Parents hide childs gender for 5 years

[mechanicallizard]

It's a boy! And he's five. Beck Laxton, 46, and partner Kieran Cooper, 44, have spent half the decade concealing the gender of their son, Sasha.

"I wanted to avoid all that stereotyping," Laxton said in an interview with the Cambridge News. "Stereotypes seem fundamentally stupid. Why would you want to slot people into boxes?"

...

Sasha dresses in clothes he likes -- be it a hand-me-downs from his sister or his brother. The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts. In one photo, sent to friends and family, Sasha's dressed in a shiny pink girl's swimsuit. "Children like sparkly things," says Beck. "And if someone thought Sasha was a girl because he was wearing a pink swimming costume, then what effect would that have? "

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/co...childs-gender-five-years-birth-180300388.html


I feel sorry for this kid. ****ing stupid parents

 

[Stigmata]

"Children like sparkly things," says Beck. "And if someone thought Sasha was a girl because he was wearing a pink swimming costume, then what effect would that have?"

This is so stupid... the question answers itself. Also, swimming costume? I literally don't even.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

"Masculine" shirts are denied but "shiny pink girls swimsuit" is encouraged.

I think 'gender neutral' was clearly NOT the goal here by these parents. If so he'd have on T SHIRTS AND JEANS or similar things which is unisex clothing. It's clear these parents are encouraging him to be feminine. They gave him a girl's name and dress him in girl's clothes. This is not free choice and wrong to force a child to be so confused.

 

[ríomhaire]

They gave him a girl's name

Sasha is a man's name. It's short for Alexander.

 

[Bad^Hat]

"Masculine" shirts are denied but "shiny pink girls swimsuit" is encouraged.

I think 'gender neutral' was clearly NOT the goal here by these parents. If so he'd have on T SHIRTS AND JEANS or similar things which is unisex clothing. It's clear these parents are encouraging him to be feminine. They gave him a girl's name and dress him in girl's clothes. This is not free choice and wrong to force a child to be so confused.

I agree with you except you're kind of missing the point by calling them "GIRL CLOTHES." But then so are the parents by avoiding "masculine" things, so.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I agree with you except you're kind of missing the point by calling them "GIRL CLOTHES." But then so are the parents by avoiding "masculine" things, so.

Pink shiny swimsuits ARE girl clothes. Something neutral is jeans and a Tshirt (only thing I can think of right now but there are other neutral examples as well)

Sasha is a man's name. It's short for Alexander.

Not sure if serious...

EDIT: Confusion lies with location:

In other countries, it is given predominantly to females. In the United States the name is almost exclusively used for girls, at number 369 in the ranking of U.S. baby names, although it didn't gain popularity until the 1970s.

Here in the US naming a child Sasha is like naming them Tiffany or Amanda. It's a women's name exclusively.

 

[Stigmata]

I personally have known 3 guys named Sasha roughly around my age during high school. It's not that uncommon, there's just not many unisex names in comparison to gendered ones.

 

[mechanicallizard]

This is not free choice and wrong to force a child to be so confused.

This. Imagine the guy 10 years from now.

 

[Yuri]

Also, swimming costume? I literally don't even.

That's actually pretty normal in the UK, to say costume.

They gave him a girl's name

And for the record, Sasha is not really that uncommon as a boy's name.

 

[Raziaar]

Way to eschew traditional gender roles, pirates.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

I love the parent's warped concept that bringing their child up as a boy or girl is almost an infringement upon the child's choices on what it is able to like. The reason you choose clothes for your child is mostly because it's too [strike]stupid[/strike] young to know what to buy or put on, I would have probably worn curtains to nursery if my parents hadn't dressed me. I wonder if the mother says no to the pink sequin swimming costume when they go to school on a winters morning or she lets little Sasha make his own decisions because it's important for his development or some other pseudo psychology hokum.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Pink shiny swimsuits ARE girl clothes. Something neutral is jeans and a Tshirt (only thing I can think of right now but there are other neutral examples as well)

As dictated by society. I'm not disagreeing with you that it's probably not that healthy for the kid, nor am I saying we should all be walking around in frilly dresses, I'm just saying that the thrust of what they were going for was that they didn't want their son to be subject to culturally prescribed gender roles. They just... kind of failed at it.

Edit: To illustrate my point (sort of), here's a childhood portrait of ****ing Roosevelt.

 

[Raziaar]

No wonder he was crippled... emotionally!

 

[dfc05]

Can't tell from the article if he is picking out whatever he wants, or if they are making him wear both equally? Also, can't tell the point of hiding his gender from others -- the fact that he's a boy is a fact that they should just get over. If they let him choose to dress in an assortment of clothes, fine. Parading him around as "the infant" and making other people guess his gender is just weird, like they're not only against gender inequality (social/cultural) but the fact that gender exists at all? It should be "He's a boy but he can wear whatever he likes," not "Hey folks let me send you a picture of 'the infant' in some pants and a shirt, and here we have it in a pink tutu. Now guess if it's a boy or a girl, hahaha!"

 

[Krynn72]

Its weird, and the way they went about it was certainly not right, but I dont think the sentiment is necessarily flawed. They wanted their child to grow up as whoever they wanted to be, rather than being lead down the "appropriate path" as determined by his genitalia. Its not that they wanted him to grow up neutral, its that they wanted him to grow up as whatever he would naturally be inclined to grow up as without as much outside influence as most of us received. Of course, they threw out that whole philosophy when they allowed glittery pink bikinis but banned skull t-shirts.

Oh, and the notion that in order "To have a sense of self and personal identity" and grow up without psychological problems you need to know whether to classify yourself as a dude or a chick is stupid. The dick in your pants doesn't give you any sense of who you are as a person, so the act of classifying yourself based on its existence is so insignificant as a feature of your personality as to be essentially irrelevant.

 

[Maestro]

So long as gender neutrality ends in time for first grade it's probably fine. The first day Sasha comes in wearing a pink tutu is the day he will be brutally mocked by his peers for the rest of elementary school.

 

[dfc05]

I just realized, sometimes I have a hard time telling whether some grown folks are dudes are ladies (and it doesn't matter to me which they are or whether I can tell), so I guess it's ok if people simply don't know. Still, it's pretty extreme to deliberately refuse to acknowledge it -- I can imagine things getting really stupid if they want to refer to him using a pronoun instead of "Sasha" or "this infant-child-thing we have" around someone who doesn't know. What would they call him? "It"? "They"? "Shuh-he"? Maybe the first time they meet, they introduce him as "he", then the next time they call him "she", whichever one seems opposite to the type of clothes being worn, for maximum [strike]confusion[/strike] "gender neutrality"?

 

[Bad^Hat]

Oh, and the notion that in order "To have a sense of self and personal identity" and grow up without psychological problems you need to know whether to classify yourself as a dude or a chick is stupid. The dick in your pants doesn't give you any sense of who you are as a person, so the act of classifying yourself based on its existence is so insignificant as a feature of your personality as to be essentially irrelevant.

Well I mean, there's a bit more to gender distinctions than just what's in your pants, biologically speaking. And no, I don't mean tits.

But yeah I'm in favour of cultural/societal norms becoming more androgynous. This is clearly a bad example, but I can't really think of a better one, except that people just sort of... be less hung up about it, in general. I guess it's all about incremental steps.

 

[KiplingsCat]

Of course, they threw out that whole philosophy when they allowed glittery pink bikinis but banned skull t-shirts.

Yes this. There's no reason for a skull t-shirt to be seen as so masculine. In fact, I'd say a parent who wouldn't let their daughter wear that t-shirt because it wasn't girly enough was being way too uptight. So why not let your son-daughter-thing wear it? Similarly, there's no reason for a pink sparkly thing to be exclusive to little girls (ask David Bowie)...we see it that way because society and barbie dolls have taught us to see it that way.

On an interesting side note, my grown-up female cousin's favourite decorative motif is glittery pink skulls.

Another side note: When I was a baby/toddler my mother used to dress me in cast-off blue dungarees from a friend whose kid had outgrown them. Any time she was walking with me, old ladies would stop and coo over her "adorable little boy". She used not bother correcting them and sometimes would even respond to their questions (How old is he? etc) using male pronouns rather than go to the effort of explaining. I'm fine *nervous twitch* no really I'm fine.

 

[kineaesth]

Androgyny is hot. Do you have skype?

 

[Dandan]

Sasha will probably become the next Lady Gaga

...just sayin'

 

[Maestro]

I gotta say, the cross-dressing stunt was a pretty great parody of the rest of the VMA's bullshit. I loved Katy Perry's face when she realized she had been outdone in eccentricity yet again.

 

[Kadayi]

I do find the whole pink/blue this kind of hilarious tbh. However one look at at the photo of the kid in question and it's hardly a shock that 'it's a boy' .

 

[Bad^Hat]

Oh man how did I forget about this. :3

 

[Krynn72]

'What about dressing up in a tutu and being a fairy? Do you remember when you did that for Christmas and I sent it on the Christmas cards because you looked so beautiful?' asks Miss Laxton.
A smiling Sasha replies ‘Yeah.’

Spoiler

 

[The Monkey]

There is nothing wrong in letting your child pick from the whole spectrum of boy-girl clothing, in fact I think it should encouraged in order destroy ridiculous gender stereotypes that do nothing but limit creativity, boldness and equality. However, the fact that they allowed him to dress in extremely "girly" and not extremely "boyish" clothes is a bit strange...

 

[unozero]

Parents should lose custody.

 

[MJ12]

However, the fact that they allowed him to dress in extremely "girly" and not extremely "boyish" clothes is a bit strange...

And by "a bit strange" you mean "****ing bullshit".

 

[CptStern]

Sasha dresses in clothes he likes -- be it a hand-me-downs from his sister or his brother. The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts. In one photo, sent to friends and family, Sasha's dressed in a shiny pink girl's swimsuit. "Children like sparkly things," says Beck. "And if someone thought Sasha was a girl because he was wearing a pink swimming costume, then what effect would that have? "

he has a point; kids dont assign gender to clothing at that age. adults do*



* disclaimer: this post is neither supporting nor condemning the OP's pov on hiding gender

 

[Eejit]

Ain't got nothing on Frank Cauldhame.

 

[The Monkey]

And by "a bit strange" you mean "****ing bullshit".

True enough. But I don't see how what they did is nearly as bad as some people in this thread seem to think. What they did pales in comparison to what is common practice in a lot of families, such as spanking and applying too much pressure to succeed in school, to name a few.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

he has a point; kids dont assign gender to clothing at that age. adults do*



* disclaimer: this post is neither supporting nor condemning the OP's pov on hiding gender

I disagree. Maybe 4 or 5 year olds don't or rather aren't able to understand assigning gender roles to clothing. Kids aged say 8 and up definately can understand the concept, develop those feelings on their own and it's not solely because of adult influence.

True enough. But I don't see how what they did is nearly as bad as some people in this thread seem to think. What they did pales in comparison to what is common practice in a lot of families, such as spanking and applying too much pressure to succeed in school, to name a few.

Spanking is not a strange nor abusive practice. Beatings are. Spanking is an entirely different subject. Sometimes kids learn effectively from a quick smack or whoopin. To say that's worse than forcing your kid to be androgynous is way off base.

 

[CptStern]

I disagree. Maybe 4 or 5 year olds don't or rather aren't able to understand assigning gender roles to clothing. Kids aged say 8 and up definately can understand the concept, develop those feelings on their own and it's not solely because of adult influence.

but we're not talking about 8 year olds. the kid is 5

Spanking is not a strange nor abusive practice. Beatings are. Spanking is an entirely different subject. Sometimes kids learn effectively from a quick smack or whoopin. To say that's worse than forcing your kid to be androgynous is way off base.

I/science disagrees with you. all it teaches is to fear the spanking not why they were spanked

http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/8/761

it's the lazy way of parenting

 

[CptStern]

I disagree. Maybe 4 or 5 year olds don't or rather aren't able to understand assigning gender roles to clothing. Kids aged say 8 and up definately can understand the concept, develop those feelings on their own and it's not solely because of adult influence.

but we're not talking about 8 year olds. the kid is 5

Spanking is not a strange nor abusive practice. Beatings are. Spanking is an entirely different subject. Sometimes kids learn effectively from a quick smack or whoopin. To say that's worse than forcing your kid to be androgynous is way off base.

I/science disagrees with you. all it teaches is to fear the spanking not why they were spanked

http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/8/761

it's the lazy way of parenting

 

[Yuri]

So it seems like the general consensus of the thread is,

The concept of a gender-neutral upbringing is actually a constructive idea.

But these parents are not doing that at all, but instead accomplishing the same gender bias in the opposite way from the societal norm.

...right?

I mean, wow, nice discussion HL2.net, for real


To expand upon that, though: I do want to mention that I think what these parents are doing to their kid is actually more damaging than the existing gender constructs that most parents adhere to, if only because of the way they are approaching it. It really does seem like their primary concern is the attention they are getting for themselves. If they were genuine about their goal to a gender-neutral upbringing, they probably wouldn't have a blog about it and revel in all this media attention. They also wouldn't encourage pink shiny bathing suits and forbid skull shirts, as mentioned previously. It's like raising an experiment, not a kid.

 

[Maestro]

So it seems like the general consensus of the thread is,

The concept of a gender-neutral upbringing is actually a constructive idea.

But these parents are not doing that at all, but instead accomplishing the same gender bias in the opposite way from the societal norm.

...right?

I mean, wow, nice discussion HL2.net, for real


To expand upon that, though: I do want to mention that I think what these parents are doing to their kid is actually more damaging than the existing gender constructs that most parents adhere to, if only because of the way they are approaching it. It really does seem like their primary concern is the attention they are getting for themselves. If they were genuine about their goal to a gender-neutral upbringing, they probably wouldn't have a blog about it and revel in all this media attention. They also wouldn't encourage pink shiny bathing suits and forbid skull shirts, as mentioned previously. It's like raising an experiment, not a kid.

I think it will crash and burn soon, but 3 pages is a record! Also, yeah, these people are like those shitty TLC reality shows: harmful and bullshitty in order to achieve attention.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I/science disagrees with you. all it teaches is to fear the spanking not why they were spanked

http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/8/761

it's the lazy way of parenting

They associate their bad act with a negative experience. It's not the spanking itself. Spanking is very effective at being the negative experience is all. I wouldn't call that lazy, I'd call it efficient.

He who spares the rod spoils the child.


Works for my family and everyone else I know. My uncle has some adopted kids that they refuse to touch. They're little bastards and need a good spanking because they'll just run wild and tear your house apart without caring about any 'time outs' they get from it.

 

[CptStern]

They associate their bad act with a negative experience.

ya: "if I misbehave I will be spanked" not "misbehaving is wrong because ..."

you're just repeating what you said earlier. it's not effective way of teaching kids that their actions have reprecussions other than the threat of violence

It's not the spanking itself. Spanking is very effective at being the negative experience is all. I wouldn't call that lazy, I'd call it efficient.

no it's not at all effective. if you bothered to read the link I posted you'd see it says the ONLY area they found that worked was immediate compliance; probably out of fear of getting another beating. you can think what ever it is you like but there is clear evidence that spanking leads to anti-social behaviour in children

He who spares the rod spoils the child.

lol that's retarded and idiotic throwback to yesteryear when we didnt know any better. I have never seen an educator, or healthcare provider advocating spanking as a means of discipling a child

Works for my family and everyone else I know.

oh that must means it's true then. but wait how would you know it works better than the no spanking method if by your own admission everyone you know uses spanking as a means of discipline?

My uncle has some adopted kids that they refuse to touch. They're little bastards and need a good spanking because they'll just run wild and tear your house apart without caring about any 'time outs' they get from it.

how convienet that the only family you do know that doesnt use spanking are little bastards. it has nothing to do with ineffective parenting or their troubled past. it's the no spanking that makes them little bastards

hey I've never spanked my kids and my kids are far better behaved then the mexican kids down the street who spank their kids. in fact those same kids challenge adults all the time because they know that only their parents will beat them. they obviously learned their lesson.

anyways, from experience I can say that it would be much easier to beat my kid into submission than to take the time to make sure they learn that what they're doing is not ok. also spanking is a really good way of teaching kids that the best way to solve a problem is to use vioklence. I mean it's literally beat in to you from a young age

 

[Yuri]

I think it will crash and burn soon, but 3 pages is a record! Also, yeah, these people are like those shitty TLC reality shows: harmful and bullshitty in order to achieve attention.

high-five for calling it, bud

apparently this thread is now about spanking and how many times stern can click the quote button.

stern is just jealous that he's not spanked often enough

 

[CptStern]

ah Yuri you make other trolls envious with your skillful trolling ability. you're really good at baiting people. one might say you're a master baiter