One more thread about "toned down" enemy AI...

Originally posted by Claws

Stop making shit up people.
Click to expand...

There are 250 posts in the Valve Info thread. Why should we look throught them just to find the answer for you?
 
Claws, if all those quotes are correct, it looks like your in the very small minority.
 
Ok, like many people have said, its toned down, as roach mentioned, the soldiers run back under the dumper thats falling, Valve has stated that the demo included specific tactical posistions for the soldiers to stand in, so that the demo played as they wanted, ie. all soldiers getting killed by the world scenery.

I can't remember where, but i have read that the soldiers had stay put flags applied in most of the vids, ill be buggered if i can be arsed searching through 17 odd pages of valve info again AND various interviews/previews. The reason most people are reacting strongly to this thread is because it HAS been discussed and settled many times, whether the search shows it or not.
And everyone who stated the AI for HL was better is correct. When asked, valve stated that nme's will take cover when reloading and will try to flank the player, look at the bug bait vid at the end in the last room, the two soldiers just stand and wait while they reload, no matter how fast gordon rushes them, they don't walk or run, or make ANY other movements at all. Use your common sense.
 
Originally posted by LoneDeranger
There are 250 posts in the Valve Info thread. Why should we look throught them just to find the answer for you?
Click to expand...

Look through them? you mean you haven't already read the whole thread? I've read that thread several times, looking specifically for this info. Why would I start this thread and make this effort to argue against you all if this info was available at the info thread?
 
maybe they wanted to blow people's minds with the real deal once they bought it..
 
Yes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Solitaire [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:20 PM
To: Gabe Newell
Subject: One quick question


Hi sorry to bother you. This will be my first and last email to you
with any questions re:HL2.

I am in the middle of a debate with a particularly hard-headed guy on
halflife2.net's forums. My question is, to settle our dispute:

Was the Combine AI toned down in the Barricades video - for any reason
at all? (Don't feel the need to elaborate, just a yes or no will
suffice.)

Thanks in advance whether you answer or not. Can't wait to purchase
this one of course, like half the world is waiting!
Solitaire
www.tdr-px.com
 
Originally posted by Claws
Look through them? you mean you haven't already read the whole thread? I've read that thread several times, looking specifically for this info. Why I start this thread and make this effort to argue against you all if this info was available at the info thread?
Click to expand...

Oops, look at what I found here:


3. Will the enemy ever go on the offensive in a group and use flanking
tactics and such in single-player?

[Gabe Newell] Yes.
 
Originally posted by Solidarnosi
Yes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Solitaire [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:20 PM
To: Gabe Newell
Subject: One quick question


Hi sorry to bother you. This will be my first and last email to you
with any questions re:HL2.

I am in the middle of a debate with a particularly hard-headed guy on
halflife2.net's forums. My question is, to settle our dispute:

Was the Combine AI toned down in the Barricades video - for any reason
at all? (Don't feel the need to elaborate, just a yes or no will
suffice.)

Thanks in advance whether you answer or not. Can't wait to purchase
this one of course, like half the world is waiting!
Solitaire
www.tdr-px.com
Click to expand...

LOL pwned :cheers:
 
Originally posted by LoneDeranger
Oops, look at what I found here:


3. Will the enemy ever go on the offensive in a group and use flanking
tactics and such in single-player?

[Gabe Newell] Yes.
Click to expand...

And this proves that it was toned down how?
 
Originally posted by Solidarnosi
Yes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Solitaire [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:20 PM
To: Gabe Newell
Subject: One quick question


Hi sorry to bother you. This will be my first and last email to you
with any questions re:HL2.

I am in the middle of a debate with a particularly hard-headed guy on
halflife2.net's forums. My question is, to settle our dispute:

Was the Combine AI toned down in the Barricades video - for any reason
at all? (Don't feel the need to elaborate, just a yes or no will
suffice.)

Thanks in advance whether you answer or not. Can't wait to purchase
this one of course, like half the world is waiting!
Solitaire
www.tdr-px.com
Click to expand...

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! You can go ahead and put that in the Valve info thread, I assure you it was not confirmed before.
 
satisfied now claws? Now can we let this thread die please:cheers:
 
Very satisfied, thank you Solidarnosi. I've tried e-mailing him several times to no avail.

[immature]
LoneDeranger, I don't see how I got "pwned" when all of you could not provide one link to an official confirmation, this e-mail was written today, specifically because of this thread.
[/immature]

Thanks again, Solidarnosi.
 
[mature]
Even if such an email did not exist in that form, it was obvious by piecing together other information.
[/mature]

And I bet the only reason Gabe did not reply is because of your negative attitude.
 
There is a difference between pretending that something is confirmed and it actually being confirmed no?

Anyways I'll stop now. No hard feelings. :)
 
Originally posted by koopa
Unlikely, if you don't mind me saying so. I can't think of many games where the enemy stands still when you do - why would they do that?
Click to expand...

They do, just turn on god mode in any game, stand in front of a group of enemies, do not move or shoot, and they'll just stand there and shoot.

Why they wont do anything? Well because you dont either, it's an action reaction system. If you shoot, the AI in most games finds cover, if you just stand there and don't do anything they won't use well planned tactics to surround you. You don't act, they dont react.
 
Originally posted by PvtRyan
They do, just turn on god mode in any game, stand in front of a group of enemies, do not move or shoot, and they'll just stand there and shoot.
Click to expand...

I realize this is a whole different argument, and you probably know this, but just in case, God mode was not turned on during the videos.
 
thats right, just the damage the nme dealt was severely toned down
 
Originally posted by Claws
I realize this is a whole different argument, and you probably know this, but just in case, God mode was not turned on during the videos.
Click to expand...

Not in that sense no, but you could easily take many hits, so practically, yes god mode was on.

But what I can't explain is the lack of movement in the Tunnels video, you do shoot, but the guy just stands there.
 
Ok I just found this thread and though it's a little late to participate in it, here's what I have to say. Please have (I'm pretty sure most of you haven't) a short look at the original post:
Originally posted by Claws
You guys keep saying that Valve said the AI was toned down during the presentation. Can someone please give me a link where this was mentioned officially by Valve employees? A lot of BS gets mixed with up facts in these forums and I'd like to see where this was mentioned. Do not reply if you don't have a source.
Click to expand...
Now please tell me where exactly he says anything about the AI not being toned fown. The whole point of his question was finding a source of our "information", he even asked NOT to answer if we DON'T have one, is that so hard to read? In reply on this legitimate question he got a bunch of immature and unpolite replies, and until that email to Gabe (that of course also had to contain an insult) not one of them had anything to do with the original question. That is by the way one of the reasons why I don't like to post here, you never know if you're going to be flamed by some 13 year olds no matter if there's any reason to, it's simply annoying.
So please guys, remember that there's a world outside of this forum, you're not "pwning" anyone when you post on an internet forum, and that those who already know how to reply in grammatical correct sentences and in a mature manner could probably beat the pert kiddies up in no time.
Flame me if you want, I don't give a ****, I don't even know you guys.
 
Re: Re: One more thread about "toned down" enemy AI...

Originally posted by lambda^2
Ok I just found this thread and though it's a little late to participate in it, here's what I have to say. Please have (I'm pretty sure most of you haven't) a short look at the original post:

Now please tell me where exactly he says anything about the AI not being toned fown. The whole point of his question was finding a source of our "information", he even asked NOT to answer if we DON'T have one, is that so hard to read? In reply on this legitimate question he got a bunch of immature and unpolite replies, and until that email to Gabe (that of course also had to contain an insult) not one of them had anything to do with the original question. That is by the way one of the reasons why I don't like to post here, you never know if you're going to be flamed by some 13 year olds no matter if there's any reason to, it's simply annoying.
So please guys, remember that there's a world outside of this forum, you're not "pwning" anyone when you post on an internet forum, and that those who already know how to reply in grammatical correct sentences and in a mature manner could probably beat the pert kiddies up in no time.
Flame me if you want, I don't give a ****, I don't even know you guys.
Click to expand...

Late is better than never. :cheers:
 
Still, we didn't really need to e-mail Gabe about that, we pretty much knew it anyway.
 
Thank god. This is the first official word. Claws, I understand your position completely. I've asked for official links before and gotten nothing. Finally, instead of everyone assuming the AI was toned down, we have some real evidence. It was not "obvious." Companies always go on about how great their AI is. I remember Quake 2 advertised that it had advanced AI that would "hunt you down." If hunt you down means stand still and shoot, then that's what they did.
 
I would like to point out that I based my answers on the AI of Half Life and the AI of your Allies in Half Life 2. I didn't base them on any Marketing for the game.

They could've had better AI if they just copied and pasted from the original Half Life AI.

You really don't need to e-mail Gabe all the time. Some answers are obvious. This is almost as bad as when the person who e-mailed Gabe asking how well his 3.0 GHz 1Gb Ram + ATI Radeon 9800 would run Half Life 2. Some answers are pretty obvious.

I don't see why people need all these questions answered for them. You've got a brain, use it.

The Alternative to "The AI was incomplete/toned down" is just absurd. It would've mean that someone at Valve would have made a concious decision that the Combine AI should be NOTHING compared to the AI of your allies. When you look at all the evidence, you can see what must be the right answer.

This is why we don't ALWAYS need official sources. We can work things out for ourselves.
 
Friend, you don't even realize the point I was arguing. You can't go around saying things like "we've concluded the AI is toned down" or "AI was toned down ... Gabe said so himself" if it never happened. Even if you "pieced" the information together. That's false information.
 
Originally posted by Claws
Friend, you don't even realize the point I was arguing. You can't go around saying things like "we've concluded the AI is toned down" or "AI was toned down ... Gabe said so himself" if it never happened. Even if you "pieced" the information together. That's false information.
Click to expand...

You need a dictionary. It wasn't false it was just thinking it had been confirmed and some people thought it had been officially confirmed. They made a mistake, it's not a big deal.

It wasn't as if the suggestion of toned down AI was unreasonable. The point I'm trying to make is that you don't need Gabe to tell you everything.

Just because something hasn't been confirmed doesn't automatically mean it's false.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to mention you've caught me on a bad day, I'm feeling very irritable so that's why I'm arguing a lot.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people assume things, and then other people assume that those assumptions have been officially confirmed. It is irrelevant what this information is, what is relevant is that people speculate and then pretend that it is official, which is wrong to the least.
 
I actually can understand from a certain point of view what Claws is getting at. I'm impressed with his tenacity, to be honest. As for Lamba's comments, if you think calling someone hard-headed (i.e., stubborn) is an insult, grow some thicker skin; that is simply a character trait, many times a good one to have. Claws doesn't seem to have taken insult by my calling him hard-headed, & didn't ask anyone to defend him either.

What was frustrating me & many others is the insistance on irrefutable proof, versus just making an educated opinion based upon some pretty obvious clues from the videos and previous Half-Life experiences (Valve's AI was fairly revolutionary for its time, no reason to think it would devolve after five years). But even that is getting somewhat away from the gist of Claw's arguments.

I thought it was a pretty good debate myself. I kinda enjoyed it --- Soli
 
Claws had a good point. A lot of people on these forums are responding to questions with "of course Valve said so" when, in fact, Valve has said nothing of the sort. If you haven't got a concrete reply to give, don't press the reply button. The number of completely unsubstantiated "YOU IDIOT VALVE HAS SAID THIS SOMEWHERE" posts is irritating and they only serve to confuse everyone. Unless you can quote directly from an email from Valve or from an interview, don't bother.
 
Originally posted by MaDMaXX
Ok, like many people have said, its toned down, as roach mentioned, the soldiers run back under the dumper thats falling, Valve has stated that the demo included specific tactical posistions for the soldiers to stand in, so that the demo played as they wanted, ie. all soldiers getting killed by the world scenery.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I read somewhere (in a interview with Doug I think, or it could have been Gabe) where they were talking about AI vs. scripting. They said that they "hinted" for the Combine to be in specific locations to demostrate the interaction with the enviroment (ie standing in front of the swinging bar and under the dumpster.)

I also agree that it was really obvious that the AI was turned down when you think of the AI of the original HL and scenes from HL2 where Combine are hunting the player.
 
I've been looking for the article but can't find it... I know I read it tho, 100%. I look for it some more tomorrow.

The closest thing I found was this:

Many people watching the movies released by Valve wondered if the events were predetermined or really free from the bonds put by the programmers (I'm referring in particular to the "Trap Town" movie where a building collapses after the detonation of a grenade). Could you please clear up this doubt?

That's physically simulated. As I mentioned before, with each generation of games, we move more stuff from the "we have to author this because we can't simulate it in an interesting and entertaining way, yet" into the "now we understand it well enough and have the horsepower to run this in real-time". Trap Town shows a lot of physical simulation interacting with AI.

http://www.gamescenter.sm/spec.php?id_r=33&pag=1
 
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