Odd vote i came across

iamaelephant said:
I work nearly 10 hours to pay for a game and I'll be damned if I'm doing that for some peice of crap game thats been rushed out the door. If I pirate a game and it turns out to be really good I will usually buy it.
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Get a better job. If you can't afford something save up until you can. 100 New Zealand Dollars is just £35, which is the standard price for a game.

I don't understand this "I don't really like it so I'll get it for free, serve them right for making something crappy". I'm not a fan of Skoda cars but that doesn't mean I can steal them to drive somewhere.
 
Cyanide said:
Pirating the game makes it more of a hassle to play multiplayer (if not impossible), and keep the game up to date. I will admit that I do it, but only because I can't rent PC games and I'm not one to just throw away $50 on a game that turns out to be less than excellent.
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Less than excellent? So you'd priate games that are are "Really good" or "enjoyable"? Shouldn't you pay for something you've used.

Seriously, you're all deluded thieves. You are under the impression that you are given a right to steal something because you don't think it's great.
 
i .. like other people.. download games from private warez servers .. yup im stealing blabla ..you broke my heart .. but i do .. games are wayyyy too expensive in Malta anyway. i only buy a game if its got great multiplayer, or i really think they deserve it for the great job..

NO F-KING CHANCE IN HELL am i gunna risk spending all my money to try a game.. (especially if it doesnt have a demo released beforehand) for it to end up sucking or something.

i aint got money to waste.. plus with studies i havent got chance to get a job..

yup.. i will be dloading hl2 warez.. but i will also be buying it as soon as its available in Malta (which is sometimes as long as 1 month after release!)

-spoot
 
I really don't understand this "This game is crap I'm not paying for it" mentality.

I mean, it may be crap, but you're still playing it. You're still getting something out of something that took someone a long amount of time and effort to make.

It's just a stupid viewpoint. And makes you no different from someone who steals something material. "I can't afford it" isn't an excuse.
 
erm i couldnt care less.

so lemmi c .. take the bus, get to the closest place that sells game "X" .. buy game X .. and go home .. i will manage to do that in 2 hours, the same amount of time it would take me to dload it.

i KNOW its stealing .. no beating around the bush .. but if its there for free, take it.

you're walking down the street and the guy infront of you dropped his wallet and no1 notices by the time you pick it up.. i know i would keep it thats for sure.
 
Ok, first of all, I buy any game I plan to play for more than the hour or 2 it takes me to deside if it's any good. Secondly, it's not stealing if you're not taking anything from anybody. I know it's hard for some of you pea brains to accept, but copying software does not take anything from anyone. See, unlike the real world, in the electronic world things can be reproduced infinately for no cost (asside from the storage spaced used to keep the 1s and 0s). In my case, and the case of many others, the company that made the game stands to lose nothing, because if I am not able to try the game first, I simply will not buy it.

Do you people go and buy a car without test driving it? I don't know what goes on in the heads of people with the "you should pay for it because the company put money into making it" menatlity, but I would wager that it's not very much. I guess some people just have too much money and not enough brains. Maybe I'll go put some money into producing bags of dog crap. Then I'll over hype it with all kinds of advertising. Then I'll release an empty paper bag as a demo, to get you all excited. Then you can pay me money for your bag of dog crap. Would you all go for that?

Those of us who like to try before we buy will continue to do so. Those of you who don't will continue to buy games based on hype. And there is nothing that's going to change that.
 
you're walking down the street and the guy infront of you dropped his wallet and no1 notices by the time you pick it up.. i know i would keep it thats for sure.
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And its people like you that ruin this world.
 
Ok, first of all, I buy any game I plan to play for more than the hour or 2 it takes me to deside if it's any good. Secondly, it's not stealing if you're not taking anything from anybody. I know it's hard for some of you pea brains to accept, but copying software does not take anything from anyone. See, unlike the real world, in the electronic world things can be reproduced infinately for no cost (asside from the storage spaced used to keep the 1s and 0s). In my case, and the case of many others, the company that made the game stands to lose nothing, because if I am not able to try the game first, I simply will not buy it.
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So....your saying it really didnt cost valve 25+ million dollars to make H-L-2...?
 
cyanide doens't know what intellectual property is. i think he needs to read up on it
 
nothing can possibly make me change my point of view on this .. but i am actually finding this thread more interesting than some previous ones for obvious reasons.

anywho

it is in my nature to take the cheapest way out .. that plus the fact that Malta doesnt give a toss about cyber crime plus a fast connection and access to private 0day warez ftps makes it rather temping to dload a game here and there, more tempting then getting dressed and goung out and buying one (its over 30 celcius out there, when the shops are open ie)

as i also mentioned before hand.. it takes malta 30 days to get a game after it is released

so yeah .. im a thief .. and the worst thing is, i feel no guilt
 
Cyanide said:
Ok, first of all, I buy any game I plan to play for more than the hour or 2 it takes me to deside if it's any good. Secondly, it's not stealing if you're not taking anything from anybody. I know it's hard for some of you pea brains to accept, but copying software does not take anything from anyone. See, unlike the real world, in the electronic world things can be reproduced infinately for no cost (asside from the storage spaced used to keep the 1s and 0s). In my case, and the case of many others, the company that made the game stands to lose nothing, because if I am not able to try the game first, I simply will not buy it.

Do you people go and buy a car without test driving it? I don't know what goes on in the heads of people with the "you should pay for it because the company put money into making it" menatlity, but I would wager that it's not very much. I guess some people just have too much money and not enough brains. Maybe I'll go put some money into producing bags of dog crap. Then I'll over hype it with all kinds of advertising. Then I'll release an empty paper bag as a demo, to get you all excited. Then you can pay me money for your bag of dog crap. Would you all go for that?

Those of us who like to try before we buy will continue to do so. Those of you who don't will continue to buy games based on hype. And there is nothing that's going to change that.
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You're argument is stupid. You are arguing that because it costs you nothing to download the game, no body loses any money. The games cost money to develope and most of the money goes to the retailers that sell the game, not the game developers.

Although I may have pea brain (apparently) but even I can see that I'm not taking anything from anything, I'm just not giving money for something. You seem to think that the money magically appears into the game developers accounts. They've got to make their money back.

The way you "try before you buy" is by using demos, or reading reviews. When you go for a test drive, you don't use the car for everything you would. You don't use it to go see your friends, or pick up the kids or whatnot. You use it to see if it's nice to drive. You don't get the car for free. You get an incentive to buy a car.

I can't believed you called me a pea brain and then went on to say that no one loses money from Software Piracy. Clever.
 
Feath said:
I can't believed you called me a pea brain and then went on to say that no one loses money from Software Piracy. Clever.
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i think what he meant by that is .. whether a guy dloads a game off bittorrent or something .. or doesnt buy the game or dload it from the net at all, wont have any effect on the devs pocket
 
noluck said:
i think what he meant by that is .. whether a guy dloads a game off bittorrent or something .. or doesnt buy the game or dload it from the net at all, wont have any effect on the devs pocket
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I'm pretty sure it will. Are you aware that most games don't make a profit?
 
noluck said:
you're walking down the street and the guy infront of you dropped his wallet and no1 notices by the time you pick it up.. i know i would keep it thats for sure.
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Any decent person would hollar to the guy that he dropped his wallet.
 
err.. what does that have to do with what i said ... ok lemmi rephrase ..maybe my english isnt all that good..

Bob downloads halflife1 from www.d;klfjglkdfj.com

Bob doesnt dload halflife1 from www.d;klfjglkdfj.com

will it make any diff to the developers?


since i am typing let me just say this .. i do believe in dlaoding a game to try it out before buying... hell if i didnt have internet.. i would go over to a friend who dlaoded it to see if it is worth the buy before getting it

-spoot

EDIT:

RakuraiTenjin said:
Any decent person would hollar to the guy that he dropped his wallet.
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im not decent then i guess
 
noluck said:
i think what he meant by that is .. whether a guy dloads a game off bittorrent or something .. or doesnt buy the game or dload it from the net at all, wont have any effect on the devs pocket
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you are wrong because it is presumptious to say that. you presume that the person would not go out and buy it if he couldn't download it for free. BUT many people, when they want something, they will get it one way or another. that person might say, well i would never buy it anyway, but hes only saying that because he doesn't have to make the choice(and hes trying to make his argument sound better) but hes living in a world where he can download what he wants.

SO he can't accurately gauge what his actions would be in a world that he couldn't pirate software. so with that in mind, based on human nature, if someone couldn't download the game and wanted it badly, its a likely scenario that he would go buy it, therefore it CAN have an effect on the devs pocket. the developer indirectly LOSES money because of the availability of pirated material.

now the number of this type of person in the world can not be determined, but even if its true for one person, then its true that developers are losing money because of people who download their software for free.
 
.. if i didnt have internet to dload it i would tell a friend to burn the copy he downloaded onto a cd.. and if not , i will go to some outdoor market thing in the capital city of malta where they sell pirated game and apps which are on display.

at the meantime cops eat their doughnuts
 
Just because no one stops you doesn't mean it's right.

Anyway, this is my last post. I give up. You are all convinced you've got valid reasons, and nothing I will say will convince you otherwise.
 
Feath said:
Anyway, this is my last post. I give up. You are all convinced you've got valid reasons, and nothing I will say will convince you otherwise.
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true ..

last post for me 2 .. its getting late ..

did i say it was right? no . i actually admitted to the fact that it is stealing, but if the opportunity to save a bunch of money over a crap game is 2 clicks away, literally, i will take the opportunity... and as i said before, not feel guilty about it
 
noluck said:
.. if i didnt have internet to dload it i would tell a friend to burn the copy he downloaded onto a cd.. and if not , i will go to some outdoor market thing in the capital city of malta where they sell pirated game and apps which are on display.

at the meantime cops eat their doughnuts
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you are missing the point entirely. the point was in that theoretical world you couldn't pirate games. which would force some people to buy games.
 
poseyjmac said:
you are missing the point entirely. the point was in that theoretical world you couldn't pirate games. which would force some people to buy games.
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in that case i would either try the demo, and if the game doesnt have a demo i would tell a friend to lend me his copy.. one way or another i will not be buying a game which i havent tried before.. even if i end up not playing it period.

gn
 
anyway the law of averages proves my rebuttle to be impenetrable to the 'devs never lose out on money' argument.
 
noluck said:
in that case i would either try the demo, and if the game doesnt have a demo i would tell a friend to lend me his copy.. one way or another i will not be buying a game which i havent tried before.. even if i end up not playing it period.

gn
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you missed the point again
 
poseyjmac said:
you missed the point again
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sigh ... long story short.. if i cannot try the game i wont buy it.. i'll get another hobby .. i will NOT buy a game that i cannot try beforehand
 
noluck said:
sigh ... long story short.. if i cannot try the game i wont buy it.. i'll get another hobby .. i will NOT buy a game that i cannot try beforehand
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thats nice. it just has nothing to do with my post. but maybe you weren't replying to me anyway. thats why quote tags are nice
 
Ok, first of all, I buy any game I plan to play for more than the hour or 2 it takes me to deside if it's any good. Secondly, it's not stealing if you're not taking anything from anybody. I know it's hard for some of you pea brains to accept, but copying software does not take anything from anyone. See, unlike the real world, in the electronic world things can be reproduced infinately for no cost (asside from the storage spaced used to keep the 1s and 0s). In my case, and the case of many others, the company that made the game stands to lose nothing, because if I am not able to try the game first, I simply will not buy it.
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So....your saying it really didnt cost valve 25+ million dollars to make H-L-2...?
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Please explain how you extrapilated that from what i said? Seriously, it completely eludes me. BTW, it's more like 40 million.

cyanide doens't know what intellectual property is. i think he needs to read up on it
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I'm well aware of intellectual property. It's a term developed to allow some entity to own an idea or some other intangible "comodity". However, that doesn't change the fact that it has no physical value. All the value it has is artificially enforced by other people. Now since I can think for myself and I'm not a drone, I don't always feel the need to follow the rules made by other people for their own benefit.

You're argument is stupid. You are arguing that because it costs you nothing to download the game, no body loses any money. The games cost money to develope and most of the money goes to the retailers that sell the game, not the game developers.
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Yes, I am indeed arguing that downloading a game doesn't cost anybody money (aside from the cost of the bandwidth used to transfer the bits and the hard drive used to store them), including the developer. Guess why I would do that? Because it's freakin ture! Please connect me downloading a game to the company losing money. I would just love to know how somebody can lose something they never had. Imagine the possibile court cases you could file. I mean, I could apply for a job as CEO of a major corperation, and when they didn't hire me, I could file a suit against them for stealing my new BMW.

Since I'm not sure if that analogy sank in, I'll say it bluntly. See, any product you buy is auditioning for your money (like applying for a job). If it fails to meet your standards then you don't buy it (like not getting that job). But according to you, somehow the company has lost money because their product wasn't good enough to get my money. When in fact, they never had my money to lose in the first place.

BTW, great opening sentence there genius, way to shut down my argument with solid logic.


Although I may have pea brain (apparently) but even I can see that I'm not taking anything from anything, I'm just not giving money for something. You seem to think that the money magically appears into the game developers accounts. They've got to make their money back.
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No, they don't have to make their money back. They have to earn their money back. It is not a companies right to make money. They must earn money buy creating a superior product that meets my (or any other consumer's) standards. If they fail to do that, then they do not deserve to make their money back.

The way you "try before you buy" is by using demos, or reading reviews. When you go for a test drive, you don't use the car for everything you would. You don't use it to go see your friends, or pick up the kids or whatnot. You use it to see if it's nice to drive. You don't get the car for free. You get an incentive to buy a car.
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1. Didn't you catch the paper bag of dog crap analogy? Remember how I said I'd give you an empty paper bag as a demo. Well that's what a lot of publishers do. They take the best part of the game, put that in the demo, and leave out the rest of the game. Which may or may not be worthless crap.

2. Game reviewers have differing opinions. On top of that, they may not be a big fan of a type of game that I like. Haven't you ever disagreed with a game review before? Besides, publishers pay game magazines, so they are biased. I mean, take for example the instance where GameSpot gave Savage a bad review just shortly after Savage's publisher yanked their advertising money. The Savage community outrage was so great that GameSpot retracted the review. A review is not enough evidence for me to spend $50. Call me cheap if you want.

I can't believed you called me a pea brain and then went on to say that no one loses money from Software Piracy. Clever.
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What would be clever is if you can somehow link me downloading a game to a company losing money. Especially given the fact that I don't buy games until i've played them.

I'm pretty sure it will. Are you aware that most games don't make a profit?
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Man, I don't know if I can take any more of your rock solid logic. I mean, "I'm pretty sure it will"...How am I supposed to compete with that?


P.S. Anybody who would keep another person's wallet has problems.
 
This has actually become an interesting topic.

It's a catch-22 situation. By not paying for crap games, the consumer hopes to send a message to the developer that we are not content with crap therefore motivating them to work hard to earn our money. Hopefully creating memorable gaming experiences that live with us till the day we die :) . On the other hand us not buying games means less revenue for the gaming industry, which means less incentive for big-budget games that require a shitload of work, which means more crap games.

Edit:

I'll also add that we're in a dire situation right now. Half-Life 2 is the last great hope to revitalize the ENTIRE PC GAMING industry. If Half-Life 2 is indeed the next revolution like we're all hoping it is and consequently makes BILLIONS of $$$, then it will send a message to other game companies that they have to make stuff like this to become rich, fat and famous. Ala Gabe. If not, we're doomed for 50 more Battlefield and Call of Duty expansion packs for the next 5-10 years.
 
Feath said:
Are you aware that most games don't make a profit?
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Yeah all those developers out there just make video games out of the kindness of their hearts, while their real income comes from working night shifts at McDonalds right? Dumbass.

Just give up all you anti-piracy idiots, nothing you say is going to stop anyone here from pirating software.

Also, just as a matter of interest, how many of you head-strong anti piracy zealots have pirated versions of Windows? Got any MP3s you arent legally entitled to? Ho about movies? DVDs? Copied CDs? You've all registered your All Seeing Eye and other such trial software? How about Abode Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, any 3d art programs?

I'm willing to bet that 99% of you "anti piracy" hippies own at least one peice of pirated software/music/video etc.
 
Cyanide said:
A bunch of stuff I can't be bothered to reply to individually
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You can't just say just because you don't like something gives you the right to take it for free. If you don't like something, don't use it. There are plenty of meals I've eaten that weren't that nice but that doesn't mean I walk out of the restaurant without paying for the meal. You've used something that you were meant to pay for, and you should pay for it. Whether your opinion on it was great.

AND, this is how companies lose money:

Game costs £X to develope.
N number of people download it
0 people pay of it
Lose of £X for company

Game costs £X to develope.
0 people download it
X people pay for it
Profit for company.

Is that hard to understand? Seriously.

Even if you don't like it, you've still used it. The Demo argument is flawed because not all demos are just the best parts of the game. Even if they were all like that. It's up to you to decide, you can base your judgement on reviews and word of mouth. You can't just take without giving something back. It's not your right and it harms a lot of people.

I'm not going to post anymore. I'd just like to say this. You can delude yourself all you want, but there's no difference between you and a guy who steals a car. Or steals anything.
 
Good point elephant. Feath would definately have mp3s on his computer. The anti-piracy attitude suddenly loses all momentum after you find out the hypocrisy of the one preaching it.....
 
iamaelephant said:
Yeah all those developers out there just make video games out of the kindness of their hearts, while their real income comes from working night shifts at McDonalds right? Dumbass.

Just give up all you anti-piracy idiots, nothing you say is going to stop anyone here from pirating software.

Also, just as a matter of interest, how many of you head-strong anti piracy zealots have pirated versions of Windows? Got any MP3s you arent legally entitled to? Ho about movies? DVDs? Copied CDs? You've all registered your All Seeing Eye and other such trial software? How about Abode Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, any 3d art programs?

I'm willing to bet that 99% of you "anti piracy" hippies own at least one peice of pirated software/music/video etc.
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Ha "Hippies". I have a minimum of pirated stuff on my computer. No software at all. (seriously) and about 2% of my MP3s. I'm not saying it's right. But that's a minimum.

As for the games thing. It's true, my source is a year old magazine that I probably won't be able to find. Most games actually don't make a profit. But publishers are kept alive by the games that do.
 
Mr-Fusion said:
Good point elephant. Feath would definately have mp3s on his computer. The anti-piracy attitude suddenly loses all momentum after you find out the hypocrisy of the one preaching it.....
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I'm arguing against the mindset that's it's okay to just pirate bad games. It's wrong.

Illegal Music files: 171.5mb
Total Music files: 2354.4mb

Percentage of Illegal music files 0.073%

I'm not saying that < 1% is right I'm just saying that I've got mostly legal MP3s on my computer. I'm not just arguing against software piracy with 400 albums I've downloaded on my computer.

As for pirated software. I have two slightly dodgy things. A copy of Paint Shop Pro that's on day 153 of its Day 30 trial period. And a copy of Unreal Tournament which I installed one day so we could have a lan game in our Uni halls.
 
I have to agree with Feath in general. Personally, I'm a reformed pirate, I used to download games that I'd never be able to buy (as I have no job, ATM) just because I felt sorry for myself and reasoned "I don't have the money, it doesn't matter!"

Anyhow, since then, I've seen that I've really been in error. Yes, I still DO have some illegal software, but I haven't downloaded a game all year. I plan to keep it that way.

That said, I can also see where the "I want to try a game before I buy a game" mentality comes from. But, I point to Feath's word-of-mouth and demo stance. Really, it's the best way to go.
 
So you have a "minimum" of illegal data on your computer. Well, I've murdered only 0.005% of the hitchhikers I've picked up so I have every right to preach to people about how to be a good person who doesnt murder, right?

Feath, piss off. Seriously.
 
Feath said:
Illegal Music files: 171.5mb
Total Music files: 2354.4mb

Percentage of Illegal music files 0.073%
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im taking it you failed maths right ?

to me warez is the best thing that ever happened to me on the internet.. it must have saved me hundreds upon hundreds of bucks due to crap stuff.. k im dloading/stealing software, but im not gunna buy crap stuff before trying them just because some random guy says it just isnt right. maybe for him .. it isnt right.. but hell .. i sure as hell aint gunna buy something without knowing what it is.

if the company loses profit .. it kind of makes it their fault for spending so much money on development and ending up with a bad product.. so be it.. the gaming industry isnt the only business where one can loose money in the process. 70% of restaurants close down after the first year for example.

People have opinions.. a thing which makes them choose an object over another, which created competition in the industries.. whether this is a good thing.. noone is certain, but people still do it anyway.

Basically what im getting at is this.. where people deserve profit they will have profit, or else every1 will be doing it

/me needs english lessons


PS: people stole my wallet .. just think of it as equivalent trade ;)
 
noluck, let me ask you, what's to stop you from downloading a game to "test it," say, a single player game? You decide you like it, but oh look, if there's no REASON to buy it (ie. you have a fully functional game that wouldn't benefit from owning a legit copy), would you even buy it? My thoughts are no, you'll play your stolen copy because there's no purpose in owning it at that point.
 
Shuzer said:
noluck, let me ask you, what's to stop you from downloading a game to "test it," say, a single player game? You decide you like it, but oh look, if there's no REASON to buy it (ie. you have a fully functional game that wouldn't benefit from owning a legit copy), would you even buy it? My thoughts are no, you'll play your stolen copy because there's no purpose in owning it at that point.
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no shuzer.. by all means.. if they deserve it .. i buy it .. i have my share of original games

oh and for the record.. i will be downloading and buying HL2 .. dloading so i get it straight away.. buy it because they deserve it (and if not due to mods).

meaning i must have a valid reason to buy something
 
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