Penn & Teller on Creationism

[Nemesis6]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OR-SSAUeD7M&feature=PlayList&p=A71A202ECA89F6A9&index=0

It's best to click the video so it opens in youtube instead of playing it imbedded. Now, when you're done with the first, you can find the next two parts on the sidebar to the right, below the one highlighted in yellow. So, where do they nail it, where could have done it better?

I believe it's hard to properly nail Creationism, because it's just so basic bullshit that you can use time to dismiss it, pointing out all the flaws, but in the end, you have lost the argument because you have spent so much time disproving something that is obviously not true. Believe me, I know. It's always this story with "religious dogma" as Pat Condell puts it, if you'll excuse me bringing that old git into this!

 

[Krynn72]

How did you type the whole thing as a fake link?


EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[Acepilotf14]

PLEASE STOP WITH EVERY THREAD ON CREATIONISM, STOP IT YOU ****ING ****TARDS. ALL THESE THREADS ARE POINTLESS AND DIVULGE INTO MINDLESS SLUGFESTS AND YOU ARE ****ING PUSSY. KRYNN'S COMMENT RIGHT THERE WILL LIKELY BE THE MOST SANE THING SAID IN THIS THREAD, AND IT WAS PRETTY CRAZY YOU ****TARD. STOP IT. BAN. PLZ.
BASTARD.
l

 

[JFry]

*slowly inches towards the door*

 

[Krynn72]

*gasp*

You broke the no caps rule!

BAN!

 

[Acepilotf14]

When did this rule come into existance?
I want quotes here.

 

[jverne]

PLEASE STOP WITH EVERY THREAD ON CREATIONISM, STOP IT YOU ****ING ****TARDS. ALL THESE THREADS ARE POINTLESS AND DIVULGE INTO MINDLESS SLUGFESTS AND YOU ARE ****ING PUSSY. KRYNN'S COMMENT RIGHT THERE WILL LIKELY BE THE MOST SANE THING SAID IN THIS THREAD, AND IT WAS PRETTY CRAZY YOU ****TARD. STOP IT. BAN. PLZ.
BASTARD.
l

you know what they say...if you don't like it.....stick a dildo up your ass.



edit: oh yea forgot to comment on the show. it was nice but i felt it didn't went into details too much.

 

[soulslicer]

I hate creationists. Every sane person who has undergone basic schooling will realize that that is utter crap, and deep down, despite having been brain-washed by his religion on creationism, he knows the truth. That is how it is for post educated people so yeah, thank god (pun not intended)

 

[Absinthe]

Haha... foam at the mouth, ****tard reaction.

Arguments about god and arguments about creationism, while related, really are two separate things.

Creationism is unequivocally stupid, even to a lot of theists.

 

[Gray Fox]

You poor deluded godless atheists, and your wacky fairy tale of
evolution. No wonder you're all so hateful and ignorant.
But don't worry I'll pray for your souls.

 

[15357]

How do you type like that?

 

[Stigmata]

You poor deluded godless atheists, and your wacky fairy tale of
evolution. No wonder you're all so hateful and ignorant.
But don't worry I'll pray for your souls.

 

[theotherguy]

PLEASE STOP WITH EVERY THREAD ON CREATIONISM, STOP IT YOU ****ING ****TARDS. ALL THESE THREADS ARE POINTLESS AND DIVULGE INTO MINDLESS SLUGFESTS AND YOU ARE ****ING PUSSY. KRYNN'S COMMENT RIGHT THERE WILL LIKELY BE THE MOST SANE THING SAID IN THIS THREAD, AND IT WAS PRETTY CRAZY YOU ****TARD. STOP IT. BAN. PLZ.
BASTARD.
l

And other political discussions don't?

You don't like the politics forum, gtfo.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

PLEASE STOP WITH EVERY THREAD ON CREATIONISM, STOP IT YOU ****ING ****TARDS. ALL THESE THREADS ARE POINTLESS AND DIVULGE INTO MINDLESS SLUGFESTS AND YOU ARE ****ING PUSSY. KRYNN'S COMMENT RIGHT THERE WILL LIKELY BE THE MOST SANE THING SAID IN THIS THREAD, AND IT WAS PRETTY CRAZY YOU ****TARD. STOP IT. BAN. PLZ.
BASTARD.
l

Nobody is forcing you to enter politics. There are plenty of people from both sides here in politics, and if you are not going to debate, please leave.

 

[jverne]

Nobody is forcing you to enter politics. There are plenty of people from both sides here in politics, and if you are not going to debate, please stick a dildo up your ass.

fixt :O

 

[DEATH eVADER]

I'm not going to debate whether or not Jesus did or did not exist, but I'll just mention that The Old Testement cannot be trusted. The reson being is the English text (Not sure if the original text was different) just feels like it has been written by an adolescent teenager. If the story of creationism is in fact right there, then I have to say it is rather boring

The story of Creationism might be true, but the Old Testement doesn't necessarily give details on what happened, why it happened, so I cannot conclude on its authenticity. Seriously if I see one more sentence finishing with, "and God saw that it was good. " I 'll eat my hat.

I do find this interesting though

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 

[delusional]

I'm not going to debate whether or not Jesus did or did not exist, but I'll just mention that The Old Testement cannot be trusted. The reson being is the English text (Not sure if the original text was different) just feels like it has been written by an adolescent teenager. If the story of creationism is in fact right there, then I have to say it is rather boring

The story of Creationism might be true, but the Old Testement doesn't necessarily give details on what happened, why it happened, so I cannot conclude on its authenticity. Seriously if I see one more sentence finishing with, "and God saw that it was good. " I 'll eat my hat.

I do find this interesting though

I'm pretty sure the biblical creation story is an allegory for pregnancy and birth.

 

[Kadayi]

Despite being an atheist I get pretty ****ed off with the relentless bashing that goes on in these forums, it's pretty tiresome and quite frankly pointless because no one here at halflife2.net is a raging creationist as far as I'm aware, and it's creationists who are the problem, not christians per se. Go debate the matter on some creationist forums if you want to achieve anything (you might make some of them realise that their beliefs are misguided), continually pissing in our ears about how bad/evil/deluded they are on these pages on this forum is a complete waste of time.

 

[Nemesis6]

Well, Creationism is becoming quite an issue in the U.S, and it doesn't matter if there are Creationists here or not, it's still a topic to be discussed, EVEN IF SOMEONE THINKS HE'S COOL BY TYPING IN CAPS AND THEN WONDERING WHY TOPICS ABOUT CREATIONISM ALWAYS DEGENERATE!!!!!1111toughguyontehinternet

One thing that surprised me was the fact that they're actually trying to lump Creationism in with valid science. It's just absurd, but I have to hand it to them: They did a hell of a job by doing the "it's not about God!" bit with a straight face, and then actually getting it through. By the way, I love the redneck in the woodcutter shirt and overalls shouting incoherent psychobabble. Also, at the end of part one - Look at that smug-faced guy rationalizing parents telling their kids what to believe. Ugh...

 

[Tyguy]

Despite being an atheist I get pretty ****ed off with the relentless bashing that goes on in these forums, it's pretty tiresome and quite frankly pointless because no one here at halflife2.net is a raging creationist as far as I'm aware, and it's creationists who are the problem, not christians per se. Go debate the matter on some creationist forums if you want to achieve anything (you might make some of them realise that their beliefs are misguided), continually pissing in our ears about how bad/evil/deluded they are on these pages on this forum is a complete waste of time.

Why don't you just ignore the threads then?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Why don't you just ignore the threads then?

If you don't like his input then why not ignore it?

 

[Tyguy]

If you don't like his input then why not ignore it?

I don't recall ever complaining about his posts, I just asked a very simple question. If you don't like discussing creationism, why enter a topic about creationism? The people who get annoyed at these discussions are the same people who derail them every time, making it viable for an additional topic, to which the same people come in and whine. Just IGNORE it :rolling:

 

[Eejit]

No arguments I haven't heard before from either side.

Shouldn't even be a debate, bloody-minded hicks ftl.

 

[Kadayi]

Why don't you just ignore the threads then?

Because being a moderate atheist I think it's important to make sure that the fundamentalist atheist position isn't the sole one presented.

 

[Raziaar]

It's now down to finding which threads aren't about religion, than which threads are about religion. We need a sub forum, because seriously this is ridiculous.

 

[Gray Fox]

Because being a moderate atheist I think it's important to make sure that the fundamentalist atheist position isn't the sole one presented.

But moderates like you legitimize, and present a false view
of the dangerous underlying believes of true atheists.
You provide cover for the ridiculous and barbaric views of
fundamental atheists.
Your position is in essence as bad and illogical as theirs.

But don't worry next mass I'll say a quick prayer for you.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

...

 

[Stigmata]

dangerous underlying believes of true atheists

Outline all of these dangerous underlying beliefs in your next post, with concrete evidence supporting how and why the beliefs are dangerous, and why religious views are superior, or I will disregard everything you have to say on this or any related subject in the future.

Seriously. I'm tired of people giving cop-out responses.

 

[Eejit]

Outline all of these dangerous underlying beliefs in your next post, with concrete evidence supporting how and why the beliefs are dangerous, and why religious views are superior, or I will disregard everything you have to say on this or any related subject in the future.

Seriously. I'm tired of people giving cop-out responses.

l2recognisejokes.

 

[Kyorisu]

But moderates like you legitimize, and present a false view
of the dangerous underlying believes of true atheists.
You provide cover for the ridiculous and barbaric views of
fundamental atheists.
Your position is in essence as bad and illogical as theirs.

But don't worry next mass I'll say a quick prayer for you.

Keep writing posts in that format and I will have to punch you through the Internet.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Because being a moderate atheist I think it's important to make sure that the fundamentalist atheist position isn't the sole one presented.

Well, "hardline" atheist would be a far better term. Atheism has one fundamental belief, and that is that there is no god. So technically every atheist is a fundamentalist.

So yeah, hardline would be better.

 

[Tyguy]

I appreciate a claim by sam harris that the term atheist shouldn't really exist. You don't have words for people that do not believe in astrology, so why have a word that describes a person who doesn't believe in god?

Moderate atheism seems kind of like a waste of words...

 

[CptStern]

agreed, hate it when people say "aethists believe .." ..how is lack of belief a belief system? it's just what religious people calll non religious people in an attempt to lump them all together as a means of deflating their ideology ... "the atheists are trying to stop religion" ...for the most part non religious people dont give two shits what religious people do ..unless it affects them in some way, either directly or indirectly

 

[Raziaar]

I hear atheists describe themselves as such all the time, as if they were one large group of people. So I don't think it's just the other people responsible for applying that label.

 

[CptStern]

who are these atheists? I'm surrounded by athesits and we dont call outrselves a group ..we dont worship our ideology of nothingness ..in fact the only time we're ever together ideologically speaking is when the religious gives us a reason to

 

[Raziaar]

who are these atheists? I'm surrounded by athesits and we dont call outrselves a group ..we dont worship our ideology of nothingness ..in fact the only time we're ever together ideologically speaking is when the religious gives us a reason to

I'm talking about people who identify themselves as being "an atheist". And often collectively speak about 'atheists'. It's just something I observed, I'm not going to go search for anything because there's no need. I just know these forums are one example where it's prevalent.

 

[CptStern]

I identify myself as atheist, correction, I identify myself as someone who doesnt believe in organised religion ..does that make me atheist? I dont know because the only real defining characteristic is non-belief ..and I dont collectively call people who share my disbelief of fairy tales as atheists ..rationalists/the clear headed/the non-stupid perhaps but I dont identify people by whether they dont believe in god or not ..I guess the separation is more at the religious level ..as in: religious and non-religious

 

[Kadayi]

I identify myself as atheist, correction, I identify myself as someone who doesnt believe in organised religion ..does that make me atheist? I dont know because the only real defining characteristic is non-belief ..and I dont collectively call people who share my disbelief of fairy tales as atheists ..rationalists/the clear headed/the non-stupid perhaps but I dont identify people by whether they dont believe in god or not ..I guess the separation is more at the religious level ..as in: religious and non-religious

That's a fair point, but the fact of the matter is that there is a movement that exists that is a lot less inclined to say 'I don't share your belief system' and more inclined to say 'You are wrong and your beliefs are FALSE!!!'. Now I don't personally go out of my way to force my opinions onto others regarding faith, however if someone were to ask me my opinions I'd answer truthfully, and give them my rationale as to why I don't believe in a god if they want to know.

Well, "hardline" atheist would be a far better term. Atheism has one fundamental belief, and that is that there is no god. So technically every atheist is a fundamentalist.

I think it's completely valid to thing to oppose the intelligent design promotors/creationists from attempting to gain a foothold in the state school system, as they are trying to do in the video, because religion and state should be separate entities (the state should always be secular). There is nothing stopping them from setting up their own private schools if they wish, where they can bring their children up according to their beliefs. There are plenty of private schools out there that have religious ties. If the creationists want to make one, that's their right. They are still going to have to teach curriculum subjects (including all the sciences), and are still going to have to meet school standards. However wacked out their beliefs, I don't think in a free society they can be denied that opportunity.

However I don't believe that it's necessary to gun after people simply because their belief system differs from yours, or that you don't think their beliefs are valid. Where you aggressively force your opinions upon others, whether you are a Muslim, a Christian or an Atheist is fundamentalist behaviour, not hardline.

 

[theotherguy]

Well, "hardline" atheist would be a far better term. Atheism has one fundamental belief, and that is that there is no god. So technically every atheist is a fundamentalist.

So yeah, hardline would be better.

That's completely untrue.

An atheist is someone who has no belief in a particular god. Babies are atheists. Rocks are atheists. Christians are atheists (of Thor, Jupiter, Ra, etc. mind you)

A fundamentalist is specifically one who believes in the fundamental "truths" about their particular religion, and demands that all elements of culture revolve around this central, fundamental belief.

They couldn't be more polar opposites.

 

[theotherguy]

Because being a moderate atheist I think it's important to make sure that the fundamentalist atheist position isn't the sole one presented.

There is no such thing as a moderate or "fundamentalist" atheist. There are only atheists and theists, gnostic and agnostics. Most atheists are agnostic atheists. I doubt that anyone here claims to be a gnostic atheist.

I think what you refer to are active and passive atheists.