ok...question for all.

[Pogrom]

Ah, the wonders of the variable truth. God knows what actually happened and what else is slanderous rumour or pure hearsay these days.

I completely agree.

For every Iraqi coming forward with a genuine claim of torture or other abuse, there'd be at least another with an entirely fabricated allegation designed purely to "jump on the bandwagon" and further undermine coalition forces.

And for every Iraqi coming forward saying "They tortured me!" "They strafed civilians with machine gun fire!" there is a US military official saying: "Well, we believe we only hit combatants, but we're looking into it."

People, these days, don't know what to believe. Politicians are voted in to act as charismatic liars and misdirect us from actual happenings... if we don't know about it, we don't care, and so we carry on regardless.

I agree again. Politicians believe -> Voter Ignorance = Politician Bliss

America always makes me think of Microsoft. It's huge, rich and powerful, many hate and despise it for these reasons, and yet continue to engage in trade with them.

I think what people "hate" in America is not so much the country but a stereotypical attitude of superiority. Whenever you hear about American actions, you will instantly be reminded of what they're not doing, what they "should" be doing, and that they have a military budget large enough to buy a country.

Nice microsoft analogy :thumbs:

With the attitude thing - that seems to be reinforced at almost every level in the American social system. One of the things that struck me the most was when the DoD FINALLY started condemning the torture/abuse at Abu Grahib.

His words: "That (the abuse) was un-American" (paraphrased slightly)

Surely a more accurate description would be: "That was inhumane."

 

[BlackWolfdrk]

i agreed with the war and always will

 

[ApocalypseNow]

What is up with the numerous threads attacking America, and all it's actions?

everyone here is so quick to anger over things the US does, such as the prison "scandel" that involved a few US soldiers, or the attack on the "wedding", etc.

granted, it was wrong in the case of the prison, undetermined in the wedding, but still.

WHERE is the anger over the beheading of an american civilian? Wheres the anger over coalitian troops being striped, killed, skinned, and dragged through the streets to cheering crowds?

Where is the anger over Iraqi terrorist killing hundereds of other Iraqi women and children to kill a few US soldiers and Iraqi policemen?

Are you people just so dead set on hating the US that your willing to ignore those things so you can justify your hatred of us?

wtf are you talking about?!

 

[CptStern]

i agreed with the war and always will

and your reasons are? wmd? humanitarian? patriotism? blind faith?

 

[A2597]

and to the jerk who said I hate arabs.

you don't know me, so just shut up.
I don't hate arabs, I hate the arabs that touture their own people, rape their own women, kill our troops, and do it all in the name of Allah.
I have arabic friends, some of the nicest people I know, but many MANY of the arabs over there want nothing more then to kill us.

 

[CptStern]

"and to the jerk who said I hate americans.

you don't know me, so just shut up.
I don't hate americans, I hate the americans that touture their own people, rape their own women, kill our troops, and do it all in the name of Allah.
I have american friends, some of the nicest people I know, but many MANY of the americans over there want nothing more then to kill us."

 

[bigun]

and to the jerk who said I hate arabs.

you don't know me, so just shut up.
I don't hate arabs, I hate the arabs that touture their own people, rape their own women, kill our troops, and do it all in the name of Allah.
I have arabic friends, some of the nicest people I know, but many MANY of the arabs over there want nothing more then to kill us.

If you hate the Arabs who kill American Troops then by that logic you can sympathise with the Iraqis who hate American Troops and become part of an insurgency.

 

[Gorgon]

when michael moore lies countries dont get invaded

I like that.

The best post of all in my opinion.

 

[A2597]

If you hate the Arabs who kill American Troops then by that logic you can sympathise with the Iraqis who hate American Troops and become part of an insurgency.

I don't know to what version of logic you follow, but man if that isn't one of the most ass backwards things I've ever heard...

 

[Sui]

"and to the jerk who said I hate americans.

you don't know me, so just shut up.
I don't hate americans, I hate the americans that touture their own people, rape their own women, kill our troops, and do it all in the name of Allah.
I have american friends, some of the nicest people I know, but many MANY of the americans over there want nothing more then to kill us."

seriosly, thats very sad jst copying his thread like that. You even left in the allah bit. can we just all accept that some people are jerks and some people are good? lots of needless tension and anger is being thrown around this thread. Im sure if we all just agree that many people are very different, whther arab or american, then this thread can be a lot calmer.

and cpt. stern, u need to lighten up a little. its OK to oppose people with differnet veiws if you have a valid point, but stating the obvios doesnt proof anything.

and your reasons are? wmd? humanitarian? patriotism? blind faith?

^^^this is un-needed. he didnt state why he likes war, so its much politer just to ask him "why do you like war?" other than rudely throwing this in his face.

and stop posting 3 posts next to each other in the space of 30 seconds!!!

 

[bigun]

I don't know to what version of logic you follow, but man if that isn't one of the most ass backwards things I've ever heard...

Its called basic logic, most people with 3 brain cells can fathom it.

 

[Sui]

Its called basic logic, most people with 3 brain cells can fathom it.

i agree, thats a very simple concept to understand... lol. try reading it again, slower

 

[Vigilante]

Stern -- Saudi arabia is home to more terrorists than any other place in the middle east. We dont go there becuase we get oil from them and we are friendly with the royal family!

 

[A2597]

ok, let me explain...

I hate the arabs killing our troops, they are killing our troops because they hate everything we stand for.

our troops are there to protect the iraqi's that these arab radicals are killing, and to ensure a democratic governmant can be brought fourth.

the arab extreamest are there purly for the reason of hating and killing our troops.

so, I hate them for killing our troops, they hate us for existing.

tell me again how this makes me sympathetic to their cause? Because frankly, it's an entirely different kind of hate.

Oh, BTW bigun, I've yet to see a single intelligent post from you on these forums, most are personal attacks or flamebait. _ignored_

 

[Lil' Timmy]

cptstern and bigun are relatively new members to these forums. however a2597 and suicide42.. you guys have no excuse for starting/contributing to this flamebait thread. you're bringing nothing new, and nothing particularly intelligent either.

and just because it pains me to see people flounder in ignorance, let me lay out the "logic" for you a2597:

Q: do you hate arabs who kill american troops?
A: yes (presumably)
Q: do americans kill arab troops?
A: yes
Q: so an arab can, using your reasoning, hate americans who kill arab troops? and, in this sense, you share a mind set with those arabs, and therefor, you can empathize with them, right?
A:...

it's very basic, very simplistic and pretty much pointless, like the rest of this thread.

 

[CptStern]

Stern -- Saudi arabia is home to more terrorists than any other place in the middle east. We dont go there becuase we get oil from them and we are friendly with the royal family!

yes ....that's where mr bin laden comes from too. Ask georgy bush why he has business with the bin ladens. At one point in time Iraq and saddam were allies of the US.

this is un-needed. he didnt state why he likes war, so its much politer just to ask him "why do you like war?" other than rudely throwing this in his face.

asking "why do you like war" was not my intent...that's a silly question. You read what you wanted to. I dont think I was being rude I just asked a legitamate question using the justifications the coalition used...well maybe the blind faith part but with all the lies bush and cronies spread you'd have to have blind faith to believe them all. So the question still stands "Why do you support the war in iraq"


oh and thanks Gorgon

 

[CptStern]

sigh....

"I hate the arabs killing our troops, they are killing our troops because they hate everything we stand for."

stop generalizing...it's like saying all christians are catholics...and they dont hate what you stand for, they hate that you're trying to control their lives. Iraq is in turmoil because every single fringe group (domestic or otherwise) in the area is vying for control of the country, and they see america as standing in their path.

 

[Sui]

asking "why do you like war" was not my intent...that's a silly question. You read what you wanted to. I dont think I was being rude I just asked a legitamate question using the justifications the coalition used...well maybe the blind faith part but with all the lies bush and cronies spread you'd have to have blind faith to believe them all. So the question still stands "Why do you support the war in iraq"

ok, i just thought that that answer was a little snappy.

and IMO, i may have supported the war if there was any truth behind it... but there are no weapons of mass destruction and there is no way the american and british troops could possibly stay in their country without meeting resistance... so i say when they killed the leaders, the troops should have been whithdrawn. I mean, how long does it take to set up a goverment? theyre certainly taking thier time.

 

[A2597]

thank you lil' timmy, but I understood what he was talking about, and frankly it's a load of BS.

 

[nicrd]

I don't hate arabs, I hate the arabs that touture their own people, rape their own women, kill our troops, and do it all in the name of Allah.

What about americans who do it in the name of Democracy? Or as Buch would say: Good vs Evil?

All wars in history of men were like this. Torture is nothing new, Americans do it, Iraqis do it, even the people of Troy did it. The only difference today its that we see it on TV (or on the internet). Thats why a lot of people didn't want to go to war. France has been in war in Algeria for a long time, and they tortured and got tortured, so they did not want to repeat the same thing in Iraq. But Bush is very ignorant about real history and thought this war would be like in a hollywood movie. That's why alot of people hate him: he's ignorant (he never went out of his country before becoming president).