On religion.

[Raziaar]

Okay, well I'm up at 4:20(****ING TIME ALWAYS SHOWS UP FOR ME!) in the morning typing this after getting home, so please ignore any spelling errors or whatever, as I am very sleepy.

I was thinking lately a bit on religion, and my relationship with it. Over the past few months I have grown more and more bitter against my religion. I have grown impatient and annoyed with the extremist Christians that make a bad name for themselves and their own religion, ending up alienating people from it in the process. It's not even so much that, it's moderate Christians as well. I roll my eyes mentally when I hear them talking about good virtues and things that people shouldn't do... things that I myself don't really have a problem with, such as homosexuality or abortion, etc.

I guess I'm sort of growing more distant from my religion, straying away to my own path of self religion where it's just me and my beliefs, which in a way is where it's always been. I'm even finding myself less and less religious, at least from a Christian standpoint. However, I am not really bothered anymore when Christians tell me that I'm being un-christian like because I'm not following the bible, yadda yadda, or non-christians who are trying to goad me by saying the same thing, that I'm going to hell because I'm not following "what it means to be a christian". I'm sort of... well I don't know exactly how to put it, but 'nonchalant' works nicely for the moment.

People could even go so far as to say I'm starting to exhibit a lot of athiest traits and beliefs. However, I don't really find myself wishing to jump and cling to that label. Why? I don't know... but I do know that it'll do nothing for me. It's not like it'll change anything if I suddenly start calling myself athiest, or leaning towards athiest tendencies.

I do still have religious beliefs. I believe in a god, but a lot of that stems from my chidhood as it was engrained into me... not by my parents or society, but as myself. I nurtured that little seed of religion that my mother planted in me when I was very young, and it sort of grew and grew from there. I don't think it will ever change. I'm going to consider myself religious probably, at least in some extents, even though I might think it's silly or if other people ridicule me about it. Why? I guess the biggest reason is that there's some sort of comfort derived from that. It's the way I've always been since as long as I can remember... being religious, considering myself a christian. A 'badge' from my childhood, even if it has been tarnished and uncared for for so long.

So before I just ramble endlessly on which it feels like I'm doing, I just want to ask. Is it bad that I walk down this middle road, between religion and lack of religion? Is it some sort of big deal if somebody doesn't want to label himself an athiest or agnostic if he tends to be leaning that way a lot? Is it foolish to still have some religious beliefs even if those beliefs no longer impact or affect your life in pretty much any way, shape, or form, and you keep them as a comfort from childhood or young adulthood?

I don't really have a desire to discard my religious beliefs, because I don't think it'll have any effect on my life. I am not so eager to apply labels to myself anymore, as other people tend to do, uniting themselves under the banner of Athiesm, or as a Christian because of the annoyance I have been having lately at the things religious people are doing.


Hmm... okay this is the end. Lastly I want to ask, what the **** did I just talk about? Because it seems like a huge, sleepy ramble and not making much sense. I'll probably wake up and regret even writing it in the morning.

 

[soulslicer]

for me religion is like this.

1. I believe in a single divine being called god who watches over all our actions and all beings
2. I believe if you do good, it will come back to us either in our current life or the next (KARMA)
3. I believe in re-incarnation

 

[Ravioli]

Your more growing distant from religion only means that you are, with time, expanding your mind and letting it question and think rationally and logicaly about your religion helping you realize its dogma. You can think for yourself and no longer needs religion to guide you, your mind is the most important thing in your life, dont let it be oppressed by the religious schemes of false promises. Would you rather have a book tell you who you are, why you are here, where you will go, and how you will live like it has done with milions of people in history, or do you want to be one of the free people and think for yourself and experience life as you see it? You might only have one life, choose carefully what you spend it on.

I simply accept that i do not know why i exist, that simple. I dont need an answer, im not that desperate that i will make up a God as an answer. I dont want to give life a false, made up and deluted origin

 

[Shift]

Well no I get what you mean, because I was on that path a few times, strewn between religion and atheism, this was mainly because I think many things logically and things like the Big Bang and Evolution etc I think are good theories, but then there was a side of me that believed in God, and that undieing feeling I always have that there was something more to this world than what I look at. So sat down, thought about it for a while, and chose Dieism, a beleif in God starting the Big Bang, but also a beleif in Evolution etc.

 

[Ravioli]

Also, if you follow christianity you also follow hatred, discrimination and you honor your divine right to kill:

People who dont believe in your god
homosexuals
children who revolts against their parents.

No? Read for yourself?



"entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods,which thou hast not know, thou, nor thy fathers; ... But thou shalt surely KILL HIM; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to DEATH, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt STONE HIM with stones, that he DIE." Dt.13:6-10

"For yet seven days, and i will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that i have made will i DESTROY from the FACE OF THE EARTH" Gen 7:4

"He that beliveth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is CONDEMNED already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" Jn 3:18

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be PUT TO DEATH; their blood shall be upon them." Lev. 20:13

"He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely PUT TO DEATH." Exodus 21:15

"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth(dash) thy little ones against THE STONES" Psalm 137:9


Its funny how it commands you to kill when it says in the very 10 commandments THOU SHALL NOT KILL lol

 

[Shift]

Thats why I dont even believe in the Bible, it wasn't God who killed smited people, it was the weather, to which those people in those times wouldn't have had a clue about. Pretty much every single aspect of the Bible is either crap or fiction with the motive of spreading a good word. Its a book, nothing else.

 

[Asknoone]

I'd like to add my own, inane comment, and that's that I find it a tad ridiculous and silly when I read or hear that someone believes in 'God'. God, as in the magical man in the sky who watches over us. I don't know why that occurred to me so heavily when I read it, it just did.

/inane comment out

 

[Smoke]

Do away with all this needless worry and focus on something productive, either to you or those that you care about.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I think you're on the right track and you need to see it out for yourself. It sounds like you're in a transitional period, and whether that means you eventually sway one way or the other or stay in the midriff for comfort, it's something you need to make up your own mind about. To tell you something like "you need to decide" or "stop worrying about it" at the moment would probably be pointless, but I will say that what you're thinking is normal and you're not the only one who's ever felt that way, if that's any comfort at all.

To elaborate on your question, I personally don't see anything wrong with keeping religious beliefs as a sort of comfort, or a crutch, as this is the way I see many religious people anyway (I mean that as an observation, not an insult). As long as you don't see anything wrong or damaging about it yourself, then there's no need to force yourself to do away with it. If it becomes something you don't need anymore, then it will probably fade away by itself in time.

Also, I didn't think that post seemed like too much of a ramble. Infact, I think there's something about being really tired that erodes away the walls we put up and allows us to see ourselves more clearly at times. Atleast that's my experience.

 

[Shift]

I'd like to add my own, inane comment, and that's that I find it a tad ridiculous and silly when I read or hear that someone believes in 'God'. God, as in the magical man in the sky who watches over us. I don't know why that occurred to me so heavily when I read it, it just did.

/inane comment out

I dont look at God as some powerful dude sitting in the clouds looking down, I dont even think its a man, its merely a power, thats everywhere, I dont know, maybe quote for Star Wars with the Force, 'binds and surrounds' everything. We only portray it as a man because that way the human mind can comprehend it or make it easier for children to understand it.

 

[Smoke]

I smell religious debate.

 

[Bad^Hat]

No you don't. Atleast try and stick to his line of thought... hey, maybe we can have just one religious thread that doesn't turn into an athiest circle-jerk.

And no, I'm not speaking out on behalf on religion, I'm just saying (newsflash) - you guys can be annoying too. But I guess broad-sweeping "athieism ftw!" comments are flavour of the month right now, huh?

 

[Smoke]

Well, yeah I do. The word religion is like rotting meat by an anthill on these boards. But hey, stating I sense a debate about religion coming must make me an atheist looking for an argument, right?

Right.

:dozey:

 

[AntiAnto]

In my opinion, nobody can define entirely his/her set of beliefs in one category, or in one word that defines it. Beliefs are inherently subjective and derive directly from your individual as one.

When people ask me whether I'm an atheist or a Christian, I refuse to answer because I consider that my beliefs would take about 30 minutes to be virtually explained. I don't believe in a God, although I can't define myself as an atheist. I am a person with beliefs that depend uniquely on my subjective views and experiences that only I encountered in my 18 years of existence.

 

[The Brick]

In my opinion, nobody can define entirely his/her set of beliefs in one category, or in one word that defines it. Beliefs are inherently subjective and derive directly from your individual as one.

When people ask me whether I'm an atheist or a Christian, I refuse to answer because I consider that my beliefs would take about 30 minutes to be virtually explained. I don't believe in a God, although I can't define myself as an atheist. I am a person with beliefs that depend uniquely on my subjective views and experiences that only I encountered in my 18 years of existence.

Start a new church with the idea! You can rape plenty people's wallets for lots of moneys. May sound like a stupid idea but that's how most of the religions started.

 

[AntiAnto]

Start a new church with the idea! You can rape plenty people's wallets for lots of moneys. May sound like a stupid idea but that's how most of the religions started.

Except I don't consider my beliefs to be absolute nor relevant to everyone. I think it's a stupid idea to even try to justify your spiritual convictions to anyone else. It only depends on your experience in this world and nobody can share that completely.

 

[The Brick]

It was a joke to offend religious people.

 

[AntiAnto]

You buffon.

 

[Warbie]

In 100's of years from now a more educated people will look back to this century, unable to fathom how, with the level of knoweldge we have at our disposal, so many of us could believe in a god. Unless, of course, we blow ourselves in a massive war and put civilisation back a few 100 years. Religion will be rampant then. All hail the mighty A-Bomb, cleanser of the sinful, merciful sparer of the chosen.

 

[Cole]

Its funny how it commands you to kill when it says in the very 10 commandments THOU SHALL NOT KILL lol

Thats false. The bible doesn't actually tell you not to kill. It tells you not to murder. Murder is killing without justified cause. Killing someone because there gay would not be murder, because god said you should do it and therefor justified.

 

[Warbie]

Yup, same if you work on a sunday.

 

[Jerry_111]

does it matter? who cares? Man of Science, Man of Faith -- the two might just be interpretations of the same thing.

 

[theotherguy]

does it matter? who cares? Man of Science, Man of Faith -- the two might just be interpretations of the same thing.

That's precisely why it matters. They are different interpretations of the same thing. Both are in conflict because they both seek to describe the same universe. The only difference is, science's interpretations have evidence to back them up, while faith's are foundationless speculation.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Okay, well I'm up at 4:20(****ING TIME ALWAYS SHOWS UP FOR ME!) in the morning typing this after getting home, so please ignore any spelling errors or whatever, as I am very sleepy.

I was thinking lately a bit on religion, and my relationship with it. Over the past few months I have grown more and more bitter against my religion. I have grown impatient and annoyed with the extremist Christians that make a bad name for themselves and their own religion, ending up alienating people from it in the process. It's not even so much that, it's moderate Christians as well. I roll my eyes mentally when I hear them talking about good virtues and things that people shouldn't do... things that I myself don't really have a problem with, such as homosexuality or abortion, etc.

I guess I'm sort of growing more distant from my religion, straying away to my own path of self religion where it's just me and my beliefs, which in a way is where it's always been. I'm even finding myself less and less religious, at least from a Christian standpoint. However, I am not really bothered anymore when Christians tell me that I'm being un-christian like because I'm not following the bible, yadda yadda, or non-christians who are trying to goad me by saying the same thing, that I'm going to hell because I'm not following "what it means to be a christian". I'm sort of... well I don't know exactly how to put it, but 'nonchalant' works nicely for the moment.

People could even go so far as to say I'm starting to exhibit a lot of athiest traits and beliefs. However, I don't really find myself wishing to jump and cling to that label. Why? I don't know... but I do know that it'll do nothing for me. It's not like it'll change anything if I suddenly start calling myself athiest, or leaning towards athiest tendencies.

I do still have religious beliefs. I believe in a god, but a lot of that stems from my chidhood as it was engrained into me... not by my parents or society, but as myself. I nurtured that little seed of religion that my mother planted in me when I was very young, and it sort of grew and grew from there. I don't think it will ever change. I'm going to consider myself religious probably, at least in some extents, even though I might think it's silly or if other people ridicule me about it. Why? I guess the biggest reason is that there's some sort of comfort derived from that. It's the way I've always been since as long as I can remember... being religious, considering myself a christian. A 'badge' from my childhood, even if it has been tarnished and uncared for for so long.

So before I just ramble endlessly on which it feels like I'm doing, I just want to ask. Is it bad that I walk down this middle road, between religion and lack of religion? Is it some sort of big deal if somebody doesn't want to label himself an athiest or agnostic if he tends to be leaning that way a lot? Is it foolish to still have some religious beliefs even if those beliefs no longer impact or affect your life in pretty much any way, shape, or form, and you keep them as a comfort from childhood or young adulthood?

I don't really have a desire to discard my religious beliefs, because I don't think it'll have any effect on my life. I am not so eager to apply labels to myself anymore, as other people tend to do, uniting themselves under the banner of Athiesm, or as a Christian because of the annoyance I have been having lately at the things religious people are doing.


Hmm... okay this is the end. Lastly I want to ask, what the **** did I just talk about? Because it seems like a huge, sleepy ramble and not making much sense. I'll probably wake up and regret even writing it in the morning.

I went through a similar faze before I became an atheist...in fact I was midly fundamentalist mtyself (not like the bozoes in america, but still).

 

[WacK]

It's not wrong for you to feel like you do about religion..
Do EXACTLY what you feel is right in life then things will work out perfectly.
Be kind and forgiving and all the other good things then i'm sure you'll be on the right track.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

does it matter? who cares? Man of Science, Man of Faith -- the two might just be interpretations of the same thing.

Man of science = someone who trusts and believes in science, evidence, reason, etc.

Man of faith = someone who believes a fairy tale that creates bigotry and hatred with no evidence assouciated with it.

There not the same thing.

 

[Krynn72]

In before Absinthe.


Raziaar, you pretty much have the same beliefs as the rest of my family. None of them go to church anymore, but they all still believe in God and Heaven. I was talking to my dad once, and he said that he doesnt believe that you need to follow the bible, because he doesnt believe it is the word of god, but rather that as long as you live a good life, you can go to heaven.

I used to be like that too, but then I started talking about it with other people, thinking about it from a different perspective, and eventually I came to the conclusion that there is no god or heaven.

Also, dont base your beliefs off of what what the label is for it. You dont need to go to Atheist conventions just because you dont believe in god. If you have Atheistic beliefs then I guess you're an Atheist, but that doesnt throw you in with all the others. Dont think that its taking sides or anything, its just a name someone came up with for you're beliefs. I guess what i am saying is this: Believe in what you do, and dont pay any mind to what people say you are, because you're an individual whose mind is your own.

 

[Warbie]

Raziaar, you pretty much have the same beliefs as the rest of my family. None of them go to church anymore, but they all still believe in God and Heaven. I was talking to my dad once, and he said that he doesnt believe that you need to follow the bible, because he doesnt believe it is the word of god, but rather that as long as you live a good life, you can go to heaven.

I suspect this is the case with many religious people - at least it it with those that I know. Keep the comforting side of there being a reason for everything and life after death, without investing in the parts that scream against everything they learnt at school/university. They're already athiests, they just haven't put the thought in to realise it yet.

 

[DESSTROYER]

believe what you want to believe, but you shouldn't let people who make the religion have a bad name cause you to turn away from it

 

[DeusExMachina]

Man of science = someone who trusts and believes in science, evidence, reason, etc.

Man of faith = someone who believes a fairy tale that creates bigotry and hatred with no evidence assouciated with it.

There not the same thing.

Not every man of faith wants to blow up abortion clinics, suppress homosexuals, and tell people how to live their lives.

 

[Absinthe]

does it matter? who cares? Man of Science, Man of Faith -- the two might just be interpretations of the same thing.

Whojiggawhat?

 

[mastag]

I believe religion can help people, but it should not be an exact guide on how to live, or how to tell others around you how to live. I'm talking about religion in general, not just christianity. I think there MAY be some sort of force out there, but that humanity is too stupid to comprehend exactly what it is. And the Christian god according to the baptists does sound kind of like an old racist man yelling at you to get off his lawn.

 

[Fliko]

eventually I came to the conclusion that there is no god or heaven.

Believe in what you do, and dont pay any mind to what people say you are, because you're an individual whose mind is your own.

I find it hard to believe there isn't god...
A higher power MUST exist, it just might not be in the form we think of it (Some giant hand, or some giant human with infinite power.)

QFT on the last part of what I quoted

 

[Krynn72]

I find it hard to believe there is a god. Why MUST a higher power exist?

 

[Stigmata]

Razz-man: There's nothing wrong with "walking the line" between atheism and Christianity (or any other religion for that matter).

Fliko: There's no reason a higher power MUST exist. There are reasons why life and existence are so complex, and they all fundamentally revolve around the fact that our planet has an enormous amount of energy being constantly added to it via the Sun.

Not every man of faith wants to blow up abortion clinics, suppress homosexuals, and tell people how to live their lives.

No, but any man of faith is going to have at the very least one idea or opinion which is thoroughly incorrect.

Mastag: Religion can help people, but along with the help invariably comes some sort of influence of ignorance. Atheists and anyone who does not adhere to one particular religion have already (for the most part) picked out the "good" religious teachings from all the religious influence in society and tossed aside most of the baseless or dangerously ignorant ideas that are found in religious texts. And if we can do that, then religion serves no functional purpose.

 

[Raziaar]

To elaborate on your question, I personally don't see anything wrong with keeping religious beliefs as a sort of comfort, or a crutch, as this is the way I see many religious people anyway (I mean that as an observation, not an insult). As long as you don't see anything wrong or damaging about it yourself, then there's no need to force yourself to do away with it. If it becomes something you don't need anymore, then it will probably fade away by itself in time.

See that's just the thing. I don't use it like a crutch. It's more of an identity thing. I don't want to change that part about me, because I don't have to. I don't see any benefit of changing it. I can't fathom any possible benefit in my situation, to shed it aside and denounce it. It won't change anything, won't open my eyes to anything new.

 

[PvtRyan]

Not every man of faith wants to blow up abortion clinics, suppress homosexuals, and tell people how to live their lives.

But a man of faith is much more inclined to do so.

Faith by very definition is the suspension of reason, acceptance of something purely because you want it or because someone told you so.

Who is more likely to do the things you stated? A man of reason, or a man of faith? Faith is never a good thing, never has been and never will be.

 

[DeusExMachina]

So having faith in science isn't right? Having faith in an idea, a cause, belief, people is bad?

 

[PvtRyan]

So having faith in science isn't right? Having faith in an idea, a cause, belief, people is bad?

Faith is a belief not based on proof (hence: a suspension of reason). Any conviction that isn't based on anything and that will affect the lives of others that will have to deal with the decisions that you make based on those convictions is a bad thing yes.

You say faith in science, but is that faith? Science has established plenty of empirical credibility for itself. You would say that you "have faith in science" that it will find a cure for cancer. But is that a conviction based on nothing (ie: real faith) or a conviction based on the empirical knowledge that science has cured many diseases? You can trust science to cure a disease based on past accomplishments. You can trust a person because that person has always been good for you. You can trust your idea because you know you can do the thing you want based on past accomplishments and because you know what you are capable of.

Faith is basically taking up a conviction - a certainty - based on fuck all. You can "have faith" that a certain person will pull through their almost certainly fatal disease, but when you turn out to be right on that one, was it because there was reason to have that conviction or because you were lucky? Faith is essentially gambling, you may turn out to be right but it didn't have anything to do with making the right choice based on anything, you were just lucky, that's all.

So yes, real faith is always bad.

 

[Geogaddi]