Picking a car...

And please, don't even try and argue with me, the entire world knows that when it comes to car manufacturing, sports, luxury and common road cars, america is beneath euro and jap, EVEN when you compare the countries with same type and price cars.
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Entire world? Yeah, that explains why the Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, and Dodge Charger are all insanely popular around here and in nearby countries. Not to mention the popularity Chevy Lumina SS(which is actually an Australian car but with an American drivetrain).

08 Dodge Viper specs(the basics):

8.4L(WTF INSANELY HUGE ENGINE),V10/6 spd manual
600BHP
0-60mph in let's say 3.5 sec
price = around $85 grand




08 BMW M6:
5.0L V10
500-550BHP
0-60mph in 4.6 sec
price = around $90 grand
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Congratulations, you just proved that the Viper is way faster for the price.

0-60 mph M6 takes the win.
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Umm....what? Did you even read the stats you just posted?

Ok, toyota - probably one of the most reliable cars in the world, not to mention their luxury brand lexus destroys any american luxury brand.
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I'll agree with you on the reliability thing, but modern Toyotas are absolutely boring, and while I'll agree that American luxury cars have been in the shitter since the mid-70s, as of last year I'd take a Cadillac CTS or STS over any Lexus.(don't get me wrong, my mom owns one and they're nice cars, but like Toyota they make you want to fall asleep)

ok take the rx-8.....220something HP with a 1.3L engine?! Ok that's not a hell of a lot of HP but still a very decent amount for the price and the engine size. Plus it redlines to what 9000rpm's ( pitz correct me if i'm wrong cuz i don;t know a hell of a lot about the rx8).
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The size of the engine means nothing if it still guzzles as much fuel as a V8.
 
AKIRA said:
ok take the rx-8.....220something HP with a 1.3L engine?! Ok that's not a hell of a lot of HP but still a very decent amount for the price and the engine size. Plus it redlines to what 9000rpm's ( pitz correct me if i'm wrong cuz i don;t know a hell of a lot about the rx8).
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well, I had a 1.3L Rx7. it's a good engine but don't think this is the one to brag about. With that kind of fuel consumption, it has very little torque unless it's turbo, but you didn't mention efficiency in your argument where you begged someone to debate Besides, an R/T Dodge Neon (or whatever they are calling their beast now) has over 330 HP if I'm not mistaken, with somewhere around a 2.0L engine. I'll take the Neon anyday. besides they look nasty IMO.

Ok, toyota - probably one of the most reliable cars in the world, not to mention their luxury brand lexus destroys any american luxury brand.
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Toyota /Lexus is great. Yes. Cadillac has race cars too. I don't know if cars get any more luxury than Cadillac either. I think Toyota is the best selling brand in the world, but if it was that great, everyone in the world would be driving a Totota/Lexus. personally, I like the Lexus, but it's not my favorite, in fact I prefer Accura, and I've never been a fan of Toyota.

Also like to add that - at least here in America, almost every American luxury car can be had for like $10,000 less than it's foreign counterpart. (Asuka lives in America mind you) Would you like to have an equivalent car and $10,000 extra in your pocket to spend, or an equivalent car and no extra dollars?
Let's compare the "super cars" shall we? Compare a dodge viper to ...let's say a BMW M6...


08 Dodge Viper specs(the basics):

8.4L(WTF INSANELY HUGE ENGINE),V10/6 spd manual
600BHP
0-60mph in let's say 3.5 sec
price = around $85 grand




08 BMW M6:
5.0L V10
500-550BHP
0-60mph in 4.6 sec
price = around $90 grand



ok so americas SUPER CAR vs a BMW M6...viper has a bit more HP than the M6 (but with way less options, M6 is loaded with a bunch of electronic gizmo's and gadgets n goodies etc), engine size in the M6 is considerably less and the 0-60 mph M6 takes the win. Prices are pretty much the same (although i always think BMW is way overpriced but whatever).

I think the M6 takes the cake on this one.
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wait, trusting your figures the Viper thoroughly crushes the M6 in 0-60, but you said the M6 wins?

The cake is a lie.
 
Of course VirusType, it's not like your posts don't have any errors:

And Japan ain't got shit when it comes to stock horsepower. 275 HP is all they've got
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If you're referring to that "manufacturer's agreement" that limited horsepower to 279 HP(IIRC), then that was dropped a few years ago. There are quite a few modern Japanese cars that make 300+ horsepower stock, some approaching or exceeding 400.

Also, I've never heard of a FWD "Firebird GTO". I know that there are two seperate cars called the "Firebird" and the "GTO"(the latter which was sold as the Chevy Lumina Coupe in the Middle East), both which are RWD.
 
lmao, woah sorry about the 0-60mph thing lol don't know where that came from.

But really, the M6 makes up for it with all the crazy gadgets and stuff inside of it and it still goes really fast and can haul some serious ass.
 
Lawl at thread turning into US/Other cars.

Everybody knows 99% of the American car base are either econoboxes *not a bad thing* or just a gigantic engined, huge HP and Torque monsters...which really has to stop sooner or later. Foreign cars have a combo in MPG and performance. Sure most of them are super fast, but their performance in speed, handling, etc make up for that.
 
Seat 3 door Ibiza (?9.065 or $17,939)
Top speed: 109mph
0-62: 12.9sec

2007 Cobalt ($18,900 or ?9.550)
Top Speed: 118mph
0-60: 7.1sec


omgomgogmogmgogmog american > european.

....seriously, if we're going to start an american vs the world argument. Can we at least use cars that are REALISTICALLY priced (aka, ~25,000 USD)? I hate that crap people do when they start arguing over who's half million dollar supercar is better. Or better yet, could we just not start this utterly ridiculous argument?
 
But really, the M6 makes up for it with all the crazy gadgets and stuff inside of it and it still goes really fast and can haul some serious ass.
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Some people would consider the Viper's lack of excess gadgets and electronics a positive, making it more of a "pure" performance car. Not me, I'd take the M6 any day of the week, but I can see where other people may be coming from.

Everybody knows 99% of the American car base are either econoboxes *not a bad thing* or just a gigantic engined, huge HP and Torque monsters...which really has to stop sooner or later. Foreign cars have a combo in MPG and performance. Sure most of them are super fast, but their performance in speed, handling, etc make up for that.
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Yeah, because equally gigantic-engined European HP/Torque monsters(seriously) or high-revving turboed Japanese sports cars don't guzzle gas at all.
 
Man I'm reading all this and learning. This is cool/good. When i get more info on my reason for this thread ill post again. As of right now I'm going to be checking out the cars listed in real life. Pictures really don't do cars justice.

If any of you have any other suggestions please post them.

Prize range is 40,000ish with tax included.
 
Well, since you mentioned the Caddy CTS in your original post, I would also look at an Infiniti G35 if I were in your situation. It's my favorite "compact luxury" car.

There's also the G37, but the price difference between it and the G35 in Bahrain is too great considering that the only differences between them are 24 more horsepower and two less doors. Maybe the situation is different where you live.
 
Because every Jap car is a turbo'd monster....I can count on my hands how many jap cars are only turbo'd....But hey, if you wanna keep up the "I LOVE AMERICAN CARS" talk, have at it. I think you are in the minority here...
 
american cars suck. i'd buy a kia before an american car. in fact, this last time i was buying a car, we actually looked at kias, but no american cars.
 
Apocalypse89 said:
Well, since you mentioned the Caddy CTS in your original post, I would also look at an Infiniti G35 if I were in your situation. It's my favorite "compact luxury" car.

There's also the G37, but the price difference between it and the G35 in Bahrain is too great considering that the only differences between them are 24 more horsepower and two less doors. Maybe the situation is different where you live.
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Its ok, im not really a fan of how it looks. Better then most tho.
 
CyberPitz said:
Because every Jap car is a turbo'd monster....I can count on my hands how many jap cars are only turbo'd....But hey, if you wanna keep up the "I LOVE AMERICAN CARS" talk, have at it. I think you are in the minority here...
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I meant performance cars...my point was that if you want performance you have to pay the price in fuel efficiency, regardless of where the car was made.

And I don't love American cars...I love certain American cars, hate some others, and don't care about the rest. Same thing with Japanese and European cars. The reason I'm defending American cars in this thread is because I find that classifying cars merely by their country of manufacture is utterly silly.
 
Then it's not a coincidence that the Mini Cooper(and other sport compacts) are on the bottom of the performance car ladder.

Not saying that they're bad, I can definitely understand the appeal(a fun car that doesn't burn through your wallet), but there's reason why they are fuel efficient.
 
*Sorry. I said Firebird GTO . Need a correction:

The 2005/2006 Pontiac GTO did 0-60 in about 4.6 sec. Extremely nasty for a FWD at $32,000, in fact that's just as fast as the BMW M6 supercar going for 3 times more
• The 2006 GTO started at $31,990 * MSRP.
Some of the features and specifications are listed below that came on the 2006 GTO.

Engine
# All-aluminum 6.0L Gen IV LS2 V8 engine with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft torque.
Transmission
# Standard 4L65-E 4-speed automatic transmission.
# Available Tremec close-ratio 6-speed manual.
Features
# Exhaust outlets, split dual with single chrome-tipped outlets.
# Hood scoops.
# Spoiler, rear, aerodynamic.
# EPA mileage estimates** 6.0L automatic: 16/21 (city/highway mpg) 6.0L manual: 17/25 (city/highway mpg)
Standard Capacities Fuel tank: 18 gallons (approx.)
Seating: 4
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I don't see why people act like this is some new concept. To make a car go faster, you can make it use more energy, in which case you pay the price in fuel efficiency. Or you can lower the weight, but then you'd have to pay the price in luxury and safety. Or you can develop technology which allows you to go faster while keeping the fuel efficiency and weight the same, but that takes time and R&D costs.

So, barring long-term technological development, you always have to pay the price for performance. European and Japanese cars aren't magically exempt from this rule like a lot of people seem to act.
 
Apocalypse89 said:
To make a car go faster, you can make it use more energy, in which case you pay the price in fuel efficiency. Or you can lower the weight, but then you'd have to pay the price in luxury and safety.
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You could also just use the energy more efficiently. Look at the rx8, 1.3l and car and driver said they averaged 19mpg with it.

Lowering the weight does not mean reducing safety. Look at all the utter BS they put on cars now: heated/cooled seats, electric seats, steering wheel controls, navigation, dvd systems, heated window washers, automatic window wipers, automatic lights, buttons you press and the seats/trunk close by themselves, mercedes will automatically close partially closed doors, headlights that turn with your steering, haldex awd systems on every car because they want you to believe if you hit a puddle you'll end up on fire in a ditch, quad-zone climate control, I-Drive (and it's counterparts), etc...
 
You could also just use the energy more efficiently. Look at the rx8, 1.3l and car and driver said they averaged 19mpg with it.
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Read the fourth sentence in my last post. This is the technology I was talking about. It takes time and development costs to make.

Lowering the weight does not mean reducing safety. Look at all the utter BS they put on cars now: heated/cooled seats, electric seats, steering wheel controls, navigation, dvd systems, heated window washers, automatic window wipers, automatic lights, buttons you press and the seats/trunk close by themselves, mercedes will automatically close partially closed doors, headlights that turn with your steering, haldex awd systems on every car because they want you to believe if you hit a puddle you'll end up on fire in a ditch, quad-zone climate control, I-Drive (and it's counterparts), etc...
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These are luxury features. Removing them may not be much of a price to you, but it may be to others.
 
Apocalypse89 said:
Read the fourth sentence in my last post. This is the technology I was talking about. It takes time and development costs to make.
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yea I just mis-read your whole post, I thought you said something different with the fuel efficiency, and I was giving the rx8 as an example of 'not the best' technology.


Apocalypse89 said:
These are luxury features. Removing them may not be much of a price to you, but it may be to others.
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and I didn't read the word luxury here, I just saw safety. I'm still pissed off about all the crap they put on cars though.
 
xcellerate said:
You could also just use the energy more efficiently. Look at the rx8, 1.3l and car and driver said they averaged 19mpg with it.
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Is this a typo? that's terrible fuel mileage. You can get similar fuel economy with a 6.0 Liter

I don't think the rotary engine is acclaimed for fuel economy.

(edit: I thought you were saying it was good)
 
CyberPitz said:
Lawl at thread turning into US/Other cars.

Everybody knows 99% of the American car base are either econoboxes *not a bad thing* or just a gigantic engined, huge HP and Torque monsters...which really has to stop sooner or later. Foreign cars have a combo in MPG and performance. Sure most of them are super fast, but their performance in speed, handling, etc make up for that.
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Really? I thought that when Top Gear track tested the Z06, it did better than a Pagani Zonda, and a 911 GT3 RS.

Apocalypse89 said:
I meant performance cars...my point was that if you want performance you have to pay the price in fuel efficiency, regardless of where the car was made.
Click to expand...


The Corvette with the LS3 motor makes 26 highway, the M3 makes 25, the M6 makes 17, the Audi A5 makes 26, the 911 makes 26 at best with the low end motors, the 350Z makes 25. Compared to similarly performing cars *cough* it actually is about average.
 
Ford Mustang vs. Mistubishi Lancer Evolution

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=24256

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=25164

Nearly identical fuel economy. Even being 4-cylinder and "omg japanese" didn't save the Evo from paying the price for performance.

And I'll just spell out the point I've been trying to make all this time...the most general "criteria" by which I'll judge a car is the company which makes it. Companies' financial situations and philosophy can have an impact on the design of their cars. However, classifying cars by their country of manufacture is stupid and nonsensical.
 
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