pentagon contract ban

Originally posted by OCybrManO
I'm bored. Here are some other suggestions for the name of the new party:

"Republicals" - (Republican Liberals)
"Democravitives" - (Democratic Conservatives)
"Demublicraticans" - (Democratically Republicanistic Democratic-Republicans)
"Libonservocratipublicans" - (Liberally Conservative Democratic-Republicans)
"Concraserblicals" - (Conservative Democratic-Republican Liberals)
"Remocravatals" - (Republican Democratic Conservative Liberals)
Click to expand...

lol :cheese:
 
Originally posted by Maskirovka
you missed the point completely. i wasn't saying all of those things were bad.

you seem to be the type of person who loves to ignore the real point and prove someone wrong by tearing apart the portion of their argument that had the least significance.
Click to expand...

The other part takes alot of effort. I dont have much effort to spread around.
 
Originally posted by OCybrManO
You're right, I forgot FOX has a cable news show in addition to tons of local stations. That just makes it bigger and more influential. Thanks for reminding me.

I haven't actually looked into it, but FOX says that it is the network most watched for political news in the entire nation. I would say that gives them quite a bit of influence if it is true.

If you are set in your ways as a conservative you probably won't see anything wrong with their news (because it's what you want to hear) but if you do a little bit of research they take all kinds of things out of context, put positive spins on anything that would benefit conservatives, belittle anything positive done by liberals, and sometimes just come right out and blatantly lie. It disheartens me that probably the most influential news giant does this kind of stuff. This is why I usually watch both sides and when they conflict (which is far too often) I look to other sources. Don't get me wrong... there are plenty of dirty liberals and liberal extremists, as well. Both sides are politicians at heart, so you have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

I wish everyone could meet on some common ground, but everyone has such varied opinions. We are a nation divided against ourselves. It will take a lot of work to get it all sorted out... though, the problem remains that not many people are willing to put forth the effort.
Click to expand...

I personally only watch Hannity & colmes, and The Factor, first off Bill O'riely isnt on either side, he condemns all that he thinks is wrong, and applaudes those who do good, Hannity and colmes is a demo, and republican show, each member gets equal time to bring up thier points. i dont see how that is a "Conservetive controlled station" I also wanted to point out that alot of shows that fox puts on thier non-news station is appauling to a lot of conservetives.
 
Originally posted by waedoe
I personally only watch Hannity & colmes, and The Factor, first off Bill O'riely isnt on either side, he condemns all that he thinks is wrong, and applaudes those who do good, Hannity and colmes is a demo, and republican show, each member gets equal time to bring up thier points. i dont see how that is a "Conservetive controlled station" I also wanted to point out that alot of shows that fox puts on thier non-news station is appauling to a lot of conservetives.
Click to expand...
yeah, you need some exposure to other news outlets. fnc is controlled by roger ailes. look him up, for years he was the most fanatic GOP bulldog; a political operative in washington, and veteran of the nixon, reagan and bush campaigns, and he produced limbaugh's short-lived tv show in the the 90's. look down the roster, tony snow, brit hume, sean hannity, anne coulter, etc., they're all veteran neo-cons. it's always fun to point out that coulter is such a psycho that she was released by the 'national review', a conservative political magazine. the few 'liberals' on the network, including juan williams and alan colmes, appear (to me) to be carefully selected to be slightly left-of-center and rather weak personalities. i mean colmes is a self-described 'moderate', and was hand picked as a tv opponent by hannity, an arch-conservative if ever there was one. that conservative (yes, he is) o'reilly is the one pundit to be held up as some sort of independant speaks volumes in and of itself. o'reilly has ties to the GOP, has spoken at GOP fundraisers, etc.

that you can't turn on fnc without hearing "fair & balanced" about a hundred times should be a clue. usually if you're so adamant and protective about something (remember, they tried to sue to stop al franken from using the words "fair and balanced" in his book), it probably means you're trying to hide something.

i'd be fine with them if they'd just admit that they're a conservative organisation. their roster is hard to argue with to me. btw, please don't claim there are no conservative at cnn; see bob novak, tucker carlson, pat buchanan, & formerly mary matlin, john sununu and (gasp) lynne cheney.

it's funny that you point out fox's non-news programming. i take this as an indication that fox is about selling sensationalism to the lowest common denominator, b/c that's where the money is.. hmm.. which programming are we talking about again?

edit: grammar
 
the question isn't whether or not US companies should be making money off of US contracts. the question is about the free-market and open compewtition in these contracts. sure there are lots of other countries that can compete, but i'm very interested to see how the competition goes. also, that three countries that actually have experience in the region are excluded is troublesome to me, as i mentioned in an earlier post. but the main concern is how many enemies this administration likes to make overseas. it's a concern for the future, and we'll just have to wait and see how cooperative and stable the quadripolar we're setting up is going to be.
 
Originally posted by shiv
not back stabbing surrender monkies like the french.
Click to expand...
Ehhm...right...back-stabbing? The french have backstabed the United States? When? Were? What? Whadya mean backstab?

Oh yes, and it was really awful of the French to surrender in the face of superior military power to save the lives of their soldiers and civilians.
Horrible thing for the French gov to do....or not:dozey:
And, if I'm not completely misinformed, the French Resistance movements did quite a good job of fighting back, even after France surrendered?
I think it's safe to say that the French fought and suffered just as much as the US during WW2, if not more.
 
Originally posted by [CoHn]FuSeD
Ehhm...right...back-stabbing? The french have backstabed the United States? When? Were? What? Whadya mean backstab?

Oh yes, and it was really awful of the French to surrender in the face of superior military power to save the lives of their soldiers and civilians.
Horrible thing for the French gov to do....or not:dozey:
And, if I'm not completely misinformed, the French Resistance movements did quite a good job of fighting back, even after France surrendered?
I think it's safe to say that the French fought and suffered just as much as the US during WW2, if not more.
Click to expand...


oh please.....americans take so much shit from everyone......
you can dish out the insults but you cant take them aye?
 
Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
the question isn't whether or not US companies should be making money off of US contracts. the question is about the free-market and open compewtition in these contracts.
Click to expand...

good job bringing out the real issue here..and you also did a good job telling waedoe what's what about some of the news agencies from a fairly neutral standpoint.

honestly, the only people who seem to defend fox news, saying it's neutral, are conservatives :\

bill o'reilly is defenitely conservative....he's always attacking the ACLU (which, admittedly is about as liberal as it gets) for whatever suit they're currently bringing...no matter what it is.

here's his bio, which confirms that he was hired by ailes :\
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155,00.html

http://www.billoreilly.com/currentarticle
and there's an article he wrote about how americans "won" against abercrombie and fitch by making them stop printing their catalog.

The secular New York Times described the situation using the same tactic it did during the Reagan movie drama. The controversy was generated by "conservatives," those kill joy pessimists who want to ruin all the fun.

......

Here's proof that regular Americans have had enough. A new Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll says that 87% of Americans approve of Nativity scenes being displayed on public property during Christmas. Perhaps that's because the federal holiday of Christmas honors the birth of Jesus so there might be some context here.
Click to expand...

please...all that poll says is that 87% of Fox viewers who were watching TV while they did that poll and bothered to go to their computers and click a button think that.

but conservatives read that and say...see? 87% of americans want nativity scenes...we're right!

if you read that and other parts, there's no denying that he's a conservative.

==========================

enough about bill, the real question is, are we really in it for the Iraqis if we're so worried about the french and russians getting a piece of the pie? well it's not a freakin pie. these are people's lives. and if the french or russians can do the job better, then they deserve the chance to say "we can rebuild this aspect of Iraq more cheaply than you can" which is the point of a bid.

this whole ban on non-coalition countries is just a bad diplomatic choice. he's sending diplomats to russia, germany, and france to try to convince them to help us out in Iraq, while at the same time he's saying, "fck you for not helping us...contribute troops or you get nothing."

it's just the wrong way to do it :\
 
The US doesnt own Iraq what gives them the right to say what countries and companies can go in and out of Iraq. The Iraq people should have the right to decide.
 
Originally posted by kickass2009
The US doesnt own Iraq what gives them the right to say what countries and companies can go in and out of Iraq. The Iraq people should have the right to decide.
Click to expand...

becuase we are sacrificing our lives and spending our money(along with brits, aussys and spanards ect)

the US occupys iraq....wether its right or not...we do for the moment own/control iraq.

.....if there is something other than freedom in iraq to be gained from all of this ...we and the iraqi people should gain it....

when iraq is completly self-sufficiant ...they can do what they want.


if your nation were sending your brothers,mothers sons and duaghters in harms way then you would feel the same.


....btw ...im not debating wether the war was/is right or wrong...im just saying why i think we can/are deciding these things...
 
Guess what CNN just reported.. "Halliburton, vice president dick cheney's former company over charged the US 61 million dollars for fuel in iraq" I'll try to find an article online real quick so you guys will know i'm not lying, brb

EDIT: here you go:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20031211_2133.html
or if you prefer a little spin :)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105509,00.html
Actually both stories are pretty close, but fox news really tries to hammer it in that its not haliburtons fault and that vp cheney isn't connected nor was it a political move to award them the contract... all in all pretty disturbing considering us tax payers are footing the bill for this "mistake" i wish i could afford to make 61 million dollar mistakes, don't you?
 
Heh this looks like a corker of a thread. I'm going to enjoy reading this all tomorrow.
 
Hello, my name is dick chaney, and i needed to give that contract to haliburton because they helped me get to this position, so now i have to pay them back, and if they overcharge us, thats ok too

/sarcasm
 
Originally posted by MaxiKana
Hello, my name is dick chaney, and i needed to give that contract to haliburton because they helped me get to this position, so now i have to pay them back, and if they overcharge us, thats ok too

/sarcasm
Click to expand...

it's true...i mean...cheney stepped down from his position at halliburton directly into his running mate position on Bush's campaign...and now they have a no-bid contract with the bush administration and Cheney had NOTHING to do with it??? hell, cheney might've done it just to help some buddies at halliburton...sure that's not a political motive...so you can say "i had no political motive for doing it." but they expect us to believe that cheney didn't even say "hey george...let's give halliburton the contract cause those guys are good guys."

do they expect us to believe that? seriously?

and after all this halliburton crap, they expect us to believe that all the bidding rules will be completely fair when they start giving out the contracts in Iraq? uh...i know i don't believe it :\
 
Originally posted by Maskirovka
good job bringing out the real issue here..and you also did a good job telling waedoe what's what about some of the news agencies from a fairly neutral standpoint.

honestly, the only people who seem to defend fox news, saying it's neutral, are conservatives :\

bill o'reilly is defenitely conservative....he's always attacking the ACLU (which, admittedly is about as liberal as it gets) for whatever suit they're currently bringing...no matter what it is.

here's his bio, which confirms that he was hired by ailes :\
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155,00.html

http://www.billoreilly.com/currentarticle
and there's an article he wrote about how americans "won" against abercrombie and fitch by making them stop printing their catalog.



please...all that poll says is that 87% of Fox viewers who were watching TV while they did that poll and bothered to go to their computers and click a button think that.

but conservatives read that and say...see? 87% of americans want nativity scenes...we're right!

if you read that and other parts, there's no denying that he's a conservative.

==========================

enough about bill, the real question is, are we really in it for the Iraqis if we're so worried about the french and russians getting a piece of the pie? well it's not a freakin pie. these are people's lives. and if the french or russians can do the job better, then they deserve the chance to say "we can rebuild this aspect of Iraq more cheaply than you can" which is the point of a bid.

this whole ban on non-coalition countries is just a bad diplomatic choice. he's sending diplomats to russia, germany, and france to try to convince them to help us out in Iraq, while at the same time he's saying, "fck you for not helping us...contribute troops or you get nothing."

it's just the wrong way to do it :\
Click to expand...

I never denied that Bill O'rielly wasnt a conservetive, i said that the fox news network isnt conservitive. On the other hand ill get you some facts where he goes against the conservitives.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105574,00.html
 
Originally posted by crabcakes66
oh please.....americans take so much shit from everyone......
you can dish out the insults but you cant take them aye?
Click to expand...
But, why should one take shit that's not true? I was merely stating that the French havn't backstabbed the USA, and that they had their reasons for surrendering during WW2...
But sure, if you can tell me how and when the French backstabbed the USA, and why surrendering made them monkies, I will be more than happy to revoke my previous statements =) :cheers:
 
Originally posted by waedoe
I never denied that Bill O'rielly wasnt a conservetive, i said that the fox news network isnt conservitive. On the other hand ill get you some facts where he goes against the conservitives.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105574,00.html
Click to expand...

of course everyone swings this way and that...i have some conservative views, but overall i find myself voting democrat more often...in fact if howard dean gets the democratic nomination, i'll vote for bush.

but no, sorry...the fox news network is conservative overall. they throw that "fair and balanced: crap in your face constantly and then they have a bunch of conservatives doing their analysis shows.

maybe their regular run of the mill news reporting isn't conservative, but virtually all of their analysis shows are...like timmy pointed out...just look at the long list of conservatives who host the shows and also look at who owns the company and consider the fact that he hand-picked the hosts.

please stop trying to say that fox doesn't have a conservative spin...you're just wrong...the only people who think fox has no spin are conservatives...

all news agencies have spin...it's not like i'm insulting fox. i just think it's bad for you to only watch certain shows or a certain network. if you watch CNN, MSNBC, and fox...and THINK while you're watching them...AND get some news from outside the country from places like the BBC, you'll get a pretty good look at most of the angles on a story.
 
Originally posted by [CoHn]FuSeD
But, why should one take shit that's not true? I was merely stating that the French havn't backstabbed the USA, and that they had their reasons for surrendering during WW2...
But sure, if you can tell me how and when the French backstabbed the USA, and why surrendering made them monkies, I will be more than happy to revoke my previous statements =) :cheers:
Click to expand...

guys...the point here is...these contracts are going to be given out by Iraqis.

IRAQIS should be the ones who choose what companies should get the contracts and from where. if they want the french to help rebuild their country, then let them. we're trying to build a democracy over there and at the same time we're telling them who can and can't help rebulid their country.

if they agree that only countries who helped get rid of saddam should be allowed to bid on the contracts then fine! that's THEIR choice and we don't end up looking like assholes by excluding everyone...then it's the Iraqis who are doing the excluding and france and germany can be mad at them and not us!
 
Originally posted by [CoHn]FuSeD
But, why should one take shit that's not true? I was merely stating that the French havn't backstabbed the USA, and that they had their reasons for surrendering during WW2...
But sure, if you can tell me how and when the French backstabbed the USA, and why surrendering made them monkies, I will be more than happy to revoke my previous statements =) :cheers:
Click to expand...


my point is that when americans make stupid french jokes and such(not that this was one was a joke but most are) we are evil, ignorant ect.

but its ok for others to trash the USA without penalty
 
This makes me sad. I hope you realize that the people who make comments like "all gays should be shot", "homosexuality is a crime against nature/church" etc are generally the same people who have opinions such as yours about foreign countries?

I still feel bad about your brother, and I guess being open-minded in one area is better than none, but right now it seems that the only reason you oppose homophobia is because your brother was gay.

Tolerance isn't about specific issues, it's about your outlook on the world in general.
 
methane, wtf? that's another thread buddy. try to be more explict about your connection you drawing to pentagon contracts.. *leading by the hand*
 
LOL, good job Lil' Timmy.

I agree I was off topic and acting in poor taste.

Defending him calling the French "stabbing surrender monkies" just disappointed me. It upset me more b/c I really didn't think he would say something like that after reading his thoughts in the homosexual thread.

Still, I apoplogize to crabcakes.
 
methane, you have a good point about tolerance above, you should elaborate on that and leave discussions about homosexuality to the closed threads they reside in. that's why i said be more explicit about the connections you are trying to draw (the post sounded like you thought you were in a different thread).

crabcakes, i'm not sure i read you. usually it's americans who bring redicule upon themselves. 'surrender monkies' is funny, i make similar jokes often, but it's not serious of course, and i would make that explict to any french person. many people, though, are particularly vitriolic with this ludicrous joke. french people could understandably be a little defensive about it; we didn't have a nazi blitzkrieg in our backyard.
 
Oh, "him" should be "shiv" in my latest post...

Jesus, I should have stayed away from the forum tonight.

My thoughts are still the same though.

Thanks Timmy, I would have been sad to have have you think I was a complete moron.
 
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