New audio stuttering thread [keep stuttering discussion in here]

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GetCool

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Since the old thread was so lovingly closed by a moderator, I thought I'd start a new one in which we can continue our technical discussion of the problem. Please keep the discussion technical as opposed to statements of frustration, because the mods don't like such things and they start closing threads.

Anyway, I'll start with my most recent experiences. I recently upgraded from an ATi 9800 Pro to a nVidia 6800 GT, and my stuttering improved a lot but it is still there to some degree. I'm going to try a clean reinstall soon. I changed nothing else in my system, so in my case it seems to be video card related.

If anyone else has other thoughts on this post them here please.
 
right i got ac97 realtek 5.1 onboard sound. with wdm_366 drivers for it . someone say this solve stuttering in my case it doesn't

i can get it running without stuttering by turning off hardware acceleration to none for sound from control panel but when i reset computer the hardware acceleration is back up to full.

2.6ghz pentium 4
hercules radeon 9800xt 256mb
4.11 catalyst drivers

also please post what drivers u are running and sound and graphic cards please
 
If this thread turns into a bitchfest, I'll close it just like I did the last one.

GetCool, watch your sly comments
 
The Dark Elf said:
If this thread turns into a bitchfest, I'll close it just like I did the last one.
Click to expand...
Work okay for you then Elf?

Maybe you can help us with this simple test;

Run HL2 with '+showbudget' enabled from the console during the game. Do you get any spikes in the FPS graph or from disk activity as new content is loaded? I'm interested to see if people that can run the game okay still get small spikes as new material is loaded. I'm guessing this still happens but that your system can handle the on the fly loading okay & you don't notice any stuttering as a result.

It will be very interesting & usefull to see the results. So far we've not really heard from any people who can run the game okay other than to tell us to shut the f**k up & stop moaning! If the spiking is not happening then it begs the question (Again) why it's okay on some systems & not others (It's already very clear this has little to do with actual system specs). If it is happening on your system but it's not noticable then it's likely your system is for some reason handling the on-the-fly loading of data much more efficiently.

Cheers.
 
question:
does the SP 2 (service pack 2) help with the stuttering problem?
i tried nearly everything but then i remembered that i have only SP 1. did anyone fix the stuttering with SP 2?
but: "never touch a running system" (and i dont want to do everything new on my comp)

my system:
p4 3 hgz
1 gb ram
radeon 9800 pro 128 mb
5.1 soundsystem
creative sb live series (newest driver)
4.12 beta driver

i think i read something like
"... SP 2 required for 4.12 beta .."
@ all who solved problem with 4.12 beta driver:
do u have sp1 or 2?
 
pLzBeNiCe said:
question:
does the SP 2 (service pack 2) help with the stuttering problem?
i tried nearly everything but then i remembered that i have only SP 1. did anyone fix the stuttering with SP 2?
but: "never touch a running system" (and i dont want to do everything new on my comp)

my system:
p4 3 hgz
1 gb ram
radeon 9800 pro 128 mb
5.1 soundsystem
creative sb live series (newest driver)
4.12 beta driver

i think i read something like
"... SP 2 required for 4.12 beta .."
@ all who solved problem with 4.12 beta driver:
do u have sp1 or 2?
Click to expand...

I reformatted on a spare HDD with no windows updates and it was the same stuttering. My everyday HDD is fully windows updated and it's the same on that too.
 
The Dark Elf said:
If this thread turns into a bitchfest, I'll close it just like I did the last one.

GetCool, watch your sly comments
Click to expand...

egoist !
 
it stutters and I'm running it from a raptor 36 gig SATA with 1024 pc3200 ram; I think eventually the patch will rectify it.
 
dogboy73 said:
Work okay for you then Elf?

Maybe you can help us with this simple test;

Run HL2 with '+showbudget' enabled from the console during the game. Do you get any spikes in the FPS graph or from disk activity as new content is loaded? I'm interested to see if people that can run the game okay still get small spikes as new material is loaded. I'm guessing this still happens but that your system can handle the on the fly loading okay & you don't notice any stuttering as a result.

It will be very interesting & usefull to see the results. So far we've not really heard from any people who can run the game okay other than to tell us to shut the f**k up & stop moaning! If the spiking is not happening then it begs the question (Again) why it's okay on some systems & not others (It's already very clear this has little to do with actual system specs). If it is happening on your system but it's not noticable then it's likely your system is for some reason handling the on-the-fly loading of data much more efficiently.

Cheers.
Click to expand...


I'll give it a shot after the football game today. I'll even record a demo and email it to you if you'd like... Sure would be great if we somehow could all submit demos of the game. It's tough for me to figure out how subjective the stuttering problem is for everyone. Regardless, I'll get on that demo later so you can at least monitor the graph information in my game.
 
Someone in the old thread had mentioned something about set mat preloadshader. Does anyone know what the correct syntax is for this command?
 
I have audio stuttering on two computers with very different specs:

(1) Apollo
AMD FX-53/Asus A8V/2x512Mb PC3200/BFG 6800 Ultra OC/Audigy2/Logitech Z5300 5.1 speakers
Forceware 66.93
Windows XP Pro SP1/Norton Antivirus 2004 Pro
HL2 Collectors Edition DVD

(2) Maximus2004
AMD XP3000+/Asus A7V600-X/2x512Mb 'PC2300' (166Mhz FSB)/ATI Radeon 9800 Pro/onboard sound (AC'97)/Altec Lansing stereo speakers
Catalyst 4.11
Windows 2000 Pro SP4/Norton Antivirus 2004 Pro
HL2 'Alyx' Package

The game is still playable on both systems (and a lot of fun I might add). Since nVidia drivers have been blamed (among 100 other things) I'm thinking about swapping the ATI 9800 out of Max and trying it in Apollo to see if anything changes. It is clear that this problem runs very deep and I'm in favor of Valve spending quality time (i.e. weeks) to determine and fix the root cause. If the problem was "texture swapping" as was suggested then I would expect it to be worse on slower CPUs since they take longer to move the textures. I don't see this pattern in the reports or in my own experience. The memory bandwidth on Apollo is about twice that of Max but the audio stuttering is about the same.
 
mongoloido said:
I'll give it a shot after the football game today. I'll even record a demo and email it to you if you'd like... Sure would be great if we somehow could all submit demos of the game. It's tough for me to figure out how subjective the stuttering problem is for everyone. Regardless, I'll get on that demo later so you can at least monitor the graph information in my game.
Click to expand...
So your game runs smoothly? That would be great if you could do those tests. How about you just take a few screenshots with the Showbudget tool running? A video might end up a bit big file size wise .......... Although it would be a small miracle to actually see this game running smoothly :thumbs: Maybe try if you don't mind doing it & see how big the file turns out. (How will you make it BTW?)

We will try to use the same area for screenshots as a control. Let's say the bit in the station where the guard forces you to pick up the can & maybe the first area with the combine guard pushing the passenger into his luggage. Sections like that proof particularly problematic for me & most other people experiencing the dreaded 'stutter'! It will be interesting to see what showbudget shows up on a system running the game smoothly.
 
not sure if I have the same stutering prob as other people, but I do have "a" stuttering problem. HL2 runs great for the most part. the only probs I have are when the game loads a new area. After the "loading" screen, its a crapshoot as to whether the game continues on fine or locks up with a looping sound that eventually hard locks my computer.

I think this might be different from your guys issue though because it seems as though opther people are reporting stuttering within the game itself, as in when you are actually moving around. I don;t have that problem, just the one where the game loads.

My rig is as follows:
P43ghz
P4c800 deluxe mobo
Audigy 2
1gb Ram
eVGA Geforce 6800 Ultra
latest nvidia drivers/audigy drivers.

When I get some time I'm going to reformat, re-download, and see if that helps.

Good luck with this you all.
 
I am on the Anticitizen mission and its horrible to play, i just wanna smash the cds through the window or something. I get constand lag, and by that i mean its so horrible every time i new enemy, a sound or whenever i come to a new area the sound and game just lags every 2-3 seconds and i can bareley play this game. Like any other gamer i have no troubles for example playing doom3 at high settings.

Computer is tweaked like usual no prgs runnning in the background, nada.

and i doubt a

xp3200+
512 mb pc3200
leadtek 6800 128mb
Nforce2 sound
nvidia drivers from nvidia.com (latest).

This SUCKS VALVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Closing that other stuttering thread was completely irresponsible.

Mod, you could have simply deleted some of the bad posts instead of closing it as it was a valuable account of the scale of people having these problems.
 
I think he closed the thread because there was a lot of bitching going on. While I think we have good cause to moan it's not really getting us anywhere so in the interest of sorting this problem or at least trying to gather as much info as possible I think we should keep it 'bitch' free.

All the latest here including an update on the recent 'patch'.
http://www.blep.net/hl2stutter/
 
I don't know if this is true for anyone else, but I noticed the same stuttering characteristic with the Stress Test in Counterstrike: Source Beta some months ago.

Start the Stress Test the first time, it stutters at the start. Start it the second time, it's smooth as can be. It may still be true of the Stress Test now.

My point is that this issue that the first time it loads something Source stutters -- then it is smooth after -- has been around for a while now.

Valve's Stress Test should have involved a full simulation of the demands Source would face with HL2, not just the hints that the Stress Test gives.
 
Closing threads....nice. Is this how we "solve" the stuttering issue?

Amazing the thread is gone but my game still stutters.... :rolleyes:
 
dogboy73 said:
I think he closed the thread because there was a lot of bitching going on. While I think we have good cause to moan it's not really getting us anywhere so in the interest of sorting this problem or at least trying to gather as much info as possible I think we should keep it 'bitch' free.
Click to expand...
Well said. We also need to prevent this thread from being closed again, so in the interest of technical discussion and troubleshooting, lets keep it on track. Also, I'm just as frustrated over the forum moderation as the rest of you, but I'm going to just keep my mouth shut about all of it. I think we should all concentrate on the topic at hand.
 
dogboy73 said:
I think he closed the thread because there was a lot of bitching going on. While I think we have good cause to moan it's not really getting us anywhere so in the interest of sorting this problem or at least trying to gather as much info as possible I think we should keep it 'bitch' free.

All the latest here including an update on the recent 'patch'.
http://www.blep.net/hl2stutter/
Click to expand...

I agree. There is one bit of information in the blep.net update that needs to be mentioned. The fix in the "patch" of a few days ago is disabled on nVidia cards. So, that fix should have had no effect on nVidia users. The NEXT patch is supposed to be directed to nVidia users.
 
people look at shakycam of HL2&CS:S (when they show CS:S for the first time) in intro of HL2 (G-man) there was STUTTERING :eek:
and like they didnt know :rolleyes:
 
Dark Elf, while I can understand your frustration at all the whining, limiting our freedom of speech is not the solution; Besides it does serve a purpose… The more we raise our voices the faster Valve will respond with a second patch. Remember, to this day Valve has only acknowledged a problem affecting “a small number of users” and that “the sound stuttering is not indicative of a sound problem, sound stuttering is only a symptom of texture thrashing” which “this update will fix.” I think we have a consensus here that the patch did not eliminate the problem… and that it IS indicative of a sound problem most likely due to a minuscule sound cache of only 16MB.
 
NikolaX said:
people look at shakycam of HL2&CS:S (when they show CS:S for the first time) in intro of HL2 (G-man) there was STUTTERING :eek:
and like they didnt know :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I've been watching this myself earlier. There's definitely some stuttering in the demo that was shown at E3 2004. It's minimal but it's definitely there. In other words Valve knew that there was stuttering in this game. There can be no doubt about it. The stuttering in the demo is exactly the same problem that's in the actual game. If they didn't spot this then they need their eyes tested! You can hear it in the G-mans opening speech - "Lets just say that your hours has come a-ga-ga-gain".

Anyway, We're getting off track again here. I'm still curious as to why some & not others? It's not hardware specs so that leaves the game code. But that doesn't explain why some & not others. I'm convinced it's to do with the way individual systems handle data & I'm not talking about the speed of the CPU or the power of the gfx card but more about the way data is moved from one component to the next.

I'd still like to see some Showbudget displays of HL2 players who ARE NOT experiencing stuttering. Is the activity that causes the problem still evident? Come on, someone without problems come forward with some showbudget snapshots. We need to see if there is a sharp 'spike' in activity when for example the combine guard starts giving the passenger a hard time & then pushes him into the luggage
 
I posted in the origional stuttering thread and I will now post here because after patching...I still get the damn stuttering and no Valve, I don't have a GeForce card :p

My PC Specs:

AMD 64 3000+
512MB RAM
ATI Mobility 9600 64MB
VIA AC'97 Soundcard

The patch has 'changed' the stuttering, whenever the game loads (a save or a new section) the stuttering is far far worse than it was before. During gameplay the stuttering when entering a new area seems to have been drastically reduced but it now occurs throughout the whole playing time, it's especially annoying as it affects every bit of speech in the game.

After being initially amazed at seeing Half-Life2 running I am very dissapointed that valve still havn't solved the problem :(
 
Patched with a Price

My experience with the patch is very similar to Mark McWilliams' (the guy doing a great job keeping tabs on the problem with his blep.net website).

Quickie specs (P4 3.1c, 9800pro, Gig-O-Ram, Audigy LS) 2xAA, 2xAF. Water Reflections Medium, Rest set to high. 1024x768 resolution, 85hz. 5.1 SRS.

---

In areas where I previously had a 3-5 second load stutter, they've been greatly reduced. Some down to half a second. But Valve's patch comes with a heavy price. In my case a 20+ fps drop in certain areas. The intro with the G Man illustrates the contrast nicely. With mat_forcemanagedtextureintohardware turned off (pre patch conditions?) I average 50-70fps with a low point of 40 during the intro. But I still get the infamous stutter. When I turn this on the intro barely stutters at all. However it averages 35 fps with a low point of 20. To make matter worse whenever I get those nasty dips into the low 20's (which didn't happen at all before the patch) i start getting horrible audio feedback (pops, crackle etc) to go along with it. Ive corresponded with a couple X800XT users who've had similar audio feedback after the patch, only theres happend at a 40FPS threshold instead. Very odd.

So basically its a tradeoff. If I want the stuttering problem reduced to a mere nuisance I have to play the game with nearly half of it's performance in tact (and an audio bug at low framerates to boot). Thats not gonna work for me.

This wouldn't be so frustrating if Valve actually had some communication with their own community. All we want to know is the status of the problem, what they're working on and what progress they are making. Even if they're not making any progress at all, we deserve to know. If they're not going to be able to balance out these issues then I'd at least like to get word so I can get a refund. The game simply isn't playable in this state.
 
Has there been any word on when the patch for Nvidia users will be? I guess I still have hope :D
 
dogboy73 said:
Anyway, We're getting off track again here. I'm still curious as to why some & not others? It's not hardware specs so that leaves the game code. But that doesn't explain why some & not others. I'm convinced it's to do with the way individual systems handle data & I'm not talking about the speed of the CPU or the power of the gfx card but more about the way data is moved from one component to the next.

I'd still like to see some Showbudget displays of HL2 players who ARE NOT experiencing stuttering. Is the activity that causes the problem still evident? Come on, someone without problems come forward with some showbudget snapshots. We need to see if there is a sharp 'spike' in activity when for example the combine guard starts giving the passenger a hard time & then pushes him into the luggage
Click to expand...
I did some testing with this. I don't really have stuttering anymore; it's more like little "blips" - I'll be walking straight, and then something will happen that causes the game to freeze for a fraction of a second, and the sound will "pop" and then everything will be normal again. When this happens, I do observe spikes in the +showbudget window.

I recorded a demo, but I think it would be useless to you since a demo is not like a movie. I don't know how to accurately record what I am experiencing, because I can't use a utility like FRAPS without it affecting the performance of the game, and I can't take screenshots precisely enough to capture these little "blips."
 
This helped me considerably with the problem:

After digging arround a couple different threads and groups, i found some settings to play with. after tweaking them, the stuttering is greatly dimminished. What was once every minute or so of gameplay is now pretty much just on the first word when someone speaks and there's other things going on.

in the config.sys file in the hl2 folder, i changed to these settings:

cl_forcepreload "1"
sv_forcepreload "1"
snd_mixahead "0.45"

after changing to these settings, the stuttering decreased by a good %90, which is good enough to play it without wanting to throw my computer out the window. not a perfect fix, buuut... in the meantime, it might help others....

for the sake of it, here's my system:
AthlonXP 1700+, 256 ddr 2700, maxtor 7200 80gb 8mg buffer, SB Audigy (gamer), Radeon 9600xt (4.12 betas), MSI MS-6380 (kt3 ultra 2, i believe)

good luck to all :cheers:
 
forcepreload doesnt work for that many people,, it's been brought up repeatedly along with every other console command in existance
 
GetCool said:
I don't know how to accurately record what I am experiencing, because I can't use a utility like FRAPS without it affecting the performance of the game, and I can't take screenshots precisely enough to capture these little "blips."
Click to expand...
You can take screen shots when the problem occurs by hitting the 'F5' key. Everytime you hit F5 the current screen will be captured & stored in the HL2 folder (A folder will be created. I can't remeber exactly where it ends up). As soon as the 'blips' happen hit F5 you should capture the activity & certainly the spike on the FPS graph.

Saying that if your getting the blips it proofes nothing really. I've still yet to come across anyone who doesn't get any of this blipping, popping or stuttering at all. I'm sure that everyone is getting this to some degree but obviously many have deemed it acceptable & playable. I think all games suffer from this kind of thing to a degree but it's never been quite this bad on any game previously. I fired up Doom3 again earlier just to remind myself that it actually ran as smoothly as it did on my system. Smooth as silk. Not a hitch anywhere. It was quite impressive to look at again after enduring HL2's pitifull appearance. :rolleyes:

My plan is to wait until I've finished college this week on Wednesday & if Valve haven't said or done anything by then I'll try & HD format & re-install of XP & HL2 so theres nothing else on my system (apart from drivers of course). I'm curious to see if it will make any difference at all. I doubt it but what the hell - Be good to have another clean out!

Our only other salvation at this point is good old Mark McWilliams who's site at least seems to be keeping on top of what's going on.
http://www.blep.net/hl2stutter/
 
For the benefit of people new to this problem here are my autoexec.cfg settings:

cl_forcepreload "0" - I get better results off
sv_forcepreload "0" - This is a server side command so I doubt it does much
cl_smooth "0" -
snd_mixahead "0.4"
mod_forcedata "1"
snd_async_spew_blocking "1"
r_mmx "1"
r_3dnow "1"
r_sse "1"
mat_forcemanagedtexturesintohardware "0" - Patch = off
mod_forcedata "1"
cl_ragdoll_collide "1" - bodies physically react to each other when limp/dead
dsp_enhance_stereo "1"

r_fastzreject "1" - if you have a softmodded ati card that gives black column artifacts disabling fast Z clear in your drivers can get rid of them, but it does give you about a 5-10% loss in performance. I assume this cvar disables the game's use of that feature for optimal performance(if you don't have artifacts always leave fastz ON in your drivers)

violence_ablood "1" - extra gore
violence_agibs "1" - gibbable bodies
violence_hblood "1"
violence_hgibs "1"
lod_Enable "1"
mat_clipz "1"

Not all of these above tweaks are performance enhancers, some increase the visual quality and unlock some of the engines disabled capablities.

I still get stutters and have done ever since the day of release, but they are alot less noticeable with these tweaks for me...but probably not for everyone.

I have catalyst A.I disabled which also gave a noticeable difference which I cannot explain.

Anyone who has downloaded the official Catalyst drivers with CCC, really needs to get rid of CCC and install a 3rd party program like R3Dtweak if you want to get the most of your ati card, CCC is bloatware and it doesn't even offer half as many options as you could be getting with another program.

I get 110fps in the stress test on the Omega version of the 4.10s at 1024x768 all settings maxed except AA=0 AF=4 on a 9800SE Athlon Barton 2500+ @ (195*11), which is fine for me.

My advice to most people is to read up on tweaking and overclocking if you don't know much about it, and optimise your pc as best you can. This is just common sense of course, and it won't make the stuttering go away, but when it's finally solved (if Valve ever wake up) then at least you'll be getting the maximum performance you can get.
 
The Dark Elf said:
If this thread turns into a bitchfest, I'll close it just like I did the last one.

GetCool, watch your sly comments
Click to expand...

Then how about you not start something with "crying and banging your rattles"?

Typical abuse of mod power, that thread was a very helpful resource. I went from having a highly studdering, unplayable game to having one I could finish and enjoy thanks to that thread. It's the only reason I was signed up here. As it was said, I guess the way people fix things these days is by closing it and pretending it doesn't exist. Delete the posts, or suspend the accounts breaking rules if you'd like, but don't take it out on the thread.
 
efilflah, how do u get that autoexec.cfg file? I have to make it dont it?
What folder does it go in and how to i make it? Do just type it in notepad and rename it?
 
Yes you just make it in notepad.
When you've typed in all the values go to "save as"
Save it as:
"autoexec.cfg"
With the inverted commas.

C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\YOUR@EMAIL\half-life 2\hl2\cfg
 
"During gameplay the stuttering when entering a new area seems to have been drastically reduced but it now occurs throughout the whole playing time, it's especially annoying as it affects every bit of speech in the game."

I´m having same symptom. Yesterday I installed W2K but the problem remains.

AMD XP3000+, 1GB RAM, 160GB SATA HD, AC97 onboard, ATI9800 Pro.
Platform: Windows XPP +SP2

I have tried different resolutions, detail levels etc. etc. to no avail.

When indoors the game runs OK with occaisional stutter. But when I´m outdoors the game seems to be running in "stutter all the time mode".
 
Funny when i try thoose tweaks like

cl_forcepreload "1"
sv_forcepreload "1"
snd_mixahead "0.45

the game suddenly for no reason crashes, and idoubht it helps me anyway... we just have to wait for that nvidia fix for the users with the audio lag....
 
efilflah said:
Yes you just make it in notepad.
When you've typed in all the values go to "save as"
Save it as:
"autoexec.cfg"
With the inverted commas.

C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\YOUR@EMAIL\half-life 2\hl2\cfg
Click to expand...


Thanks mate
 
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