Off Topic Posts Can't Go Off Topic?!?!?!?

[oldi1knoby]

An admin(Zerimski) posted this in the Sweedish thread.

I can't believe people are proud of the fact that they live in a country that would go to war for no apparent reason. And to say "war is hell, there will be civilian casualties" brings up the question "why go to war in the first place if it is hell".

On a more official note, I will close this thread if it does not take a very sudden turn for the better.

Since he likes to keep OFF TOPIC posts on topic. I will start a new thread to reply to that blatant Anti-American remark.

First of all, I am guessing you are not from America? Where do you live so I can keep it in context?

Second, I am guessing you are remarking on the war in Iraq when you refer to us "going to war for no apparent reason". We went to war with Iraw for MANY reasons. If you are an educated person, you know many of these, if not all of them. Well, lets guess you aren't educated and I'll tell you the few Major reasons. The Biggest reason is because Saddam and his regime were evil malicious dictators who were openly enemies of the United States. He held celebrations in the Streets on 9/11. Another reason is because his regime was a threat to any and all of his neighbors in the world. They weren't peacefull people.

Now, the Bush administration did put all their eggs in one basket trying to push the dime on the WMD topic, but that was just a way to get support from the UN. No one is perfect, but I hated Bush for using this tactic to try and get the UN on our side. They needed to be taken out of power, and the people of Iraq will be better off for it in the long run.


You say," Why go to war in the first place?"
I'm not sure who said it but a famous quote comes to mind, " The only thing needed for Evil to succeed, is for good men do to do nothing."

Did you not see the news footage of Iraqi people slapping the statues of Saddam with their shoes? That is a big sign of discrace in their country. The Iraqi people did NOT want to be oppressed by a dictator. They wanted to be free, just like EVERY person does. I am guessing you are free, live in a nice place, and don't have to worry about Udeh or Kuseh(SP?!!?) torturing you to death. They had an IRON MAIDEN! Do you know what that is? These were some of the most evil people around, and they were Dictating an entire country of people who only want to live in peace.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Erm, the reason Zerim (an admin who does a very good job IMO) posted that.... is because the thread was taking a turn towards flaming.... I would have closed it long ago (but I was away). It's fair enough to go off topic in a thread, but not when it degenerates into: "No, your wrong" and other similarily inspired remarks.

Personally I was for the War, and also personally I think that the UN is a utopia-style idea.... everyone has their agenda, and therefore due to basic human nature.... it fails.... time and time again.

 

[oldi1knoby]

Don't take my post wrong. I saw the flaming, but that is what OFF TOPIC is for.

I agree about the UN. The biggest problem with it is those people are ALL politicians. Politicians can be bought for special interest groups. I hate that kind of system. I think a UN kind of system will never work. It failed miserably in this action, and showed how little power they have. We weren't asking them if we could go to war, we were pretty much informing them that we were, and asking them if they would like to help rid the world of another evil.

I never said Zerim was a bad admin, just that I disagree with his political views. The thread did seem very volatile, but he kinda threw his own opinion in seconds before telling everyone else that they couldn't put their own in.

 

[oldi1knoby]

By the way. I love that I can post a reply at the bottom of the page in this little box. It makes fast paced discussions with people so muich easier. Great feature guys.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Originally posted by oldi1knoby
Don't take my post wrong. I saw the flaming, but that is what OFF TOPIC is for.

no, its not, sorry.... read the rules..

Originally posted by oldi1knoby
I never said Zerim was a bad admin, just that I disagree with his political views. The thread did seem very volatile, but he kinda threw his own opinion in seconds before telling everyone else that they couldn't put their own in.
[/B]

I guess so.... but still, I reckon flaming isn't a valid part of OT...

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I'm not sure about this, but i think that Zerimski wasn't exactly saying. "We shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq". I think he was more picking up on the fact that a person was being quite in humane (wrong word but nevermind) about the whole war thing. The comment about 1 person dieing or 100,000 people dieing.

Many people are saying that the UN failed. In some ways i can understand why that is being said. But, the UN after all is a peace keeping organisation, and it does that job very well throughout the world, however Iraq was an exception, partly because of the massive publicity and pertly because it was a different war than any that has happened before. They tried to compare it to wars like Vietnam and Korea, but it just wasn't the same. The people were different, the situation was different and the weapons were different (thats a blunt explanation but i think it gets my point across)
I was fully behind the war in Iraq. I don't care about WMD's to be honest. I didn't think they would find any anyway, Saddam's men weren't completely stupid. By not using them and instead hiding/destroying them, it makes America look bad bad in front of the whole world.

That thing about Zerimski posting his opinion. Well, we cant forget that just like me and you (hopefully) he is a human being. As a human being its difficult to be completely objective and no voice your opinion, especially when you have the power to do so over others.

 

[ComradeBadger]

When I say the UN has failed..... I don't mean now... it's a second League of Nations.... the amount of times the UN has stood back in situations where they should have gone in angers me greatly.... oh yeah..... and it was corrupted right from the start: the very land it's built on was donated by Rockafeller.....

 

[oldi1knoby]

Well, ok FLAMING is not allowed here, but topics that have no point is what this board is for. It's a place to blow off steam, Make a joke, or generally talk about something besides HL2......

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Yes. You see, you are both infact saying the same thing. But neither of you seems to have noticed. You are saying, this is a place to have a little fun. Talk about interesting stuff. Thats all good, thats what we want. What we don't want, is offensive/mindless/spam* posts. You obviously understand that, which is good. I think there was a misunderstanding between the two of you, that is all.

*Spam means something like a person making a thread which has no point. That means that, if it isnt funny or interesting to anyone, then there is no need for it. Its just a waste of space.

 

[Zeus]

Of course he's not from America, it's always the Europeans that hate America. If he actually knew anything about America he wouldn't have flamed it. He's just a European moron, who can't bear to know that America r0xx0rs his country. Simple.

P.S. I bet you he's french!

 

[ComradeBadger]

Erm, Zerimski is english, and lives near me....

theres nowt wrong with the US IMO, but don't start to go "My country is better than yours" etc.... becuase I'll close or delete the thread.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Originally posted by Zeus
Of course he's not from America, it's always the Europeans that hate America. If he actually knew anything about America he wouldn't have flamed it. He's just a European moron, who can't bear to know that America r0xx0rs his country. Simple.

P.S. I bet you he's french!

You know. You really aren't helping the image of your country among Europeans by posting comments like that. Perhaps over there arrogance is a virtue, but over here people don't like it.( and no, I'm not saying that only Americans are arrogant, but if you were the average American, it would seem that way)

Remember, this is a site set up by a British person, many Europeans will visit this site. So don't be surprised at everyones different perspective on the world.

 

[Guest]

Who is he to say all of that? just because he's an admin for a forum doesnt mean he has the right to say all of that. goto war for no reason? what are we supposed to do , just let them crash into places all the time. Gimme a break.

 

[Zeus]

Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
You know. You really aren't helping the image of your country among Europeans by posting comments like that. Perhaps over there arrogance is a virtue, but over here people don't like it.( and no, I'm not saying that only Americans are arrogant, but if you were the average American, it would seem that way)

Remember, this is a site set up by a British person, many Europeans will visit this site. So don't be surprised at everyones different perspective on the world.

I don't care what the Europeans think about America. I only care about what Americans think about America.

 

[theotherguy]

Hmm..this thread i do not like, it is a thread that opened up a previously closed tread, am I correct? these sort of things lead to big flame wars with no hope of any one winning, heh, this kind of thing hapens all the time however, as I once had a simple argument on a forum relating american football to european football/soccer, It instantly turned into a europe vs. america thread with a bunch of flaming and otbursts of nationalism, and it was quite distressing because there was no moderator to close it, so it ended up being almost 30 pages of pure trash.

on another note, I am an american, but I certainly dont see anything against the war on iraq as being "anti-american", but rather see it as being pro-american, the thing that alot of people in the world didnt ssee was that quite a bit of the people in the U.S were strongly against a pre-emptive war on iraq, and were protesting it strongly. Not all americans have the same veiws as the president, and not all of them dont. I feel it is pro-american to critisize the war, because it is showing that you do have the right to protest it, and in an essence, you are supporting the views of many of the people, it is also pro-american to support the war for the very same reason.

the UN did not need to take action in the war, simply because they did not agree with it. In what they saw, iraq was not threatening the peace of the world, and had not attacked anybody, and was not responsible for anything major for some time, therefore, they were classified as a peaceful nation. If they had taken action at all, it wjust might have been against the US forces, for of course, the US was invading Iraq, and threatening the peace of the world itself, for it was indeed, a conquring agressor. and this of course would not be good, if the UN attacked the US forces, as it would lead to a horrible world war, which is probably why they did not take action.

In fact, this was the first american war that had taken place against another country that were not for reasons of tthe other country attacking the U.S first, or the U.S going in to save a smaller country from the agressing countries invasion since the Revolutionary War. (on a side note, the war against mexico is disputed, as both american and mexican forces were on the disputed land north of the rio grande)

In conclusion, the UN did not have to step in, nor is it anti-american to not support a war, andnot all americans agree with mr.bush, despite all of the steryotypes

Also, with europeans and the rest of the world not liking america has many credible reasons. First off, americans are extremley inward-facing, very few americans realize what the opinions of other people in the world are, nor do they care what is happening all around the world, just as long as it doesnt concern the US, if it has anything to do with the US, however, the press is all over it, and americans discuss it, but it is quickly lost to some sort of event that has happened within the US. Another reason is, many americans take advantage of foreigners in buisness situations, for example, how many items have you come across that are manufactured by an american company but say "made in china" on them? probably very many, because US companies like cheap labor, and they go all around the eastern countries to get it, usually, the chinese workers are cheated out of a great deal of money, and the american companies couldnt care less. Every day, giant american corporations go all over the place to take advantage of opportunities around the world, often by cheating another country out of a fair sum of money (most of these deals relate to oil or other natural resources) this often gives other countries a bad impression of americans, and they get the impression that all americans are like the buisnessmen that go around and swindle people out of money. Generally, when an american goes to another country, many of them treat service people in the tourist industry like trash, and they flaunt their patriotic symbols on their t-shirts and such all over the place, this often gives the impression to other countries that americans are arrogant and rude, which in many cases is very true (see a reply some ways above this one) many people in the US feel that other countries are "jealous of our succsess" but this is simply not true, most industrialized countries in europe are equalling if not surpassing the technilogical and financial acheivents of the US companies, and have no real reason to be "jealous" of the US.

Sorry for the incredibally long post, I was just trying to give a civilized impression on the matter, and express my opinion, but for all I know, Im just proving fuel for a flame war...

 

[oldi1knoby]

I agree that being able to question your leaders is one of the great freedoms of America. Well, he's not an American, so he doesn't get to question our leaders. If he is French he can question Jaque, If he is English he can question Tony. I don't bash his leaders, yet every European bashes ours.

My biggest problem with his post was NOT his views, as I said he is entitled to his and I can dissagree. My biggest problem was that he threw his hat into the flame war that was erupting and told everyone ELSE that they couldn't.

 

[Zeus]

Yeah, he's an admin on a power trip. A hypocrite. Thinks he's special and that everyone else is not. Thats one of the perks of being an admin I guess.

Think bf1942. The server admin tells you not to tk or spawn camp or you'll be kicked. Yet what does he do? Tk's and spawn camps the whole game.

And theotherguy, you make America sound evil there. And yes, all you're doing is adding fuel to the flame.

 

[StarMonkey]

I never thought about the universe, it made me feel small
Never thought about the problems of this planet at all
Global warming, radio-active sites
Imperialistic wrongs and animal rights! No!

Why think of all the bad things when life is so good?
Why help with an 'am' when there's always a 'could'?
Let the whales worry about the poisons in the sea
Outside of California, it's foreign policy

I don't want changes, I have no reactions
Your dilemmas are my distractions

That's no way to go, Franco Un-American
No way to go, Franco Un-American
No way to go, Franco Un-American
No way to go, Franco, Franco Un-American

I never looked around, never second-guessed
Then I read some Howard Zinn now I'm always depressed
And now I can't sleep from years of apathy
All because I read a little Noam Chomsky

I'm eating vegetation, 'cause of Fast Food Nation
I'm wearing uncomfortable shoes 'cause of globalization
I'm watching Michael Moore expose the awful truth
I'm listening to Public Enemy and Reagan Youth

I see no world peace 'cause of zealous armed forces
I eat no breath-mints 'cause their from de-hoofed horses
Now I can't believe; what an absolute failure
The president's laughing 'cause we voted for Nader

That's no way to go, Franco Un-American
No way to go, Franco Un-American
No way to go, Franco Un-American
Where can we go, Franco Un-American

I want to move north and be a Canadian
Or hang down low with the nice Australians
I don't want to be another 'I-don't-care-ican'
What are we gonna do Franco, Franco Un-American


closed