Of Games and Porn

[Thadius Dean]

I was reading through my Electronic Gaming Monthly when i came up to the overheard section, where the staff finds quotes that they think are expecially important, funny, or whatever. when i come to a quote that really threw me back. something so revolting and disturbing that i found that i just had to tell someone about it.

"Story in a game is like story in porn. It's expected to be there, but it's not important"

now who could say such a thing? a wrestler? a cheap third rate movie producer? oh no. none other than id Software Programmer John Carmack.

now i was expecting this from somone who didnt really know games, for story is one of the most important things in a videogame. it drives the player to keep going, to see what is going to happen next in this ever twisting plot. but coming from the mouth of one of the most famous game makers in history. to me this tells a lot about how DOOM 3 is going to turn out. :|

 

[Pressure]

Well that brought my hopes for a good story in Doom 3 down another knotch.

 

[Kadayi]

Heh the principle reason why I'm not bothering with D³.

ID = great engines, lousy games.

 

[LittleB]

John Carmack? You think it's surprising that he said that?! hahahahahahah

 

[Shuzer]

lol, well then.. I don't think alot of people were hoping for Doom 3 to have an engrossing story, though. Either way, it's sad to hear such a statement from one of the gaming industry's best

 

[The Dark Elf]

I think their all allowed one big dumb comment, John with his pornstory and Bill with his 640k

 

[Majestic XII]

Well, they god a professional doing the story for Doom3... so im not sure if it will be crap.

 

[Thadius Dean]

well, Doom 3 is based off of Doom, which im pretty sure those two wrote. and its not as much as Doom as one of the game industries most respected having such thoughts.

 

[Gorgon]

Well I don't care as long as the game got the best Graphics and technologies which will be used for the next 4-10 years.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Not everyone cares for story in a game. One of my friends simply bases it off of the gameplay.

 

[Norlan]

THat wouldn't prove much if Doom 3 will have an underdevelolped story. The fact is Willits is in charge of the designing parts while Carmack only does programming. Hard to imagine that there're so many ignorants here...right, this is a halflife2 forum, of course

 

[Cutey_Kaite]

This is sick, just sick

...i have stepped on shit

in other news, its raining on mars!

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I think stories are very important in porn films. The characters and setting is nothing without a story to drive it. A story which develops the characters, adds a bit of class and dignity to these woman who would otherwise have none. It's so much more satisfying seeing a woman get jiggy with it after she's been fully clothed for at least 30 minutes and talking..... This is all part of the story. Porn films that get to the action straight away are not thought out very well. A story adds to the suspense and immersiveness of the porn.

It's the same with computer games. If you get to the action straight away your just doing what's been done a million times before. No oringinality, no real creativity. I think it's awesome to spend a while setting up the characters and prologue to the story as Half-Life did. I'm probably in the minority though, and most people would start thinking "OMG THIS IS CRAP I WANNA KILL STUFF". Which is kind of sad really.

 

[Sprafa]

huh...Mr.Fusion talked about story in porn...never heard of such a thing....

 

[CheapAssStrat]

How do you know that quote wasn't from 1993, when he was making Doom I?

 

[dawdler]

Pff... porn drives games too. Look at Morrowind. If there werent nude textures/models and diverse sex mods I wouldnt play it!

 

[Thadius Dean]

oh to cheapassstrat the full thing is "-id Software Programmer John Carmack currently hard at work crafting the intricate plot of Doom 3"

 

[smwScott]

Story in porn is totally outrageos. I mean whoever thought of such a thing, no one cares. Story = fastforward.

Now in games, it's very important. But seriously, the Doom series has a plot about as deep as a drained pool. The guy can make good engines but he couldn't make a coherent plot if his life depended on it. Seriously, this is a game where hell demons invade mars .... if you were expecting a good story then that's pretty sad.

 

[Norlan]

Story in porn is totally outrageos. I mean whoever thought of such a thing, no one cares. Story = fastforward.

Now in games, it's very important. But seriously, the Doom series has a plot about as deep as a drained pool. The guy can make good engines but he couldn't make a coherent plot if his life depended on it. Seriously, this is a game where hell demons invade mars .... if you were expecting a good story then that's pretty sad.

And you think what you're saying is true? read my post

 

[synth]

Doom has never been a story-driven game, don't criticise Carmack for his comment.

 

[qckbeam]

Doom has never been a story-driven game, don't criticise Carmack for his comment.

Doom hasn't ever been story driven, but his comment is on games in general, which is pretty short-sighted of him.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

well considering its form ID, look how story driven quake 3 was... theres was practically no story what so ever. Oh ya "some alien races gets the best warriors to fight eachother" well thought out *claps*

 

[Lucifer Crass]

John Carmack? You think it's surprising that he said that?! hahahahahahah

Lol, yeah seriously man its no surprise on my end either.

 

[MultiVaC]

Doom 3's story is past saving. They could've had the greatest writers of all time do it and it would still be horrible. The whole idea just sucks too badly. The whole Doom story is inconsistant and doesn't fit together. "Ok guys, our game is going to be about demons." "Aww, no fair, I wanted Mars!" "Yeah, Mars is cool!" "Ok fine, it will be set on Mars." "Yay!" "I want rocket launchers!" "The hero can have a rocket launcher" "More! Rocket launchers is 1337!" "Alright, the demons will have rocket launchers. Anything else?" "ROBO-HITLER!" "Yeah, we love ROBO-HITLER!!!" "No, we already used Robo-Hitler." "Robo-Demons?" "Ok, Robo-Demons." "W00t!"

 

[fizzlephox]

Super Mario's plot was a tour de force.

 

[Letters]

I agree with Carmack?!

...

Don't hurt me.

 

[qckbeam]

I agree with Carmack?!

...

Don't hurt me.

you must die.....

*qckbeam murders Letters

sorted

 

[Norlan]

As if you were hired to write Doom 3's story? Some nice wild assumptions you've made there.

 

[CyberSh33p]

you guys do realize that doom and halflife stories are practically brothers? read the doom I manual and the story. something with interdimensional portals goes horribly wrong and monsters invade. the only difference is setting, immersion, and development of this storyline. doom just threw you into some action while halflife got you immersed in the game and developed the story, giving you more info a little at a time and whatnot. base story is almost the same though.

 

[famas_man]

Considering the technology at the time, and that it was a fps, halflife had a pretty good story. Now with better technology and more focus on story elements, hl2 will have a great story IMO.

Doom 3 on the other hand, has never interested me because it's story seems lame and I don't like the setting/genereal atmosphere. Of course theres more reasons than my dislike of the story why I'm not interested in Doom 3.
Technology alone doesn't mean anything. Technology is a means, through which a game is created.

 

[famas_man]

you guys do realize that doom and halflife stories are practically brothers? read the doom I manual and the story. something with interdimensional portals goes horribly wrong and monsters invade. the only difference is setting, immersion, and development of this storyline. doom just threw you into some action while halflife got you immersed in the game and developed the story, giving you more info a little at a time and whatnot. base story is almost the same though.

Just because there are parallels between the situations in both doesn't make them "brothers". Theres a large quality difference between the two IMO (not saying that halflifes story was exceptional). And as you said: "doom just threw you into some action while halflife got you immersed in the game and developed the story", they took different paths in terms of focus. But I agree that the base story is pretty much the same... and if thats all you're saying then I'm just arguing with myself again

 

[Norlan]

Just because there are parallels between the situations in both doesn't make them "brothers". Theres a large quality difference between the two IMO (not saying that halflifes story was exceptional). And as you said: "doom just threw you into some action while halflife got you immersed in the game and developed the story", they took different paths in terms of focus. But I agree that the base story is pretty much the same... and if thats all you're saying then I'm just arguing with myself again

If it weren't for all the scripting technology, Half Life's story wasn't any more extraordinary than other games that are with a better storyline out there.

 

[Thadius Dean]

well, you have to admit that getting a professional novel writer to write the story for halflife is pretty cool

makes me want to read some of his books, heard dad's nuke and 37th something or other are pretty good.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Norlan..... Its the same with anything. Most sci fi films are similar. But some are far beter done that others. Its the way the story is told. Not the story itself. Thats a sign of a good book/film/game/etc.

 

[famas_man]

Norlan..... Its the same with anything. Most sci fi films are similar. But some are far beter done that others. Its the way the story is told. Not the story itself. Thats a sign of a good book/film/game/etc.

Agreed
...Then again there are some stories, even in games, that are more unique. I think Halo is a good example.

 

[Sorze]

If it weren't for all the scripting technology, Half Life's story wasn't any more extraordinary than other games that are with a better storyline out there.

Norlan, I can see what you're getting at, but that bit is not a good argument....
The thing is, the scripting technology IS in Half-life, therefore you can't just compare Half-life to anything, disregarding the scripting bit.

That's like saying, "without all the good things about Half-life, Half-life sucks."

It's not really a good thing to say, since the good things are there, you just choose to not acknowledge them..


OT:

Maybe the story in the doom games doesn't matter alot, but stories in games is a huge deal, at least to alot of people.
I've played through Final Fantasy VII more times than I can remember, only to experience my favorite parts of the story again (and also teh music, but that's for another thread).
Even though the graphics suck now, I still find it immersive as hell.

I can think of lots of games with great stories, where the games would suck with less developed story, but I think you people know what I'm talking about. (and I'm too tired to type anything now...)

 

[CheapAssStrat]

I think some people are taking this quote a little too seriously... I think what he was trying to say is that gameplay is what really matters in video games. And even if he wasn't, it's not like any of you have never said something stupid before... Give the man a ****ing break.

 

[Nostradamus]

you don't know in what context it is in....remember reading the interveiw, where he stqtes that sometimes mood is more important that a story, but a story has to tie it all together, but it doesnt have to be the most important part of the game...

 

[Norlan]

Norlan..... Its the same with anything. Most sci fi films are similar. But some are far beter done that others. Its the way the story is told. Not the story itself. Thats a sign of a good book/film/game/etc.

In terms of you pointed out, on some level I'd have to agree with you and I certainly consider Valve deserve credits for making Half Life with good technology at the right time. However, my critique against what most people on this board are thinking is some people are just too much of an ignorant to place their opinions on what Doom 3 will turn out to be by judging the original Doom which has been over 10 years, especially with the storyline that we haven't been informed much of it. In addition, too many people are holding on to one of the certain quotes from Carmack in which he said the story in the game may not value as much as the gameplay. Well, let me remind you that Carmack has also said that he's just simply a technician. He'd let other professional artists and designers to take care of the main part that's made up of a game, not the engine. Therefore, I'm pretty quite confident that Doom 3 will be in safe hands of Willits. And last but not least, Willits has SPECIFICALLY revealed that they will implement with a proper story to fit into the game as we play along. Ex. the Soulcube has its own background information