Parents sue school board over teaching Intelligent Design

[CptStern]

Court case may determine how evolution is taught in US


"In the town of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, 11 parents of children who already attend the nearby Dover High school or who will in future, together with the American Civil Liberties Union, are suing the Dover Area School District for voting in new rules that will encourage children to consider alternatives to evolution such as “intelligent design” (ID)."


"The parents claim the school board violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment by creating new teaching requirements at the end of 2004 that cast doubt on evolution, introduce students to ID and encourage them to read anti-evolutionary, pro-ID literature. The First Amendment prohibits teaching that is religiously motivated, or has the effect of advancing religion."



“If we lose this case, I suspect it will send a green light to many school districts across the country that it is okay to teach ID,” he says. “If we win, hopefully it will put a break on what we view as a religious concept.”


"It [the case] will hinge on whether ID is a respectable scientific theory, or a religious belief that masquerades as science to sidestep a 1987 Supreme Court ruling that outlawed the teaching of creationism in schools"



no judge could possibly rule that Intelligent Design is a "respectable" scientific theory .....could they? This is a landmark case and sets prescedent all over the US

 

[Tr0n]

ID is basically creationism? If so it doesn't belong in public schools.

 

[CptStern]

ID is basically creationism? If so it doesn't belong in public schools.

yes but because some "scholars" (biblical scholars of course) say it's science it could circumvent the usual safe guards that would usually get it banned in a public school

 

[No Limit]

yes but because some "scholars" (biblical scholars of course) say it's science it could circumvent the usual safe guards that would usually get it banned in a public school

I honestly don't know how you can consider faith science, I always considered the 2 the direct opposites.

 

[CptStern]

I honestly don't know how you can consider faith science, I always considered the 2 the direct opposites.

personally I dont think faith and science are even remotely related ..faith should remain at home or at church

 

[southernman17]

I believe faith and science are some how related.

 

[CptStern]

I believe faith and science are some how related.

how so? science relies on facts ..faith doesnt

 

[No Limit]

I believe faith and science are some how related.

Care to explain? Everything you posted on this board since you joined you haven't explained or you didn't have anything to back it up with. Please, enlighten me. :rolling:

 

[southernman17]

They're not intricately related but to a certain degree they are. I don't see how they are total opposites. But I'd rather not go into it now. I've been "warned" so I'll cool down a bit.

 

[Solaris]

So youre saying something but not willing to back it up?

 

[Absinthe]

The only way they could lose is if the judge is a partisan douche bag that has no idea what a science is and what does/doesn't belong in a public education.

If they're going to teach evolution and ID side by side, then I'm going to demand that they include my theory about the invisible pink unicorn in my room that birthed life through fertilizer from the bowels. If they don't accept this, I'll sue them.

 

[No Limit]

They're not intricately related but to a certain degree they are. I don't see how they are total opposites. But I'd rather not go into it now. I've been "warned" so I'll cool down a bit.

You need to cool down from the personal attacks you spew against me and other members. What you need to do is back up what you say with actual facts. Please, fill me in on how faith is science.

 

[Lemonking]

Personal attacks? according to you every Republican is a lying shitbag No Limit ,however I belive that all Religion crap should be seperated from schools.

 

[CptStern]

lemonking shut up please, let's not turn this into another of your "left-wing attacks on right-wingers" ..stay on topic this has nothing to do with No limit

 

[southernman17]

http://www.luc.edu/publications/loyolamag/fall2000/examined.htm
I found this article after solaris said I wouldn't back it up. Oh and by the way I don't believe in creationism even though I am a conservative. I even attend a Catholic high school and we were taught evolution. There was maybe a brief three minute lecture about how creationism could fit in and that was the end of that. We were thaught that God simply guided evoultion or something along those lines.

 

[Lemonking]

lemonking shut up please, let's not turn this into another of your "left-wing attacks on right-wingers" ..stay on topic this has nothing to do with No limit

you shut up



I responded to No Limits post and I put " " behind it was ment a joke :|

 

[CptStern]

http://www.luc.edu/publications/loyolamag/fall2000/examined.htm
I found this article after solaris said I wouldn't back it up. Oh and by the way I don't believe in creationism even though I am a conservative. I even attend a Catholic high school and we were taught evolution. There was maybe a brief three minute lecture about how creationism could fit in and that was the end of that. We were thaught that God simply guided evoultion or something along those lines.

but ..that university is run by the Jesuits ...of course they're going to support creationism

"Five Characteristics of a Jesuit Education:

# 3: Faith in God and the religious experience: Promoting well-formed and strongly held beliefs in one's faith tradition to deepen others' relationships with God

 

[CptStern]

you shut up



I responded to No Limits post and I put " " behind it was ment a joke :|

which would have been ok had this been the first time you've said that ..I'm willing to wager you've said the same thing at least a dozen times in the last week or so

 

[Lemonking]

um no, I got along with No Limit quite well actually lately

 

[CptStern]

anyways, back on topic

 

[southernman17]

The article had nothing to do with creationism being taught. It simpliy put forth where science and religion exisist in the context of the modern world.


Oh and your sources are frequently taken from liberal websites. But lets not go into that. I'd just thought I'd out it out there.

 

[Lemonking]

why isnt their a law that keeps all that crap away from schools?

 

[CptStern]

The article had nothing to do with creationism being taught. It simpliy put forth where science and religion exisist in the context of the modern world.


Oh and your sources are frequently taken from liberal websites. But lets not go into that. I'd just thought I'd out it out there.

you mean like the New York Times and the BBC?

anyways this isnt the same thing: it's not journalism or investigative reporting but rather they're expounding on their views regardless of facts. It's a PR piece nothing more. It no more proves creationism than had I written that article

 

[southernman17]

What repressing an unfavorable idea? Trying to keep quite a radical opinion? Its freedom of speech. Why not just ban all books with questionable content in them, oh wait they already did that. I usually agree with you lemonking but that's a bad idea. I think that all public schools ought to allow most publications into school with certain exceptions (playboys, bomb making guides etc...).


The Times and the BBC are notorious left-leaning news companies.

 

[Sulkdodds]

The only way they could lose is if the judge is a partisan douche bag that has no idea what a science is and what does/doesn't belong in a public education.

In that case, they may indeed lose.

The Times and the BBC are notorious left-leaning news companies.

I am going to assume this is a joke. If it's not, then you're at least wrong about the BBC (I've never read the New York Times). The BBC is niether right-wing nor left-wing.

 

[Lemonking]

religion is the stuff that boosts Terrorism thoe...


no matter if jewish, christian Islam they all boost terrorism


Islam is a biggest probelm these days thoe



why does it boost it cuz it keeps people dumb

the dumb are mostly poor and desprite and so on.

imo its common sense to belive in Evolution

 

[southernman17]

Religion itself doesn't boost terrorism. All religions are religions of love and peace. Its later rulers who want to propagate their belief and try to force it upon others violently that turn religion into something evil. Its the man-made institution that promotes terror.

 

[Lemonking]

In that case, they may indeed lose.




I am going to assume this is a joke. If it's not, then you're at least wrong about the BBC (I've never read the New York Times). The BBC is niether right-wing nor left-wing.

thew BBC is the way it should be >>neutral<< US Channels might learn something from them, so they can make real journalism

 

[CptStern]

What repressing an unfavorable idea? Trying to keep quite a radical opinion? Its freedom of speech. Why not just ban all books with questionable content in them, oh wait they already did that. I usually agree with you lemonking but that's a bad idea. I think that all public schools ought to allow most publications into school with certain exceptions (playboys, bomb making guides etc...).

not the same thing southernman ..you should read the article. They are pushing Intelligent design to be taught in biology class ..we're not talking about philosophy they're trying to pass off ID as fact which it isnt

The Times and the BBC are notorious left-leaning news companies.

please that's just outright false ..the new york times is a publically traded news company ..do you think for a minute that the stock holders would allow them to have a editorial slant that may hurt sales? anyone who's ever been in a newsroom knows that there is no "left leaning media" in mainstream media ..they're all corporate owned, which puts money over truth.


as for the BBC ...well ya I can see how they're left-leaning

 

[Sulkdodds]

See southernman. World Socialist website? Now THAT'S a left wing media source.

 

[CptStern]

yes yes it is most indepedents go either way

 

[southernman17]

http://www.timeswatch.org/

The Times are left-leaning. <obvious sarcasm>

As for the BBC, don't try to tell me they're not left by giving me a socialist web site as a source ( now that I've been overwhelmingly told they're not). That's like me trying to say the Ku Klux Klan are good people and giving you a even more radical hate groups' publication which states that they like blacks, jews etc...

Last post about the media ok?

 

[Tr0n]

It's simple

Faith = belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof.

Science = the knowledge gained by the study of the physical world.

So yea...they're pretty opposite.

 

[southernman17]

Did you read the loyola article? It provides good insight as to how they're not totally opposite.

 

[CptStern]

look you dont seem to understand the premise behind journalism ..thye are supposed to report what happens ..in other words investigative journalism ..which few media outlets do these days ..fox"news" for example regurgitates right-wing rhetoric isntead of the news

but yes I agree, the New York Times apologised for their terrible coverage leading up to the war (so did the washington times), when all US media, despite facts saying otherwise, promoted the war

 

[southernman17]

The television news "promoted" the war but most newspapers don't. Did you ever stop and think why its labeled the liberal media? Even our American governemt book which has NO political bias calls it the liberal media. It points out that liberals think its righ and conservatives think its left. So a moderate can pretty much conclude that its accurate. It all depends on how you look at it. If I read my Washington Post and read something I percieve as left, for instance the war, I usually decide its not as bad as they're claim it is. However if I read a conservative article about the war in which they claim it is going along fine, then I know something must be going terribly wrong. You have to draw your own conclusions based upon the source of the information and how set in your ideologies you are.

 

[gick]

There was maybe a brief three minute lecture about how creationism could fit in and that was the end of that. We were thaught that God simply guided evoultion or something along those lines.

That is ID isnt it?

The Times and the BBC are notorious left-leaning news companies.

I hear this all the time from Right-Wingers. Could you give some examples of reports or articles that display a Left wing bias?

 

[CptStern]

The television news "promoted" the war but most newspapers don't. Did you ever stop and think why its labeled the liberal media? Even our American governemt book which has NO political bias calls it the liberal media. It points out that liberals think its righ and conservatives think its left. So a moderate can pretty much conclude that its accurate. It all depends on how you look at it. If I read my Washington Post and read something I percieve as left, for instance the war, I usually decide its not as bad as they're claim it is. However if I read a conservative article about the war in which they claim it is going along fine, then I know something must be going terribly wrong. You have to draw your own conclusions based upon the source of the information and how set in your ideologies you are.

the current admin are neo-conservatives ..of course they think any media is left-leaning ..but let's get one thing straight ..there is no mainstream left media in the US ..corporate owned media prevents that

 

[southernman17]

If you went to Catholic school you'd understand. Its not ID.

Read the above posts to see the link for proof that the Times are left leaning.

 

[southernman17]

Of course the administration thinks the media is left. I agree. But to say that there is no left-leaning media is bogus. Corporations aren't always right-wingers stern. A lot of corporations are actulally left and a lot are right too.