NPCs can grab weapons

[XtAkm4p]

thats nice, btu what if u want them back? gabe said in an email beta tester were shooting barney etc to get their guns back, which obviously wasnt the gameplay experience they had intended.

that said, how do you thikn they will implement that feature in order for us to get back the gun you gave them?

i dont think they made AI for the manipulator, so ur screwed if u give someone that.

my friend suggests pressing the E key on someone and a menu would pop up, saying "request weapon" along with "give order"

discuss

 

[el Chi]

If someone handed me a gun in a combat situation and then asked for it back I'd be more than a little reluctant. There was a menu system in The Thing that implemented that whole thing very well, especially with the "Trust System" that it had. However I don't reckon that'll be a part of HL2. Perhaps you have to trade? What if you give away your crowbar and can't get it back, would you get another later on?
And I doubt the AI has the capacity to work with the manipulator effectively no matter how good it is. Maybe we'll be surprised?

 

[Tommmo]

I really loved the trust system in The Thing, worked fantastically. However, I think you're right - it probably wouldnt suit the Half Life series, different characters and they're not going to freak out on you [as important NPCs are crucial to the story, so it wouldnt work too well with them losing trust in you].

I think a trading system would work better, a small overlay interface which displays their current armour, health and what weapons they are currently carring in various slots if you wish to trade.

Who knows? Lets wait and see.

 

[ferd]

that menu thing is realistic...but not that cool

 

[commando]

wow.yea i heard you can give weapons to allies, and orders for tactics! how cool.

yea there will be some way for you to get your weapons back, why wouldn't there be

 

[MatTriX]

I think I like the first idea suggested (press the use button for list of commands) I was thinking about mod ideas and I wanted to add a feature such as this to mine (kinda like shadowrun plus a few other games and my own ideas) but instead of pauseing the game (like some other games do) while choosing, or no pause at all I thought it would be cool if it slowed the game (like Max Payne™ bullet time, repspectivly) while makeing your desicion. but I don't know if this would be such a great idea for a action/adventure/fps game like Half-Life 2

Maybe if it was a second use kinda button for misc tasks, M-E-H I don't know

 

[Murray_H]

You could just use a seperate key for an "Ask For Weapon Back" command, and the AI works out whether it is in a battle and can drop the weapon. That would be cool if you ask barney for your gun back and he says summit like "cant you see i'm busy?" and when hes killed the thing he throws it on the floor/to you and says "there you go, you impatient git"

 

[el Chi]

Yeah it'd be very interesting to see an NPC reply with a Charlton Heston-esque "From my cold dead hands" response to that command. A response that can of course be arranged.

<Sounds of crowbar meeting flesh followed by the flump of a collapsing body>

 

[jat]

I think they will go for a seperate button all together but its kinda cool u[grading an npc from a crappy gun to a shotgun .

 

[el Chi]

'twas always nice in The Thing taking away their shotgun and giving them a cattle prod or blow-torch. Hehe

 

[Mr. Redundant]

....... "the Thing" although a good movie back in the day
sucked as a game, I havent seen something that buggy and that half-thought out in a long time... well I have but The thing reached beyond the call of duty when it came to crappyness

 

[Apos]

Gabe was actually talking about the orignial Barneys: there were several points in which the best way to get an early weapon was to kill Barney, or at least allow him to be killed.

What worries me is that maybe they don't want you to try to kill Barney because you can't kill Barney. Of course, I can't think of any other way to do it in a game that demands characters exist for story purposes, but I still like to be able to do it at least on replay.

 

[BlumenKohl]

Well when you're in groups with people, in reality you would give the weapons to the best marksman, especially if he asks for it, otherwise it would be the biggest waste of the weapon.

 

[el Chi]

Well, each to their own Mr. Redundant. Personally I thought The Thing was great fun. Not spectacular, and so designed for console that it hurt. Yeah it was buggy, but not so much that it ruined the game (please illustrate an example of a bug that made it exasperating and a chore to play). Really quite a good game for the short time it lasts.

Apos - I reckon Gabe meant that the playtester was having trouble/didn't know how to retreive the weapon he'd donated to Barney and decided the way forward was death. Intelligent playtester.

 

[dis]

I remember killing Barney in HL1 to get his pistol right at the beginning, and I could see how this could be a problem for giving the NPC's weapons in HL2. But in HL1 there were multiple Barneys. Do you guys think we're to expect the same in HL2?

 

[commando]

YES!

i mean there won't jus be ONE barney there will be more to make it more of a real tactical battle.

i mean you will have to give them the weapons, do the orders. SAVE IT.

then try out LOL

 

[dis]

Huh?

I'm talking about the fact that in HL1 you could kill "Barney," only to come upon another officer that looked the same ("Barney") later in the game. Obviously they did it to save on memory, but I assume this time you won't be able to kill Barney? Who knows, but I have no clue what you're ^^ talking about.

 

[adio2001]

I doubt you will be able to kill the 'main' characters this time around. Seeing as Gabe said in a response that if you shoot at Alyx she would get mad and shoot you back.

 

[Fat Tony!]

i think they will just scrap the idea, if u give someone a weapon they arnt exactly gonna give it back

 

[Totalkrusher]

It would be very disappointing to not be able to kill barney, or any character for that matter. While I understand why Gabe wants to set up the game in such a way that the player is not inclined to kill an ally (to get a gun back or whatnot), making some characters invulnerable because they are important is... well... dumb. I'm sure he is aware that alot of people derived added enjoyment from inventing interesting ways to kill friendlies. No units were invulnerable in HL1 and I hope this does not change in HL2.

Commando, there is only one Barney. Barney is a specific person, and unless he's been cloned, there will only be one. The units that will give you the "tactical battles" are those militia units seen in the Barney and Strider videos.

I'm assuming that you, Gordon Freeman, will be of a higher "rank", so to speak, than most of the units you will fight along. Thus, you would be able to "order" them to give you a gun back, even though they would, in real life, not want to give it back (they would still have to).

 

[Totalkrusher]

On another note, this system of giving NPC's weapons would work well with a limited armament system (ie. not being able to carry every weapon). If you can't bring along Gun A (already full inventory), then give it to an NPC so he can assist you more effectively. This would also allow you personal access to this weapon later if you deemed it more useful down the road (ie. you ask for your gun back and give him something you no longer need as much).

 

[dis]

I hope you can still kill friendlies

I hope that they don't make the friendlies invincible or end the game if you kill them. That would just be a little lame. It was lame how the cops all looked the same in HL1, but I'd prefer that all characters in HL2 are different. Like the "Barney" type cast character doesn't always have the same face, etc. That way you could kill them without screwing up the story and making it a little more realistic in that there isn't multiple copies of the same guy in the game. As far as killing Alyx though, I don't know. She seems so tied into the games story like the G-man that they might have to make her invincible or something. Hopefully they'll just make it so that you can't give NPC's weapons. I don't see a huge need for it if hey simply equip them adequately to begin with.

Edit: As long as Barney does not take a large active part in the plot and he can be considered just another freedom fighter (or whatever) then I see no reason why we won't be able to kill him.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Re: I hope you can still kill friendlies

Originally posted by dis
I hope that they don't make the friendlies invincible or end the game if you kill them. That would just be a little lame. It was lame how the cops all looked the same in HL1, but I'd prefer that all characters in HL2 are different. Like the "Barney" type cast character doesn't always have the same face, etc. That way you could kill them without screwing up the story and making it a little more realistic in that there isn't multiple copies of the same guy in the game. As far as killing Alyx though, I don't know. She seems so tied into the games story like the G-man that they might have to make her invincible or something. Hopefully they'll just make it so that you can't give NPC's weapons. I don't see a huge need for it if hey simply equip them adequately to begin with.

Edit: As long as Barney does not take a large active part in the plot and he can be considered just another freedom fighter (or whatever) then I see no reason why we won't be able to kill him.

Think it through.

Which would you prefer?

1) You kill barney, screen fades to black, you lose, you start from your last quick save.

2) You kill barney, nothing happens, you continue playing for twenty minutes, quick saving as you go, you reach your objective only to find that u need him to finish.

*applause* *applause*

You have to restart the last 30 minutes of gameplay.

 

[Chris D]

This is how it works:

In HL1 there were two types of NPCs - Security Guards and Scientists.

Security guards all looked the same, and scientists all looked the same apart from the fact that there were 4 types for variation. (simply because you were supposed to see more than one scientist at a time, but generally never more than one security guard).

Unintentionally the security guard became known as Barney and a key figure to HL1 simply because of the game's success.

This time around, as he's a familiar face fromt he first installment, Barney will be a unique character that is seriously involved in the plot. He will not be someone you can kill, just to come across later on, simply because he has a nice 9mm.

However, even though not crucial to the storyline as such, the scientists and security guards were occasionally an intergral part of the gameplay and you required them for their ability to access security scanners and other areas. In this case if you executed them the game would end because you weren't able to complete the game without them. In HL2 it will work on exactly the same principle - you kill Alyx or Barney at any point then the game will end because these are unique characters that are an intergral part of the gameplay. But there will be many more NPCs that won't, so you'll still be able to have the satisfaction of getting your gun off if you want, and it won't effect the game at all.

But Alyx, Barney and Dr. Kleiner are a much bigger part of the storyline than they ever were, therefore we need them, therefore if you kill them - Game Over.

Other scientist, soldiers, resistance - happy killing

 

[SnowBall]

If the character system is just as big as they say it is, I doubt I'll have it in me to kill any of my allies.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Yeah, I'm wondering how they would implement that also. Definatelly not a menu or anything of that sort. HL2 is all about realism and a big menu in front of your face is anything but. Preferably it will be a set of give/take weapon keys.

Now as far as killing NPC's - I don't think they are gona give you the "black screen", that would be too easy (and annoying, possibly). I bet they only put Barney in places where you're certain to die without him (i.e. if the door is not opened in time - and only Barney can open the door, 20 combine soldiers catch up to you and you're dead)

 

[EVIL]

hmm.. maby that is where DOG comes in

gabe alsready said something about whenever you shoot at alyx, she'l get really pissed and shoot back. if you kill herr then DOG might kill you

wich takes me to this. if you shoot at a crutial game character you'l get a warning by making the character mad if you miss, shoot back if you hit him/her and being killed by DOG when you kill him or her

 

[Blud Stane]

dude i'ma shoot dog in the back of the head then point at the scientist

 

[MrTeatime]

Originally posted by Chris_D
Unintentionally the security guard became known as Barney

If you look in pak0.pak, you'll see that the security guard files are labeled "barney" and that the "man in a suit" files are labaled "gman." That's where the names came from. "gman" is almost undoubtedly short for "government man." They use that style of abbreviation in the pak. "human grunt" becomes "hgrunt", etc.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Originally posted by Blud Stane
dude i'ma shoot dog in the back of the head then point at the scientist

Dogs a robot, and we dont even know if he looks like a dog.

 

[Apos]

I don't think they are gona give you the "black screen", that would be too easy (and annoying, possibly).

They did this in Half-Life.

 

[el Chi]

I imagine you'll be able to kill piddly bog-standard resistance members as long as you don't need them to open a door/complete an objective. I don't see whay you'll be able to kill Barney as he'll probably be a staple of the story-line - fade to black.
As for DOG avenging Alyx's death, then what happens if you have god mode on? Will DOG also be invincible?

 

[OCybrManO]

Who knows, maybe if certain people die the story changes to allow you to continue on but you will have to find alternate routes... until we get our hands on the game it's all speculation unless it comes from Valve.

 

[el Chi]

I have serious doubts that HL2 will be son non-linear... This isn't DX2 after all. <Rubs thighs in anticipation>

 

[Chris D]

Originally posted by MrTeatime
If you look in pak0.pak, you'll see that the security guard files are labeled "barney" and that the "man in a suit" files are labaled "gman." That's where the names came from. "gman" is almost undoubtedly short for "government man." They use that style of abbreviation in the pak. "human grunt" becomes "hgrunt", etc.

Yes I'm aware of that, but Valve never intended for Barney to become so popular, and they probably never intended for us to use the name that they'd given him. He was just supposed to be some guy that worked there.

 

[Blud Stane]

rub's thighs? eww

Ok, let's just say that if a Barney has a weapon i want.. i'll be releasing antlions on his ass. I think killing the characters is one of the Half-Life freedoms... the story will evolve around your actions i'm sure.

 

[Wesisapie]

yes, that was the glory of halflife, the freedom with linearity.
but they are just trying to make it all linear now, which gets to me.

i remember the first time i came up the lift inthe hazard course, i must have killed those barneys and scientists and sentry guns about 50 times before i actually did it seriously.
it was the best time i ever had in a computer game.

 

[DarkelP]

hey, I was thinking, maybe we could email Gabe about it? Thing is, what you've gotta think of, is that if say Barney gets ripped apart by ant lions, will that in turn end the game? Because if thats so, then there could be 'make sure *insert name here* doesnt die' objectives If there are those kind of objectives, then it'll be annoying. Because the AI in most games isnt good enough to stop them from running on from you, or such thing. But from what I've seen of Half-Life 2's AI so far, it shouldnt be a problem. And anyway, Barney and other characters must be able to look after themselves if they've been alive so long...