Osama's Truce Proposal

[Absinthe]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,,1690470,00.html

Me? I think that if we make any kind of withdrawal from those areas, it's not going to be because of this pitiful ****.

Sorry, but when you murder thousands of innocent people, a truce kind of seems past the point of no return.

 

[CptStern]

kinda seems like a waste of time imho, the bush admin hasnt been concerned with Osama since 9/12. It's not like this will make them stand up and take notice

 

[Yuri]

kinda seems like a waste of time imho, the bush admin hasnt been concerned with Osama since 9/12. It's not like this will make them stand up and take notice

:upstare: There are loads of troops in Afghanastan still, you know. Just not enough... what with all this dumbass Iraq war going on.

Even if the US did withdraw from all of the Middle East (which won't happen), it's not like Osama would be like "OH COOL THX GUYS I GUESS I'LL CALL OFF THE PLANNED TERRORIST ATTACKS THAT WE WERE PLANNING TO DO. KTHXBYE!"

 

[CptStern]

18,000 as compared to 150,000 in iraq ..which kinda throws this whole "lets get those people responsible for 9/11" idea right out the door

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Oil.

Plus the dumbass redneck contingent thought Saddam and Osama were buttbuddies. The taliban still isn't wiped out. The greatest military power on earth can't take out guys in caves. It's incredble really, you'd think they were allowing them to keep some power so they're always a threat so it justifies invasions, and justifies raping your liberties and helps grow the defence industry which creates jobs and beefs up the economy.

Kathkaskung could explain it with better use of mysterious grammatical techniques.

 

[Lucid]

Sorry for blowing up the WTC, Americans... Can we please call truce, yes?

:|

I thought Osama was dead. o.o

 

[Adabiviak]

Who's the bigger wanker? W or OBL? Maybe if we put them in a jar and shook them up, they'd cancel out. Seriously, it's like having two stooges in charge of opposing military forces. It's all fun and games until someone you care about gets hurt. Then you wait for the other stooge to come out! Iran? N. Korea?

Did I mention that much of this strife is centered around religion? Do you know how much lamer that makes this seem to a pure atheist? Sure, I'll take a truce. Sign me up for communion while you're at it.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

What truce proposal? He is a just as much a hypocrit and a liar as Bush. He loves violence and admits it in this very same proposal. I dont understand how he expects to achieve peace when he openly admits he thinks the only way for a man to die is in arms, killing, fighting. Anyways we need a new administration before anything actually happens along the lines of "truce".

Who's the bigger wanker? W or OBL? Maybe if we put them in a jar and shook them up, they'd cancel out. Seriously, it's like having two stooges in charge of opposing military forces. It's all fun and games until someone you care about gets hurt. Then you wait for the other stooge to come out! Iran? N. Korea?

Did I mention that much of this strife is centered around religion? Do you know how much lamer that makes this seem to a pure atheist? Sure, I'll take a truce. Sign me up for communion while you're at it.

QFMFT

 

[Icarusintel]

A proposal of truce here seems to be trying to garn er even more support, since the US clearly doesn;t negotiate with terrorists, also, this tape is probably old. The simple fact is that even if we put more troops in the country, searching through caves, chances are he's not still there. Beyond that, my bet is that Bin Laden's dead. His threats are vague, and so is his discussion of recent terrorist events. Besides, killing Bin Laden doesn;t really do anything. It most certainly wouldn;t mean the end of the campaign against terrorism, even though I'm sure there would be a big push upon his death for the US to step back from it's current activities.

And if he is dead, don;t expect an announcement for weeks, months, or probably years, because it will be done when it will have the most impact and won;t really affect the ongoing operations in Iraq.

 

[DreamThrall]

Plus the dumbass redneck contingent thought Saddam and Osama were buttbuddies.

If you're talking about the Bush admin, then no, they didn't - they just wanted the rest of us Americans to think so.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Besides, killing Bin Laden doesn;t really do anything. It most certainly wouldn;t mean the end of the campaign against terrorism, even though I'm sure there would be a big push upon his death for the US to step back from it's current activities.

And if he is dead, don;t expect an announcement for weeks, months, or probably years, because it will be done when it will have the most impact and won;t really affect the ongoing operations in Iraq.

True. Announcing that Bin Laden is dead will do nothing to help the Allies against the terrorists. The whole idea of having conflicting reports about his death /whereabouts/health/etc is to keep Al Queda off balance. If they know for a fact their main leader is dead, then they have a structure already in place that states who will be in charge in his stead. With conflicting reports, there is a much greater chance that the lesser generals will conduct operations that might conflict with others or just piss other generals off so that the internal conflict will become our ally as well. I for one never want to officially hear that he is dead (though I fondly think about him rotting in a cave after dying a painful death from kidney failure).

 

[Yuri]

If you're talking about the Bush admin, then no, they didn't - they just wanted the rest of us Americans to think so.

Its kinda obvious that he was talking about redneck Americans...

Dunno what the numbers really are Stern, but 18,000 does seem like quite a lot. Plus, Afghanistan fighting would be fought with more missiles and bombs, as the whole "mountain fighting" thing is really like suicide for ground troops. I would agree that we should have never went to Iraq, but I think the 150,000 Americans that are there should stay there until it is stable...

And "fighting guys in caves" is a lot harder than a lot of people might think... I mean, the Soviet Union couldn't do it with a full-on attack... :|

 

[M1CH43L]

18,000 as compared to 150,000 in iraq ..which kinda throws this whole "lets get those people responsible for 9/11" idea right out the door

Did you just compare America's military to the insurgents?? America has so many resources, and technolgical advantages that you cannot compare them like that. Compare the Gulf War for example. - http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/
America was allied with other countries, and save for france, other countries will join in, and their are already some European forces already in Iraq helping America. Maybe Iraq was a bad decision, but America will not lose.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Did you just compare America's military to the insurgents?? America has so many resources, and technolgical advantages that you cannot compare them like that. Compare the Gulf War for example. - http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/
America was allied with other countries, and save for france, other countries will join in, and their are already some European forces already in Iraq helping America. Maybe Iraq was a bad decision, but America will not lose.

What's that matter? That's like saying "Maybe raping this woman was a bad decision, but I'll just kill her afterwards so she can't tell anyone."

 

[M1CH43L]

except america got raped when they blew up the world trade centers and part of the pentagon. You're saying America got raped so shes serving justice right?

 

[DeusExMachina]

Well I was referring to your last sentence. Even if there is a "win" per se, what have we won? bin Laden isn't in Iraq. There obviously weren't any weapons in Iraq, right from the ****ing start we knew that was bullshit. So what? We win a couple more decades of oil to pull us through? No matter what America does from here on in, it can only go down. Somewhere in the Middle East, an Islamic fundamentalist associated with terrorism hates me simply because I am American and live in America. Sure, I don't hate them. Hell, I even believe they should have a fair share of land in Israel/Palestine! But no, I am hated simply because of a country I was born into. That's bullshit right there. That goes back right to my rape analogy.
"Well I didn't plan on being on this street corner, but I guess its my fault I got raped."

Getting back to the main point, a lot of people dislike us simply because of Iraq. Not just the Middle East. There's someone in Canada, Britain, Ireland, Russia, Austria, who hates me because I live in America and supposedly, because I live in America, I automatically support the war. I support right wing fascism. I support death, war, and violence. America has damaged its own self-image and the people's image. It saddens me.

 

[AndrewJ]

How to stop America

"ban the sale of tomato ketchup...there Osama Bin Laden.. how to bring America to it's knee's.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Well I was referring to your last sentence. Even if there is a "win" per se, what have we won? bin Laden isn't in Iraq. There obviously weren't any weapons in Iraq, right from the ****ing start we knew that was bullshit. So what? We win a couple more decades of oil to pull us through? No matter what America does from here on in, it can only go down. Somewhere in the Middle East, an Islamic fundamentalist associated with terrorism hates me simply because I am American and live in America. Sure, I don't hate them. Hell, I even believe they should have a fair share of land in Israel/Palestine! But no, I am hated simply because of a country I was born into. That's bullshit right there. That goes back right to my rape analogy.
"Well I didn't plan on being on this street corner, but I guess its my fault I got raped."

Getting back to the main point, a lot of people dislike us simply because of Iraq. Not just the Middle East. There's someone in Canada, Britain, Ireland, Russia, Austria, who hates me because I live in America and supposedly, because I live in America, I automatically support the war. I support right wing fascism. I support death, war, and violence. America has damaged its own self-image and the people's image. It saddens me.

sadly, most Americans don't see it as you do...if they did, America would may still have this damaged image but the difference would be that the people of America would at least do something positive about it in the future... :|

its freightening to think what the future holds after 9/11, Afganistan/Iraq invasion.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

freeman.. why do you hate the baby jesus? ;(

 

[K e r b e r o s]

A truce? Hardly. We'll sign the truce, and then he'll stab us with the pen we signed it with! There's no surrender until Al-Qaeda dissolves IMHO.

 

[operative x]

Oil.

Plus the dumbass redneck contingent thought Saddam and Osama were buttbuddies.

Why would Bin Laden be concerned of us being in Iraq if he had nothing to do with Saddams regime? Obviously there must be some kind of connection if he wants us out. Right? I think his constant request to ask us to leave Iraq shows that there must be lots of operatives/officers still in Iraq unable to act with our current millitaries suppression over them.

 

[CptStern]

A truce? Hardly. We'll sign the truce, and then he'll stab us with the pen we signed it with! There's no surrender until Al-Qaeda dissolves IMHO.

there will be no truce ever. if there was, the US/military industrial complex/oil barons/neo-cons have no way of getting the american public to support their plans for imperialism. This is their golden opportunity to do what they want because the war on terror is self perpetuating and an easy sell on the citizens of america

 

[DeusExMachina]

Watch out stern, after we conquer the Middle East, we'll be in Canada soon enough

 

[Icarusintel]

there will be no truce ever. if there was, the US/military industrial complex/oil barons/neo-cons have no way of getting the american public to support their plans for imperialism. This is their golden opportunity to do what they want because the war on terror is self perpetuating and an easy sell on the citizens of america

There won;t be a truce because it would be a farce, besides the fact that the US does not negotiate with terrorists

 

[CptStern]

There won;t be a truce because it would be a farce, besides the fact that the US does not negotiate with terrorists

to their detriment ....funny how the US never bothered to find out why they want to destroy america, probably because it'd put them in a bad light

Watch out stern, after we conquer the Middle East, we'll be in Canada soon enough

would never happen

 

[Yuri]

would never happen

I think that may have been a joke. :upstare:

This thread should be about Osama though, and not about Iraq. They are two completely different topics in reality.

 

[Solaris]

War is Peace makes more and more sense, not the more I read 1984, but the more I watch the news.


Alqueda is a manufactured threat.

 

[Bob_Marley]

besides the fact that the US does not negotiate with terrorists

*cough* Northen Ireland *cough*. Not only did the US govenment encourage negotations with the IRA, US citizens activly supported them and supplied weapons.

 

[DeusExMachina]

The US government also supported right wing fascist groups in latin america so they could take down left wing governments.

And what do you expect? Your average US citizen is dumb :|.

 

[kaf11]

Maybe Iraq was a bad decision, but America will not lose.

Lose what? People keep buying into the Bush administration's belief that we'll go on to defeat every terrorist in Iraq, and then every one in the world. This is simply impossible even for the best military in the world. Defeat terrorists? Who the hell is going to surrender to us?


We are chasing an unattainable goal. Victory is a fantasy.

 

[Bob_Marley]

War is Peace makes more and more sense, not the more I read 1984, but the more I watch the news.


Alqueda is a manufactured threat.

you are correct. Because the US government wanted to issue a warrent for Bin Laden's arrest pre 9/11 the only way they could do it was through the organised crime laws. So they gave Bin Laden a fictional Terrorist organisation that became a threat that was all too real. Not that big, but still, real.

 

[AzzMan]

A truce? Hardly. We'll sign the truce, and then he'll stab us with the pen we signed it with! There's no surrender until Al-Qaeda dissolves IMHO.

The extremists will never dissolve. When the US steps down and a new nation takes place as the main superpower, you guessed it, they'll go right after whoever takes our place...

 

[CptStern]

Did you just compare America's military to the insurgents??

how could you come to that conclusion? I didnt imply anything of the sort. I said there's 18,000 troops in afghanistan and 150 k in iraq implying that iraq is more importaant afghanistan which contrary to what the US said when the war on terror began: "America will hunt down Osama"

America has so many resources, and technolgical advantages that you cannot compare them like that. Compare the Gulf War for example. - http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/
America was allied with other countries,

yes I am aware of the US' capabilities ..and the gulf war illustrates that perfectly: American losses: 148, Iraqi losses: 70,000 to 100,000 soldiers over 30,000 civlians and 12 years of sanctions that claimed between 700,000 iraqis and 1.5 million ..half being children under the age of 5

and save for france, other countries will join in, and their are already some European forces already in Iraq helping America.

and more and more are leaving every month ..you'll be alone soon enough

Maybe Iraq was a bad decision, but America will not lose.

you've already lost. You lost 2100 americans (it took 5 years to lose that much in vietnam), you've lost all credibility on the world stage, you lost the war on terror because your little side trip to iraq multiplied the amount of terrorists gunning for the US ...iraq is a virtual training ground that will spawn dozens if not hundreds of attacks on the US for generations to come ..9/11 will seem like a cakewalk in comparison

 

[M1CH43L]

and more and more are leaving every month ..you'll be alone soon enough

We were absolutely alone when we started, but now with the London attacks and all, they're threating the european nations, its up to them, they can fight or stay. We started alone, and we'll fight.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Bin Laden is trying to be the "Sala Hu Din" of the 21st century.
He wants to bind the entire Islam in a battle against the west, to push for Islamic world domination. Even if more than half the islamic people ( like some i know ) dont give a f%$^k, Osama still feels the need to rape their lives in a global Jihad vs the West.
By doing so, he tries to trick the USA/the west into attacking Islamic countries, with a lame terrorist attack which he explains as "self-defence". He knows with Bush the time is right, and Bush falls for the plan.
"Christian" soldiers march into afghanistan and iraq, and all the CNN's bs cant heal what a single muslim tells his fellow muslim : the new crusades have started we must defend ourselves against the christian oppressors.
Hence slowly Osama's plan is working and more and more polarisation is commencing.
Eventually years of Islamic and Christian "friendship" go down the drain in only a matter of 4 years. Isnt the world funny.
In order to understand Osama, you have to understand the Islam and its roots. I've done alot of reading on the Islam and the Qu'ran, and basically violance is promoted ONLY IN SELF DEFENCE.
Going just a tad deeper, the Islam was founded out of pure "christians and jews are lying and oppressing. They have altered the word of god"
Whether this is right or wrong who cares, but for Osama this is the key to unlock his "holy war on the west".
His attacks he portrays as "self defence" and the western attacks are acts of cruel violance, covered up by typical "western lies".
The more we fall for this and play along the lines of Osama, the more territory we lose on all fronts-> we're digging our own graves here...
Oppressor or defender differ only in matter of opinion, hence the "weak" relationship between Christianity and Islam is shattered in a heartbeat, especially since there are so many illiterate islamic people depending on Imams to tell them whats right or wrong.

I hope there's nobody "stupid enough" to think Osama disliked the USA attacking Afghanistan OR Iraq. Its exactly what he wants.
He was a nobody before, he's a world Islamic leader now.
Sala-Hu-Din has returned. Now pray hard Osama f$%^ks up somewhere for he now has all the cards