New Study: White People are RACIST

[Sulkdodds]

Obviously, but a lot of people take offense to it either way.

Well, they're wrong. Who cares about them?

 

[Darkside55]

Ok let's get one thing out of the way, and quickly. I CARE NOTHING FOR YOUR RESPECT. So to say to me, "I lose more respect for you with each reply you make," oh, well, jeez, I guess I'd better shut up then, because I so dearly value No Limit's respect. It would be a shame if my internet respect level were to drop because of the remarks I am making.

Are we clear on that? You can cut it out with those comments. I don't care. Like I said I don't even know you from anyone why on Earth would I value your respect?

Now then, about this:

So the way the media potrays black people makes discrimination against black people perfectly okay?

That wasn't why I was telling you to watch KRON. I was saying, "Watch the news," because some Black people, believe it or not, behave in a way that's detrimental to their public image. This is not the media's fault, believe it or not. You think the media is responsible for the way Bub Rubb acts? You best be joking. You think the media really put the words, "I think Asians and White people are racist because they make computers and computers are hard to use and that's why black people don't get jobs" in that one guy's mouth? That page was out of an Oakland paper IIRC.

Secondly, if you actually read the article you linked me to you would see that Black people perpetrate their own negative stereotypes. Growing up in an environment like that I saw firsthand the glorification of thug culture. One merely has to tune in to Wild 94.9 or Hot 106.1, then drive down the street with their windows down and the sound turned all the way up to see what I'm talking about. And what's it say in your article? Employers think Black people have the stereotype of being gangsters. Well, gee, it's not like the majority of their race is making any moves toward abolishing that stereotype. And before you get all, "How can he say that?" with me, please. You know I'm right. Other Black people know I'm right.

White people don't have this image. So yes, even if one has a criminal record, they might be more likely to get a job because the employer has a negative stereotype. But again, that's not in all cases. And if black people really wanted to fix this, they'd go about remaking their image in the public eye instead of standing around bitching about the white man and the jews from keeping them getting jobs.

About innocent black people getting killed: dude, shut up. You're embarrassing yourself. I never excused the police. Nor did I say I didn't like Black people. Goddamn wait a minute, what?

because you don't like black people

ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL?

So you're telling me...because I have black friends...and black family...I don't like black people. And I don't care if they're shot by the cops. No Limit are you stupid, dude? Am I arguing with a simpleton? Because Darkside does not like to waste his time arguing with fools. The further we go into this the more you seem the type who likes to jump to ridiculous conclusions and give out tired-ass arguments that should've been put to pasture years ago. Is this who I'm arguing with?

BTW, what is this:

If you lived in a black neighborhood and got picked on as a kid because you were white then whoop dee ****ing doo.

Conclusions. I don't look white. Obviously, you don't pay very good attention. In this very thread, Stern jokingly called me slant-eyed...do white people have slanted eyes? What race do you often associate with having slant eyes?

Secondly, did I, anywhere in my posts, allude to being picked on as a kid because of race? Of course kids are picked on. I got picked on and picked on others. Race, however, was never one of the reasons. Actually now that I think about it, that's kinda curious...but, no, wrong again.

Rather you've completely missed the point I was getting at: that point being that I, as well as several people I knew from my formative years, became successful and productive members of society despite location and circumstance. The point here was to illustrate to you that by saying, "THEY GREW UP SO HARD!" you're giving a cop out. You're setting up an excuse. Don't you realize that excuses like that are a BAD thing? It just makes people want to blame everything but themselves, always looking for some kind of escape.

Well that's a load of shit. You can be raised in a bad neighborhood and go to lower-class schools with the books all drawn in and falling apart and the teachers don't care and sometimes they hit you on the back of the head or lock you in a closet (goddamn I had some savage teachers), but you can still come out and go to work in SOMA.

When a white person makes a racist comment about blacks, for instance, there are hundreds of years of oppression and hatred that stand behind that comment. When a black person makes a discriminatory comment about whites, while it's certainly no better, it doesn't have the same historical backing. While the institution of slavery may have been long since abolished, and segregation is no longer written into law, oppression remains. Despite the great lengths that we've made, white people have stayed in power and held the privilege.

Right here though, you're making a disparity. Somehow white racism is worse than black racism because of history. That's such a load, Toast, I'm sorry. Racism is racism and should not be judged in context of what happened in the past.

Also the white man is entitled to his privilege. Please don't make excuses for racists among minorities by saying, "Well, white people are in a better position than them." I know you're not excusing racist behavior, but it sure sounds like pandering.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Hey, guys, cool it. Your remarks are getting a little...off colour?

EDIT: I didn't read your posts when I made this comment.

 

[Tyguy]

Ok. My position is that Hitler was right. Let the intellectual debate without insults start...go!

I'm sorry, but I just have a hard time being nice when someone says that the harrassment from police toward innocent blacks is perfectly okay. Maybe I'm just ****ing crazy, I dunno.

You don't have to be nice, but a good point always builds a stronger argument than a "**** you".

you fag


crap, i apologize

 

[Sledgehammer]

I'm not racist. I'm a bit sexist though, until someone proves me wrong.

 

[Laivasse]

I think I fall somewhere between the two camps here.

Firstly, the study in the OP sounds flawed to me, either in its methodology or the way it's been represented in the article. As has been mentioned there are a number of personality-related reasons, unconnected to implicit support of racist viewpoints, why a white person may choose to partner with the test-racist. We don't know what the conditions of that choice were. Similarly, if the choice were between the racist and a person of different ethnicity, a subject who has led a sheltered life, and feels for whatever reason like they have no frame of reference with a non-white, might partner with the racist due to a desire to pick the 'safe' option in a pressured social situation.

Also, why did the test-racist make 'a racist comment' which could 'range from moderate to extreme racial slurs'? Why not one unchanging comment, so as to better gauge a representative response? There's a world of difference between implicit acceptance of a racist remark intended as humour (however poorly conceived), and pairing up with a guy who says 'GOD, I hate those filthy n*ggers!' Instead of testing to see what white people tend to do when presented with a certain degree of racism, it sounds like this study was based on the subtly different, less useful premise of 'let's be kind of racist in front of a bunch of different white people and see what they do'.

The preachy remark at the end about how 'by not doing anything you are actually contributing to a society that will be racist in the future' is part of why I question the impartiality of the study. It's a fact of life, and one which shouldn't draw much criticism tbh, that, in situations of little consequence, people are always going to prioritise personal considerations over a crusade against inequality. If I hear a grandma on the bus slagging off nignogs to her grandson, I'm not going to step in and criticise her for fear of intimidating an old lady or hurting her feelings. If I hear am ethnic gang slagging off white people I'm not going to step in for fear of getting shanked. If I'm participating in some kind of team activity and the guy with the most strident personality makes a racist remark, I might not dismiss him for fear that I get paired up with someone useless and the afternoon turns into an exercise in humiliation. And so on.

At the same time I think unspoken racism among white people is a big problem, and perhaps a bigger problem in some demographics than individuals might want to acknowledge (I just don't think the above study properly demonstrates it). Certainly, I think implicit racism among the ruling classes is easily as much of a problem as highly vocal racism from belligerent non-white groups, since it has more of an effect on society.

When I, say, watch news of tragedy in the middle east, and white friends make a tasteless joke about it in order to lighten the mood/assert their emotional distance from events, I can't help but feel that it would be a much harder joke to make if the people on screen were white, and not engaged in such culturally outlandish screaming, breastbeating, or whatever. I don't think the dehumanising effect of even mild prejudice should be underestimated. Probably the key is being able to distinguish between what I called those 'situations of little consequence' and situations which are more than that.


Also... I said some of my best friends were darkies but... I don't actually know any black people
To be fair, I don't know any white people either.

 

[McGooTheWise]

*snip*

You're funny. The way you completely miss the point of his argument is amusing to me. Do it more so I can laugh.

 

[Kinslayer]

I would just like to add a few things here:

1) Whites are discriminated against openly. Take a look at colleges. You know that bullshit of "racially diverse" they try and pull? Yeah, that means if you're white, you have a disadvantage. Even "equal opportunity employers" who flaunt such a position usually put whites at a disadvantage, bringing in a 50:50ish white:nonwhite ratio, while in the country overall the ratio is closer to 80:20 (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0110384.html).

2) Everything DS has said is pretty much spot on; it depends on the demographics of where you're looking at. Yeah, the deep south is gonna be pretty racist against non-whites. Other places? Not so much, or maybe as DS said, the reverse.

3) People confuse humor with outright racism. Racist jokes have evolved from a society emerging from racism, so much that I can tell a blatantly racist joke to a bunch of diverse friends and everyone laughs, whether the joke was directed at their race or not. Was the joke racist? Sure. Was I being racist? **** no.

Edit: Not to mention all the scholarship opportunities minority groups get!

 

[No Limit]

Gee, I'm so ****ing sorry for jumping to the crazy conclusion that you don't like black people. I mean you only said, in response to me saying that innocent black people are getting shot by the police on a regular basis, the following:

"and to be quite racist yet completely honest--NIGGAS BE DOING SHIT THAT WARRANTS THEM BEING SHOT AT"

Yeah, how can I be that ****ing stupid and assume you were excusing innocent black people getting shot at? You even used that very colorful term that we all know is in no way, shape, or form racist.

Yes, no shit, there are black people out that that act like idiots. And as a result of those people the entire black community is discriminated against. I know plenty of white people that find glory in the thug culture you just mentioned, why do employers not see me as a potential gangster when I go to apply for a job? Shit, I roll up to work all the time with my hip hop music blarring, I haven't been passed up for a promotion or raise yet. Why not (probably because I'm as white as my avatar suggests)?

And yes, no shit. There will be black people that work their ass off that suceed, what the **** does that have to do with the point I am making? The point being that blacks continue to get discriminated on in the world place? Do you really not find this troubling in any way?

 

[Pesmerga]

I believe you're confusing racism with discrimination; racism must be backed by privilege and power for it to be more than discrimination. For example, a Japanese man living in America who hates whites is not racist, despite clearly being prejudiced; a Japanese man living in Japan who hates whites is racist. This may seem like simple semantics, but it's important to make this distinction when approaching race issues. Otherwise it's easy to lose sight of the power dynamic, which is essential in understanding racism.

I dunno, I think anyone who genuinely hates whites or the Japanese without reason is racist. Discrimination encompasses a more specific hatred- believing that women are inferior, a certain regional dialect are inferior, etc. Prejudice can encompass a whole array of topics, like prejudice toward gun control because of past experiences, or prejudice against Sony because of whatever illogical reasoning.

I don't think it's entirely practical to only consider someone a racist if there's a power dynamic in the midst. I mean, there's really ALWAYS a power dynamic, even if it's not political.

Common racist ideals will eventually shrink into near nothing as time persists. It's important to act swiftly and legally against a group of true believers, but most programs designed to fight racism are counter-productive. Anything that separates people into groups (like the United Negro College Fund) further perpetuates feelings of separatism, which leads people to believe there is something morally different between the two groups.

Humans will eventually realize the folly of their ways and unite under a global flag. Humans will become racist towards aliens, AS THEY SHOULD TO ENSURE THE SURVIVAL OF THE IMPERIUM AND THAT THE EMPEROR'S ENEMIES MAY BE ANNIHILATED WITHOUT HESITATION.

 

[Tyguy]

if people would stop race baiting the words would lose their meaning and just be thrown in with the rest of the insults. But instead, fake white guilt and people like jesse jackson are enlarging the gap between the races.

Not to agree with either side, but take the example of a school filled with blacks and 1 white then reverse the situation...id rather be the one black kid, wouldn't you?

on second thought, id look terrible with a fro

 

[No Limit]

You don't have to be nice, but a good point always builds a stronger argument than a "**** you".

you fag


crap, i apologize

But what about a good point with a nice **** you inserted at the end? You homo!

 

[No Limit]

Not to agree with either side, but take the example of a school filled with blacks and 1 white then reverse the situation...id rather be the one black kid, wouldn't you?

That depends, are you the one black kid in upstate new york or the one black kid in some hillbilly town in Alabama?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Darkside: it may be true that people can pull themselves up out of whatever upbringing they start off in; I know people like that. But nobody claims that rising from disadvantage is impossible, nor that rising from privilege is certain. The issue more generally tends to be about quality of life, and about the fact that what privilege allows is for mediocre people to have better quality of life than people of similar ability and resourcefulness to . Stating that some people have shit chances in life (note: "chances") is not making excuses; it's accepting an unjust reality, which can't be changed without clearsightedness.

The whole "make lemonade" perspective is absolutely essential for getting the most out of life but not really reasonably applicable in the political sphere to the issue of social justice. What one has to do to get on is a different issue to what people should have to do to get on. If utopia is possible, build it.

Toaster: you make a good point but as far as I'm concerned issues of history and content-'weight' are irrelevant when we're talking about material abuses like discrimination or beatings. The historical context means far more when we're talking about statements, representations, art, but far less when talking about discrimination. Verbal abuse falls uneasily between those two poles (which aren't poles, but whatever).

Also what Pesmerga said.

Kinslayer: Further to what I said to Ztuttle earlier, and to Toaster just now, a 'racist' joke, the meaning or message of which is 'ha ha blacks are stupid' or something like that, is an entirely different prospect from using racist discourse to make another joke (or indeed a joke against racism).

An example of a racist-meaning joke would be:
Q: Did you hear about the paki who bought a pack of odour eaters?
A: They ate him!
Here the joke is literally that pakis are all smelly. Ha-ha, hilarious. Such jokes unavoidably suggest a silent but vicious little afterword to the effect of "fucking pakis".

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CS_pN_rzej8

 

[Laivasse]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CS_pN_rzej8

How the hell... That sketch has been flitting in and out of my head since I started reading this topic.

Later in the same ep there's another bit where an indian woman buys some of those tomatoes, calling them 'wonderfully ironic'. I can't articulate how that ties in, but it does.

 

[CptStern]

Stern. I am Spaniard. My ancestors hail directly from SPAIN. My last name is CARLOS, Spaniard for "man," derived from the Germanic "warrior," a name of pride and strength. Don't tell ME not to confuse this glorious conquistador blood of mine for "latino," because that's something I would never be caught doing. Spanish occupation of the Philippines, an occupation of 400 years, you might want to look that up.

arent you asian? filipino?

 

[Darkside55]

Hey, guys, cool it. Your remarks are getting a little...off colour?

It will always be a tragedy that I can't have your babies.

I don't actually know any black people To be fair, I don't know any white people either.

This is really interesting to me, especially given your location. What's the racial makeup of your area?

Gee, I'm so ****ing sorry for jumping to the crazy conclusion that you don't like black people. I mean you only said, in response to me saying that innocent black people are getting shot by the police on a regular basis, the following:

"and to be quite racist yet completely honest--NIGGAS BE DOING SHIT THAT WARRANTS THEM BEING SHOT AT"

I'm saying that a lot of times when people say, "He was innocent," they're not. Or they're doing suspicious things. I mean come off it dude what are you quoting when you say "innocent black people are getting shot at?" The last story in the news was that kid on the BART, and why'd cops even show up in the first place? He was fighting. Now, before you start screeching at me, I'm not saying that he should be shot for fighting. Far from it. I'm not condoning that officer's actions, nor do I agree with him getting off after resigning. I think he was outrageously wrong and should be tried and convicted.

Buuuuuut on the other hand had that kid not been doing typical black-man-on-municipal-transit-activities, he wouldn't have gotten pulled off by BART police anyway. He was fighting. Attracted the police. Shit went down and it went down in an unexpected and tragic way.

And y'know, that's just the latest one that's been in the news, where are all the other ones? When was the last one you heard about before that? Black people have a chip on their shoulder at the police. They're supposedly always going around shooting "innocent" black men. What you don't get is that this is also a stereotype--a stereotype about the police. And it's such shit.

So I'm not hating on black folks, I'm just being honest. Stop doing activities that don't mark you out to the police and maybe you won't get shot. The police won't even be there in the first place and everything will be copacetic.

Yes, no shit, there are black people out that that act like idiots. And as a result of those people the entire black community is discriminated against. I know plenty of white people that find glory in the thug culture you just mentioned, why do employers not see me as a potential gangster when I go to apply for a job?

Because gang glorification is not even REMOTELY close to being as prevalent in white society as it is in black society. And this is one of those instances where we look at the majority of a group and judge the whole group in that way. Now that definitely isn't RIGHT, but that's just the way it is. If black people wanted to change that they could. Instead they glorify it. This is their problem. If, as a community, black people were like, "Oh, shit, we have a really bad public image and we're always acting and portraying ourselves in this manner, we need to knock it off" then do you think that article you linked would be true anymore?

So you're not perceived as a gangster, you're just some white kid who listens to rap music. That's how you're seen.

And yes, no shit. There will be black people that work their ass off that suceed, what the **** does that have to do with the point I am making? The point being that blacks continue to get discriminated on in the world place? Do you really not find this troubling in any way?

Point is you're setting up an automatic cop out. It allows black people to complain and place every blame on external factors; e.g. THE WHITE MAN. The point is that if you work your ass off, you succeed...no matter what prejudices are set against you. However, minorities--not just blacks--always use this as an excuse to sit around on their laurels, make the most meager of efforts, and when they don't succeed the blame racism. Isn't THAT troubling to YOU?

Humans will become racist towards aliens, AS THEY SHOULD TO ENSURE THE SURVIVAL OF THE IMPERIUM AND THAT THE EMPEROR'S ENEMIES MAY BE ANNIHILATED WITHOUT HESITATION.

BURN THE HERETICS

arent you asian? filipino?

spanish occupation of the Philippines

 

[nurizeko]

were they enslaved because of their skin color?

Yup, large swathes of south European coast were all but abandoned because of the constant predations of North Africa pirates and slavers.

The media is so full of shit about Black slaves and European empires that people seem to have forgotten that in more equal times, Arabs, Indians, Chinese, Native Americans and blacks were anything but the embodiment of racial tolerance and peace.

Slavery is not a white only crime and I am getting bored of it being made out to be.

Slavery is ironically an evil that transcends all racial barriers and instead of constantly ripping into white folk (because we all know every white family owned some blackies, right?, and none of them ever bothered to try and get slaves equal tratment and freedom and pass laws to end slavery) perhaps it would be more productive to rip into the parts of the world where slavery is still common.

Its like picking on you neighbour for the bad actions of the last owners of his home even as the neighbours on the other side are beyond redemption.

Its actually quite annoying, I'm thinking of punching out the next stupid **** who tries to land the evils of every slave owner and racist generations removed on me as if somehow sharing a skin tone makes me somehow in any way linked to the guilty person and their ****ing ideologies and opinions.

It'd be satisfying but they'd just sick the PC patrol on me, which will ironically consist mostly of militant whiteys who are so subconsciously guilty of their own prejudices that they'll feel compelled to fight racism, real or merely perceived, with an irrational passion.

a Japanese man living in America who hates whites is not racist, despite clearly being prejudiced;

OH LAWDY LAWD!

/facepalms

When a white person makes a racist comment about blacks, for instance, there are hundreds of years of oppression and hatred that stand behind that comment. When a black person makes a discriminatory comment about whites, while it's certainly no better, it doesn't have the same historical backing.

Historical backing, jesus, that has to be so dumb.

If a black guy is spitting contempt at me because he has a tangible hatred for all white skinned people regardless of who they are and what they are about, its goddamn ****ing racism and its just as disgustingly offensive as any other hate spitting shitbag who hates based on race.

For example, minorities make up a significant portion of those below the poverty line, while the very rich are typically white.

Because the vast majority of whites are rich right?, there is absolutely no instance of vast estates of poor white folk.

*rolls eyes*

Sorry Toaster, I know what your trying to get at but its based on a flawed position. Being white doesn't make me somehow more deserving of racism then if I am any other race. Racism is racism, if your hating/fearing another race, its racism.


I don't like this white lead crusade against white racism because as far as I am concerned it reflects a guilt of the crusader based on the fact they somehow perceive whites to be superior even if all things are being equal.

You fight racism by fighting it in all its forms equally, you don't get to pick and chose and then make up cute little illogical unrealistic arguments to support it.

History, privilidge, it has nothing to do with it.

On the ground, in the street, between two people, if your hating me because of my race then your as much of a racist as if I was to do it to you.

 

[CptStern]

spanish occupation of the Philippines

then that would mean you're of filipino descent, you're not a spaniard

 

[Darkside55]

then that would mean you're of filipino descent, you're not a spaniard

I have Spanish blood. I like to believe I have more Spanish blood than Asian blood. My grandfather was Spanish and Filipino, and my grandmother was French and Filipino. That already dilutes the Asian. And then I've got all the white blood from my mother; the Irish and German blood.

I like to believe the actual amount of Asian content in my blood is a blot, and the Asiatic features only surfaced because of the dominance of the genes. That probably isn't the actual case (that I only have a tiny amount of Asian blood), but shut up, I can have dreams. Big dreams. Caucasian dreams. ;(

 

[Sulkdodds]

then that would mean you're of filipino descent, you're not a spaniard

He is a perfect blood union of conqueror and conquered, master and slave, predator and prey, west and east, hope and despair, cruelty and forbearance, comfort and misery. Arise! All sins are forgiven! All injustice is mended! The lion is the lamb! Heaven is empty, and all the angels are here.

 

[mortiz-Redux]

I must admit I hear racism all the time and I say nothing, there's so much of it around to be honest I ain't got the time to be a bloody crusader, I cringe and ignore it.

 

[Tyguy]

anyone seen gran torino? Excellent movie, and racially hilarious.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I specifically said that discrimination against minorities is not worse in and of itself, but rather that it has a much greater chance of leading to oppression.

...Again, it's not a matter of excusing minorities for their prejudices. It's just as bad. But those in the minority don't have the same power to oppress.

It's this I clearly missed, as my response was predicated on you saying white racism was 'intrinsically' worse. It is not, but certainly it has more "power to oppress."

That said, surely non-white racism simply fuels a fire that should be extinguished, and itself indirectly stimulates oppression.


I'm not sure I understand the way you're using 'racism' and 'discrimination'. I think the table most people would draw of these words would describe, prejudice as an unfair, illogically-held belief against something (anything); racism as an unfair, illogically-held belief against a large group of people - and the individuals within that group with refrence to the group; discrimination would be material exclusion of people from said group based on prejudice or racism.

 

[NeptuneUK]

anyone seen gran torino? Excellent movie, and racially hilarious.

 

[No Limit]

I'm saying that a lot of times when people say, "He was innocent," they're not. Or they're doing suspicious things. I mean come off it dude what are you quoting when you say "innocent black people are getting shot at?" The last story in the news was that kid on the BART, and why'd cops even show up in the first place? He was fighting. Now, before you start screeching at me, I'm not saying that he should be shot for fighting. Far from it. I'm not condoning that officer's actions, nor do I agree with him getting off after resigning. I think he was outrageously wrong and should be tried and convicted.

Buuuuuut on the other hand had that kid not been doing typical black-man-on-municipal-transit-activities, he wouldn't have gotten pulled off by BART police anyway. He was fighting. Attracted the police. Shit went down and it went down in an unexpected and tragic way.

And y'know, that's just the latest one that's been in the news, where are all the other ones? When was the last one you heard about before that? Black people have a chip on their shoulder at the police. They're supposedly always going around shooting "innocent" black men. What you don't get is that this is also a stereotype--a stereotype about the police. And it's such shit.

So I'm not hating on black folks, I'm just being honest. Stop doing activities that don't mark you out to the police and maybe you won't get shot. The police won't even be there in the first place and everything will be copacetic.

You would agree that I had a right to jump to the conclusion that I jumped to based on your remark though? If you don't feel that way then I do need to calm the **** down, but the way you worded that original reply was totally off base in my opinion.

And yes, the guy shouldn't have been fighting. But people break the law, that's why we have cops. White people fight, black people fight, asian people fight. However, it is only in the case of black people (and sometimes mexican people) that a gun gets pulled on a person after they have been handcuffed and controlled. What more recent examples do you want? There are plenty. The 12 year old black girl getting kidnapped by police recently being one of them, stern posted it not that long ago. So there is a very good reason black people have a chip on their shoulder, especially since 9.9 times out of ten these assholes that abuse their authority never get punished for it. How many countless studies have been done that blacks are far more likely to be pulled over than whites? How much more evidance do you need of this racism before you stop denying it?

Because gang glorification is not even REMOTELY close to being as prevalent in white society as it is in black society. And this is one of those instances where we look at the majority of a group and judge the whole group in that way. Now that definitely isn't RIGHT, but that's just the way it is. If black people wanted to change that they could. Instead they glorify it. This is their problem. If, as a community, black people were like, "Oh, shit, we have a really bad public image and we're always acting and portraying ourselves in this manner, we need to knock it off" then do you think that article you linked would be true anymore?

So you're not perceived as a gangster, you're just some white kid who listens to rap music. That's how you're seen.

What you seem to be missing is that this glorification takes place for a perticular income group, not race. White kids living in poor areas glorify this thug culture just as much black kids living in those areas do. You are trying to make this a race issue when it is a class issue. Nobody disputes that blacks tend to be poorer which is why they are affected by this more. The fact you keep suggesting that all black people, or even most black people act this way is absolutely absurd. This view that you are showing here is the exact reason blacks are getting discriminated on.

And if you don't think the black community is speaking out about this so called thug culture you have selective hearing. Even in hip hop there are more voices coming out these days speaking out against this.

Point is you're setting up an automatic cop out. It allows black people to complain and place every blame on external factors; e.g. THE WHITE MAN. The point is that if you work your ass off, you succeed...no matter what prejudices are set against you. However, minorities--not just blacks--always use this as an excuse to sit around on their laurels, make the most meager of efforts, and when they don't succeed the blame racism. Isn't THAT troubling to YOU?

Yes, when I saw that Burris asshole try to use racism as cover for why he wasn't being allowed in the senate it did trouble me. Again, what in the world does this have to do with my point? The fact remains that black people have a lot more stacked up against them in the professional world than white people do. And this is not right, it's one of the clearest examples of racism in our society.

 

[Laivasse]

This is really interesting to me, especially given your location. What's the racial makeup of your area?

100% Liar-ino. :stare:

It was an exaggeration/joke (lie); I do know only white people, in truth, just that with my being fairly antisocial they don't number many. At the moment that's also partly a consequence of my area. I'm staying in a small town in Offaly, Ireland (I just haven't updated my location) where I don't really know anyone and black people are in the extreme minority. The only other people I come into contact with nowadays are from my Ohio girlfriend's circle of acquaintances, who live in a predominantly white area and are white themselves.

When I was in East London it was a bit different. I was friends mainly with a couple of white guys and 2 half viet, half chinese brothers. I had a brief and awkward relationship with an indian woman from south africa. Way back in my early teens Some Of My Best Friends Were Black (tm), but as the social groups in school began to atomize around cores of common interest, I fell out of contact with them as they got together to talk about hiphop and other stuff I didn't care about, while I hung out with the kids who had the most surreal/offensive senses of humour. In university, however, most of my class was white and thus most of my friends were white.

 

[CptStern]

I have Spanish blood. I like to believe I have more Spanish blood than Asian blood. My grandfather was Spanish and Filipino, and my grandmother was French and Filipino. That already dilutes the Asian. And then I've got all the white blood from my mother; the Irish and German blood.

you're a Heinz 57

"a little bit of this and a little bit of that"

you're not spaniard

I like to believe the actual amount of Asian content in my blood is a blot, and the Asiatic features only surfaced because of the dominance of the genes. That probably isn't the actual case (that I only have a tiny amount of Asian blood), but shut up, I can have dreams. Big dreams. Caucasian dreams. ;(

drop the CAUC and you're correct

 

[Sulkdodds]

I'm going to recommend to Pi that your title be changed to 'THE DREAMCRUSHER', Stern.

 

[NeptuneUK]

zomfglol!

D:

 

[Laivasse]

I think you're misrepresenting toaster's point a little.

That's like saying "While I don't advocate rape, when a woman is raped it is a far more serious crime than a man being raped when you consider that the majority of rape victims over the years have been women".

A better way of characterising the argument would be:
"When a man is raped by a woman it is just as repugnant as a woman being raped by a man. (IF YOU'RE A GAYLORD OLOL j/k)
However, male on female rape is a far greater problem for society than female on male, due to its vastly higher frequency of occurrence, and the historical power relationship between men and women."

 

[No Limit]

-History is not a variable that determines how right or wrong these things are, or what groups or individuals are allowed to do these things.
If you apply History to justify any of these it is an excuse, not a reason.

I agree to an extent. But lets say a black guy jokes by calling a white guy cracker. Not really that funny but whatever, nobody gets offended because cracker doesn't mean anything. But lets say a white guy calls a black guy a n*****. What he's really saying is hey "remember how we used to keep your great grandparents as slaves and then didn't allow your grand parents to drink from the same water fountains or to vote in our elections? ahahaahah!!!". Since history comes in to play, it's a bit different no? I don't think that outside of a few isolated cases there is ever racism against white people; probably because white people control the world.

 

[mortiz-Redux]

i personally don't get offended at all if someone uses the word "cracker" or even calls me a cracker.

 

[CptStern]

I'm going to recommend to Pi that your title be changed to 'THE DREAMCRUSHER', Stern.

gotta stick up for the white race:

"Well the overlords thought it would be a good idea
To mix the Black with the White
But if you're a fly in the buttermilk
They'll chase you all through the night
So go ahead and burn your cross and rape our women in the night,
'Cause the tables are turned when your cream coated daughter is gonna be my wife."

 

[Laivasse]

When someone calls me a cracker I put some cheese on my head and playfully encourage them to give my cheek a nibble.

That tends to create an awkward gap in the conversation. so i PUSH MY THUMBS IN THEIR EYES UNTIL THEY SWITCH OFF

 

[Darkside55]

You would agree that I had a right to jump to the conclusion that I jumped to based on your remark though? If you don't feel that way then I do need to calm the **** down, but the way you worded that original reply was totally off base in my opinion.

Perhaps my wording seemed offensive to you, and while I can fault you for not paying attention closer, said words might've blinded you to that. So, I can't really get mad at you. Idiot.

Besides I'd never tell anyone to calm down in an argument.

And yes, the guy shouldn't have been fighting. But people break the law, that's why we have cops. White people fight, black people fight, asian people fight. However, it is only in the case of black people (and sometimes mexican people) that a gun gets pulled on a person after they have been handcuffed and controlled.

I don't know how correct that statement is, but I'm not going to go trawling the internets to disprove it.

The 12 year old black girl getting kidnapped by police recently being one of them, stern posted it not that long ago. So there is a very good reason black people have a chip on their shoulder, especially since 9.9 times out of ten these assholes that abuse their authority never get punished for it. How many countless studies have been done that blacks are far more likely to be pulled over than whites? How much more evidance do you need of this racism before you stop denying it?

Oh, yes, that story. I properly raged at that one.

And I'm not denying that there's racism among the police. Everyone knows "suspect is a black male." But I'm saying, man, a lot of times cries of "innocent," aren't. A lot more times than people are willing to admit. And since crime rates are highest among blacks, is it really any wonder that cops are prejudiced?

What you seem to be missing is that this glorification takes place for a perticular income group, not race. White kids living in poor areas glorify this thug culture just as much black kids living in those areas do. You are trying to make this a race issue when it is a class issue. Nobody disputes that blacks tend to be poorer which is why they are affected by this more. The fact you keep suggesting that all black people, or even most black people act this way is absolutely absurd. This view that you are showing here is the exact reason blacks are getting discriminated on.

If most Black people tend to be poorer, and the poorer class glorifies thug culture more, does that not mean that most Blacks glorify thug culture? That's not me saying that, that's you saying that. And that's exactly what's going on.

Besides, I'm not putting words in rappers mouths and sticking them on TV. You know this is a problem in their culture. Rappers are rich as shit and they're rapping to the "poorer class" about murderin', stealin', pimpin' and drug dealin'. The Black community eats this shit up. So do whites and asians, for that matter, but not nearly as much...not as much in their races--NOR their classes--to adversely affect their stereotype. And if Black people really wanted to change that, again, they'd look at their image and realize there's a problem.

And if you don't think the black community is speaking out about this so called thug culture you have selective hearing. Even in hip hop there are more voices coming out these days speaking out against this.

Few. FEW. And not the vocal few. But Black people know this. It's like what Chris Rock said, "There are black people, and there are n*ggas. And even black people don't like n*ggas."

The fact remains that black people have a lot more stacked up against them in the professional world than white people do. And this is not right, it's one of the clearest examples of racism in our society.

Well this is something we agree on. But it isn't an unfixable situation.

you're not spaniard

drop the CAUC and you're correct

Anyway, how's that work? Having spanish blood is part spaniard. How am I suddenly not spaniard if I have spanish blood? That makes no sense. If that were the case that also means I'm not Irish, or not Asia--

...

that'd mean I'm not Asian.

THAT MEANS I'M NOT ASIAN!

But...that means I can never be white either...

I'll take it. I am no race at all. I'll take it.

 

[Eejit]

I think Stern is trying to say you're just a mutt.

He is a perfect blood union of conqueror and conquered, master and slave, predator and prey, west and east, hope and despair, cruelty and forbearance, comfort and misery.

Pride and prejudice! Sense and sensiblity!

Am I doing it right?

 

[Darkside55]

I think Stern is trying to say you're just a mutt.

I used to identify myself as such, but there's no bubble for it on a standardized test.

 

[Uriel]

Stern, we all know you hate white people. Stop reposting this shhtuff

 

[CptStern]

I'm a white dood, Urinal