Parents sue school board over teaching Intelligent Design

[Tr0n]

I agree, people are entitled to believe what they want ...just dont shove your beliefs down my throat, whether they be christian, muslim, agnostic or whatever

Exactly. Don't force yourselves. If someone wants to believe...then they will.

It's up to that person and that person only.

 

[CptStern]

IRT Stern

I wouldn't go that far. The inability to prove something's existence doesn't mean it's non-existent. If it exists, it exists independently of the evidence for it.

I agree ..but if we look at it from logic alone, there is no god. Faith is gut instinct, it has nothing to do with truth

So yes, there could be a god. But by following that reasoning, there could also be unicorns, dinosaurs at the center of the Earth, and we could all actually be litte germs on a cosmic dinner plate that is the universe. None of these have any evidence to support them, and so none of them merit any belief. The possibility of existence isn't good enough grounds..

yes that's my point ..because there's no proof either way logic can only conclude that up until this point we have zero proof of the existence of god ..therefore logic dictates that god doesnt exist

 

[Angry Lawyer]

agreed.

unless it was extremist.

- kore

Extremist =

Why should anyone have the rights to force their beliefs on others?

I believe God gave us a wonderful gift known as free will. Free will also includes being able to disbelieve. Its all about making your own mind up.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[southernman17]

Were not taking about what God looks like. God is beyond the realm of our mortal train of thought. I beleive in God and that He does concern himself in our daily doings. I don't care if I'm wrong because what do I have to lose by keeping that belief. Oh in the time it took my to type this several people already posted my same beliefs.

 

[Tr0n]

I agree ..but if we look at it from logic alone, there is no god. Faith is gut instinct, it has nothing to do with truth



yes that's my point ..because there's no proof either way logic can only conclude that up until this point we have zero proof of the existence of god ..therefore logic dictates that god doesnt exist

Well we humans were never logical you know. We ourselves are paradox as is our emotions.

We create some of the most beautiful things only to destroy them later. Or am I they only one here that sees that cycle?

 

[CptStern]

Were not taking about what God looks like. God is beyond the realm of our mortal train of thought. I beleive in God and that He does concern himself in our daily doings. I don't care if I'm wrong because what do I have to lose by keeping that belief.

oh I dont know, truth, enlightenment, awareness of the world around you, understanding of different people/cultures


out of curiosity what are your thoughts around same-sex marriage? abortion?

 

[Absinthe]

God is beyond the realm of our mortal train of thought.

If he presents himself in terms that cannot be understood and are meaningless to human thought, then again... why bother believing in it?

I beleive in God and that He does concern himself in our daily doings. I don't care if I'm wrong because what do I have to lose by keeping that belief.

Well, there's the chance that you may be subject to eternal damnation for believing in the wrong god. Or maybe your God punishes those that rely on "faith" rather than skepticism and rational doubt. Or maybe he'll praise you. Or maybe he'll do nothing. Maybe he doesn't exist.

In such a situation there is theoretically infinite possibilities. There is no "safe" bet.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I agree ..but if we look at it from logic alone, there is no god. Faith is gut instinct, it has nothing to do with truth



yes that's my point ..because there's no proof either way logic can only conclude that up until this point we have zero proof of the existence of god ..therefore logic dictates that god doesnt exist

Yet a hundred years ago, we had no concept of Black Holes, or Quarks.
A hundred years ago, logic dictated that matter didn't swirl up into infinitely dense points in space.
Not believing doesn't change whether something exists or not. Death is the only thing that proves or disproves it. If I'm right, then we're all sitting pretty, because any truly benevolent God is going to take folks in regardless of beliefs, but judge on their moral standard. If I'm wrong - its not like I'm going to care after I'm dead. Its not like I'll be able to.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Tr0n]

oh I dont know, truth, enlightenment, awareness of the world around you, understanding of different people/cultures

That's exactly my belief system also!

Awarness of reality and knowledge...and through those you will be enlightened.

 

[gick]

Faith and logic was never good together. Look folks...it doesn't matter what you believe.

AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE IN IT...then it doesn't matter what other people say. It may be wrong...it may be right, but who cares? It's what you believe. I believe there is a god and I ain't gonna let any other sonnva'bitch tell me differently. I know many people here don't do that.

So it doesn't matter. You don't have to prove yourselves. I sure as hell don't.

Likewise, I dont believe in a God, and I ain't gonna let any other sonnva'bitch tell me differently. People should be free to believe whatever they like, and not have people force their own beliefs upon them. which is why religion has no place in schools, because it is telling children in their formative years how think.

EDIT: Jeez, in the time it took me to post this, the thread had grown by a page

 

[KoreBolteR]

southern man what ya think about islam etc?

EDIT: i thought god was tr0n ...

 

[Absinthe]

If I'm wrong - its not like I'm going to care after I'm dead. Its not like I'll be able to.

Au contraire, you're susceptible to just as much hellfire (or whatever punishing equivalent) as anybody else is.

 

[CptStern]

That's exactly my belief system also!

Awarness of reality and knowledge...and through those you will be enlightened.

or utterly insane ..."truth is stranger than fiction"

the truth will not set you free but rather it will bog you down in facts figures and dates. The truth is not for the weak ...which probably explains why most of the people who support the war in iraq are blue collar workers who watch fox"news" - not saying this to be snide but rather just stating a fact

 

[Angry Lawyer]

out of curiosity what are your thoughts around same-sex marriage? abortion?

I'm for both, and I consider myself Christian. I'm also against ID and Creationism being taught in school.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[KoreBolteR]

can i ask what all your thoughts on afterlife are?

im not religious at all, but i believe theres a place we all go when we die. then well find out what the hell is out there. at last.

god might look like a box of matches.... who knows?! (if there IS a god)

 

[Angry Lawyer]

There's something after death, but it's likely not what religions have described. Something we can't understand.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[southernman17]

"out of curiosity what are your thoughts around same-sex marriage? abortion?"
That's for another post, bliink may be watching.

As for truth, enlightenment and the such, no one will ever be perfectly enlightened about the world around them. That's human nature. How does believing in God stop me from learning about other cultures and the world around me? I know in the "Beating" posts, I may have gotten a little hot-headed which portrayed me as anti-muslim and what not, but I am generally tolerant of other opinions and views even though they may piss me off.

All I did was state my belief of God and everyone complains. I don't care what God or entity you believe in as long as it suits you. Can no one just leave me with my view of God?

 

[Tr0n]

or utterly insane ..."truth is stranger than fiction"

the truth will not set you free but rather it will bog you down in facts figures and dates. The truth is not for the weak ...which probably explains why most of the people who support the war in iraq are blue collar workers who watch fox"news" - not saying this to be snide but rather just stating a fact

Well sadly that is true...it isn't for the weak. I know when I finally understood how this world worked and saw all the cycles and so on...my mind just went crazy.

It takes a lot to accept it...knowing the things you can do and can't. Truthfully I sometimes go on the verge of insanity just trying to understand god/fate/duality/blah blah...

It is hard to accept for most people sadly. I wish more people could see and feel what I see and feel.

 

[CptStern]

Yet a hundred years ago, we had no concept of Black Holes, or Quarks.
A hundred years ago, logic dictated that matter didn't swirl up into infinitely dense points in space.
Not believing doesn't change whether something exists or not. Death is the only thing that proves or disproves it. If I'm right, then we're all sitting pretty, because any truly benevolent God is going to take folks in regardless of beliefs, but judge on their moral standard. If I'm wrong - its not like I'm going to care after I'm dead. Its not like I'll be able to.

-Angry Lawyer

yes that's why I put in this qualifier:

"up until this point we have zero proof"


I dont think a personal god will ever be proven true ..it's just too selfish a concept to be ever taken seriously ..out of the billions if not trillions of planets in the known universe to believe that we are the chosen ones is just completely irrational, illogical and outright foolish

 

[Angry Lawyer]

It is hard to accept sadly. I wish more people could see and feel what I see and feel.

Seconded. Its rather inexplicable. Our concepts of beauty, reason, being able to try and define conciousness. Love, hate, the ability to choose.

Its a lot to take in.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[CptStern]

Well sadly that is true...it isn't for the weak. I know when I finally understood how this world worked and saw all the cycles and so on...my mind just went crazy.

hehe I'm more than twice your age and I'm not sure how the world works ...there's just far too much to know but ya I get your meaning

 

[Tr0n]

Oh yea...of course. No human brain could completely understand it all.

You'd probally end up going into shock or somethin'.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

yes that's why I put in this qualifier:

"up until this point we have zero proof"


I dont think a personal god will ever be proven true ..it's just too selfish a concept to be ever taken seriously ..out of the billions if not trillions of planets in the known universe to believe that we are the chosen ones is just completely irrational, illogical and outright foolish

I never stated we have a personal God. God set up the groundwork of the universe - therefore, every life-form, every plant, every rock, is his "chosen".
Like I said before, the Bible isn't perfect. Its like, when I code a world in C++, with rules for entities appearing. I didn't explicitly call for them to be created, but the groundwork I laid down created them. They can run autonomously without me guiding the steps they take, but I still made them, and in a geeky coder way, to an extent, I love what I make.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Beerdude26]

god might look like a box of matches....

Crap, I think I just smoked god
No wonder I'm in seventh heaven :smoking:

Ok enough cheesy jokes for today

 

[Tr0n]

I feel all wise like.

 

[CptStern]

"out of curiosity what are your thoughts around same-sex marriage? abortion?"
That's for another post, bliink may be watching.

well there you go, you just answered this for me:

"I don't care if I'm wrong because what do I have to lose by keeping that belief"

As for truth, enlightenment and the such, no one will ever be perfectly enlightened about the world around them. That's human nature. How does believing in God stop me from learning about other cultures and the world around me? I know in the "Beating" posts, I may have gotten a little hot-headed which portrayed me as anti-muslim and what not, but I am generally tolerant of other opinions and views even though they may piss me off.

well let's see, your religion has taught you how to be intolerant (muslims, abortion, same sex marriage)

 

[Tr0n]

Well Christianty as a whole...no. In terms of sects...then yea some have taught intolerance and all that bad stuff. Remember...the pope or vatican doesn't represent Christianty...they just happen to be the most powerful sect of it.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I feel all wise like.

So do I. I'm glad that the non-vocal non-extremist Christians have finally spoken. Even if its just us two.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[southernman17]

I never stated my beliefs on abortion and same-sex marriage and don't call me anti-muslim. Its not revelevent to the topic.

What I'm intolerant because I believe in God and don't care if I right or wrong if God exsists or not. I'm still a generaly good person.

 

[The Monkey]

This thread is growing like a tumour!

On a serious note, I don't think that this will stop schools teaching out ID. Maybe it will bring more awereness to the subject, bu after that, we just have to trust the judges and others to use their common sence.

 

[Tr0n]

So do I. I'm glad that the non-vocal non-extremist Christians have finally spoken. Even if its just us two.

-Angry Lawyer

I ain't really a christian now'n days. I was raised a baptist tho...but from that I became more spirtual. I'm not really apart of any religion...I find christianity lacking for some reason.

What's funny is I know more about Christianty itself then most christians. So yea...my roots come from christianity, but I went through many changes. Hell I use to be athiest..then agnostic, then I got into deism, and now I'm here. My free redneck self.

 

[KoreBolteR]

i thinik having all these religions will spire into hatred, = religious war.

 

[CptStern]

I never stated we have a personal God. God set up the groundwork of the universe - therefore, every life-form, every plant, every rock, is his "chosen".

I didnt imply that you did believe in a personal god ..actually I was going to comment that for a christian (are you anglican btw?) you're surprisingly toerant ...btw the United Church of Canada ordains women and performs same sex marriage ..so not all christian groups are intolerant

Like I said before, the Bible isn't perfect. Its like, when I code a world in C++, with rules for entities appearing. I didn't explicitly call for them to be created, but the groundwork I laid down created them. They can run autonomously without me guiding the steps they take, but I still made them, and in a geeky coder way, to an extent, I love what I make.

-Angry Lawyer

I'm having a hard enough time with html, actionscript and javascript ...and you wanna throw C++ at me?

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I didnt imply that you did believe in a personal god ..actually I was going to comment that for a christian (are you anglican btw?) you're surprisingly toerant ...btw the United Church of Canada ordains women and performs same sex marriage ..so not all christian groups are intolerant

Most Christians I've met are tolerant. It seems that tolerant Christians, because they are tolerant, don't speak out that much. But we do exist.

I'm having a hard enough time with html, actionscript and javascript ...and you wanna throw C++ at me?

C++ is better. God coded the universe in C++.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[KoreBolteR]

Most Christians I've met are tolerant. It seems that tolerant Christians, because they are tolerant, don't speak out that much. But we do exist.



C++ is better. God coded the universe in C++.

-Angry Lawyer

in 7 days :O....

but what did he do on the 8th?

code mars?

 

[Kangy]

I'm agnostic, but I think the concept of God is too impossibly huge for me to ever comprehend, so I don't bother trying. Really, I think that any organised religion claiming to understand or interpret God is completely and utterly wrong. I also believe that anything that's omnipotent like God is probably doesn't want me speaking for it, pinning "facts" on it and devoting every day of my life to it. Why would it care? It's omnipotent, and I'm one of at least six and a half billion. Possibly trillions more, as the universe is also incomprehensibly huge, and probably has planets with similar life forms on it somewhere.

 

[Tr0n]

in 7 days :O....

but what did he do on the 8th?

code mars?

Probally masturbated to some porn.

 

[CptStern]

I never stated my beliefs on abortion and same-sex marriage

you implied it:


"That's for another post, bliink may be watching."

and don't call me anti-muslim. Its not revelevent to the topic.

I only know you from what you post ...and from where I sit you look like you're intolerant of muslims ..and it is revelant because that fear of muslims is taught in religion ..any student of christian history can tell you that

What I'm intolerant because I believe in God and don't care if I right or wrong if God exsists or not. I'm still a generaly good person.

be that as it may ...you're intolerance stems from your adherence to religious dogma. In other words you practice a religion that is intolerant therefore if you fully believe in your religion then you by default share that intolerance

 

[KoreBolteR]

Probally masturbated to some porn.

ROFL

 

[Angry Lawyer]

In my world view of Religion - every Religion has something right, but lots wrong.

-Angry Lawyer