how sane that is)..
How will we tell the message then? What's the media got for us then to "up the shock-effect"?
 
Seriously, The US pretends to campaign for freedom and such, and then does this kind of s**t. Shame on them.
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No worse shame then the Insurgents. But don't think I'm excusing whats happening here. By far not, and this is much worse then were known for seeing.

Whats going on over there, and is any of this really effective?
 
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