PC Gaming Is Dying...

[SFLUFAN]

...and if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to ya.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of what I think are some of the most anticpated games for this upcoming fall/winter 2004 and early 2005. Good God - it's either feast or famine for PC gaming but what a feast it is! Some will be available on consoles as well. Make your wish lists now

Half Life 2
Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault
Call of Duty: United Offensive
Brothers-In-Arms
Close Combat: First To Fight
Men of Valor
Ghost Recon 2 (though doesn't look as good as original)
Battle for Middle Earth
Rome: Total War
Tribes: Vengeance
Star Wars: Battlefront
Evil Genius
Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Evercrack II
KOTOR II
Dungeon Seige II
Sid Meier's Pirates
Full Spectrum Warrior
World of Warcraft
Sims 2 (yes I'll even include this one)
Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude
Warhammer 40000 Dawn of War
Prince of Persia 2

And in early 2005:
Middle Earth Online
Pariah
Battlefield 2
Snowblind
F.E.A.R.
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
Star Wars: Republic Commando

Reports of the death of PC Gaming have been GREATLY exaggerated

 

[blahblahblah]

PC Gaming goes in cycles. Oddly, they seem to correspond whenever ID software releases a game. :dozey:

[Edit]: Ironically, you forgot to include Doom 3.

 

[Mac]

no doom 3? ouch

 

[SFLUFAN]

Well - I kinda specified that the list was for fall/winter 2004 and early 2005

Doom III is a summer release but it has every right to be on the list too

 

[Gorgon]

LOL, nice list of games , 7 game out of the above list I will buy this year. OH yeah

Include NFSU 2

 

[lans]

Games such as Dungeon seige 2, KOTOR 2, Star Wars: battlefront are going to come out next year. Maybe, KOTOR 2, might make it by the finish line (in december).

Oh, and games like Leisure suit larry don't intrest me at all - crap gameplay and pre-rendered seductive females...meh.

 

[riTuaL]

I'm very glad you included F.E.A.R. That game looks like it's gonne be sick.. FD

 

[Some_God]

5 out of the above list that im gonna get/try to get.

 

[CptStern]

Games such as Dungeon seige 2, KOTOR 2, Star Wars: battlefront are going to come out next year. Maybe, KOTOR 2, might make it by the finish line (in december).

Oh, and games like Leisure suit larry don't intrest me at all - crap gameplay and pre-rendered seductive females...meh.

star wars battlefront is coming out in september. I saw a pre-order box today

 

[EVIL]

DOOM³
Half Life²
Brothers-In-Arms
Rome: Total War
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Battlefield 2

Harr.. good times up ahead matey... lots of treasure

 

[ductonius]

PC gaming is the well-spring from whence all other gaming flows.

There are far fewer limitations on PC games than there are on console games. Developers are therefore free to make their games pretty much as they see fit which means new concepts will be developed faster and limits pushed farther on PC compared to console.

The only problem for developers is that PC gamers are a fairly discriminating bunch. Games that are well received on console are more often than not scoffed at on PC because they tend to bear the hallmarks of the consoles limitations. Limitations that PC gamers are unused to dealing with.

 

[Seppo]

Seriously where do the "experts" get this kind of things. Last time I checked, XboX or Playstation 2 weren't even close to PC. And the most powerful console of the moment, XboX, is based on PC technology anyway.

Good thread title by the way, gonna get a lot of views

 

[ShadowFox]

PC Gaming goes in cycles. Oddly, they seem to correspond whenever ID software releases a game. :dozey:

[Edit]: Ironically, you forgot to include Doom 3.

PC gaming also slows down when all of the new consoles come out and traditional PC developers sell out. Then this time period comes around and new PC developers establish themselves.

 

[Gunner]

I got a short wishlist:

HL2, D3, and BF2

If you haven't noticed I like FPS shooters a lot hehe.

 

[SFLUFAN]

I think that the FPS genre is by far the most dominant one at the moment on the PC - simply because you can REALLY show off pretty graphics with it.

For 2nd place, I'd say it's a toss-up between RTS and RPG (including MMORPG).

 

[ShadowFox]

Sadly is the space-sim genre is dead and rotting.

 

[SFLUFAN]

Not if DEREK SMART has anytying to say about it...hahahahaha...ugggghh :hmph:

 

[OCybrManO]

PC Gaming will be less popular once consoles get a good way to control FPS and RTS games (and mods for them)... as those are the last stronghold of the PC gamer (they are why I own a gaming PC). Look at the popularity of almost any other genre on the PC. They already support broadband and hard drives. I love my PC, but if consoles get a mouse/keyboard setup that is supported by all developers I would be playing most of my games on my big screen HDTV.

Why? Who would not like to pay only $200-300 every three to five years and still be able to play all of the games at high detail with great framerates? Who wants to spend 5 to 10 times as much... and twice as often... for a PC that only gives slightly better results (or even worse for a while after the consoles are first released)?

Remember, right now we're near the end of the current consoles' lifespans. When the next Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo consoles come out it will probably take top of the line PC's several months (or even a year) to catch up with them in terms of graphical power. That's usually how the cycle goes. Also, the graphics keep getting better and better on a console as developers learn how to harness its power. That helps it somewhat to keep up with the physical upgradeability of PC's.

 

[gusolson]

PC Gaming will be less popular once consoles get a good way to control FPS and RTS games (and mods for them)... as those are the last stronghold of the PC gamer (they are why I own a gaming PC).

I don't think mods will ever make it onto consoles well...you'll still need a computer to make them and probably a significant ammount of hardware to get them onto the consoles.

 

[Asuka]

PC Gaming goes in cycles. Oddly, they seem to correspond whenever ID software releases a game. :dozey:

[Edit]: Ironically, you forgot to include Doom 3.

Doom 3 is out in 17 days.

 

[Asuka]

PC Gaming will be less popular once consoles get a good way to control FPS and RTS games (and mods for them)... as those are the last stronghold of the PC gamer (they are why I own a gaming PC). Look at the popularity of almost any other genre on the PC. They already support broadband and hard drives. I love my PC, but if consoles get a mouse/keyboard setup that is supported by all developers I would be playing most of my games on my big screen HDTV.

Why? Who would not like to pay only $200-300 every three to five years and still be able to play all of the games at high detail with great framerates? Who wants to spend 5 to 10 times as much... and twice as often... for a PC that only gives slightly better results (or even worse for a while after the consoles are first released)?

Remember, right now we're near the end of the current consoles' lifespans. When the next Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo consoles come out it will probably take top of the line PC's several months (or even a year) to catch up with them in terms of graphical power. That's usually how the cycle goes. Also, the graphics keep getting better and better on a console as developers learn how to harness its power. That helps it somewhat to keep up with the physical upgradeability of PC's.

Your very wrong look at doom 3 on x box and then look at it on pc the difference is insane. Pc > x box. Pc gfx sound everything is at least 20x better then consoles. Pc also update a lot faster. Geforce 5950 ultra - 6800 ultra (a few months)? (2x apart) playstation - playstation 2 (years)

 

[Foxtrot]

Your very wrong look at doom 3 on x box and then look at it on pc the difference is insane. Pc > x box. Pc gfx sound everything is at least 20x better then consoles. Pc also update a lot faster. Geforce 5950 ultra - 6800 ultra (a few months)? (2x apart) playstation - playstation 2 (years)

Sound is better on a PC? I think that depends on your set up.

 

[sHm0zY]

PC gameing will never die.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

so is there any doubt the computer gaming industry will make more $$$ than hollywood?

 

[NeonSpyder]

arg... the green colour burns my eyes! arg! arg!

on a lighter note, PC gaming's adaptability and customizability are more reasons why it will not die

 

[<RJMC>]

PC gaming will never die
I hav concsoles also amd I like consoles
but the PC will be good for gaming no matter what happen

 

[chu]

I think games in general should only be developed for it's designated system. Pc games for pc only, xbox games for xbox only, etc.

With this new crossbredding of games it feels as us (PC gamers) are losing out. People that paid 1/5 the price of a computer get to play the same games as we do. Sure we might get to see prettier graphics but is it really worth the extra $1000-1200?

I think that if you pay for the better system you should get the better games.

See it like this:

You paid an arm and a leg for a brand new Ferrari. You might have the power but when the speed limit is only 55 that Geo Metro will be right along side you. So why pay for the extra power when the speed limit is the same for everyone?

Does that make any sense to anyone? It did in my head...

 

[NeonSpyder]

made sense to me. but what a Geo Metro? some kind of crap with wheels?

 

[chu]

made sense to me. but what a Geo Metro? some kind of crap with wheels?

yes.......

 

[OCybrManO]

Your very wrong look at doom 3 on x box and then look at it on pc the difference is insane. Pc > x box. Pc gfx sound everything is at least 20x better then consoles. Pc also update a lot faster. Geforce 5950 ultra - 6800 ultra (a few months)? (2x apart) playstation - playstation 2 (years)

The difference between the XBox and a current PC's graphics is not "insane". The sound quality of consoles is equal to that of PC's; it just depends on the quality of your speakers. Second, consoles keep the hardware consistent among all of the consumers to cut down on the amount of abstraction between the game software and the hardware (the less intermediate steps the operating system has to deal with the more efficiently the hardware will be able to perform), to cut down on development time (developers don't have to design the game to run at 5 or 6 different quality levels depending on varying hardware), and it vastly speeds up the testing process (they only have to test for errors on one hardware setup instead of 100 different video cards, CPUs, motherboards, sound cards, etc).

PC gameing will never die.

I didn't say PC gaming would die... I said it would become much less popular (a logical statement).

PC gaming's adaptability and customizability are more reasons why it will not die

The XBox allows you to download new official maps for games, but not community-made maps. The next step is to let the users make their own content. If that happens (more like "When that happens" because consoles are taking over a lot of the advantages that PCs have) only the people that want to make mods will need a computer.

the PC will be good for gaming no matter what happen

The point is not that PCs can't do games well. The point is that consoles can do almost everything just as well (even better in some cases) for a small fraction of the price.

With this new crossbredding of games it feels as us (PC gamers) are losing out. People that paid 1/5 the price of a computer get to play the same games as we do. Sure we might get to see prettier graphics but is it really worth the extra $1000-1200?

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. If consoles start getting FPS and RTS games that are designed for a keyboard/mouse combo why wouldn't you want to play them on a console? I mean, if you buy a console for $200 instead of building a good PC for $1700 you will have $1500 to spend on games and/or accessories! Would you rather have a PC and 2 games or a console and 32 games?

 

[Mac]

I dunno, theres something about the feel of sitting a mere foot in front of a 21" monitor with a mouse and keyboard, that I could never get from sitting 5-6 feet from a tv screen with controller. After being introduced to pc gaming, I've just never felt comfortable using a console to game (at least for fps games, which is what i love). Guess im just picky like that..

 

[Varsity]

The difference between the XBox and a current PC's graphics is not "insane".

I think I'll let that one drop.

Second, consoles keep the hardware consistent among all of the consumers to cut down on the amount of abstraction between the game software and the hardware (the less intermediate steps the operating system has to deal with the more efficiently the hardware will be able to perform), to cut down on development time (developers don't have to design the game to run at 5 or 6 different quality levels depending on varying hardware), and it vastly speeds up the testing process (they only have to test for errors on one hardware setup instead of 100 different video cards, CPUs, motherboards, sound cards, etc).

DirextX is the quietly brilliant PC answer to most of the above. In fact the only real problem you've got up there is testing. It can indeed take forever.

I didn't say PC gaming would die... I said it would become much less popular (a logical statement).

Which people have been saying ever since the SNES. It's not new, history shows it's not true - yet - and bearing nuclear holocaust won't be either.

The XBox allows you to download new official maps for games, but not community-made maps. The next step is to let the users make their own content. If that happens (more like "When that happens" because consoles are taking over a lot of the advantages that PCs have) only the people that want to make mods will need a computer.

Which again they have been doing ever since the first consoles. PCs move along too, you know.

The point is not that PCs can't do games well. The point is that consoles can do almost everything just as well (even better in some cases) for a small fraction of the price.

Asuming you can stand staring at a blurry flickering TV screen, don't mind lower graphical settings, play games that support mouse/keyboard (and are better off with them, natch) and above all don't mind playing the endless waves of rubbish titles that come out, although that is of course merely IMHO. Looking up and down the shelves in my game shop, I can fit almost all console titles into four categories: sports, film/TV tie-in, shallow blaster, or PC port. All of them have a tendancy to be rubbish.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. If consoles start getting FPS and RTS games that are designed for a keyboard/mouse combo why wouldn't you want to play them on a console? I mean, if you buy a console for $200 instead of building a good PC for $1700 you will have $1500 to spend on games and/or accessories! Would you rather have a PC and 2 games or a console and 32 games?

A good PC with as much longevity as a console can cost as little as £500 - given what you are getting over and above a console, not a bad prive at all and it's cheaper still if you build it yourself. If you want to buy a PC soley for playing games, and not browsing the internet as you are now, doing work, chatting with friends, making mods and everything else you are of course going to be in the area where consoles are more efficient in terms of cash: but then so would you be if you bought every console on the market in a similar over-the-top spending spree.

 

[Cole]

I dunno, theres something about the feel of sitting a mere foot in front of a 21" monitor with a mouse and keyboard, that I could never get from sitting 5-6 feet from a tv screen with controller. After being introduced to pc gaming, I've just never felt comfortable using a console to game (at least for fps games, which is what i love). Guess im just picky like that..

And if even if u felt the exact opposite, a pc could pull it off..

I would hate to image playing starcraft on a n64 controler, thats just to crap for me. Or any other RTS for that matter. Tv's are very low res. And a good amount of console games can be emulated to the pc. And just about all the console controllers plus more can be used on the pc. Therefor pc's are better. You get a $2000 thousand pc, well thats gonna last you a while. Far longer than an Xbox would. Pc's are only growing. Pc is a much bigger market and will always be. Pc's are MUCH more games that are constantly coming out. And something that consoles don't have..

Classic old games.
Like 1, Starcraft...still can get up to 200+ thousand people on at once. N64 had it, i highly doubt no one have playe dit in 4 years.
Diablo 2, Around 200, ive seen it average near 70 thousand plus.

People seem to think that because games are going to the console market, but yet more are comming for the pc and that consolse are less but are worse that it is loosing people but in reality it is gaining more people tword its games. Its not about how many games you have, but how many people play the games u have, and how much you make of course.

Pc's also have the internet(meaning full access no limiations to the net really), messengers, can keep up with technology which once a console is released...and all of a sudden a new cheap afordable and kick ass technology comes out the next day..well they gotta release a whole new damn console updating it with this technology. While a pc you can just buy a new part\dl something.'

Pc Gaming is just getting started.

 

[OCybrManO]

Which people have been saying ever since the SNES. It's not new, history shows it's not true - yet - and bearing nuclear holocaust won't be either.

History shows the opposite of your statement. Consoles started with only games, then they could play music CDs, then they got online capabilities, then they could play DVD movies, then they got hard drives... and they will continue to assimilate popular gaming/multimedia-related features of computers. With each new addition to consoles they close the gap between console and computer... yet they still remain a fraction of the price of a comparably powerful PC. They keep getting more and more attractive in comparison to a high-end gaming PC.

Asuming you can stand staring at a blurry flickering TV screen, don't mind lower graphical settings, play games that support mouse/keyboard (and are better off with them, natch) and above all don't mind playing the endless waves of rubbish titles that come out, although that is of course merely IMHO. Looking up and down the shelves in my game shop, I can fit almost all console titles into four categories: sports, film/TV tie-in, shallow blaster, or PC port. All of them have a tendancy to be rubbish.

I prefer my widescreen HDTV to my CRT. It's not blurry or flickery. Your TV must suck.

The "endless waves of rubbish titles" argument works for PC games even more than console games because you can legally rent the console games before you buy them (and for you pirates, yes, you can download and burn copies of console games) unlike PC games. Console games are more varied than PC games. I'd bet that almost 75% of PC games are probably shooters or strategy games. If you skip consoles you're missing a lot. Most of the "greatest games of all time" are console games.

Also, I do prefer mouse/keyboard for RTS/FPS games, but (as I said in my last several posts on this subject) if my consoles had decent mouse/keyboard support I would almost completely stop using my PC as a gaming machine.

A good PC with as much longevity as a console can cost as little as £500 - given what you are getting over and above a console, not a bad prive at all and it's cheaper still if you build it yourself. If you want to buy a PC soley for playing games, and not browsing the internet as you are now, doing work, chatting with friends, making mods and everything else you are of course going to be in the area where consoles are more efficient in terms of cash: but then so would you be if you bought every console on the market in a similar over-the-top spending spree.

I can browse the internet and chat with friends on my cell phone or an XBox with a mod chip if I want to. The work I do on the computer does not require a beast of a PC, unlike the modern games I like to play. I could build a computer that could easily handle all of my non-gaming purposes for less than $400 including the monitor, mouse, and keyboard... probably less than $300 if I look in more than one place for the parts.

Fine, tack that money onto the cost of an XBox if you want to make the comparison more fair... why not throw in a PS2 and a GameCube while you're at it. It's still several hundred dollars less than the cost of a good gaming rig. It would also give me separate machines for work and play. I could play games or movies on the console while the computer is compiling maps, rendering complex images, compiling code, etc... or I could keep playing when someone else wants to do research, homework, chatting, etc.

If you build a PC for $1000 at the same time a console is being released it is going to be much less powerful than the console (as consoles almost always stay ahead of even the fastest gaming PCs for several months or more after their introduction). Combine that with the fact that modern games keep putting more strain on the PC as each newer, better part becomes available (console games are always made to work perfectly on your exact hardware configuration... and as a console ages developers can get more impressive graphics out of it without needing more power) and the longevity of the $1000 PC is considerably worse than the $200 console.

theres something about the feel of sitting a mere foot in front of a 21" monitor with a mouse and keyboard, that I could never get from sitting 5-6 feet from a tv screen with controller. . . I've just never felt comfortable using a console to game (at least for fps games, which is what i love).

If you like sitting close to a small screen buy a smaller TV and sit closer. Problem solved.

Again, if consoles had decent keyboard/mouse support I would play tons of FPS/RTS games on consoles.

Pc is a much bigger market and will always be

You are sadly mistaken, my friend.

The console gaming market is much larger than the PC gaming market... by almost a factor of 10!

I would hate to image playing starcraft on a n64 controler, thats just to crap for me. Or any other RTS for that matter. Tv's are very low res. And a good amount of console games can be emulated to the pc. And just about all the console controllers plus more can be used on the pc. Therefor pc's are better. You get a $2000 thousand pc, well thats gonna last you a while. Far longer than an Xbox would. Pc's are only growing. Pc is a much bigger market and will always be. Pc's are MUCH more games that are constantly coming out. And something that consoles don't have..

1. "Again, if consoles had decent keyboard/mouse support I would play tons of FPS/RTS games on consoles."
2. Only out-dated console games (N64 or PS1) can be emulated at playable speeds (and without lots of compatibility issues) on a PC.
3. A $2000 PC will not last longer than a $200 console if they are both new at the time of purchase.
4. The PC gaming market growth has been slowing down over the past few years.
5. Consoles get more games than PC's.
6. Look at any "100 Best Games of All Time" list and compare the number of console games to PC games.

 

[Varsity]

Make sure you're sitting comfortably for this one.

History shows the opposite of your statement. Consoles started with only games, then they could play music CDs, then they got online capabilities, then they could play DVD movies, then they got hard drives... and they will continue to assimilate popular gaming/multimedia-related features of computers. With each new addition to consoles they close the gap between console and computer... yet they still remain a fraction of the price of a comparably powerful PC. They keep getting more and more attractive in comparison to a high-end gaming PC.

I was referring to your statement that PC as a gaming platform would become less popular.

I prefer my widescreen HDTV to my CRT. It's not blurry or flickery. Your TV must suck.

You are in an extreme minority. How much do HDTVs cost anyway?

The "endless waves of rubbish titles" argument works for PC games even more than console games because you can legally rent the console games before you buy them (and for you pirates, yes, you can download and burn copies of console games) unlike PC games.

I don't understand. Are you saying that you can't rent games on a PC? That doesn't tie in with the first part of the sentence.

Console games are more varied than PC games. I'd bet that almost 75% of PC games are probably shooters or strategy games. If you skip consoles you're missing a lot. Most of the "greatest games of all time" are console games.

Let's have a look at the Game product listing. I'll look at the top selling charts, then take a random sample from the whole pool. The analysis is marked with asterisks if anyone doesn’t want to read all this data.

Top Sellers:
Soldiers: Heroes of World War II - RTS with lots of FPS elements
Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising - Tactical Shooter, practically MMORPG
Ground Control II: Operation Exodus - Action RTS (i.e., no base building + fully formed combat model)
Championship Manager 2003/2004 – Pure management
Call of Duty - Fairly standard shooter
Far Cry - ditto
Grand Theft Auto - Vice City - Console port
Thief Deadly Shadows - Sneak/beat/arrow 'em up. Let's say stealth.
Counter-Strike - Condition Zero - Tactical Shooter, ish.
The Sims Triple Deluxe – Management/RPG/bleh

***************************
So that gives us 5 root types of game (if we ignore the console ports, despite GTA being in a league of it’s own):

FPS, with 2 *distinct* subcategories
Management with 2 *distinct* subcategories
Strategy with 2 *distinct* subcategories
RPG
Stealth – 1 game

Those are most of the ones we see on the shelves. Now in the interest of balance with consoles I’ll do 10 random games from the A-Z List.

Civilization 3 – Turn-based strategy, it’s a board game on a massive scale really
Great British Diesel Locomotives – Simulation
Kreed – Mindless shooter. Here’s a crap title if I ever saw one.
(Pro Evolution Soccer 3 – Console port)
Terminator 3: War of the Machines – Online team-based shooter
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos – Polished to perfection but at the end of the day fairly standard
Yager – Some sort of combat flight sim, I don’t remember much about it
Lords of EverQuest – MMORPG
FightBox – TV tie-in/fighter

***************************
And that gives us 4 new categories:

Turn Based Strat – 1 Game
Simulation w/ 2 *distinct* subcategories
MMORPG
TV tie-in/fighter – 1 Game

So overall there are 9 genres from a brief skim of popular and random games, and among them 8 more sub-genres that make a large enough gap to be distinguishable.

Doing the same for consoles is hard because of the range of different systems but I’ll try anyway, taking every other of the top ten games from the popular PC-comparable and competing console platforms.

PS2:
Spiderman 2 – Film tie-in
Shrek 2 – ditto
Onimusha 3 – Fighter, doesn’t look like there’s any real game play past beating faster/more damaging AI and watching videos
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban – Film/Book tie-in
UEFA Euro 2004 Portugal – Sports

X-Box
Driv3r (Driver 3) – I hope I won’t have to argue about how shite this game is. Best bet is FPS.
Spider-Man 2 – Not really applicable given presence on PS2, but film tie-in
(Thief Deadly Shadows – PC Port)
Red Dead Revolver – Hurrah for Rockstar. This is a good’un.
Ninja Gaiden – Fighting

Gamecube
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour – Sport
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban – Film/Book Tie-in, see X-Box.
Phantasy Star Online Episode III: C.A.R.D. Revolution – MMOFPS (IIRC)
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes – Remake of another brilliant title. Stealth.
Sonic Mega Collection – Pure platformer. Didn’t include these the other post because they’re dying out fast.

***************************

OK, so there across the best of three platforms we have a total of six genres minus PC Ports, none with any distinct gameplay differences; save of course for the subject matter itself. It should be pointed out that three games alone double the total.

Tie-ins
Fighters
Sports – 1 game, surprisingly
Shooter
(PC Port – 1 game)
RPG
MMOFPS – 1 game
Platformer – 1 game


It looks like we are both wrong: there is roughly the same amount of variation.

I can browse the internet and chat with friends on my cell phone or an XBox with a mod chip if I want to. The work I do on the computer does not require a beast of a PC, unlike the modern games I like to play. I could build a computer that could easily handle all of my non-gaming purposes for less than $400 including the monitor, mouse, and keyboard... probably less than $300 if I look in more than one place for the parts.

Point was, if you’re going to have a computer anyway it’s better to kit it out a little than spend however much on a console and then again on the stuff that lets you do what your PC can already.

Fine, tack that money onto the cost of an XBox if you want to make the comparison more fair... why not throw in a PS2 and a GameCube while you're at it. It's still several hundred dollars less than the cost of a good gaming rig.

Several hundred? I can see maybe *a* hundred for a decent PC Gaming rig. Add a decent TV to the console basket (because you’re going to have a TV anyway, just like you’re going to have most of a gaming computer anyway) and it’s not very much at all.

It would also give me separate machines for work and play. I could play games or movies on the console while the computer is compiling maps, rendering complex images, compiling code, etc... or I could keep playing when someone else wants to do research, homework, chatting, etc.

True.

If you build a PC for $1000 at the same time a console is being released it is going to be much less powerful than the console (as consoles almost always stay ahead of even the fastest gaming PCs for several months or more after their introduction).

That’s true as well…but let’s just say I hope you never get into stock broking. I think the ‘staying ahead’ part for X-Box was a few weeks, given that it’s only advantage at the time was the now-lowly GeForce 3. Can’t speak for other consoles but I do feel that several months is an exaggeration.

Combine that with the fact that modern games keep putting more strain on the PC as each newer, better part becomes available (console games are always made to work perfectly on your exact hardware configuration... and as a console ages developers can get more impressive graphics out of it without needing more power) and the longevity of the $1000 PC is considerably worse than the $200 console.

Nobody is forcing you to use the highest settings – I mean, you can run UT2004 and Half-Life 2 (yes, Valve have said so) respectably on X-Box-equivalent hardware. And of course not all games coming out demand huge specs, Like CZ or adventure games.

 

[Varsity]

I've done five too many PC games, but it's too late to edit now. Here is the correction:

Those are most of the ones we see on the shelves. Now in the interest of balance with consoles I’ll do 5 random games from the A-Z List.

Civilization 3 – Turn-based strategy, it’s a board game on a massive scale really
Kreed – Mindless shooter. Here’s a crap title if I ever saw one.
Terminator 3: War of the Machines – Online team-based shooter
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos – Polished to perfection but at the end of the day fairly standard
Lords of EverQuest – MMORPG

***************************
And that gives us 2 new categories:

Turn Based Strat – 1 Game
Simulation w/ 2 *distinct* subcategories

So overall there are 7 genres from a brief skim of popular and random games (I’ve cut out two more to keep numbers even with the console games I looked at), and among them 8 more sub-genres that make a large enough gap to be distinguishable.

 

[Jack_Karverboy]

...and if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to ya.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of what I think are some of the most anticpated games for this upcoming fall/winter 2004 and early 2005. Good God - it's either feast or famine for PC gaming but what a feast it is! Some will be available on consoles as well. Make your wish lists now

Half Life 2
Call of Duty: United Offensive
Brothers-In-Arms
Rome: Total War
Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Dungeon Seige II
World of Warcraft
Sims 2 (yes I'll even include this one)
Doom 3
And in early 2005:
F.E.A.R.


Reports of the death of PC Gaming have been GREATLY exaggerated

These are the ones I'm getting, And i typed Doom 3(gettin it)

 

[OCybrManO]

I was referring to your statement that PC as a gaming platform would become less popular.

Unless people have more money to spend, when interest in console gaming goes up in comparison to interest in PC gaming... PC sales will have to suffer. That's the logic my statement was following.

I don't understand. Are you saying that you can't rent games on a PC? That doesn't tie in with the first part of the sentence.

There are proportionately equal amounts of crap games on consoles and PCs. The reason that it affects PC users more is that we don't have any legal way to try the game before we decide to buy it (unless the developer releases a demo, but even that can be misleading). PC users have to rely on other people's opinions of a game whereas console users can drive over to Blockbuster and test the game out for a week.

You are in an extreme minority. How much do HDTVs cost anyway?

The HDTV is the family TV ($2000, but it is 51"), most of the time I play on a little, old 15" TV sitting next to my monitor. It doesn't flicker and it's not blurry. Anyway, I'm not discussing the gaming PC ceasing to exist in the next few years. It's going to be a gradual process. I'm talking about when HD is considered standard (or even low quality), when consoles have a controller that equals keyboard & mouse in RTS/FPS games, and when console games are moddable. Beyond that point (unless the PC pulls an ace out of its sleeve) the gaming PC's fate looks grim.

Several hundred? I can see maybe *a* hundred for a decent PC Gaming rig. Add a decent TV to the console basket (because you?re going to have a TV anyway, just like you?re going to have most of a gaming computer anyway) and it?s not very much at all.

Yeah, it's not a huge difference anymore, but that's considering that you plan on buying three consoles and a work computer... and that you don't own a TV already.

That?s true as well?but let?s just say I hope you never get into stock broking. I think the ?staying ahead? part for X-Box was a few weeks, given that it?s only advantage at the time was the now-lowly GeForce 3. Can?t speak for other consoles but I do feel that several months is an exaggeration.

1. I think you're exaggerating the speed at which new PC components get made.
2. The XBox's GPU was a highly customized GeForce 3 that performed closer to the level of a GeForce 4.
3. Also, consoles are extremely stripped down in their design to get maximum performance out of the hardware unlike a PC running a full, bloated Windows OS... so, a PC with the same specs as an XBox would be a bit slower.

Top Sellers:
Soldiers: Heroes of World War II - RTS with lots of FPS elements
Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising - Tactical Shooter, practically MMORPG
Ground Control II: Operation Exodus - Action RTS (i.e., no base building + fully formed combat model)
Championship Manager 2003/2004 ? Pure management
Call of Duty - Fairly standard shooter
Far Cry - ditto
Grand Theft Auto - Vice City - Console port
Thief Deadly Shadows - Sneak/beat/arrow 'em up. Let's say stealth.
Counter-Strike - Condition Zero - Tactical Shooter, ish.
The Sims Triple Deluxe ? Management/RPG/bleh

Eight of those (almost perfectly fits what I had estimated) are RTS/TBS, FPS/TPS, or a combination of the two. The remaining two happen to function best with a keyboard and mouse.

Civilization 3 ? Turn-based strategy, it?s a board game on a massive scale really
Great British Diesel Locomotives ? Simulation
Kreed ? Mindless shooter. Here?s a crap title if I ever saw one.
(Pro Evolution Soccer 3 ? Console port)
Terminator 3: War of the Machines ? Online team-based shooter
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos ? Polished to perfection but at the end of the day fairly standard
Yager ? Some sort of combat flight sim, I don?t remember much about it
Lords of EverQuest ? MMORPG
FightBox ? TV tie-in/fighter

About half of these fit into my stereotype of PC games... but seven of them sound like they are meant to be played with a keyboard and mouse.

So, 17 of the 20 PC games are ones that, in practice, play better with a keyboard and mouse... fascinating. That sounds like what I've been trying to say. :E

The games that survive on the PC are the ones that happen to function best with the controllers that come with every PC.

 

[Varsity]

Unless people have more money to spend, when interest in console gaming goes up in comparison to interest in PC gaming... PC sales will have to suffer. That's the logic my statement was following.

PC game sales, you mean? I still contest your point though: the price gap between PC and Console has always remained stable.

There are proportionately equal amounts of crap games on consoles and PCs.

It's a matter of opinion, but when I look at the mainstream games avaliable for consoles, and then for PCs, it gets a little one sided IMO. God knows how many backstreet console titles there are that never get shown to the browsing public. I see what you are saying with the rest of that para - that's what magazines are for. Not sure how much it is to rent games, but given the sheer number of reviews in a magazine it's got to be more efficient reading than renting. That is assuming you can find a mag you fell the same way as enough of the time.

I'm talking about when HD is considered standard (or even low quality), when consoles have a controller that equals keyboard & mouse in RTS/FPS games, and when console games are moddable. Beyond that point (unless the PC pulls an ace out of its sleeve) the gaming PC's fate looks grim.

Both systems have and will evolve indefinitely. I'm sure one day there will be a console that lets you upgrade it with any hardware you want, too - but will it actually be a *console*?

1. I think you're exaggerating the speed at which new PC components get made.
2. The XBox's GPU was a highly customized GeForce 3 that performed closer to the level of a GeForce 4.
3. Also, consoles are extremely stripped down in their design to get maximum performance out of the hardware unlike a PC running a full, bloated Windows OS... so, a PC with the same specs as an XBox would be a bit slower.

1. Is that even possible? Really, I'm not.
2. I'm pretty sure it was just a standard GF3...whatever.
3. A fair bit slower actually. I've tried to take that into account with my estimates.

Eight of those (almost perfectly fits what I had estimated) are RTS/TBS, FPS/TPS, or a combination of the two. The remaining two happen to function best with a keyboard and mouse.

You can't really compare Civ3 with Red Alert, or Painkiller with Rainbow Six. They are four seperate types of game.

And then there are the Black & Whites, that have nothing even remotely like them elsewhere.

About half of these fit into my stereotype of PC games...

And about all of the console games fit into my stereotype for them!

but seven of them sound like they are meant to be played with a keyboard and mouse.

So, 17 of the 20 PC games are ones that, in practice, play better with a keyboard and mouse... fascinating. That sounds like what I've been trying to say. :E

Is it? I would never have been able to tell from your phraseology. Sounded like you were just pointing out that the one real weakness of a console system was the low usage of mouse/keyboard.

The games that survive on the PC are the ones that happen to function best with the controllers that come with every PC.

Ditto consoles. The games best suited to the platform survive on it. Perfectly logical. Darwin would approve.

 

[Seppo]

This is interesting. You guys sure know a lot about the gaming industry.