No detail textures in CS:S or HL2?

FictiousWill

FictiousWill

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None of the CS:S or HL2 screens I've seen have detail textures. Detail textures mask texture pixellation by fading in a tiling 'detail' texture on specific materials, be it wood, concrete, sand, you name it. Detail textures are not a next generation feature, games such as DeusEx1 on the unreal 1 engine supported them to great effect. Here is an example of detail textures at work in UT2k4:

No detail textures:
http://img58.exs.cx/img58/6840/Shot1.jpg

Detail textures:
http://img58.exs.cx/img58/8955/Shot2.jpg

Does CS:S or the source engine as a whole support detail textures? Is it an option in the CS:S beta and nobody's turning it on? The sand/floor texture is very pixelated and lacks detail texturing in many of the 'great' screenshots I've seen. The rendered strider posted earlier by a valve employee also sported no detail textures.

Are detail textures in CS:S? If so, please post example screens.
 
Only OpenGL supports detail textures IIRC.

They're just for close-up anyways.
 
Nope, detail textures are not OpenGL exclusive.

btw another good example of detail textures in action is FarCry. The texture for the entire map is usually only 4096x4096 to stretch over multiple virtual kilometers. All the close-up ground in FarCry is detail textures.
 
Even Condition Zero has detail textures. I don't see why Source wouldn't support it.
 
FictiousWill said:
None of the CS:S or HL2 screens I've seen have detail textures. Detail textures mask texture pixellation by fading in a tiling 'detail' texture on specific materials, be it wood, concrete, sand, you name it. Detail textures are not a next generation feature, games such as DeusEx1 on the unreal 1 engine supported them to great effect. Here is an example of detail textures at work in UT2k4:

No detail textures:
http://img58.exs.cx/img58/6840/Shot1.jpg

Detail textures:
http://img58.exs.cx/img58/8955/Shot2.jpg

Does CS:S or the source engine as a whole support detail textures? Is it an option in the CS:S beta and nobody's turning it on? The sand/floor texture is very pixelated and lacks detail texturing in many of the 'great' screenshots I've seen. The rendered strider posted earlier by a valve employee also sported no detail textures.

Are detail textures in CS:S? If so, please post example screens.
Click to expand...

I don't really know if CS:S supports detailed textures. People are saying that alot of graphics and video options are disabled for the beta. Detailed textures could very well be one of them.
 
SubKamran said:
Yah, it is a beta after all.
Click to expand...

True, though detail textures are about the same tech generation as bullet decals. They hardly take up any space as textures (they tile a lot) and aren't hard for the gfx unit to push onscreen. Plus they look fantastic and eliminate pixelation.

mortiz said:
Only one way to find out. E-mail VALVe.
Click to expand...

Who do you suggest? Newell himself, or is there someone directly in charge of graphics?

EDIT: ok nvm, SubKaman and mortiz did it. Did you add a link to this thread?
 
SubKamran said:
Done. :p

10char
Click to expand...

me too :D Hopefully one of us will get a response.

I e-mailed Greg Coomer, since he's often around the boards and has influence on things like textures I think.
 
mortiz said:
me too :D Hopefully one of us will get a response.

I e-mailed Greg Coomer, since he's often around the boards and has influence on things like textures I think.
Click to expand...

And I emailed Rick...so we'll see :p
 
I'd normally believe that valve would use bump-mapping to make things like those rocks in that Ut2k4 screen and the like considering the source tech demo and considering that other next-gen engine games like Doom 3 and Far cry use it.
 
I think if you look at the high res videos, the grainy bump mapping looks a lot better than any detail texture as you move past it. Perhaps you could have both, though I wonder how that would look...

Maybe that's why they never used them, they don't look right with bump-mapped surfaces..
 
FictiousWill said:
Look at the ground at the bottom of the screens like this:
http://www.elc-team.com/drtool/Screenshots CS : Source Top10/HL2 2004-08-12 06-06-12-96.JPG

or this:
http://www.elc-team.com/drtool/Screenshots CS : Source Top10/16.jpg

The sand definately needs detail texturing. Bumpmapping and normal mapping is cool and all that, but this is a resolution issue, not a lighting/bump/normal issue.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, but I was initally talking about the Ut2k4 shot.

Anyway, those look like detail textures in the second screen on the ground (not wall), although you are right about the walls and the complete first screen.
 
Yes.

From: Kamran [mailto:...]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:01 PM
To: Rick Ellis
Subject: Detail textures

Are detail textures supported in Source engine? More importantly, HL2 and CS:S.
Click to expand...

There we go!
 
Look at Doom 3's textures.. they are horrribly low res... like HL1 resolution or something, and yet they manage to look decent due to excellent bump mapping

Btw awesome screenies! Are they on medium settings or high?

Ahh the first is on medium detail. You can't really complain about graphics unless it's on full detail :bonce:
 
Shuzer said:
Support and used are two different questions.. that's not very clear :|
Click to expand...

You people need everything spelled out don't you? Now I have to reply...poor guy. :imu:
 
SubKamran said:
You people need everything spelled out don't you? Now I have to reply...poor guy. :imu:
Click to expand...

lol, I hate to be like that, but it's true! :D
 
Well, I for one don't even know if detail textures are used in CSS, but the cyber cafe I went tos top spec machine was a 2500+ w/256mem and a 4200ti, which is hardly what I'd consider a 'gaming machine' but they did.

From playing it EVERYTHING seemed to be switched off from specular mapping (the tiled shiny floor in dust), to hi res textures.. and I kinda put it down to the fact that it was a DX8 card, but I doubt it.

Most likley stuff was switched off for the beta, which is a shame, because it did look rather lame (or lamer than I wanted my first experience with source to be).
 
Wait for it to go public (public beta), then people with kickass computers (not me) can really push all the options and then we can see some good screenshots.
 
ya, usually, people with comps at home have better stuff than cafes, annd im getting my 9800pro today, im so happy
 
ktimekiller said:
ya, usually, people with comps at home have better stuff than cafes, annd im getting my 9800pro today, im so happy
Click to expand...

I'm getting mine on tuesday :p
 
Lol Im Getting Mine Today~!!!!! Im Going To Die!!! Weeeeeeeeeeee 9800pro Weeeeeeee
 
Yeah, but what makes you think Valve is gonna enable all graphics options for the ATI/CZ beta? Have they said something about this?
 
To my knowledge the only option that was disabled in the menu system was some shadow effect, so what makes you think that stuff is disabled anyway?
 
benson said:
To my knowledge the only option that was disabled in the menu system was some shadow effect, so what makes you think that stuff is disabled anyway?
Click to expand...

Shader, not shadow. Almost got it though! :thumbs:
 
SubKamran said:
Shader, not shadow. Almost got it though! :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Meh. I didn't pay much attention to it! Knew it started with an 'S' anyhoo. Only reason I was in the menu was to change the res from 1024 x 768 to 800 x 600 b'cos the PC I was using was lagging like hell.
 
Yes, you've told us many many times.
 
Keep the "hooray I'm getting a gfx card" shit out of this thread please.

Why would Valve leave graphics options out of the beta? Wouldn't they want to test any and all possible configurations and settings?
 
FictiousWill said:
Keep the "hooray I'm getting a gfx card" shit out of this thread please.

Why would Valve leave graphics options out of the beta? Wouldn't they want to test any and all possible configurations and settings?
Click to expand...

Well some settings are specific to certain hardware, which is why some options could be greyed out.
 
Granted, but again, detail textures don't need new or varying hardware. They were in unreal1, for heaven's sake.
 
i have a card that is twice as fast as yours lol and as far as the detail issue if i was making a game and threw a beta at people for the first time i wouldnt have all the bells and whistles turned on for people to see or it wouldnt be as breath taking when it is in front of us when we first play the game, what do you guys think
 
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