Obama Torture Photo Turnaround!

[Jintor]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/dismay-over-obama-uturn-on-abuse-photos-20090514-b4t2.html

BARACK OBAMA'S stunning reversal on a promise to release hundreds of photographs showing abuse of people in US military custody in Afghanistan and Iraq appears headed for the Supreme Court.

The President invoked national security to oppose a court order to release the photographs, angering many supporters, who had believed he would usher in new era of transparency.

Mr Obama said last month he would make public hundreds of images in Pentagon files, following a successful legal action by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The photos were used as evidence in criminal investigations of US soldiers accused of abusing prisoners during the Bush administration. They are believed to be similar in nature to photos already seen of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30725189/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8048774.stm

I'd think with all you angry people here in Politics someone would have posted this already, but ha-ah, I'm the one with the scoop.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

So much for change. Now his in the white house he's already doing U-Turns. Using the excuse that the photos would show off the American army is a negative way is not acceptable. They did it, and hiding it doesn't make everything better. They should be released so people should know what disgusting acts the armed forces are up to.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Hrmprrhghrgh.

Release 'em.

 

[Gunner]

So much for change. Now his in the white house he's already doing U-Turns. Using the excuse that the photos would show off the American army is a negative way is not acceptable. They did it, and hiding it doesn't make everything better. They should be released so people should know what disgusting acts the armed forces are up to.

Anyone with a radio knows happened, pictures won't do anyone any good.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I don't understand why Obama is trying to appease republicans, they will hate him no matter what he does.

 

[CptStern]

this is going to sound unlike me but I think in some ways they may be right; releasing them is in national security interests. There's some evidence that suggests the release of the abu Gharib photos galvanised people who would have otherwise remained neutral to action agains the US. the torture photos were the best recruitment tools ever to come out of iraq. If you read some of the FBI interrogation files of US detainees you'll see that many of them signed up to fight in outrage of the torture and abuse of iraqis at american hands. ANyways I think releasing the photos is the right thing to do (justice served) however it might just lead to more problems. but really the US has no one to blame but itself. Hanging Bush in effigy and rounding up his stooges and locking them away till they're even older and greyer would go a long way to mend the perception of the US as a human rights abuser and hypocrite

 

[Sparta]

I see the logic in it, but on top of not pursuing the Bush administration for committing war crimes and doing a u-turn on this, he's really giving the opposition a lot of ammunition by playing into their hand and by doing this u-turn.

 

[speedbump]

The President did the right thing. The wrong-doers have already been court-marshalled and erstwhile punished. Obama's ppl verified that the Pentagon didn't coverup anything related-to the pix and abuses.

 

[Absinthe]

The photos should be released because it's high time people started to get familiar with what's carried out in the name of our national security. The photos may cause adverse reactions, but we can't continue to foster an environment where our own citizens are only dimly and abstractly aware of these things. Actual pictures of these events offer a dose of perspective that words in a memo and numbered statistics can't.

 

[Maturin]

Release all the documents in detail and we'll buy it. Transparency is about information, and the photos don't have any information that isn't on paper somewhere. And it's harder to make propaganda out of a memo.

 

[Absinthe]

Since when is photography devoid of information? A photo can be transcribed for all its facts, but surely that comes at the cost of some of its essence (for lack of a better word). Can something like this be fully conveyed in a few lines of text?

I remember when the Bush administration was trying to block the release of photos showing the coffins of dead US troops. They argued it was disrespectful and unnecessary, adding nothing. But I disagree. Acknowledging that there are real dead bodies behind death toll numbers we're bombarded with is probably necessary for some citizens to take responsibility for their vote and the policies they support.

What's different about this case? I can only hope this is temporary and the photos are released eventually in a timely manner. Maybe the security risk is too large right now, but I don't buy it.

 

[MJ12]

Surprise, surprise.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I've never noticed it before.
But that kid is making an excellent D:

 

[staticprimer]

As much as I would like to see Bush & Co. get their comeuppance, I can understand why Obama wants to keep the focus on things that are going on right now instead of prosecuting things that happened in the past. There is just too much to do to waste political capital on things that, in the grand scheme of things, would not do very much to improve the country and the problems it is facing. Once the economy, health care, Pakistan/Afghanistan, and a whole host of other things get sorted out, then maybe we can get back to it. Above all else, it is better to just move on and not make the same mistakes.

 

[Maturin]

Since when is photography devoid of information? A photo can be transcribed for all its facts, but surely that comes at the cost of some of its essence (for lack of a better word). Can something like this be fully conveyed in a few lines of text?

I remember when the Bush administration was trying to block the release of photos showing the coffins of dead US troops. They argued it was disrespectful and unnecessary, adding nothing. But I disagree. Acknowledging that there are real dead bodies behind death toll numbers we're bombarded with is probably necessary for some citizens to take responsibility for their vote and the policies they support.

What's different about this case? I can only hope this is temporary and the photos are released eventually in a timely manner. Maybe the security risk is too large right now, but I don't buy it.

I doubt these pictures have all the merits of the photographic medium (in case you thought I was making a general statement). Anyways, photographing returning coffins informs the public in an appropriate, honest way. The Abu Graib photos, on the other hand, soured the Iraqi people to the American occupation more than any events. So yes, photos there had an effect that a press release would not have- an irrational effect. Filming our coffins is supported by those who want that irrational effect to make up for the detachment and lack of a logical reaction. So perhaps it would be best to wait until some of the furor surrounding the issue has died down. The debate is over whether or not to seek prosecution, which is a very slow process. And either way we want the decision to be made with a non sensational, sober state of mind.

 

[VirusType2]

this is going to sound unlike me but I think in some ways they may be right; releasing them is in national security interests. There's some evidence that suggests the release of the abu Gharib photos galvanised people who would have otherwise remained neutral to action agains the US. the torture photos were the best recruitment tools ever to come out of iraq. If you read some of the FBI interrogation files of US detainees you'll see that many of them signed up to fight in outrage of the torture and abuse of iraqis at american hands. ANyways I think releasing the photos is the right thing to do (justice served) however it might just lead to more problems. but really the US has no one to blame but itself. Hanging Bush in effigy and rounding up his stooges and locking them away till they're even older and greyer would go a long way to mend the perception of the US as a human rights abuser and hypocrite

This is pretty much how I feel also.

But the photos must come out eventually. We aren't 'denying the holocaust' here, but I believe it would be better if they are released well after the war in the middle east is over. (whenever that will be)

I believe a grand speech and something dedicated and promises of nothing like this happening again will be in order at that time.

 

[Jintor]

I don't have too much to add besides the fact that if you're running on a platform of transparency and then you're not transparent, well, it's not too difficult to being to lose faith.

 

[Maturin]

Would a color-by-numbers approximation passed out to reporters suffice? Doesn't transparency have more important battles to win? It needs to be a tendency regarding things that matter. And it has to go hand in hand with an understanding of when too much information distracts from an important debate.

 

[Raziaar]

Obama is starting to tread some dangerous ground here with his latest decisions. He's shifting more and more to the right on many issues, and I am growing concerned over that.

The thing is... he is automatically, guaranteed to get a bad review from conservatives/republicans no matter WHAT he does during his term in office.

But liberals/democrats, he needs to be sure that he supports the people who have his back, who support him. Or else he's going to have some severe popularity issues down the road.

 

[VirusType2]

I am incredibly concerned about the people he appointed, so, while I was very optimistic about him taking them helm at first, it immediately started off a complete disaster for me. Basically, he sold America to Wall Street.

Obviously, I'm already wondering who he might be running against when his term is up.

 

[David.Seth2]

this is going to sound unlike me but I think in some ways they may be right; releasing them is in national security interests. There's some evidence that suggests the release of the abu Gharib photos galvanised people who would have otherwise remained neutral to action agains the US. the torture photos were the best recruitment tools ever to come out of iraq. If you read some of the FBI interrogation files of US detainees you'll see that many of them signed up to fight in outrage of the torture and abuse of iraqis at american hands. ANyways I think releasing the photos is the right thing to do (justice served) however it might just lead to more problems. but really the US has no one to blame but itself. Hanging Bush in effigy and rounding up his stooges and locking them away till they're even older and greyer would go a long way to mend the perception of the US as a human rights abuser and hypocrite

But there is much more to it than those photos. 2 other important events in the Iraq War that helped turn potential allies to road side bombers were this:

Deba'athification and the disarmament of the Iraqi Army.

In June 2003, the Coalition Provisional Authority banned the Ba'ath party. Some criticize the additional step the CPA took — of banning all members of the top four tiers of the Ba'ath Party from the new government, as well as from public schools and colleges — as blocking too many experienced people from participation in the new government. Thousands were removed from their positions, including doctors, professors, school teachers, bureaucrats and more. Many teachers lost their jobs, causing protests and demonstrations at schools and universities. Under the previous rule of the Ba'ath party, one could not reach high positions in the government or in the schools without becoming a party member. In fact, party membership was a prerequisite for university admission. In other words, while many Ba'athists joined for ideological reasons, many more were members because it was a way to better their options. After much pressure by the US, the policy of deba'athification was addressed by the Iraqi government in January, 2008 in the highly controversial "Accountability and Justice Act" which was supposed to ease the policy, but which many feared would actually lead to further dismissals.[8]

On December 17, 2008, the New York Times reported that up to 35 officials in the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior ranking as high as general have been arrested over the past three days accused of quietly working to reconstitute the Ba'ath Party.

http://www.goalsforamericans.org/iraq/de-baathification-the-origins-of-failure/


As a result of dissolving the Iraqi Army, 350,000 Iraqi's lost their main source of income.
Add to that the more than 15,000 teachers, doctors and civil servants who lost their job from debaathification. The result is a huge amount of people that hate us. A huge amount of people that were pushed to the brink. Those photos (abu Ghraib) were the last straw for people who already hated us.

The new photos should be released, but this may not be the best time for it. Only if the current president is willing to investigate should the photos be released now.

 

[delusional]

this is going to sound unlike me but I think in some ways they may be right; releasing them is in national security interests. There's some evidence that suggests the release of the abu Gharib photos galvanised people who would have otherwise remained neutral to action agains the US. the torture photos were the best recruitment tools ever to come out of iraq. If you read some of the FBI interrogation files of US detainees you'll see that many of them signed up to fight in outrage of the torture and abuse of iraqis at american hands. ANyways I think releasing the photos is the right thing to do (justice served) however it might just lead to more problems. but really the US has no one to blame but itself. Hanging Bush in effigy and rounding up his stooges and locking them away till they're even older and greyer would go a long way to mend the perception of the US as a human rights abuser and hypocrite

Thing is, they already know we tortured. So releasing those photos won't have the level affect it had in the past. The best thing to do is just release the photos, and admit we made a mistake.

 

[Laivasse]

Generally I'm getting a feeling of 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.

Renewal is a painful process. If Obama really wants to change the political culture in America - and that was his whole election platform - then he's going to have to do some things that have a risk attached, such as releasing the photos he said he would release. The payoffs are: the fulfilment of his commitment to transparency and accountability, severance from the old order of Bushism, heightened awareness among Americans about the kind of things some of them have been supporting, and greater trust in Obama's administration.

The damage to America's national security was done at the point the abuses were committed. That anti-American elements will try to use the photos as a tool of radicalisation is beyond any doubt, but I'm dubious as to whether they will make a significant difference, considering the amount of damning stuff already in circulation. If Obama wants to balance up the potential extra risk that the photos could pose to his troops, he can bring those troops home and not send them off on any illegal wars in future. Sorted.

Holding onto the photos will not endear him to Conservatives, as some here have already pointed out. Nothing will.

"All statements from Barack Obama come with an expiration date. All of them."

Conservative Jim Geraghty, writing in the National Review, gives President Obama little credit, although he does back the president's decision.

 

[kathaksung]

Those pictures were taken for fun. So mostly it was only a posting not real torture. They won't take picture for real torture because that will be evidence of a crime. The real torture tapes were elimnated already.

All this "picture gate" is only a trick of propaganda. To convince people that US is kind and torture is only so and so. The method is similar to "terror attack". When US plotted a terror attack, he lets his loyal ally - Britain - to practise it first, (like 7/7/05 London bombing, 4/8/09 arrest of terrorists group) so the main terror attack planed in US would have been justified. Same tactic is used in this Swine Flu event. They let it break out in Mexico to justify a later outbreak in US. To cover up the real source of plot and major operating field. So is this "torture picture gate". They wish people finally "found" the crime their president tries to cover up is mild.

So they creat another "picture gate" to fool people.

US interrogators may have killed dozens, human rights researcher and rights group say

By John Byrne

Published: May 6, 2009


United States interrogators killed nearly four dozen detainees during or after their interrogations, according a report published by a human rights researcher based on a Human Rights First report and followup investigations.

In all, 98 detainees have died while in US hands. Thirty-four homicides have been identified, with at least eight detainees - and as many as 12 - having been tortured to death, according to a 2006 Human Rights First report that underwrites the researcher’s posting. The causes of 48 more deaths remain uncertain.

The researcher, John Sifton, worked for five years for Human Rights Watch. In a posting Tuesday, he documents myriad cases of detainees who died at the hands of their US interrogators. Some of the instances he cites are graphic.

Most of those taken captive were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. They include at least one Afghani soldier, Jamal Naseer, who was mistakenly arrested in 2004. “Those arrested with Naseer later said that during interrogations U.S. personnel punched and kicked them, hung them upside down, and hit them with sticks or cables,” Sifton writes. “Some said they were doused with cold water and forced to lie in the snow. Nasser collapsed about two weeks after the arrest, complaining of stomach pain, probably an internal hemorrhage.”

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05...human-rights-researcher-and-rights-group-say/

Likely there were more death. Do you think the rights group know them all? Dare they take pictures on these interrogation?

 

[Maturin]

shut up