Overwatch / CP organization

[Cheomesh]

DISCLAIMER: I am aware HL2 is an 'arcade shooter'. I do feel, however, that there should be a method to every madness.


What we have seen of the Combine infantry so far:

Civil Protection: Units designed to police cities. Armed with pistols and stunsticks by default. Use MP7's in heavy situations.

Overwatch Transhuman soldier: Units designed for combat. Armed with shotguns, MP7's, grenades, and AR2's.

Nova Prospekt Guards: Security guards. Seen wielding the same weapons as Overwatch transhumans.

Overwatch Elite: Units that seem to be mostly a Citadel guard unit, judging by the bright white armor. They are armed only with AR2's (and IIRC shotguns), and have access to the energy core launchers.

Overwatch Scout: We first saw these in Episode 2, near the downed Advisor's barn. They look similarly to the Overwatch soldiers but as far as I recall only wield a shotgun. They have orange goggles, and an orange 'elite' symbol on their shoulder. I'm assuming they're some sort of scout unit, which would explain why we've never seen them before (We're out of Combine controlled lands now).


When we fight the enemy on any level in any of the games, they tend to be of an exclusive type, with one other type involved. For example, we fight either only a large group of Overwatch only, or they'll have some elites mixed into it as well. They are, however, generally a mass of AI units fighting alone.

Personally, I think the better way to have done it was have us recognize 'enemies' not by what they look like alone, but how they appear in groups.

For example, in a purely combat situation, like in HL2's street war, finding combine units dispatched in groups of four that hang closer together with members of their group than members of another group.

If the group is a CP unit, issue them with only MP7's, or earlier in the game, Mach pistols. CP deployed manhacks would be fine too; it was cool that they had this ability.

If it is an Overwatch unit, have them as a group of four wielding three AR2's and one guy as a leader with either an AR2 with energy core or shotgun, and perhaps a specialist with the mounted Combine MG's we find (This could be another weapon in the game, or make it so it has some sort of suit attachment so Gordon cannot use it on his suit).

The scout units could be a 'grouped' unit of three scouts, two with shotguns and one with another weapon, such as the MP7, and be allowed to use the grenade launcher for it.

As for the Elites, close to the Citadel, they could be the "leader" for the other three Overwatch guys. Away from the Citadels, they could form their own "surgical" unit, wielding AR2's w/ energy cores, and another guy with something like the Combine pulse MG.



In any event, I was inspired to say this because we've been ragging on the fairly pathetic state of the Overwatch forces on the forum and in the steam chat. This is just an idea I threw out there to see what other people thought. I know not everyone's going to go for it, as HL2 is a more arcade shooter than not, but I figured it would be cool to have a method to the madness.

 

[SamuraiKenji]

theres one issue for me
for a highly advanced and uber smart race.......there SO ****ING STUPID!

 

[LandStander]

They do perform some tactical abilities in Ep2.
And just so you PC guys know, when the guys update your models for HL2 to the Ep2 versions the shotgun wielding overwatch soldiers turn into scouts.

 

[Cheomesh]

They do perform some tactical abilities in Ep2.
And just so you PC guys know, when the guys update your models for HL2 to the Ep2 versions the shotgun wielding overwatch soldiers turn into scouts.

Really? Never saw them doing many things that are "tactical".

 

[Planetary]

I've never seen an elite with anything other then the pulse rifle. Actually I've never seen them throw grenades, just energy balls.

 

[kupocake]

Overwatch Scout: We first saw these in Episode 2, near the downed Advisor's barn. They look similarly to the Overwatch soldiers but as far as I recall only wield a shotgun. They have orange goggles, and an orange 'elite' symbol on their shoulder. I'm assuming they're some sort of scout unit, which would explain why we've never seen them before (We're out of Combine controlled lands now).

Since these have been retroactively added to HL2 and Ep1, I don't think of them as new units... From a design perspective, they've obviously been added in for ease of identification (a principal that Valve wanted to work into the player classes of TF2). However, if you want an in-universe explanation, perhaps they are Soldiers who showed a greater tendency towards aggression at the expense of their own health, since they care more about the fact that you are in range than the fact that they must also be in range of you.

Any else think that the Elites we saw at the White Forest Inn were strangely Pink? I wonder if that has been added into the earlier games too. It would make sense if Valve were planning to tweak their visibility for snowy Episode Three.

edit: Overwatch soldiers apparently have two functions that you've not listed: They can use mounted sniper rifles, and pilot Helicopters without being awarded distinct uniforms.

The Transhuman Combine project seems to be a rather rigid hierarchy of 'higher loyalty = better guns and better augmentation'. In that context, I wonder whether the planned Assassins would have worked as well... Though a few more rungs on the ladder wouldn't have hurt. My favorite dropped concept has to be the 'Combine Guard', the reasonably armored, trench-coated Combine that would have worked well as a middle ground between CP and Soldier. They could have shown up as tougher, smarter Metrocop leaders and as the keepers of Nova Prospekt (re-textured), alongside the fully militarized Soldiers who seem a little too tough for the interrogation jobs and general guard work of Nova Prospekt.

 

[Acepilotf14]

None of those soldiers are combine, Inkheart, simply humans implanted with many things to become literal killing machines, depending on their duty. It's like in the Warhammer 40k universe= if the entirety of the combine war machine were all assaulting earth, [Or the Imperium in WH40k], No one would be able to resist. They would be completely overwhelemed. But, such a powerful empire would span thousands of light years for their empire, and they would have to spread their forces thin, and the only way to keep up their troops is to rectuit and biogenetically enhance the local species, which also means that they will be able to use the local weaponry. The AR2 is likely a human-made weapon, enhanced by Combine science, altered to shoot Dark Matter bullets and be able to launch a combine ball.

btw HL2 is not an arcade shooter, it's an adventure game.

 

[kupocake]

The AR2 is likely a human-made weapon, enhanced by Combine science, altered to shoot Dark Matter bullets and be able to launch a combine ball.

I wonder if even the Dark-Matter balls are Combine technology, now that we've seen them in Portal...

 

[Acepilotf14]

THEY ARE SIMPLY THERE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE UP A WHOLE NEW MODEL. IT IS THERE BECAUSE VALVE IS LAZY. GOT IT?

Combine-Aperture have no relations. no one every said those WERE dark matter balls.
In fact, they were simply ENERGY balls.
P.S. They didn't seem pink to me.

 

[Cheomesh]

Since these have been retroactively added to HL2 and Ep1, I don't think of them as new units... From a design perspective, they've obviously been added in for ease of identification (a principal that Valve wanted to work into the player classes of TF2). However, if you want an in-universe explanation, perhaps they are Soldiers who showed a greater tendency towards aggression at the expense of their own health, since they care more about the fact that you are in range than the fact that they must also be in range of you.

Any else think that the Elites we saw at the White Forest Inn were strangely Pink? I wonder if that has been added into the earlier games too. It would make sense if Valve were planning to tweak their visibility for snowy Episode Three.

edit: Overwatch soldiers apparently have two functions that you've not listed: They can use mounted sniper rifles, and pilot Helicopters without being awarded distinct uniforms.

The Transhuman Combine project seems to be a rather rigid hierarchy of 'higher loyalty = better guns and better augmentation'. In that context, I wonder whether the planned Assassins would have worked as well... Though a few more rungs on the ladder wouldn't have hurt. My favorite dropped concept has to be the 'Combine Guard', the reasonably armored, trench-coated Combine that would have worked well as a middle ground between CP and Soldier. They could have shown up as tougher, smarter Metrocop leaders and as the keepers of Nova Prospekt (re-textured), alongside the fully militarized Soldiers who seem a little too tough for the interrogation jobs and general guard work of Nova Prospekt.

Damn, pink? :|

 

[kupocake]

THEY ARE SIMPLY THERE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE UP A WHOLE NEW MODEL. IT IS THERE BECAUSE VALVE IS LAZY. GOT IT?

Combine-Aperture have no relations. no one every said those WERE dark matter balls.
In fact, they were simply ENERGY balls.

Jesus on a stick up your arse, you anger easily don't you?

Once the red haze has faded from your eyes, what I'm suggesting is that Aperture invented the balls, the Combine incorporated them into their own designs. This is the opposite to what people usually suggest ('OMG, APERTURE USE COMBINE TECHNOLOGY, THEY MUST BE COMBINE!'), and is perfectly in keeping with the Combine's assimilation of Earth-bound technology.

Damn, pink? :|

I hope it was my eyes playing tricks on me, or my outdated graphics card, but they seemed to have a pink tinge to them. I have nothing against pink, but I'd prefer Valve to leave the fruit pastel colours to the Bungie dev team.

 

[Acepilotf14]

No.
4char

Anyway, The Combine never found Aperture Science, or they would have the ASHPD.

 

[kupocake]

Anyway, The Combine never found Aperture Science, or they would have the ASHPD.

All that proves for certain is that they never found Chell, since she was the last person known to be in possession of any working example of the weapon. And the Energy ball doesn't even have to be an Aperture invention, it could be obtainable from other places on earth. In the 'fog of war' that surrounds all the blanks in the Half-Life story, there could be a perfectly sane conclusion that you apparently believe you have the authority to dismiss without consideration. If you were Samon, i'd consider it amusing and quirky. You are not Samon.

 

[Cheomesh]

I say we go back to my subject.

 

[LandStander]

Really? Never saw them doing many things that are "tactical".

One of the commentary nodes displays a soldier's "pathfinding" abilities. Discovering alternate routes and ways of flanking Gordon. I think this is from Ep 1 though, right before the combine use the door breach tactic for the first time.

 

[Planetary]

edit: Overwatch soldiers apparently have two functions that you've not listed: They can use mounted sniper rifles, and pilot Helicopters without being awarded distinct uniforms.

Don't forget the suppression device, at the Nexus. And of course the vortigaunt torture at Nova Prospekt. Quite the multi-purpose force.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Really? Never saw them doing many things that are "tactical".

In ep2, the barn you talked about first:
The scouts will go in to use their shotguns at point blank, the soldiers in the house across the "yard" will provide suppressing fire while the scouts try to flank you.

 

[Cheomesh]

In ep2, the barn you talked about first:
The scouts will go in to use their shotguns at point blank, the soldiers in the house across the "yard" will provide suppressing fire while the scouts try to flank you.

Or, they're each individually engaging at the longest range they're designed to.

 

[Tagaziel]

Dudes, I'll post an editorial on this matter tonight or tomorrow evening, stay tuned.

A propos the Pulse Rifle:

http://www.halflife2.net/wiki/index.php/Overwatch_Standard_Issue_Pulse_Rifle

Most of the article written by me. The AR2 is derived from the FN Minimi (rear sights, buttstock and general shape of the "human" portion of the gun).

 

[mastapenguin]

A couple notes on the Shotgun wielding soldiers.

I'm pretty sure the new model for shotty soldiers is a pure gameplay consideration. In the console version, the new model was applied retroactively, so that most Combine encounters had at least one red guy. Hell, even the shotty guys in Nova Prospekt had altered goggles so that they could be identified easily.

Why so careful? Well, if you listen to the commentary, Valve appears to be using Gabe's dear old Grandma as the baseline of difficulty. Those shotty soldiers can mess you up if you let them get close, and since their AI tells them to get close, they are, in fact, pretty dangerous. Thus, Valve decided to make them visible from a distance, so that you can identify and take them out first, and deal with the somewhat less dangerous AR2 and SMG wielding soldiers at your leisure.


And a couple comments on the AI.

I saw an article somewhere about AI in video games. It was using Halo for the majority of its examples, but there were some interesting points. The major one is this: If you increase the health of enemies, Playtesters will believe the enemies have gotten smarter. This may be partially explained by the fact that they last longer to demonstrate how smart they are, but it doesn't really "account" for how much the various playtesters believe the AI is improved.

 

[ríomhaire]

Thus why so many people think that the HL1 soldiers are more intelligent than the HL2 soldiers, even though the HL2 ones are much less prone to planting a grenade on their left shoe (I'm amazed that Valve never fixed that bug, hilarous as it is).

 

[Doombringer]

My question is... what did the Combine use for Overwatch footsoldiers before they came to Earth?

 

[Zombine]

My question is... what did the Combine use for Overwatch footsoldiers before they came to Earth?

Maybe they conquered other species without war. They learned about it first time they came onto earth, because humans couldn't solve problems without war. They still can't.

 

[LandStander]

Or, they're each individually engaging at the longest range they're designed to.

They do engage tactically. The problem being is that there isn't much in the way of hierarchical structure. Listen to the commentary. The developers talk about the fight at the White Forest Inn and how the enemies will react to your actions, but they don't exactly work in teams perse.

 

[Narvi]

My question is... what did the Combine use for Overwatch footsoldiers before they came to Earth?

For the Overwatch role? Hunters. Or combat drones.

Overwatch are useful because they can do lots of things, but there really isn't one thing that they can do exclusively.

 

[Cheomesh]

A couple notes on the Shotgun wielding soldiers.

I'm pretty sure the new model for shotty soldiers is a pure gameplay consideration. In the console version, the new model was applied retroactively, so that most Combine encounters had at least one red guy. Hell, even the shotty guys in Nova Prospekt had altered goggles so that they could be identified easily.

Why so careful? Well, if you listen to the commentary, Valve appears to be using Gabe's dear old Grandma as the baseline of difficulty. Those shotty soldiers can mess you up if you let them get close, and since their AI tells them to get close, they are, in fact, pretty dangerous. Thus, Valve decided to make them visible from a distance, so that you can identify and take them out first, and deal with the somewhat less dangerous AR2 and SMG wielding soldiers at your leisure.


And a couple comments on the AI.

I saw an article somewhere about AI in video games. It was using Halo for the majority of its examples, but there were some interesting points. The major one is this: If you increase the health of enemies, Playtesters will believe the enemies have gotten smarter. This may be partially explained by the fact that they last longer to demonstrate how smart they are, but it doesn't really "account" for how much the various playtesters believe the AI is improved.

Suddenly, it seems a lot less cool.

 

[FrostXian]

My question is... what did the Combine use for Overwatch footsoldiers before they came to Earth?

The native species of that planet. They seem to use the creatures that inhabit the planet against themselves. Humans against humans, some other alien would also encounter modified members of their own race as foot soilders.
It's good because they can find a whole lot of replacement reserves and it also lets out a certain fear to the hearts of the enemy.