Parents hide childs gender for 5 years

[RakuraiTenjin]

ya: "if I misbehave I will be spanked" not "misbehaving is wrong because ..."

you're just repeating what you said earlier. it's not effective way of teaching kids that their actions have reprecussions other than the threat of violence



no it's not at all effective. if you bothered to read the link I posted you'd see it says the ONLY area they found that worked was immediate compliance; probably out of fear of getting another beating. you can think what ever it is you like but there is clear evidence that spanking leads to anti-social behaviour in children



lol that's retarded and idiotic throwback to yesteryear when we didnt know any better. I have never seen an educator, or healthcare provider advocating spanking as a means of discipling a child




oh that must means it's true then. but wait how would you know it works better than the no spanking method if by your own admission everyone you know uses spanking as a means of discipline?



how convienet that the only family you do know that doesnt use spanking are little bastards. it has nothing to do with ineffective parenting or their troubled past. it's the no spanking that makes them little bastards

hey I've never spanked my kids and my kids are far better behaved then the mexican kids down the street who spank their kids. in fact those same kids challenge adults all the time because they know that only their parents will beat them. they obviously learned their lesson.

anyways, from experience I can say that it would be much easier to beat my kid into submission than to take the time to make sure they learn that what they're doing is not ok. also spanking is a really good way of teaching kids that the best way to solve a problem is to use vioklence. I mean it's literally beat in to you from a young age

I checked out the link, there are numerous studies showing the opposite effect. It's common knowledge that associating a negative experience with an action causes you to avoid that action. Even animals learn this. "If I touch that fence it will shock me. I will not touch that fence"

Now obviously you have to parent as WELL, not just beat your kids senseless like the family on your street or something. It doesn't have to be one extreme to the other. What I call a spanking family vs what you're probably imagining I'm referring to are two completely different things.

Spanking and parenting hand in hand can lead to compliance and discipline. Beatings lead to anti social behavior. A parent who is unsure what the line is between those two things shouldn't even be a parent in the first place and should just give up their kid because they're too dumb to raise them.

You can raise fine kids without spanking. You can also raise fine kids with spanking. I think it's an important aspect to learn for society and family but to each their own. It only raises issue with me when the state tries to stop parents from reasonably raising their children as seen fit. Corporal punishment is not inherently bad- people who abuse the concept to issue beatings are bad.

 

[CptStern]

I checked out the link, there are numerous studies showing the opposite effect.

the opposite effect? that spanking doesnt lead to anti social behaviour over the long term in a majority of the people tested? I'd like to see this study that has the exact opposite result as the one adopted by the American pediatric Association? that ids with parents who use methods other than spanking will have kids with more cases of Anti social behaviour than those who were spanked?

It's common knowledge that associating a negative experience with an action causes you to avoid that action. Even animals learn this. "If I touch that fence it will shock me. I will not touch that fence"

ya humans are not deer. what you're describing is exactly what I said: that the only benefit was immediate compliance which is due to fear of spanking. not that what they did was wrong. that lesson is lost to something far more memorable like a sore ass

Now obviously you have to parent as WELL, not just beat your kids senseless like the family on your street or something. It doesn't have to be one extreme to the other. What I call a spanking family vs what you're probably imagining I'm referring to are two completely different things.

i have absolutely never seen a parent give a back hander and then follow it up with explaining positive and negative reinforcement and why what they did was wrong. spanking is almost always a product of the parent being frustrated and taking it out on the kid. why else would they resort to violence if it's not a product of nothing else working. unless it's a fear tactic which again doesnt teach the kid anything except fear the spanking

Spanking and parenting hand in hand can lead to compliance and discipline. Beatings lead to anti social behavior.

the study clearly says it's spanking not beating

A parent who is unsure what the line is between those two things shouldn't even be a parent in the first place and should just give up their kid because they're too dumb to raise them.

completely different ballgame here. we're talking about spanking not unlawful physical abuse

You can raise fine kids without spanking. You can also raise fine kids with spanking.

I wonder how many of those kids who were spanked as kids refuse to spank their own kids.. you know of at least one I hated my dad for most of my childhood and would never let him or anyone else touch my kids because I wouldnt want them to have my experience growing up. this is something most people want for their kids: to have what they didnt have. our parents generation didnt know any better. we do now. there's no need to use outmoded ways of thinking. schools have stopped doing it so have institutions; because it simply doesnt work

I think it's an important aspect to learn for society and family but to each their own. It only raises issue with me when the state tries to stop parents from reasonably raising their children as seen fit. Corporal punishment is not inherently bad- people who abuse the concept to issue beatings are bad.

I disagree. it's detrimental to the well being of children and does nothing to teach them right from wrong. without spanking you're forced into making them see the error of their ways because you dont have the choice of instilling it with your open hand. teaching through violence doesnt work. compliance is brought about as a means to avoid or stop the spanking.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

the opposite effect? that spanking doesnt lead to anti social behaviour over the long term in a majority of the people tested? I'd like to see this study that has the exact opposite result as the one adopted by the American pediatric Association? that ids with parents who use methods other than spanking will have kids with more cases of Anti social behaviour than those who were spanked?

I highly doubt spanking solely led to their anti social behavior. There are a lot of variables in that type of study.

ya humans are not deer. what you're describing is exactly what I said: that the only benefit was immediate compliance which is due to fear of spanking. not that what they did was wrong. that lesson is lost to something far more memorable like a sore ass

If a parent just spanks without explaining a thing that's bad parenting and makes no sense whatsoever.

i have absolutely never seen a parent give a back hander

That is not spanking, at all. If that's the definition you guys are using for spanking then it's not the same as what I'm talking about.

and then follow it up with explaining positive and negative reinforcement and why what they did was wrong. spanking is almost always a product of the parent being frustrated and taking it out on the kid. why else would they resort to violence if it's not a product of nothing else working. unless it's a fear tactic which again doesnt teach the kid anything except fear the spanking

Maybe in these broken homes you're talking about but that wasn't the case for me. I was spanked (not 'backhanded' or beaten or slapped or anything like that) and it was always followed up with a quick good lecture afterwards. Only when I was pretty bad though, I was a pretty decent little kid. To not do so is just stupidity. Perhaps I just had competent, good parents.

the study clearly says it's spanking not beating

What do you consider a spank vs a beating? Backhanding a kid in the face to me sounds like beating but you had grouped that with spanking. There's a line and (well at least I figured so) it's pretty clear.

I wonder how many of those kids who were spanked as kids refuse to spank their own kids.. you know of at least one I hated my dad for most of my childhood and would never let him or anyone else touch my kids because I wouldnt want them to have my experience growing up. this is something most people want for their kids: to have what they didnt have. our parents generation didnt know any better. we do now. there's no need to use outmoded ways of thinking. schools have stopped doing it so have institutions; because it simply doesnt work

I think from the sounds of it your dad crossed the line from spankings to beating and that's not good. If it made you hate your father something was very wrong. Like I said, I was spanked growing up, love my parents dearly and think they did a great job raising me. The bad decisions I've made over time I wouldn't attribute to them, if anything they stopped me from being worse.

I disagree. it's detrimental to the well being of children and does nothing to teach them right from wrong. without spanking you're forced into making them see the error of their ways because you dont have the choice of instilling it with your open hand. teaching through violence doesnt work. compliance is brought about as a means to avoid or stop the spanking .

A spank alone doesn't teach a child anything just like a time out doesn't teach them anything either. You have to talk to your children and teach them. Corporal punishment is a tool, not a teacher.

 

[CptStern]

I highly doubt spanking solely led to their anti social behavior. There are a lot of variables in that type of study.

"The analysis controlled for the level of ASB at the start of the study, family socioeconomic status, sex of the child, and the extent to which the home provided emotional support and cognitive stimulation."

If a parent just spanks without explaining a thing that's bad parenting and makes no sense whatsoever.

before or after the spanking?

That is not spanking, at all. If that's the definition you guys are using for spanking then it's not the same as what I'm talking about.

come on lets be honest here. it's not always a slap on the bum. I've seen kids slapped across the face as if it's common place. a slap isnt abuse unless there's undue force in the slap; enough to injure. a slap wont injure (physically) unless it's done fairly hard

you're of spanish origin. never seen the business end of your mom's zapatilla? or wooden spoon? or belt or slap on the face?

Maybe in these broken homes you're talking about but that wasn't the case for me. I was spanked (not 'backhanded' or beaten or slapped or anything like that) and it was always followed up with a quick good lecture afterwards. Only when I was pretty bad though, I was a pretty decent little kid. To not do so is just stupidity. Perhaps I just had competent, good parents.

see above. I know first hand about spanish temperment. it was absolutely never beating but I wont be naive enough to think it was a spank on the butt followed by a calm cool reasoned lecture on the merits of behaving. what you're describing sounds clinical and unemotional; not at all what usually leads up to a spanking. and you cant say that every single time you were spanked or whatever you call it that it was followed by a lecture; every single time. in my experience COMPLIANCE is the desired effect so that rarely means you have to take the extra step to explain the situation. sure it might be different in your experience but I dont think your experience is at all typical

What do you consider a spank vs a beating? Backhanding a kid in the face to me sounds like beating but you had grouped that with spanking. There's a line and (well at least I figured so) it's pretty clear.

the line is physical abuse. I can give you a slap without causing any damage besides your cheek momentarily turning red. I dont have to apply as much force as I would say with spanking an ass to get my point across

I think from the sounds of it your dad crossed the line from spankings to beating and that's not good.

nope. I understand that line and he never crossed it

If it made you hate your father something was very wrong.

It effects people differently. there is no atypical response to being spanked. kids deal with it differently. I hated my dad for other reasons as well but I did take it to the point where I fought back and he never hit me again

Like I said, I was spanked growing up, love my parents dearly and think they did a great job raising me.

ya, so did I. could they have done better for what was the norm at the time? probably not. can I do better? yes a hell of a lot better because we as a society have changed in even as little as 10 years. what was normal then isnt normal now

The bad decisions I've made over time I wouldn't attribute to them, if anything they stopped me from being worse.

I dont blame my parents for mistakes I've made. that's silly. I do think that given all we know now about parenting reverting to the old style of parenting is only doing half the job

 

[Maestro]

Oh great, here we go again with another Stern v. Someone Who Disagrees. Everyone grab some popcorn, this is gonna be a long one.

 

[Krynn72]

More like another Stern V. Someone Who is Wrong. I'm just happy Stern is on the right side this time.

 

[Maestro]

This whole charade does get old, though.