per pixel hit accuracy?

[forn1x]

How do you know that Half-life 2 will not scare you or get you excited?

Of course it will make your heart jump for short periods of time when a headcrab comes out of nowhere and what not, but it's not going to make your heart go anywhere over 120 or anywhere around 120 for more than 2 seconds, due to that one exciting event.

Umm... I'm sure HL2 will have scary momments as HL1 had its own scary momments. While I agree its not crafted to be as scary as D3, I'm sure HL2 will make us jump a few times.

Jump yes, scare the shit outta you on a constant basis, no.

PS forn1x, not only is that very insulting, you're so far off the mark its unreal, don't go saying things like that until you have a basic grasp of whats going on, generally...

Do not attempt to flame me with pitiful remarks stating no evidence to back up or support what you say. My comment was perfectly factual in like I have said 3x in this post already, HL2 will make you jump but it isn't going to blast your heart rate through the roof, nor for extended amounts of time. That's not the point, it's supposed to be a flawless mixture of releasic physics and AI, and fun and exciting gameplay.

It seems like a common misconception of Half-life 2 is that it is not designed to scare you at all. I don't know about you but when a 40-foot Strider is chasing me down City-17 while running through a firefight between City militia and Combine, it seems pretty exciting and scary to me...

It isn't designed to scare you, it's not a misconception. Jumping moments sure, exhilarating and fun firefights, yes. Scaring you? No. Don't get me wrong, it's going to be really fun fighting along side an impressively coded AI and dodging lazers from a 40 ft strider, but it's not going to scare me, nor should it anyone else.

 

[Guest]

Unless your a PUSSY!

 

[RhapSidious]

Originally posted by forn1x


Jump yes, scare the shit outta you on a constant basis, no.

It isn't designed to scare you, it's not a misconception. Jumping moments sure, exhilarating and fun firefights, yes.

Scaring you? No. Don't get me wrong, it's going to be really fun fighting along side an impressively coded AI and dodging lazers from a 40 ft strider, but it's not going to scare me, nor should it anyone else.

Thats pretty much what I meant too. It'll have "scary" momments (ie headcrab out of the dark) but I agree it won't be truly scary (ie movies like the Ring, or Exorsist.) My point was it will make you jump.

Originally posted by schweppes
Unless your a PUSSY!

Lol. Even D3 isn't that scary, but the sound effects, lighting and atmosphere definately help make it an scary experience.

 

[Mountain Man]

Originally posted by RhapSidious
I think Raven added that to the Q3 engine for SOF2. If I remember correctly SOF1's hit detection and dismemberment wasnt as accurate as SOF2.

If it wasn't per-pixel it sure as hell looked like it. I remember shooting victims eyes out and the bullet would blow the back of their head out (hehe I know that sounds sick but I did that to any NPC who actually hit my in SP.)

What you're describing is simple locational damage, not per-pixel hit detection. GHOUL (SOF's gore engine) used an advanced hitbox system to detect where a player was hit and then dismembered the player model accordingly.

 

[Apos]

My comment was perfectly factual in like I have said 3x in this post already, HL2 will make you jump but it isn't going to blast your heart rate through the roof, nor for extended amounts of time.

You comment was an opinion based on nothing at all. Anyone could act exactly like you, and say that Doom3 wont be scary either. In reality, both games will be creepy and scary, and blend that with many other sorts of experiences as well, including humor.

 

[jhero]

humor , that will be the day - Teh day i find a game which makes me laugh and make me want to play it from start to finish will be amazing.

 

[Quotidian---]

i see hl2 as more of an 'aaawweee' thing, hl1 was decently scarely, in the jumpy sense, or the anticipation when you know a zombie is behind a door you need to go through,

but i see hl2 as more of a walking down the street and i still can't get over the graphics and then some huge stryder is walking all around, hell i bet the first time i see that in the game, i'm probably just going to freeze and let it kill me in awe

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by RhapSidious
I think Raven added that to the Q3 engine for SOF2. If I remember correctly SOF1's hit detection and dismemberment wasnt as accurate as SOF2.

If it wasn't per-pixel it sure as hell looked like it. I remember shooting victims eyes out and the bullet would blow the back of their head out (hehe I know that sounds sick but I did that to any NPC who actually hit my in SP.)

sofII uses GOULII wich has per-pixel hit detection as part of its feature set QIII engine uses hitboxes by default, sofI used the quake II engine mostly.. with lots of cool hitboxes decals and on time animations and dismembering models

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by jhero
humor , that will be the day - Teh day i find a game which makes me laugh and make me want to play it from start to finish will be amazing.

go play NO ONE LIVES FOREVER (the orginal) its one of the best pc games ever and its funny as hell

 

[the_prodigy]

Let's see if I can say this properly.

In Half-Life 1, world collisions and collision culling were handled by gross
bounding boxes. If something collided with the bounding box, you could then
compare it against a group of hit boxes. This was pretty coarse.

In Half-Life 2, entities can also have an associated vphysics collision
model. This is what the physics uses, and gives per polygon collision
information. Gross bounding boxes are now used mainly for culling. Hit
boxes now have more flexibility (they move with the bone they are assigned
to, for example). If you need polygon level collision information (which is
useful for a lot of things) then you'll be using the vphysics model and not
the hit boxes.

You could, if you wanted to, build a mod that did per-poly vphysics
collisions for every entity. However there are lots of times when hit-box
collisions give you all the information you need.

I think the confusion about this arose when someone at Valve was asked "does
HL-2 have hit boxes" and the answer was "yes". This was technically
accurate, but left off the information the questioner was actually after.

-----Original Message-----
From: Arzin
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 2:09 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Why hitboxes ?


Hey guys,

Could you tell me in detail why y'all chose to go with hit boxes rather than per-poly ? And how will HL2s hitbox technology be better than the usual
hitbox tech we see in games today ? I have my guesses as to why y'all chose it (MP and MODing issues) but I would appreciate it if you could tell me why exactly.

Looking forward to you reply. Thanks alot.

Arzin
____________

That's already in the Valve info topic, thought I'd put it here as well. Hope it clears up some of your doubts in this area.

 

[Apos]

Gabe puts the smack down. So they can do per-poly if needed, but its not needed!

 

[Quotidian---]

meaning i can shoot between your legs?

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Quotidian---
meaning i can shoot between your legs?

heh, heh, heh.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Originally posted by Quotidian---
meaning i can shoot between your legs?

Yuppers!!

Lol i bet people are gunna make a SOF2 blood mod for CS to make it all bloody and insane!!

I would Love to see a Half-life remake in Source Engine with Per-Pixel Hit damage and being to blow your enemies away with a mini-gun and see body parts of all sorts fly every which way with a sickening satisfaction of gore and destruction.

HERE IS AN IDEA.......
Why not try per-pixel on a rigid body like a computer to make it destroy realisticly......would be worth it

 

[RhapSidious]

Originally posted by coolio2man
Yuppers!!

Lol i bet people are gunna make a SOF2 blood mod for CS to make it all bloody and insane!!

HERE IS AN IDEA.......
Why not try per-pixel on a rigid body like a computer to make it destroy realisticly......would be worth it

That would be dope. Now that we know it can be done, I'm sure a mod team will be able to implement a per-pixel GHOUL style damage system which give us gore and between the legs action.

Applying pix-pixel damage to stationary objects would be cool. It would make the whole gameworld sorta like Red Faction (real-time deformation, which is possible with Source as seen in the E3 demo). That would be nice, real nice.

 

[Lifthz]

Originally posted by jhero
humor , that will be the day - Teh day i find a game which makes me laugh and make me want to play it from start to finish will be amazing.

NOLF, NOLF 2, Halo

Originally posted by Apos
Gabe puts the smack down. So they can do per-poly if needed, but its not needed!

Need and want are different.

I want per pixel, but meh... whatever we get I guess.

 

[Parasite]

IIRC the hit boxes in HL2 are actually the model mesh anyway, and with how many polies the models have I dont think there will be any problems with hit detection. If you only wanna shoot a guy in his finger, you can. If you wanna shoot between his fingers, you can. Per pixel is overkill imo, the only instance it would really matter much is if an arrow hit chain mail or something similar, in wich case Im sure a clever mod team could figure something out to acheive the same effect.

 

[MaDMaXX]

"Do not attempt to flame me with pitiful remarks stating no evidence to back up or support what you say."

Hmm, yes, you did correct yourself later on, but do not try to worm out of the fact you are as guilty of this as i was in my comment, so do not go around wiping your feet on the door mat, then proceeding to tell others they can not.

 

[oldi1knoby]

You know, it's people like you who have RUINED my carpet. They walk into my house without taking their shoes off, and BAM my carpet is covered in dirt. When I have to move next week, I don't expect the deposit back. Thanks a LOT MaDMacx, for not wiping your feet on the doormat and telling toehrs they can too.

You sicken me.

 

[Quotidian---]

Originally posted by oldi1knoby
You know, it's people like you who have RUINED my carpet. They walk into my house without taking their shoes off, and BAM my carpet is covered in dirt. When I have to move next week, I don't expect the deposit back. Thanks a LOT MaDMacx, for not wiping your feet on the doormat and telling toehrs they can too.

You sicken me.

hahahahhahahahaaha

 

[forn1x]

Hmm, yes, you did correct yourself later on, but do not try to worm out of the fact you are as guilty of this as i was in my comment, so do not go around wiping your feet on the door mat, then proceeding to tell others they can not.

I'm lost

 

[Infoceptor]

Of course it will make your heart jump for short periods of time when a headcrab comes out of nowhere and what not, but it's not going to make your heart go anywhere over 120 or anywhere around 120 for more than 2 seconds, due to that one exciting event.

Jump yes, scare the shit outta you on a constant basis, no.

The comment is based on your opinion and assumptions on the game. You, just as everyone else, has absolutely no idea what will happen and what surprises Valve will have in store for us. You cannot go around stating your opinions on the game as if they were facts. Even if that was how you experienced Hl2 in the future, how do you know that others did not share the same emotions as you?

On the same account, i could just say that the scare tactics in Doom III will be little different from that of Half-life 2, ie "monster in the shadows" or the "monster chasing you around". The novelty of either, constantly used throughout the game, will soon wear off. If this is the case in Doom III, no, it will not scare me on a constant basis either.

Do not attempt to flame me with pitiful remarks stating no evidence to back up or support what you say. My comment was perfectly factual in like I have said 3x in this post already, HL2 will make you jump but it isn't going to blast your heart rate through the roof, nor for extended amounts of time. That's not the point, it's supposed to be a flawless mixture of releasic physics and AI, and fun and exciting gameplay.

As for the factual part - Your comment, once again, is based on your opinion and assumptions on the game.

It isn't designed to scare you, it's not a misconception. Jumping moments sure, exhilarating and fun firefights, yes. Scaring you? No. Don't get me wrong, it's going to be really fun fighting along side an impressively coded AI and dodging lazers from a 40 ft strider, but it's not going to scare me, nor should it anyone else.

Sigh... how do you know this? I believe that the point of Half-life 2 is to immerse you into their world, to actually make you have feelings for Alyx and the other characters. Once you enter their world like this, you aka. Gordan Freeman will actually care if you die and when a Strider is chasing you around, i believe you will be panicking and running for your life.

But... as always, this is my take on what Hl2 will be like for me and there is really no right answer. You can experience Half-life whatever way you want and I too but hopefully the results would be the same, that we both will be impressed.

 

[Apos]

Need and want are different.

Why do you want per-poly if it all comes to the same thing and would place more limits on the number of characters in a scene?

He said that could be done, and they are choosing not to do it in this particular game (presumably because it trades off too much performance for not enough gains). What's to worry?