Pakistani F-16's beat RAF Eurofighter Typhoons?

Uriel

Uriel

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Pakistani pilots flying modernized versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF's brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon superfighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.
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Linky

Seems kinda fishy and I certainly hope it's not true. Although the F-16 has been an absolute workhorse, especially for the US and Israel, I find it hard to believe it defeated a 4.5 generation fighter jet, even if the F-16 was a block 50.
 
I can only imagine the F-16 pilots are much more experienced and skilled using the F-16 than the RAF pilots are of using the new plane. Not that it matters, the F-22 and F-35 outclass pretty much everything.
 
When the F-22 works and if the F-35 ever comes out into production.....
Lockheed got too comfy with their contract.
 
Without knowing the rules of the excercise in question the results mean nothing. At Red Air a few years back F/A-18 Super Hornets managed to down F-22s and the F/A-18 series is just about the most worthless piece of junk flown in the west.

But still, Eurofigher is a huge waste of money and in most situations inferior to the latest versions of the aircraft it was specifically designed to kill, the Sukhoi Flanker. It is notable that the Indian Air Force is looking at the Eurofighter to form the "lo" element of thier "hi-lo" mix, complimenting Su-30s. Though at least it managed to beat out the MiG-35.

Its also worth noting that British Typhoons carry the less than stellar ASRAAM, which while faster than the latest Sidewinders has inferior manuverability and at dogfight ranges is heavily outclassed by the German IRIS-T, with its thrust vectoring an excellent seeker. Its pretty good at BVR though, as it has the American AMRAAM at the moment, to be replaced by the MBDA Meteor in a few years.
 
Bob_Marley said:
Without knowing the rules of the excercise in question the results mean nothing. At Red Air a few years back F/A-18 Super Hornets managed to down F-22s and the F/A-18 series is just about the most worthless piece of junk flown in the west.
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Which is why I said it's fishy. Staging dogfights is oddly common but can serve different purposes (diplomatic, strategic, tactical, etc *when paired against another nation). And the British Military has been known to pull clever shit so it's difficult to say what exactly happened and why.
 
I'm no dog fighting expert but I believe there is an element of luck involved.
 
Q: Any particular reason for your success?

A: NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat. They are trained for BVR [Beyond Visual Range] engagements and their tactics are based on BVR engagements. These were close-in air combat exercises and we had the upper hand because close-in air combat is drilled into every PAF pilot and this is something we are very good at.
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Well, the PAF guy gave a reason right here. ^
 
British Pilots from what I'm told (and my resources are good) are very proficient at WVR (within-visual-range) combat, so I still feel like it was a ruse. Maybe not on the level of the Israeli pilots, but still damn good. Of course, military exercises are sometimes the worst way to convey how a situation may go down.
 
Ah, the F-16. The T-34 of the free world.

Maybe the Typhoon wasn't all it what they said it was, performance-wise, anyway.
 
Uriel said:
British Pilots from what I'm told (and my resources are good) are very proficient at WVR (within-visual-range) combat, so I still feel like it was a ruse. Maybe not on the level of the Israeli pilots, but still damn good. Of course, military exercises are sometimes the worst way to convey how a situation may go down.
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I lolled at that:

Q: I heard a rumour that the TuAF once gave PAF pilots the opportunity to fly with and against the Israelis in A. TuAF F-16s pretending to be Turkish pilots - even letting them sit in the Turkish-Israeli ACMI de-briefs?
No comments.
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Sad but true. I realized this after participating in an exercise.
 
Mr Stabby said:
I'm no dog fighting expert but I believe there is an element of luck involved.
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Nope, everything comes down to mathematical calculations and stratagems. Thats what RTS games have taught me.
 
Accept that the Pakistanis bested the RAF's latest technology, damn it!

Cuz dose bitches know how tae fly.
 
BVR combat is where it's at anyway. Who dogfights these days?
 
IF modern planes get into a dog fight something has gone horribly wrong. the F-22 can go supersonic without afterburners and can hit a target before the enemy has even picked them up on radar (if they do at all because the F-22 has stealth tech). By they time their missiles hit their targets the F-22's are already on their way home.

Still, every generation of new planes claims that dogfighting is over, and each generation finds themselves in dogfights. The Phantoms in Vietnam had this issue.
 
Uriel said:
Linky

Seems kinda fishy and I certainly hope it's not true. Although the F-16 has been an absolute workhorse, especially for the US and Israel, I find it hard to believe it defeated a 4.5 generation fighter jet, even if the F-16 was a block 50.
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I hope it is true. It's like a Y-Wing shooting down an X-Wing, it shouldn't happen but skill > gear
 
Manned jets and such are going to go the way of the dodo anyway. There's so many benefits of not slapping a squishy human inside that outweigh manned aircraft.

Wackity schmackity doo to all the possible future pilots including myself :(
 
Uriel said:
Manned jets and such are going to go the way of the dodo anyway. There's so many benefits of not slapping a squishy human inside that outweigh manned aircraft.

Wackity schmackity doo to all the possible future pilots including myself :(
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Despite whatever the USAF says, I think we'll be using manned fighters even in the 6th generation stage. Situational awareness, I think might be hampered with UAVs/UCAVs.
 
Uriel said:
Manned jets and such are going to go the way of the dodo anyway. There's so many benefits of not slapping a squishy human inside that outweigh manned aircraft.

Wackity schmackity doo to all the possible future pilots including myself :(
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This reminds me of the movie 'Stealth' with the AI fighter jet that becomes self aware.
 
Stylo said:
This reminds me of the movie 'Stealth' with the AI fighter jet that becomes self aware.
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Never saw it, was it good? It had Jamie Foxx in it so I decided not to see it because he's a ****
 
Uriel said:
Never saw it, was it good? It had Jamie Foxx in it so I decided not to see it because he's a ****
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It was terrible.

Maybe the Pakistani had superior numbers and just swarmed the RAF with seeking missiles?

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Ah, the F-16. The T-34 of the free world.

Maybe the Typhoon wasn't all it what they said it was, performance-wise, anyway.
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he's right just look at a pic of the two the Typhoon has more surface area making it a larger target and creates drag during high speed turns slowing it down in dog fights. whereas the f-16 is much smaller but may not fly as stable and is very agile
 
kdub70 said:
he's right just look at a pic of the two the Typhoon has more surface area making it a larger target and creates drag during high speed turns slowing it down in dog fights. whereas the f-16 is much smaller but may not fly as stable and is very agile
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It flies just fine in terms of stability.
 
Acepilotf14 said:
I can only imagine the F-16 pilots are much more experienced and skilled using the F-16 than the RAF pilots are of using the new plane. Not that it matters, the F-22 and F-35 outclass pretty much everything.
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I thought the purpose of the Eurofighter was for better menouvering and increased ECM and ECCM capabilities

and besides, do you honestly want to reveal the full potential of a new aircraft at a dodgy wargame? No, you want to reveal it when war breaks out, then they'll will be shitting bricks
 
Pakistani pilots flying modernized versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF's brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon superfighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.

according to a Pakistani officer.

Pakistani officer.

BIASED LIES.
 
15357 said:
Despite whatever the USAF says, I think we'll be using manned fighters even in the 6th generation stage. Situational awareness, I think might be hampered with UAVs/UCAVs.
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Oh silly numbers, in the future electronic brains would have relegated humans to cleaning the streets!

BTW I seriously believe this. There is nothing computers can't do better with the right setup and training, except work that's too cheap to bother automating, and art/creative disciplines like programming.
 
99.vikram said:
Oh silly numbers, in the future electronic brains would have relegated humans to cleaning the streets!

BTW I seriously believe this. There is nothing computers can't do better with the right setup and training, except work that's too cheap to bother automating, and art/creative disciplines like programming.
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Yeah, because coding thousands of lines that are basically the same algorithm but in different main clusters is a creative discipline that no automaton could do. :p

Another argument for manned fighters: what happens when your sattelites get shot down and you can't transmit orders to your robotic forces?


Besides, people are cheaper.
 
15357 said:
Another argument for manned fighters: what happens when your sattelites get shot down and you can't transmit orders to your robotic forces?


Besides, people are cheaper.
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UAV's are programmed to fallback to a default code if a signal is lost. And people are far FAR more expensive. Training, experience, basic pay for the pilot (and we'll throw the housing in there too), environmental systems no longer require the same amount of maintenance, etc etc.

Is your pilot gonna talk if captured? A UAV won't.

UAV's are the future and for a great reason.
 
Uriel said:
UAV's are programmed to fallback to a default code if a signal is lost. And people are far FAR more expensive. Training, experience, basic pay for the pilot (and we'll throw the housing in there too), environmental systems no longer require the same amount of maintenance, etc etc.

Is your pilot gonna talk if captured? A UAV won't.

UAV's are the future and for a great reason.
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Well, I was talking about the anything that vikram mentioned. I mean, sure, pilots are gonna be extremely expensive; they always have been. But what about infantry? Yes, I know that the modern infantryman is and must be an expert in his field of work much like a doctor would be an expert in medicine. But an autonomous android is still going to be prohibitively expensive in comparison for the forseeable future, not to mention that they haven't been developed yet.

But back on the subject of UAVs: So what does happen when they fall back to a default code? Can they still bomb their targets or do they just circle around the area waiting for new input?

There's something unsettling about the advent of UCAVs or armed drones. I can't explain it, but I rather see people put in harm's way rather than have a bot, fully autonomous or otherwise, drop ordnance upon living human beings with the operator sitting in a chair and drinking tea halfway across the globe.
 
15357 said:
Well, I was talking about the anything that vikram mentioned. I mean, sure, pilots are gonna be extremely expensive; they always have been. But what about infantry? Yes, I know that the modern infantryman is and must be an expert in his field of work much like a doctor would be an expert in medicine. But an autonomous android is still going to be prohibitively expensive in comparison for the forseeable future, not to mention that they haven't been developed yet.

But back on the subject of UAVs: So what does happen when they fall back to a default code? Can they still bomb their targets or do they just circle around the area waiting for new input?

There's something unsettling about the advent of UCAVs or armed drones. I can't explain it, but I rather see people put in harm's way rather than have a bot, fully autonomous or otherwise, drop ordnance upon living human beings with the operator sitting in a chair and drinking tea halfway across the globe.
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I think, as a matter of fact, that UAVs are vastly superior for ground support (Predator et. al. anybody?) and stealth craft (did you really think the SR-71 had no successor?). But for air superiority, you can't beat the reactions, independence, and intuition of a human in the cockpit. Machines can't, for the foreseeable future, compete with the critical thinking of even a moderately experienced pilot. As numbers said, what happens when the satellites and the chips are down? I'd sure as shit rather there be an F22 with a pilot than a UAV with double the tech.
 
No guys, they're not called UAVs anymore. They're RPVs. So says the military.
Because they DO have a pilot. Just somewhere else.
 
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