Not what I expected

hmm... this is not good...
but the gun looks awesome!
 
Yeah, this totally ruins the game for me. I mean, I thought Valve CARED about us! Then they suprise us with.....this?!?

:p
 
Well, welcome to the beta of a game then; perhaps - since it's CS:S you should file a question off to Valve and see if they're aware of the bug and if it's more prevalent than one screenshot.
 
Things will never be perfect, you can't expect everything to look exactly right. I've not seen a game that doesnt have clipping problems yet, I should imagine it is very hard to make it even that good.
 
DaCane said:
Take a good look at the left barrel. The two objects are blended! I thought the main goal of the physic engine was to avoid things like this. Apparently this didn't work out in this case.

http://www.planethalflife.com/features/articles/csspreview/phl_css_1.jpg

Now that was a bummer. :hmph: What do you think?
Click to expand...


Oh wow clipping in a beta, like that never happened before.

ITS A BETA, ITS USED TO ALLOW BUGS TO BE FOUND AND FIXED WHAT DO YOU EXPECT????!!!!

Thats what I think

;) ;) ;) ;)
 
I heard an explanation that one object was calculated client-side, while the other was server-side.

Either way it's hardly horrible. And i'd bet Valve is working on it, since it's a beta and all.
 
I think I will never play this game.. EVAR!!!111
 
Mechagodzilla said:
I heard an explanation that one object was calculated client-side, while the other was server-side.
Click to expand...
that's right. and that's probably what happened here. the barrels are definitley calculated on the server side, as they can be used for cover, and everyone should be able to see them in the same place at the same time. there's no reason to do this for incidental debris like a cinderblock.
 
Concrete block = client side.

Barrel = server side.


The two may not interact. This will not be apparent in single player games such as HL2, there is nothing wrong with the physics engine.

Been posted on a million times :p
 
OMGGGSSZZZOORRR!!1!1111!1one!11onwwee!

It s teh like ho w gordans walks upp laders wit teh gunss outs! and!1 oadf ists a haxors obviuslty!!1
 
OMG the barrel clips into another object.. OMG the walls of my life fall appart, the demons in my head come to get me.. I am DOOMED

IDIOTS!!!
 
Mechagodzilla said:
I heard an explanation that one object was calculated client-side, while the other was server-side.

Either way it's hardly horrible. And i'd bet Valve is working on it, since it's a beta and all.
Click to expand...

exactly right.

that cinder block is not important, so its not calculated server-side (it would create mass congestion/strain if all small objects did)

the way it works is, if the barrel intercepts the cinder block (like in your pic) the calculation is not significant enough to affect gameplay, and therefore not calculated and broadcasted.

now if the cinder block was flung from an explosion into a barrel and knocked it over, then it would be significant enough to broadcast.

in other words "big objects" (things that are important) like barrels, are important. smaller objects (insignificant to gameplay, but add to immersion and character of a level) like cans, bottles etc are not.

beta or not, its just not worth the net congestion to do the calculations and broadcast them.. especially with 40 people on a server messing around with physics objects (= dead servers and clients)

you have to make a trade-off somewhere, and I for one am glad they made the decision... ok I will be honest I would like it to be more realistic and stuff but hey, we arent there yet in terms of net/cpu.

another thing to bear in mind, physics in CS:S are an afterthought, they are trying to maintain that CS feeling.
 
Yey, funny comments :p

Its a beta, sure, but this little thing is very basic in the havok engine, so this should not happen from the very beginning of the HL2 beta. Altough they have altered the havok code heavily, so there is a bigger chance that this could occur.

Either way, I don't want to see stuff like this in the final version.
 
DaCane said:
Yey, funny comments :p

Its a beta, sure, but this little thing is very basic in the havok engine, so this should not happen from the very beginning of the HL2 beta. Altough they have altered the havok code heavily, so there is a bigger chance that this could occur.

Either way, I don't want to see stuff like this in the final version.
Click to expand...

Im afraid in multiplayer u are always going to see this, The havok engine works fine in singleplayer, when u have to calculate everything over the net it becomes a different matter, You either accept the client/server balance, or have shitty netcode, its ur choice, its not valves fault its the lack of fiber optic 100 meg lines for every user !

When your playing (which i have) these problems are not noticable because the smaller objects have absaloutly no bearing on the game, the barrels do so they need to be positioned the same for everybody, if it really pisses u off that much when ur playing, im afraid ur not gonna be happy in mp for quite a while :O
 
DaCane said:
Yey, funny comments :p

Its a beta, sure, but this little thing is very basic in the havok engine, so this should not happen from the very beginning of the HL2 beta. Altough they have altered the havok code heavily, so there is a bigger chance that this could occur.

Either way, I don't want to see stuff like this in the final version.
Click to expand...

as I said, its not the engine, they chose to do calculations this way.

in HL2 sp the physics are very robust... in MP .. well we dont know.. but in CS:S they are extremely dumbed down.. still fun to have in MP, but nowhere near impressive.
 
Interpenetration of physics objects will happen, but this is a particularly bad example of it. There is even a demo of interpenetration prevention in the Rockit physics demo package. The physics engine should have taken care of this, I don't know why it wouldn't. While running through objects and checking for proximity and penetration the barrel should have popped off the block. Even taking the server/client aspect of it into consideration, the client should recognize that the cinderblock is calssified as 'unimportant' and should push it away for that client.

Those who scream BETA whenever a problem is found or suggested are morons. For the last time, Valve didn't release a beta for shits and giggles, it's to test and report bugs such as physics interpenetration. Anyway, THIS IS NOT A CLIPPING ERROR, THE ZBUFFER IS WORKING PERFECTLY. It's INTERPENETRATION, get it right.

It's the beta, it's the beta! Well no f*ucking shit it's the beta, and here's an error. Valve isn't some magical dev studio that's infallible, for gods sake, wake up to the fact that the cs:s beta is a good indication of what cs:s will finally be!

I'm sick and tired of the "that's not how it'll be fixed in the final release" excuse garbage. If someone doesn't draw attention to it then it sure as hell WILL be in the final release. Please somebody show me in the Cs:s readme where it states 'there are bugs in this beta but by all means please keep them to yourselves, rest assured that any and all possible bugs have already been found and remedied and this beta is essentially pointless.'

Source isn't some gift from the gods, and it sickens me to see so many people blindly defending it from some imaginary evil bug-finder who dares question the divinity of the perfect engine.

If there's an error, discuss it. If there's a feature that you want to see, suggest it. If there's something you like, show it. If there's something you don't like, show it too. But do not blindly and stupidly blast people with "beta beta beta!" Everybody knows it's a beta, and discussion is THE FREAKING POINT.
 
DaCane said:
so this should not happen from the very beginning of the HL2 beta.
Click to expand...

This isn't the HL2 beta though it's the CSS beta.

What that screenshot shows is perfectly normal for a multiplayer game like CSS. The clipping is a tradeoff for less lag.

The clipping will certainly not appear in the HL2 single-player.
 
It won't happen in HL2 I just told you this.. it's a multiplayer thing...
 
Ok, i understand the thing now.

[SARCASM]Now im going to sell my pc and try the best to avoid everything that involves hl2. This really piss me off. [/SARCASM]
 
this isnt a bug ... valve make this because all the players will be stuck with this 'crap' who i on the ground ... it's make this way that we can walk through this small objects...
 
frankly I dont give a shit about some little stuff like this! man get a life! this game is not about berrels rolling on a cinderblock, or is it? I'll tell you waht!? Get yourself LEGO and play phisics with it you'll feel better!
 
FictiousWill said:
etc.
Click to expand...

Um, what's being pointed out is that Valve chose to have this clipping, as the lesser of two evils. It's either this or massive lag.

And we're not saying that the beta process will address it out of faith alone. It's out of the fact that he's telling us, and not valve. We can't change the game, so we're saying that valve is probably trying.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Um, what's being pointed out is that Valve chose to have this clipping, as the lesser of two evils. It's either this or massive lag.
Click to expand...

Didn't FictiousWill say the block should've been moved by the barrel since the barrel takes precedence over the block?
 
blahblahblah said:
Didn't FictiousWill say the block should've been moved by the barrel since the barrel takes precedence over the block?
Click to expand...

If physics objects are assigned priority for network communications, (which I believe has been confirmed to be true), then yes the cinderblock should be the one to move, though physics would suggest the barrel to be more likely to roll off than the block to slide out. The little objects should do their best to stay out of higher priority physics objects, from what I've heard.

ValveBULGE said:
frankly I dont give a shit about some little stuff like this! man get a life! this game is not about berrels rolling on a cinderblock, or is it? I'll tell you waht!? Get yourself LEGO and play phisics with it you'll feel better!
Click to expand...

If it happens once, it can happen anywhere for any object. How many physics interaction errors before you start to care? Where do you draw a distinction between ignorable errors and errors that affect gameplay? Errors worth reporting to valve and errors that should be ignored? I don't know about you, but I'd rather not play Cs:s or HL2 while 'ignoring' errors every now and then. Hey, if I ignore errors, I can play Kreed and pretend it's HL2! Try this at home, kids!
 
FictiousWill said:
If it happens once, it can happen anywhere for any object. How many physics interaction errors before you start to care? Where do you draw a distinction between ignorable errors and errors that affect gameplay? Errors worth reporting to valve and errors that should be ignored? I don't know about you, but I'd rather not play Cs:s or HL2 while 'ignoring' errors every now and then. Hey, if I ignore errors, I can play Kreed and pretend it's HL2! Try this at home, kids!
Click to expand...


Except that this is not an error.

Unless Valve makes every object server side, which is too heavy on bandwidth (think why there are no real physics in Far Cry MP), then this will happen when you play with HL2 games online.
 
This is because of the crappy way CSS handles physics. You have a push barrier around you, when you near physic objects theyre pushed away, that object then doesnt clip properly if its reacting to your push, so it goes through things.


Whereas in the HL2 leak it didnt work like that, I can only hope HL2 uses the basic method of ME pushing things, and not my invisible outer-self.
 
TheWart said:
Except that this is not an error.

Unless Valve makes every object server side, which is too heavy on bandwidth (think why there are no real physics in Far Cry MP), then this will happen when you play with HL2 games online.
Click to expand...

Well, according to VALVe, every object in a map could easily be made server side for the physics calculations, and it'd still perform great. They just don't suggest doing that for a heavily physics oriented map. But, something like dust.. I can't see it being a problem
 
B.Calhoun said:
B E T A
Now shut it.
Click to expand...

Congratulations, you're a confirmed moron.

TheWart said:
Unless Valve makes every object server side, which is too heavy on bandwidth (think why there are no real physics in Far Cry MP), then this will happen when you play with HL2 games online.
Click to expand...

That is very true, though I would think the client's physics engine would move the less important objects that the client sees to prevent interpenetration.

edit: Has anybody tried to repeat the cinderblock/barrel experiment?
 
B.Calhoun said:
*snip*

Now shut it.
Click to expand...

This isn't a CS:S Beta, it is more of a Source engine test. That is all. A beta is meant for balancing and last minute bugs. This CS:S beta is meant to check for compatability and how well the netcode stands up. There should be very few bugs with this test.

So if a bug does crop up, Valve probably won't notice that because they are looking for compatability/net code problems. Not barrels going through bricks.
 
Things like this suck, but from the way it's coded this can't really be fixed without making the net code worse.
 
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