New Worldcraft is "out"

[dscowboy]

Ok, so word is that the leaked source code for Worldcraft compiles and runs. The question at hand, then, is whether to illegally use it to start building HL2 maps, or to ignore it and wait for the 'real' SDK release.

I'm kind of torn. On one hand, I'm not happy about the leak at all, I feel bad for Valve, and I want to do what I can to help them. On the other hand, we've all been just sitting here twiddling our thumbs for months waiting to find out what is really possible with HL2. Would it harm Valve to start making HL2 maps now?

Another thing to consider is that although the code was stolen Sept 19th, there could be changes made before release that would make maps with this leaked Worldcraft incompatible with the final version.

Thoughts?

 

[ozbirdboy]

Quote: Another thing to consider is that although the code was stolen Sept 19th, there could be changes made before release that would make maps with this leaked Worldcraft incompatible with the final version.

i was thinking that aswell, i dont know anything about coding and that, but i make maps, it sounds like it could work.

 

[dawdler]

Lets call it good manners not to use it. But yeah, the foremost thing is that it could easily change... Valve might even stick something in that would make leaked hammer maps incompatible with the final HL2. I know I would

 

[clay_9]

I'd say no, don't use it.

 

[IchI]

urrrr.....so your saying somone has actually compiled it. I don't care about manners etc... I wanna use the new hammer and get used to all the new tools inside it. I would rather do that than sit on my ass twiddling my thumbs talking about it been illiegal and not right. I have so many illiegal programs on my computer its a joke. Tbh if u wouldn;t use it because of manners and also because its illiegal then u really need to get some *alls.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

If you want to go against Valve's wishes and use it, then that's your lookout. However, you will not be discussing any aspect of it on here.

 

[clay_9]

Well, I guess some people do need more practice at mapping than others.......
so knock yourself out.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

How many times has it been said and even shown that the new hammer is practically identical to the old one. If you need practice, use the one of Hl1. There is no reason what so ever for breaking the law in this case. So i suggest you dont. I dont want to be condeming, but any decent person would do the right thing and wait.
Patience if one of the many lost virtues people need to learn again.

 

[The Mullinator]

You would be able to do more with HL1 hammer than with the new HL2 version anyway since the HL2 version probably doesn't have any entities yet. Its way more efficient to make a HL1 map then import it for HL2 once its released.

 

[IchI]

How many times has it been said and even shown that the new hammer is practically identical to the old one

Urrrr....so what about the terrain editor. Also the animation section (more advanced than last hammer) there are loads of new tools inside the hammer2 that people will need practice with before they get good with them. There are hole new ways of doing weather effects etc...

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Sorry to disappoint you, but there's no terrain editor in the leaked hammer.

 

[Ahhchuu]

theres a displacement map somewhere in it

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by PiMuRho
Sorry to disappoint you, but there's no terrain editor in the leaked hammer.

yeah, there is displacement mapping, which is used for terrain and such.


but anyways, you can't really use it for HL2, at least not properly, because as far as i know there is no FGD for HL2...

 

[clay_9]

hhmmzz wtf img tags aren't working...

 

[Shinobi]

dont use it,, if you want to prepare start practicing lightwave and making textures

 

[IchI]

o well to late now I already got it. Have fun waiting everyone.

 

[derby]

The HL .map format is very simple, and if the HL2 format is anything like as simple then there's not a lot they could do to make the old maps incompatible that a simple conversion program couldn't deal with.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with using the new editor for personal, practice, or experimental use, as long as you aren't distributing it, or any maps you create.

Before I download some amusing fake that probably contains a visrus, are we certain that there is a real working build of hammer out there? - Or are we not allowed to discuss that?

 

[TalRasha]

WHAT?? There is a worldcraft editor in the beta leak?

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

You can talk about it, so long as you dont talk about any details or where you can get it from.

Basically, you can acknowlage it exists

 

[Arsle^]

Actually there is a FGD in the leaked version... so there is no problem in building maps, except there is no csg.exe

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Which part of "You are not to discuss it here" are you having a problem understanding?

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Arsle^
Actually there is a FGD in the leaked version... so there is no problem in building maps, except there is no csg.exe

CSG isnt needed for HL2, CSG was for WAD's, but HL2 doesnt use wads

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

CSG divides brushes into triangles ready for BSP processing.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by PiMuRho
CSG divides brushes into triangles ready for BSP processing.

uhh, ok, well whatever it does it's not needed for HL2 and all i remember about it is using -wadautodetect switch *shrug*

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

It uses textures to subdivide brushes. If you've got a 512x512 wall covered with a repeating 128x128 texture, it'll split it into 16 128x128 chunks, then subdivide that into triangles.

This is why on large surfaces like rocks/cliff faces, you should scale your textures so you get less subdivisions.

 

[Papau]

Get Q3 and Radiant. Use any of a number of mesh based terrain generators or create your own from mesh. They will import to HL2 with far less conversion required than HL maps. The textures will be in the right format, too.

 

[Papau]

Originally posted by PiMuRho
It uses textures to subdivide brushes. If you've got a 512x512 wall covered with a repeating 128x128 texture, it'll split it into 16 128x128 chunks, then subdivide that into triangles.

This is why on large surfaces like rocks/cliff faces, you should scale your textures so you get less subdivisions.

Texture size has no bearing on triangle count in HL2.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I was talking about HL2?

 

[Papau]

Well, actually texture size has no bearing on triangle count in HL, either. Your knowledge of engine design and compiler function is appalling.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Your attitude is far more appalling.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I will continue to believe what I stated. Your opinion does not count as evidence.

Edit: found this:

http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?doc=1015285823-77031100

Scroll down to number 44. Thx.

 

[Parasite]

Originally posted by Papau
Well, actually texture size has no bearing on triangle count in HL, either. Your knowledge of engine design and compiler function is appalling.

Every "tile" of a texture is split into a triangle, faces are split every 240 units during compile, and every brush face is split if smaller than 240 or the texture on its face. These are the restrictions of the engine that have annoyed map designers for 5 years...Have you ever mapped for HL?

 

[Papau]

I mapped for HL for about 1 1/2 years and got very annoyed with it's limitations, so I left. I'm aware of the affects of texture resizing on light calculations. But, this is the first I've heard about it with respect to VIS calculations. If I am wrong, I humbly apologize to PiMuRho and all I have offended.

 

[L i P k I y]

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