Paul Krugman: "What is it about Al Gore that drives right-wingers insane?"

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Gore Derangement Syndrome
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: October 15, 2007

....What is it about Mr. Gore that drives right-wingers insane?

Partly it?s a reaction to what happened in 2000, when the American people chose Mr. Gore but his opponent somehow ended up in the White House. Both the personality cult the right tried to build around President Bush and the often hysterical denigration of Mr. Gore were, I believe, largely motivated by the desire to expunge the stain of illegitimacy from the Bush administration.

And now that Mr. Bush has proved himself utterly the wrong man for the job ? to be, in fact, the best president Al Qaeda?s recruiters could have hoped for ? the symptoms of Gore derangement syndrome have grown even more extreme.

The worst thing about Mr. Gore, from the conservative point of view, is that he keeps being right. In 1992, George H. W. Bush mocked him as the ?ozone man,? but three years later the scientists who discovered the threat to the ozone layer won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry. In 2002 he warned that if we invaded Iraq, ?the resulting chaos could easily pose a far greater danger to the United States than we presently face from Saddam.? And so it has proved.

But Gore hatred is more than personal. When National Review decided to name its anti-environmental blog Planet Gore, it was trying to discredit the message as well as the messenger. For the truth Mr. Gore has been telling about how human activities are changing the climate isn?t just inconvenient. For conservatives, it?s deeply threatening....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/opinion/15krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Why do people today constantly buy in to the right wing bullshit about Gore? Why should you people give so much credibility to people that deserve none. They have been proven wrong each and every single time, Gore has been proven right. Yet these right wing idiots continue to get air time to spew these lies, why?
 
I've just listened to interviews of both Gore and Clinton. I had forgotten what it was like to actually have a due in the White House that can actually make you understand what they wish to achieve and why they want to do it. I can't wait until Dick and George goes away.
 
Maybe it's that his movie for instance has been labelled unscientific by a judge in a court of law and that his movie is apparently full of unsubstantiated claims. 9 of them: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2632660.ece

And about the judge thing: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/corporate_law/article2633838.ece

In 2002 he warned that if we invaded Iraq, ?the resulting chaos could easily pose a far greater danger to the United States than we presently face from Saddam.? And so it has proved.
'

That's interesting, because in 1992 he said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDitSbkQKIs
Guess he's a flip-flopper like Kerry.
 
Al Gore isn't a scientist, if mistake were made with details, it's not really his fault.
 
Wrong. It is his fault. If he wants to be taken serious, he probably shouldn't use, for example, a dermatologist as an "expert" on his documentary! :D

But then again, we can't knock him. It's the former Vice President, you know, that guy, Al Gore. And he's really just trying to make debate. But if Al Gore wanted a rational debate, he probably wouldn't have made such a flawed documentary, would he? :)
 
Wow, I guess we should be happy that GWB only was wrong about something like invading another country and killing civilians and not something serious like a little detail in a movie. Or Paris Hilton.
 
nemesis, I'll pose this question to you. Lets pretend you are back in time in 2000 as a citizen of america. You know then what you know now. Who do you vote for, Gore or Bush?
 
Well I can't really know what I know now since what I know now is the result of 7 years of events which, in the timeline you specify, haven't happened yet. I don't know where you're going with this.

Anyway, so you acknowledge that the movie is flawed or what? What's your opinion after reading through those two links?
 
Well I can't really know what I know now since what I know now is the result of 7 years of events which, in the timeline you specify, haven't happened yet. I don't know where you're going with this.
What the hell are you talking about? Do you vote for the guy with the nobel peace prize or the guy that killed hundreds of thousands of people? its a fairly simple question, why are you dodging it. But the fact you dodged it I think I know the answer to that question, you just don't want to make it public.
Anyway, so you acknowledge that the movie is flawed or what? What's your opinion after reading through those two links?

Sure, like every other documentary in this world has been flawed. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes. You are pointing out 9 minor flaws out of how many total questions?

Do you see how you are again saying he is wrong? Why should I give you an ounce of credibility in that regard when your kind has been proven wrong on so many different occasions. You were wrong on global warming in the 90s, in 2000 when people like you were saying it didn't exist, and you are wrong again now that you changed your position to the fact it exists you just don't think people are behind it. You were wrong with Iraq, he was right. So I'll ask again, why should I believe you over him?
 
Global Warming deniers think that bashing Gore is a good argument against Global Warming. "Gore drives a big car, therefore Global Warming must be a myth!" It's ridiculous.
 
Global Warming deniers think that bashing Gore is a good argument against Global Warming. "Gore drives a big car, therefore Global Warming must be a myth!" It's ridiculous.

That's certainly true. But what pisses me off the most is that these assholes still have a medium to make these stupid claims in. These are the same people that said he was wrong in 92 when he was proven right. These are the same people that said he was wrong in 2002, yet he was proven right. And now I am supposed to have an honest discussion with them when they once again claim he is wrong? And in 10 years when history proves him right they will be pulling more bullshit from their ass about how wrong he is on whatever issue comes up at that time.
 
Guess he's a flip-flopper like Kerry.
Politics, of course, being the only place in the world where 'sticking to your guns', even if to a bad decision, is considered a positive thing. I guess people aren't allowed to change their opinions at all over the course of a decade, let alone say two different things on two rather different occasions.

In case you missed my subtle sarcasm there, I think the text quoted above is the most stupid thing I've read in a long time.
 
What the hell are you talking about? Do you vote for the guy with the nobel peace prize or the guy that killed hundreds of thousands of people? its a fairly simple question, why are you dodging it. But the fact you dodged it I think I know the answer to that question, you just don't want to make it public.

Ok, so because a guy got the nobel peace prize he's a good guy? I guess I gotta stop by hell and break the news to Arafat that he's automatically a good guy now.

Sure, like every other documentary in this world has been flawed. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes. You are pointing out 9 minor flaws out of how many total questions?
9 minor flaws? As far as I can tell, these are all examples that he uses to "prove" that global warming is affecting us right now. And now we've found out that he's just been lieing. There's a difference between sloppy research and lieing.

Do you see how you are again saying he is wrong? Why should I give you an ounce of credibility in that regard when your kind has been proven wrong on so many different occasions. You were wrong on global warming in the 90s, in 2000 when people like you were saying it didn't exist, and you are wrong again now that you changed your position to the fact it exists you just don't think people are behind it. You were wrong with Iraq, he was right. So I'll ask again, why should I believe you over him?

Excuse me, how exactly do you know my opinion on global warming? Could it be that you're being just a little presumptuous there? I distance myself not from the theory of global warming, but from the idea that we're the cause of it and that we should all heed the Goracle blindly, especially after we found out that he just makes up shit.

We should researching things, yeah, but we shouldn't do it like Al Gore; In a desperate attempt to get back in the spotlight by using scare-tactics to gain support.
 
I'm sure there is an element of ego and self-publicisation in Gore's activities. He's a politician.

Excuse me, how exactly do you know my opinion on global warming? Could it be that you're being just a little presumptuous there? I distance myself not from the theory of global warming, but from the idea that we're the cause of it...
Ha? That's exactly what he just said your opinion was:

No Limit said:
...you are wrong again now that you changed your position to the fact it exists you just don't think people are behind it.
 
Ok, so because a guy got the nobel peace prize he's a good guy? I guess I gotta stop by hell and break the news to Arafat that he's automatically a good guy now.
Not going to answer the question are you? I guess you don't have to, I think we all know your answer is Bush. And if thats the case I don't think I need to add anything else.

9 minor flaws? As far as I can tell, these are all examples that he uses to "prove" that global warming is affecting us right now. And now we've found out that he's just been lieing. There's a difference between sloppy research and lieing.
9 out of how many? Are you trying to say he only made 9 claims in the entire movie? If not that means most of everything else was valid according to the judge. And yes, they were minor flaws. I'll give you one example. He said the winds that pass through greenland were likely to stop if global warming continued leading to huge problems. The judge said this was alarmist. Well the IPCC said that there was a 5%-10% chance of this happening. So Gore wasn't lying or being alarmist, as if this actually happened we would be in some huge shit. So everything depends on the judge's definition of what alarmist means, its a minor detail.

Excuse me, how exactly do you know my opinion on global warming? Could it be that you're being just a little presumptuous there? I distance myself not from the theory of global warming, but from the idea that we're the cause of it and that we should all heed the Goracle blindly, especially after we found out that he just makes up shit.
So you never ever denied global warming existed like these people did:

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2002/06/04/20020604_080612_flash71.htm

Even the global warming advocates to this day will not tell you it is definitively happening."

From your hero Rush Limpballs.

Now you are telling me that I should believe people that denied global warming even existed and ignore the people that made 9 small errors that were found through nitpicking in a 3 hour presentation? Tell me why I should do this.
 
Not going to answer the question are you? I guess you don't have to, I think we all know your answer is Bush. And if thats the case I don't think I need to add anything else.
Maybe I wouldn't vote for either of them?

9 out of how many? Are you trying to say he only made 9 claims in the entire movie? If not that means most of everything else was valid according to the judge. And yes, they were minor flaws. I'll give you one example. He said the winds that pass through greenland were likely to stop if global warming continued leading to huge problems. The judge said this was alarmist. Well the IPCC said that there was a 5%-10% chance of this happening. So Gore wasn't lying or being alarmist, as if this actually happened we would be in some huge shit. So everything depends on the judge's definition of what alarmist means, its a minor detail.
Ok, so there's a percentage chance of one of the things happening - But then again, this is according to a panel which uses the research of scientists and cuts away what they don't agree with. I don't know how objective the IPCC are when you've got people sueing them to get their names off of their research after it's been recut to fit their agenda.


So you never ever denied global warming existed like these people did:

Now you are telling me that I should believe people that denied global warming even existed and ignore the people that made 9 small errors that were found through nitpicking in a 3 hour presentation?

I've never told you to believe anyone. I don't know what the hell you're going on about posting links to Drudge Report.

Anyway, one of the errors has a 5 to 10% chance of happening according to a panel that's less than objective. Right, 8 to go. You still can't deny that these other "minor" problems are still outright lies not substantiated with proof in the movie - That makes them non-minor. Outright lies for the purpose of supporting a scientific theory = Wrong.
 
Maybe I wouldn't vote for either of them?
Nemesis wouldn't vote? The guy that sits on this message board day in and day out talking about politics. Please, you can't possibly be serious. But lets pretend in some crazy world you don't vote, who would you support?
Ok, so there's a percentage chance of one of the things happening - But then again, this is according to a panel which uses the research of scientists and cuts away what they don't agree with. I don't know how objective the IPCC are when you've got people sueing them to get their names off of their research after it's been recut to fit their agenda.
Gore used research based on the largest global warming study ever conducted. They said there is a 5%-10% chance that this could have happened. Therefore when the judge said it was alarmist that would depend on what his defenition of alarmist is. I don't know why you are trying to derail this simple point, the IPCC study has nothing to do with the point you made about Al Gore when you called him a liar.
I've never told you to believe anyone. I don't know what the hell you're going on about posting links to Drudge Report.
I am showing you how over the last few years the people you support and share your opinions with totally flipped on their position on global warming. Just 6 years ago they were saying it didn't exist, now they are saying it exists but is not caused by humans. They are pulling bullshit out of their asses, bullshit not based on any real science, and throwing it out there in such a huge medium to cast doubt on global warming. If they have totally "flip flopped" as you put it why should I listen to the latest talking points these same people came up with?
Anyway, one of the errors has a 5 to 10% chance of happening according to a panel that's less than objective. Right, 8 to go. You still can't deny that these other "minor" problems are still outright lies not substantiated with proof in the movie - That makes them non-minor. Outright lies for the purpose of supporting a scientific theory = Wrong.
You are skipping over the parts of my post you don't seem to like. If you believe the judges then there were only 9 mistakes in the movie, one you just admitted was a minor mistake. That leaves plenty more claims made in that movie that must be accurate as has been reviewed by the courts. Thats only 9 mistakes in a 3 hour long presentation.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/10448

Hours before the Nobel Prize announcement, the Washington Post ran a news story quoting High Court Judge Michael Burton as detecting ?nine errors? in the documentary and asserting that the alleged mistakes ?arise in the context of alarmism and exaggeration in support of his political thesis.?

...

Mainstream news outlets, such as CNN, quickly fell into line, citing Burton?s ruling almost every time Gore?s Nobel Peace Prize was mentioned on Oct. 12.

That article does a great job going through the list and showing how all of these points were minor in the context of the entire 3 hour presentation. But dont want to believe them, then please point out which of those 9 "lies" should totally disqualify the entire movie.

As a side note, you haven't watched the movie yet, have you?
 
Because he's popular and people listen to him.
 
Nemesis wouldn't vote? The guy that sits on this message board day in and day out talking about politics. Please, you can't possibly be serious. But lets pretend in some crazy world you don't vote, who would you support?
Maybe because he's talking about voting for a third candidate?
 
Maybe because he's talking about voting for a third candidate?

I strongly doubt it. The only other serious 3rd party candidate was Ralph Nader from the green party, and I simply can't imagine Nemesis voting for a green party candidate. :LOL:

Really all I am trying to prove with this point is that once again people like nemesis were on the wrong side of history. Why in the world should we take anything they say today seriously?
 
Nemesis wouldn't vote? The guy that sits on this message board day in and day out talking about politics. Please, you can't possibly be serious. But lets pretend in some crazy world you don't vote, who would you support?
Nope. If there are no good candidates I wouldn't vote. As easy as that.

Gore used research based on the largest global warming study ever conducted. They said there is a 5%-10% chance that this could have happened. Therefore when the judge said it was alarmist that would depend on what his defenition of alarmist is. I don't know why you are trying to derail this simple point, the IPCC study has nothing to do with the point you made about Al Gore when you called him a liar.
I thought you said it was the IPCC who talked about that 5 to 10% chance of the Greenland winds thing. Still, this is just detail. What about all the other things? The snow on Mount Killimanjaro melting? Islands being swallowed gobbled up by the Pacific sea? Just a few examples of course, and both of those classify as scare-mongering because they're lies.

If they have totally "flip flopped" as you put it why should I listen to the latest talking points these same people came up with?

Al Gore flip-flops on issues, too, yet you listen to him.

If you believe the judges then there were only 9 mistakes in the movie, one you just admitted was a minor mistake. That leaves plenty more claims made in that movie that must be accurate as has been reviewed by the courts. Thats only 9 mistakes in a 3 hour long presentation. Etc

As I said: The rest aren't really minor - They're all examples that Gore uses to prove that our impending doom is near, and they're lies. I said it before - Lies < Sloppy research

By the way, no, haven't watched the movie. Though I trust Matt Stone and Trey Parker's disappointment was well placed after the movie has actually been judged unscientific. Not that this is the ultimate verdict, but on such an important issue(?) should we be resorting to Al Gore's shit -- Scare-mongering?

Double by the way: This is not the only critique it has received: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Inconvenient_Truth#Criticism
 
Nope. If there are no good candidates I wouldn't vote. As easy as that.
So knowing what you know now you wouldn't vote to try and help get Gore elected?
You would be okay with Bush winning by not voting?

I thought you said it was the IPCC who talked about that 5 to 10% chance of the Greenland winds thing. Still, this is just detail. What about all the other things? The snow on Mount Killimanjaro melting? Islands being swallowed gobbled up by the Pacific sea? Just a few examples of course, and both of those classify as scare-mongering because they're lies.
I posted a link to an article you can read which went through each example one by one. If you find anything factually wrong with that article let me know.

Al Gore flip-flops on issues, too, yet you listen to him.
Flip flops in what way? The example you posted shows him flip flopping from being wrong to being right. With the right wing they flip flop to whereever the political atmosphere is at that perticular time.

By the way, no, haven't watched the movie. Though I trust Matt Stone and Trey Parker's disappointment was well placed after the movie has actually been judged unscientific. Not that this is the ultimate verdict, but on such an important issue(?) should we be resorting to Al Gore's shit -- Scare-mongering?
Why do you continue to base your opinion off entertainers? As much as I love south park they have been wrong numerous times.

Double by the way: This is not the only critique it has received:
The first criticism on that wikipedia page comes from a guy that works as a consultant to the oil lobby. So he pretty much sold his soul to them for I think around $2,500 a day. By your own standard that must invalidate all other criticism on that wikipedia page, no?
 
Tell you what: If the choice was between Jimmy Carter and Al Gore, Al Gore would get my vote because he's the least nutty of them. But it would be reluctantly because I don't respond well to people to being a pawn Al Gore tries to pressure by presenting lies and exaggerations as fact in order to make himself look important again.

I'd rather take your word for it than read that website. I've poked around on that website, and it's straight for the loony bin, focusing on things like if Ahmadinejad said "wipe Israel off the map" or not. It's that low. I'm sure I could find more, but my brain hurts when I read someone who says "Radical Islam, a threat? Don't make me laugh."

The first criticism... Yeah, someone working for the "oil lobby" is hardly NPOV, but the whole selling your soul thing, you know that's bullshit.
 
How is it bullshit? Would you trust a scientist that says smoking doesn't cause cancer if that scientist makes bank working for tobacco companies? If that $2,500 a day number is accurate, I got it from wikipedia which cited an article from 95, then thats a shit load of money, certainly enough for most people to sell their souls over.

And please don't give me that bullshit about not reading the web site. They went through all the claims and pointed out how whoever argued this case to the judge fine combed through the entire 3 hour presentation to come up with these 9 mistakes, and if that site is accurate those mistakes are certainly minor, many of them subject to the judge's personal opinion on it.
 
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