New Team Fortress 2 Gamemode: TF2 Arena
- Thread starter Hectic Glenn
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Laivasse
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Love the new alpine look. Love cp_steel (which surprised me). Hate arena mode/Team Forterstrike 2.
Dying and having to sit out the rest of the round is irritating but bearable when I'm either in a supernaturally good mood or very drunk. Dying and then potentially having to sit out that round and then the NEXT round when my team lose makes my brain boil and piss out through my ears. If I knew I was going to live 1000 years, then maybe I would feel like I had enough time to waste just sitting around watching complete strangers play TF2 for 5 minutes at a time, just because I had the misfortune to turn a corner and meet a heavy with his gun already spun-up. As it is, arena's just yet more drek in the server browser for me to avoid. I wish they'd left this 'no respawn mode' to modders and given us something truly exciting and objective based instead, but then maybe I've just been spoilt too much by Valve in the past.
Dying and having to sit out the rest of the round is irritating but bearable when I'm either in a supernaturally good mood or very drunk. Dying and then potentially having to sit out that round and then the NEXT round when my team lose makes my brain boil and piss out through my ears. If I knew I was going to live 1000 years, then maybe I would feel like I had enough time to waste just sitting around watching complete strangers play TF2 for 5 minutes at a time, just because I had the misfortune to turn a corner and meet a heavy with his gun already spun-up. As it is, arena's just yet more drek in the server browser for me to avoid. I wish they'd left this 'no respawn mode' to modders and given us something truly exciting and objective based instead, but then maybe I've just been spoilt too much by Valve in the past.
Stigmata
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I tried it yesterday. It was good, I really like arena maps (badlands looks like there was some viral outbreak with those high fences) and new entviroment is badass. On the other hand, its extremely boring to sit by, so I am happy that if you win, you are still in the game. This really brings some kind of urgency to the game - you really dont want to die.
Anyway, Im looking forward to see some non-arena alpine maps.
Anyway, Im looking forward to see some non-arena alpine maps.
alpha incipiens
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I do too. But I like to watch other people play video games anyway, it's odd.
Crispy
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It's not the fact that money is on the line that gets people camping, it's the spawn system and the 'come to me' gameplay. The cash rewards are just an added incentive, but the main incentive is that people like the sensation of winning and if there is a method that gives them an advantage, no matter how boring, devoid of skill or unsportsmanlike, they will choose it. Camping in CS makes winning easier. People would do it whether there was money on the line or not, so long as it helps them win.
The main difference with arena is that, as was pointed out in this thread, the two teams have to move off their arses to the central point, so camping isn't a winning strategy. I still don't feel that the round spawning fits in with the 'Fortress style and gameplay, but I'll bite my tongue for now at least until I've had a chance to try it out this weekend.
Crispy
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Didn't like the 'sound' of it
- because it seemed to echo what Natural Selection did with the introduction of Combat (a reference that most NS players should get). Basically splitting the playerbase and dumbing down gameplay.And yes, I still don't like the sound of it, primarily because I don't like short rounds, I was expecting something with more depth or at least more originality. Payload is a great game mode, I want to be proved wrong when I try out Arena this weekend.
One other thing I'd like to point out is that Counter-Strike didn't have critical hits with its round respawn system. Do randomised, triple-damage hits belong in a no-respawns game mode?
Absinthe
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I am inclined to feel that crits should be removed from Arena mode. I consider them an annoyance in the other modes, but considering there is no respawn timer to help smooth things over in Arena, it seems patently unfair to "best" an opponent with them. Death is final, and in light of that I believe the playing field should be completely level without the WTFCRIT wrench thrown into it.
Crispy
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If you repeatedly fire shots into the air you will get a crit sooner or later. This proves that the initial condition for getting a crit is totally random: it's based on a small percentage probability. You can increase the likelihood of getting a crit by inflicting more damage with your hits in a short timeframe. This does not stop you getting killed in Arena by a completely random crit, it just gives weaker players a crutch to explain away their luckshots ("Yeah it -could- have been a complete fluke, but it was probably my skill").
I've started playing on nocrits servers when I can (that's 'nocrits' with no other alterations, these servers are pretty hard to come by) and I have to say they're totally refreshing. The deserving team always wins, Sudden Death is a lot more palatable and you know that pretty much every person who kills you did so through their own skill, so you respect them for it.
I can't see why crits are in Arena mode other than to water down an already short-lived game mode.
PvtRyan
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Utter nonsense. If the "deserving" team loses due to crits, they're not the deserving team. I agree that crits can turn the tide in arena, but in other modes they mean nothing in the bigger picture. If crits cause you to lose a game, then chances are you would've lost it anyway. Besides, every team gets as many crits as the other.
Absinthe
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Crits don't give an advantage to one team over the other.
They just throw the game to the whims of something you can't exert any control over. You can crit and miss, but you can also completely demolish an enemy's final hold on a control point or intel. And that's just... well, it's so gay.
Besides, I'm kind of tired of rounding every third corner only to have a crit rocket thrown in my face.
They just throw the game to the whims of something you can't exert any control over. You can crit and miss, but you can also completely demolish an enemy's final hold on a control point or intel. And that's just... well, it's so gay.
Besides, I'm kind of tired of rounding every third corner only to have a crit rocket thrown in my face.
Operational
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Err, what do you mean? We got a new payload map this update.
Hunter-Killer
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I don't see why people complain about crits so much. Yeah it’s a pain when you have full health and someone pops round and kills you in a second but at the same time whenever you get crits I bet your not complaining. It just adds more intensity to the game. If you hate them so much, there are many servers which have crits turned off.
Crispy
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I played it finally. I've given the mode a good 8 hours or so on arena-only vanilla servers to get a full taste of it.
---
The good:
- Actually quite fun, but then again I like the added tension of Counter-Strike.
- A gamemode that suits small teams and scales up surprisingly well.
- The team auto-balance system is inspired, and usually works well.
- The maps are all very strong. I can't find any overpowered tactics (probably because the rounds are so short)
- 'Last man standing' spectacles are great to watch, and play.
- Teamwork seems more rewarding when the stakes are so high.
The bad:
- Crits just shouldn't be in this game mode. End of.
- Rounds are too short. The map always ends before you get into it.
- Destroys the already-established, near-perfect balance between the classes. There is no use for some classes in this game mode.
- I'm still going to say this mode promotes camping, I just don't think enough people have tried it out enough to prove that works.
- I don't play TF2 to sit out of a round because my team lost. Losing is punishment enough.
- All maps need a bit of water near the centre because Pyros can be a bit overpowered in the end game.
In TF2 there are 9 classes that all 'rock-paper-scissors' eachother in a fine-tuned balance. Arena is however balanced for 8 v 8, so it's impossible to have a player as every class on a team. That's the first sign Arena is a bit ill-thought out. One class per team is always never used. The second is that certain classes perform way better than others in this mode. Medics with Soldiers, Heavies and Pyros are all very strong in Arena, moreso than in normal TF2.
Engies are laughable, their level 1 sentries only do chip damage to a good player. Their weapons are averagely powerful and the dispenser is the only advantage, but it's only good if your team's going to camp it out, which makes for a boring spectacle. A Medic is twice any Engy on your team. Teleporters as a feature of the class are totally useless in this game mode.
Spies are very useful until it comes to capping the point. They demolish Snipers and they can remove key targets like Medics and Heavies. But come the final showdown they are as useful as an Engy, maybe less since at least an Engy will probably have full health by this point if he's still alive and can always get more.
I'm not going to say the Sniper is weak in this mode, but it relies heavily on other people doing their job at spychecking and watching your back, and you can almost never count on this in Arena. Theoretically it's very powerful, but you need to know you're in a safe spot if you want to get those headshots. Close-range snapshots don't mean as much if nobody else is backing you up with a pistol or a shotgun. Badlands is the only map where you don't have to rely on this as much, but the spots you can snipe from are usually very quiet so nobody wants to stick around there to watch your back.
The short round times and no respawns thing is a bit of a Catch 22. If the rounds were longer the respawn times would be even longer, but right now you don't really get enough time on the map to get your teeth into the experience. Counter-Strike worked better because it was something you could get into, but I don't think most TF2 players are actually fans of CS's plodding game style.
What really pisses me off is being told that I can't play the game I bought because someone on my team lost a round or because some random joined the server. You shouldn't be punished so severely. Sure, call me a loser and give the other team a +1, but don't take away the game you want me to play. That's just stupid and wrong on fundamental levels. Another player joined the server! Yay, more people have come to play TF2. We like more people playing this game, don't we? Oh wait now I'm just allowed to watch. Arena mode. Yay.
I was very dubious of this mode but I haven't been totally convinced it's crap. The maps themselves are very good and have massive replayability. It has some flaws but, even if these are ironed out, at the core you still have a watered-down game mode which is too short to be considered a good deathmatch and too deathmatchy to be a good use of TF2's classes. It's a half breed of a game mode. Mixed in with TF2 it's not too bad, but on its own it would be pretty unsatisfying. TF2's other modes prop this up and let it get away with the fact it's not really as entertaining as it should be, coming from Valve.
---
This is what I use whenever anyone tries to argue that crits A) aren't random and B) don't decide rounds:
[youtube]wzv8r4UTF9A[/youtube]
4 crits, 4 consecutive kills. Semi final victory to the luckier team (both are great teams and deserved a more even fight to the finish).
---
The good:
- Actually quite fun, but then again I like the added tension of Counter-Strike.
- A gamemode that suits small teams and scales up surprisingly well.
- The team auto-balance system is inspired, and usually works well.
- The maps are all very strong. I can't find any overpowered tactics (probably because the rounds are so short)
- 'Last man standing' spectacles are great to watch, and play.
- Teamwork seems more rewarding when the stakes are so high.
The bad:
- Crits just shouldn't be in this game mode. End of.
- Rounds are too short. The map always ends before you get into it.
- Destroys the already-established, near-perfect balance between the classes. There is no use for some classes in this game mode.
- I'm still going to say this mode promotes camping, I just don't think enough people have tried it out enough to prove that works.
- I don't play TF2 to sit out of a round because my team lost. Losing is punishment enough.
- All maps need a bit of water near the centre because Pyros can be a bit overpowered in the end game.
In TF2 there are 9 classes that all 'rock-paper-scissors' eachother in a fine-tuned balance. Arena is however balanced for 8 v 8, so it's impossible to have a player as every class on a team. That's the first sign Arena is a bit ill-thought out. One class per team is always never used. The second is that certain classes perform way better than others in this mode. Medics with Soldiers, Heavies and Pyros are all very strong in Arena, moreso than in normal TF2.
Engies are laughable, their level 1 sentries only do chip damage to a good player. Their weapons are averagely powerful and the dispenser is the only advantage, but it's only good if your team's going to camp it out, which makes for a boring spectacle. A Medic is twice any Engy on your team. Teleporters as a feature of the class are totally useless in this game mode.
Spies are very useful until it comes to capping the point. They demolish Snipers and they can remove key targets like Medics and Heavies. But come the final showdown they are as useful as an Engy, maybe less since at least an Engy will probably have full health by this point if he's still alive and can always get more.
I'm not going to say the Sniper is weak in this mode, but it relies heavily on other people doing their job at spychecking and watching your back, and you can almost never count on this in Arena. Theoretically it's very powerful, but you need to know you're in a safe spot if you want to get those headshots. Close-range snapshots don't mean as much if nobody else is backing you up with a pistol or a shotgun. Badlands is the only map where you don't have to rely on this as much, but the spots you can snipe from are usually very quiet so nobody wants to stick around there to watch your back.
The short round times and no respawns thing is a bit of a Catch 22. If the rounds were longer the respawn times would be even longer, but right now you don't really get enough time on the map to get your teeth into the experience. Counter-Strike worked better because it was something you could get into, but I don't think most TF2 players are actually fans of CS's plodding game style.
What really pisses me off is being told that I can't play the game I bought because someone on my team lost a round or because some random joined the server. You shouldn't be punished so severely. Sure, call me a loser and give the other team a +1, but don't take away the game you want me to play. That's just stupid and wrong on fundamental levels. Another player joined the server! Yay, more people have come to play TF2. We like more people playing this game, don't we? Oh wait now I'm just allowed to watch. Arena mode. Yay.
I was very dubious of this mode but I haven't been totally convinced it's crap. The maps themselves are very good and have massive replayability. It has some flaws but, even if these are ironed out, at the core you still have a watered-down game mode which is too short to be considered a good deathmatch and too deathmatchy to be a good use of TF2's classes. It's a half breed of a game mode. Mixed in with TF2 it's not too bad, but on its own it would be pretty unsatisfying. TF2's other modes prop this up and let it get away with the fact it's not really as entertaining as it should be, coming from Valve.
---
This is what I use whenever anyone tries to argue that crits A) aren't random and B) don't decide rounds:
[youtube]wzv8r4UTF9A[/youtube]
4 crits, 4 consecutive kills. Semi final victory to the luckier team (both are great teams and deserved a more even fight to the finish).
Adabiviak
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Speaking of which, Arena is one of the few maps where the Kritzkreig seems to work pretty well (and your team isn't complaining because you're using it). Healing a heavy who's slaughtering most of the other team with the 'kreig is probably the second most fun thing for me to do in TF2 (second only to hitting people with the flare gun).
