physics related question..

Tarkus

Tarkus

Tank
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
1,321
Reaction score
0
i dont know if this has already been asked, but here it goes:
imagine a bucket full of water, you think if we shot that bucket or throw something at it it would fall and spill the water?? like it happens in real life??
 
no, but it could be scriptable to make it look similar to real life, free flowing water is too advanced for current hardware as far as i know
 
I think switch is right :) no buckets full of water in HL2 i guess :p
 
hmmm, but it would be cool.. like if we shot a resevoir (don't know if i said it right) with a RPG and cause a flood!!!
 
Originally posted by Tarkus
hmmm, but it would be cool.. like if we shot a resevoir (don't know if i said it right) with a RPG and cause a flood!!!
Click to expand...

holy hell that would lag... I have a 3 gig processor and a Radeon 9800 pro and I am sure that would still lag like hell.
 
Actually, this was asked in another thread or forum (can't remember which), but switch is correct: the water cannot spill out (without a script).

Edit: If memory serves, the question was answered by Gabe.
 
Originally posted by Beazil
Actually, this was asked in another thread or forum (can't remember which), but switch is correct: the water cannot spill out (without a script).

Edit: If memory serves, the question was answered by Gabe.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct sir :p
 
Ya cause like every particle of H2O has to be modeled and react accordingly based on temperature, barometric pressure and atmosphere level, etc... It's like having billions and billions of little dots, all held together with weak springs and each one has to be computed individually... Hmm no we won't have that till like 2020 or something heh :)
 
It's a design decision, but also a technical limitation :D

You can simulate fluid body physics, but not in real time in a game engine. The calculations are just to complex for hardware to do realtime.
 
Ya its not a limitation of source, but any present computer (t3h sux0rz comapred to 2020)
 
that makes one wonder tho....i mean just think about the infinite possibllity's of a single water molecule??
 
Originally posted by scribblehead
that makes one wonder tho....i mean just think about the infinite possibllity's of a single water molecule??
Click to expand...

water will always flow down hill and attempt to fill a container

it will be in the next generation of games most likely
 
Originally posted by scribblehead
that makes one wonder tho....i mean just think about the infinite possibllity's of a single water molecule??
Click to expand...
there is only one possibility, just because it's too complex for a human to predict, or a computer to render, does not make it either complex or simple in the universal objective point of view.
 
Yes, but as far as we're concerned everything is from the human point of view. :)
 
Originally posted by SirMcNugget
Yes, but as far as we're concerned everything is from the human point of view. :)
Click to expand...
true.. everything we perceive is going to be from a human's pov.. it doesn't mean that no other pov exists, or that you can't try to see something without relating it to emotion or belief, and just see it for what it is physically.
 
Originally posted by worldspawn
there is only one possibility, just because it's too complex for a human to predict, or a computer to render, does not make it either complex or simple in the universal objective point of view.
Click to expand...

It isn't too complex to render, there are several plugins for fluids to use with 3d animation programs. Just the real time that forms the problem, and it doesn't add much gameplay to the game, just a fancy gadget.
 
Originally posted by PvtRyan
It isn't too complex to render, there are several plugins for fluids to use with 3d animation programs. Just the real time that forms the problem, and it doesn't add much gameplay to the game, just a fancy gadget.
Click to expand...
i just meant real time? i thought that was a given, also just because something looks real doesn't mean it's technically rendered realistically. ... i doubt there is many rendered scenes of water that exist today that i couldn't tell the difference from real water.
 
the movie A PErfect Storm has some very nice water effects... at least i think they are effects... meh... anyways, I hope one day that a game will be able to simulate real life down to the atom itself, and those atoms/molecules will react realistically.
 
Originally posted by switch
no, but it could be scriptable to make it look similar to real life, free flowing water is too advanced for current hardware as far as i know
Click to expand...

not true, they do this pretty well in devastation...to bad the rest of the game blows goats

.and yes im sure its not scripted it was a feature of the engine.
 
Originally posted by worldspawn
true.. everything we perceive is going to be from a human's pov.. it doesn't mean that no other pov exists
Click to expand...

Is that like thinking if a tree falls in a forest, but there's nothing there to hear it, does it make a sound?
 
We assume it will make a sound, but thats just like saying, how do we know anyone else is really human and not just extremely complex robots that act human.

These are common paradox's of philosophy.
 
i didn't say you were robots, it's a paradox, like i said.
 
I would have to say it would make a "clap" sound (by using the word "clapping" you are telling us that it is colliding with something and making that noise because that is what clapping means).

Now, if you said "trying to clap but hitting nothing" I would say it would make a "woosh" sound.
 
how do you know your see'ing everything like everyone else?

maybe the way you precieve yoru world is completely different yet you can function like everyone else just normally so you aren't aware of it thus never rise any questions? what if chicken really doesn't taste like chicken to you compared to everyone else? you'd never know!
 
Is that like thinking if a tree falls in a forest, but there's nothing there to hear it, does it make a sound?
Click to expand...

of course, I hate that quote, it's rediculous. of course it makes a sound
 
.and yes im sure its not scripted it was a feature of the engine.
Click to expand...

Scripted. i.e., it was not physically simulated, just made up of a few effects made to look like it was (but certainly not capable of having water flow realistically over and through anything you choose in real time and react properly).
 
A realtime water physics system could be devised to work with today's hardware.... under close scrutiny though it wouldn't be totally realistic - the particles would have to be too big (in order for there to be few enough for the simulation to run) to act absolutely realistically. So for things like water flowing out of holes or buckets, I'd say it's not really possible right now, but for things like rivers flowing etc, or water flowing into tunnels\paths, I think it could be done.

I seem to remember a MMORPG that was being developed a while ago (don't think it ever reached completion, perhaps still under development) that boasted this sort of real-time water simulation.

Oh, and, of course a tree makes a sound if it falls but noone's around to hear it. A sound is something we can percieve, but it is not defined by our perception of it. Sound is simply vibration in particles (mainly air), and this vibration occurs whether we are around to percieve it or not.

There are some questions like that that are interesting though. Such as: How do we know whether or not we percieve colours (colors for you yanks) the same as everyone else? Even if what green looks like to me is different to what it looks like to you, we'd still both grow up associating the same things with green, so we'd react the same to it and call it green. There's no way to know if my interpretation of green actuallly looks anything like yours. The same goes for flavours and physical sensations. We may see, feel or taste something differently, but our conditioned response to it is the same - we interpret it the same, and react the same to it, so there's no way of knowing it's any different.
 
Well in order to have realistic water, you need more than simple particles, you need interconnecting particles, metaparticles. They would form 1 interconnecting blob. With particles you can only make a realistic water splash, but certainly not the water flowing out of a dropped bucket. But metaparticles are as far as my experience with them really intensive to calculate, and it would still not react like real water.
 
Obviously any water simulation system would be very system intensive, and it certainly couldn't react just like real water without being too complex to calculate in real time, but I still maintain that a system could be devised to approximate the movement of fairly large bodies of water. I've done some programming and I believe it is possible. To back that up, there's that game that did actually come up with a system. I think it was called "Dawn" or something.
 
You mean the MMORPG that got put on hold because they didn't have enough money?
They are supposed to be making a regular RPG for PC and XBox until they can afford to work on the bigger project.

There was a cryptic post on their site recently after almost a year of nothing:
The Prophecy Has Begun
"As sure as the sun will rise..."
 
wait till the top prescott processors or (whats the next one's name starts with a T i think) comes out till free flowing water is possible
 
like not only the hardware is to less, i dont think someone could actually program realtime water movement
 
with todays computers realistic water could not even nearly be simulated in real time! it's difficult enough to do it in non-realtime...
 
humm i think they can, gabe sayed they created a tornado that actually pickup stuff, and it acted diff every time...i think a bucket wouldnt be as hard!!!
 
Here's some interesting stuff on real-time water:

___________

http://cgi3.tky.3web.ne.jp/~tkano/tlwater.shtml

This is a small demo demonstrating real-time 3d water, however it's only calculating the waves on the surface, rather than using particle systems, so you couldn't get pouring effects with this system.

This demo is pretty old, but it's still pretty impressive, and no games I know of have used this level of water simulation yet. (Why not? stupid game developers...)
___________

http://www.vterrain.org/Water/

A page linking to a few old realtime water related things.
___________

http://www.glitchless.com/dawn.html

That game I was talking about that boasted real-time water simulation. Here's a quote from the faq:

"Can you dig holes in the ground and burrow?

We have implemented simple terrain manipulation that will allow you to dig channels in the ground for moats and such. Probably the biggest use will be for redirecting water flow. Our water physics are exceptional to say the least, our oceans have real waves and dropping a pebble in the water will cause rippling and possibly a splash. For videos check the screenshots link off of www.glitchless.com "
___________

I remember a few other sites\demos related to real-time water.. if I find them I'll post them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Krynn72
You guys, what the **** is up.
Replies
11
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
bbson john
Hi everyone. I am new to this forum!
Replies
11
Views
6K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
MFL
Fascinating look at the ongoing psychological evolution of flat hieirarchies.
Replies
2
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
B
Valve artist Drew Wolf's new website reveals Team Fortress 2's female cast and more
Replies
0
Views
60K
Barnz
B
B
Marc Laidlaw releases Half-Life 2: Episode Three's plot
Replies
32
Views
39K
BabyHeadCrab
BabyHeadCrab
Back
Top