onboard sound or pci?

[hyenolie]

i have a creative sound blaster in my pc, but im getting a asusp4c800e-deluxe that has on board sound.

im goona have a lot of wire management in my case, the less cards i have in there hte better. so i was wondering if onboard sound looses quality compared to pci sound. i have yamaha spaerks with a woofer that will go on the new motherboard.

what do u guys recommend. is the asus onbaoard sound good ? or bad?

 

[Majestic XII]

Im not good with mobo models but is it a nForce2?

 

[Maxi]

If it's got the AC 97 sound chipt then its as good and probably better then your current soundcard.

 

[hyenolie]

the mobo is an asus p4c800e-deluxe,

i think nforces are abit motherboards.

ok i found what type of intergrated sound it is

-ADI AD1985 SoundMAX 6-channel CODEC
-Audio Sensing and Enumeration Technology
-support S/PDIF out interface

is that a good onbaord soundcard?

 

[Sgt.Igneri]

Lol, nforce chipsets arent on Intel boards. They are on AMD mobos. The P4C800 series uses the intel 875 chipset.

Anyway, I would use the onboard stuff. Its probably better than an old sound blaster PCI.

 

[iamironsam]

I've got the p4c800-e as well and I use a Sound Blaster Audigy for my sound. The onboard AC97 chip has descent sound quality, but it tends to pop and crack once in a while.

Onboard audio also consumes more CPU time than having a seperate card with an audio processing unit. You can also get more audio channels and effects using EAX audio in games that support it. I recommend using your Sound Blaster, especially if it's an Audigy 1 or 2.

 

[oD1Nz]

Originally posted by iamironsam
The onboard AC97 chip has descent sound quality, but it tends to pop and crack once in a while.

I'll vouch for that - although, the only game I've found it "crackles and pops" in is Americas Armies main menu.

 

[hyenolie]

so what i should do is use my on board sound card for a while, and notice if my mp3s and games are cracking or have static, then i can decide if im satisfied with onboard or not, not bad, ill just test it out.

 

[RandomPING]

The real bonus to having a sound card is that it takes a lot of the work off the motherboard and CPU usage. It's not a huge issue, but it is something to consider, especially if you multi-task.

Personally I've noticed that I have a more stable system if i don't use the onboard sound and video. Usally the reason you'd experience problems with popping in your MP3s is because of the MP3 quality or an overworked Mobo or processor, at least in my experience.

So if the quality of the sound is the same comming out of the new mobo as it was comming out of the old sound blaster, then i'd throw the old sound blaster into the comp just to lighten the load on the CPU, it's just going to be collecting dust anyway.

 

[hyenolie]

ok heres a new thought we should consider, since the pci card will release mobo stress, and my new system

p4 3.0
2x512 hyperx 2-2-2-2-6-1 ddr400
asus 9800xt
p4c800e-deluxe

will be only used to run hl2, cscz, cs, 1942, then i dont want my mobo stresing out, i just want it to be fine and concentrate its power to the games,

but... on second thought, having a high performing system means it can handle it correct?

someone conferm this.

i just want the best situation for my new comp, im realy picky about this guys, sorry.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Originally posted by iamironsam
The onboard AC97 chip has descent sound quality, but it tends to pop and crack once in a while.

hmm.. i didn't know that... every once in a while the sound gets distorted while im playing a game.. (i have new speakers too and i thought maybe it was the speakers) and now that u mention it.. it might just be the onboard sound im using..

how can i confirm if its the problem?

 

[Faravid]

Originally posted by Dr. Freeman
hmm.. i didn't know that... every once in a while the sound gets distorted while im playing a game.. (i have new speakers too and i thought maybe it was the speakers) and now that u mention it.. it might just be the onboard sound im using..

how can i confirm if its the problem?

Buy a sound card that offers hardware acceleration to sound, the card does the job.

With non accelerated chip/card you do get that when processor is stressed enough.

 

[Majestic XII]

Originally posted by Sgt.Igneri
Lol, nforce chipsets arent on Intel boards. They are on AMD mobos. The P4C800 series uses the intel 875 chipset.

Anyway, I would use the onboard stuff. Its probably better than an old sound blaster PCI.

I didnt know it was a Intel mobo (but i had some thoughts about it) I only run good systems - AMD

 

[RandomPING]

Originally posted by hyenolie
but... on second thought, having a high performing system means it can handle it correct?

A high performing system definately will handle it better, but it's sort of like if you leave some spyware running in the background while you do things. The system will still run and you won't notice much of a change unless you start gaming. Most current games will still run the processor pretty heavy, and any strain you take off of it goes directly to performance in the game. And since you have different parts of the computer running different things (sound and the game in this case) then you can be sure that neither your sound or performance will take a hit.

Though the hit probably won't be too big, if the sound quality is much better comming out of the mobo the hit is worth it, especially because, for the most part, it won't be much of a difference, especially if you're running an older generation game.

 

[Sgt.Igneri]

Since the P4C's have hyper threading, no game uses more than 50% CPU usage- so far. I've gotten up to like 75% usage while running ad aware, winamp and some IE pages open.

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Dr. Freeman
hmm.. i didn't know that... every once in a while the sound gets distorted while im playing a game.. (i have new speakers too and i thought maybe it was the speakers) and now that u mention it.. it might just be the onboard sound im using..

how can i confirm if its the problem?

It's a very common problem with the AC97 chip. A lot of people over at the www.extremeoc.com website have had this problem. The distortion is part of it.

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Sgt.Igneri
Since the P4C's have hyper threading, no game uses more than 50% CPU usage- so far. I've gotten up to like 75% usage while running ad aware, winamp and some IE pages open.

Game sound puts a much bigger strain on your system than Winamp or I.E.. If you don't believe me, download 3DMark03 and run the Game Sound test. Without sound you may run around 90-100fps, with you'll only run about 70-80fps.

Onboard sound is processed within the CPU itself, using the AC97 chip to convert the digital code into analog sound signals. A sound card with a built in audio processing unit can take most of this strain off of the CPU, just as a video card can.

 

[Sgt.Igneri]

So, are we talking about FPS or CPU usage?

 

[hyenolie]

so....

should i put in my pci soundcard to releive stress off the cpu, so the cpu is concentrating running hl2?

 

[Faravid]

Originally posted by Sgt.Igneri
Since the P4C's have hyper threading, no game uses more than 50% CPU usage- so far. I've gotten up to like 75% usage while running ad aware, winamp and some IE pages open.

Still using CPU to sound can cause performance problems.

 

[RandomPING]

Originally posted by Sgt.Igneri
Since the P4C's have hyper threading, no game uses more than 50% CPU usage- so far. I've gotten up to like 75% usage while running ad aware, winamp and some IE pages open.

Hyperthreading is good, but it's only implimented on windows XP, so if you have 2000 or ::shudders:: 98, then you can't use it. You can still activate it, but in the little booklet that came with the processor that i got it strongly recomended that it be turned off unless you have XP. And since he's just upgrading he's probably still got 2000 or 98, or god rest his soul if he has ME.

Personally i have a 2.4 ghz and i'm still running at about 100% when i play planescape torment (windows 2000 machine). I know, different type of game and all that, and this one is poorly coded, but still the game studders a lot more if i have winamp or spyware or IM software open. I gotta quit after like 3 hours just to cool off my CPU, before i had my tornado it was sitting around 60 after a few hours of play, now it's 45 while i play, 30 idle.

Anyone have more info on the hyperthreading thing anyone? I've been currious but never gotten around to looking at it.

 

[pHATE1982]

What exactly is this PCI soundcard?

Cause I'm guessing it aint an original soundblaster

If it's an audigy 1 or 2, then keep it.. it's a good card with decent hardware acceleration.

If it's an SB live then it'll probably cause problems, as it's a complete asshat of a card. But you may be one of the lucky ones who doesn't have problems, in which case keep it.

If it's any older, bin it. Though I have a 2nd PC running an AWE32 heh...

 

[hyenolie]

i think its a creative sound blaster live, its not audigy 1 or 2, i hope im correct, under hardware devices under sound, i hvae so many things listed. but i remmember creative when i first bought it a long time ago

its been working fine, never had problems with it, i think it even supports surround sound because there are 5 holes in the back of my card,

never had a problem, maybe i should keep it right? just to make the cpu not stressed and only run programs,

oh ya how about a pci etherenet card? its a 3com etherlik xl 10/100 pci for pc. sould i put that in the asus mobo or use the onbrad nic that comes built it. the cpu is also strained when it is using onboard networking right?

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by Sgt.Igneri
So, are we talking about FPS or CPU usage?

The FPS drops I am talking about are due to CPU usage. The 50% CPU usage you are talking about is actually an average. It's a bit complicated, but I could explain it to you if you like.

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by hyenolie
so....

should i put in my pci soundcard to releive stress off the cpu, so the cpu is concentrating running hl2?

Yes.

 

[pHATE1982]

Originally posted by hyenolie
i think its a creative sound blaster live, its not audigy 1 or 2, i hope im correct, under hardware devices under sound, i hvae so many things listed. but i remmember creative when i first bought it a long time ago

its been working fine, never had problems with it, i think it even supports surround sound because there are 5 holes in the back of my card,

never had a problem, maybe i should keep it right? just to make the cpu not stressed and only run programs,

oh ya how about a pci etherenet card? its a 3com etherlik xl 10/100 pci for pc. sould i put that in the asus mobo or use the onbrad nic that comes built it. the cpu is also strained when it is using onboard networking right?

I have an on board, and a seperate NIC running 24/7... and there is no performance drop compared to running no network cards at all. If there is it's REALLY REALLY small. So just use the onboard one cause mine has been faultless.

And live cards are okay surround sound cards if it works properlly. But don't be surprised if one day u install a game and the sound is f*cked up. Both me and my old flat mate had one, his was buggy as hell, mine worked fine... until I installed BF1942. Gee, live cards don't like that game. I'm glad i upgraded to an Audigy :cheese:

 

[Subz]

Originally posted by RandomPING
Hyperthreading is good, but it's only implimented on windows XP, so if you have 2000 or ::shudders:: 98, then you can't use it. You can still activate it, but in the little booklet that came with the processor that i got it strongly recomended that it be turned off unless you have XP. And since he's just upgrading he's probably still got 2000 or 98, or god rest his soul if he has ME.

Personally i have a 2.4 ghz and i'm still running at about 100% when i play planescape torment (windows 2000 machine). I know, different type of game and all that, and this one is poorly coded, but still the game studders a lot more if i have winamp or spyware or IM software open. I gotta quit after like 3 hours just to cool off my CPU, before i had my tornado it was sitting around 60 after a few hours of play, now it's 45 while i play, 30 idle.

Anyone have more info on the hyperthreading thing anyone? I've been currious but never gotten around to looking at it.

WOW..no i understand why when i turn off HT i get higher 3dmarks scors. lol thx for the info. ILl get xp now just to see how HT runs.

 

[hyenolie]

im really confused now, smoeone is saying use the pci cards, and another person is saying dont use em, my system can handle it.

so what should i do? what are the pros and cons?

 

[Subz]

dude. use whatever sounds better to you.

also do a benchmark using each see which is higher score.

 

[hyenolie]

i want my case to be clean, as in less shit in there the better, but since onboard stuff use the cpu's strenght i dont want my cpu to be distracted from running hl2.

cons of onboard: cpu distracted, static sound
pros of onboard: more room, nice and neat.

cons for PCI: no room, more wires, more entropy.
pros of PCI: no static, no disturbance to CPU,

so i think im goona put my soundcard and nic in the p4c800e-deluxe.

i just want my 3.0ghz to be as stable as posible. i dont want it running a bunch of stuff. only games.

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by hyenolie
i want my case to be clean, as in less shit in there the better, but since onboard stuff use the cpu's strenght i dont want my cpu to be distracted from running hl2.

cons of onboard: cpu distracted, static sound
pros of onboard: more room, nice and neat.

cons for PCI: no room, more wires, more entropy.
pros of PCI: no static, no disturbance to CPU,

so i think im goona put my soundcard and nic in the p4c800e-deluxe.

i just want my 3.0ghz to be as stable as posible. i dont want it running a bunch of stuff. only games.

Subz made a good suggestion. If you're worried about performance, try playing some games with and without your sound card. If there's a perfomance hit without out, then use it. If there isn't a performance hit and you can't tell the difference in quality, then don't use a sound card.

As for the NIC card, there's no reason not to use the onboard LAN. There is absolutely no performance hit because everything is done on a 3COM chip on the motherboard. It's totally different than sound.