Planned Obsolescence?

[Raziaar]

Surprisingly, I don't think I have heard of this term before today.

Planned Obsolescence.

It sounds cool, but the definition reveals its true dirty nature.

So anybody who is knowledgeable about the computer industry and how companies operate in regards to planning to make their products obsolete in order to rake in even more money, able to tell me just how rampant this practice is in the industry that provides us all of our computer parts?

I'm especially interested in this, because I have had issues with my video cards. ATI cards in particular. Every single ATI card I have ever purchased, with exception of my latest and greatest one, has failed on me. And not only have they failed on me, they failed on my consistently.

We have purchased three ATI Radeon 9800 pro's... and they all failed within a couple months of each other.

My x1950 pro I think, was just a faulty card from a faulty line, and didn't operate well from the beginning, and I just hadn't realized it until it started completely crapping out.


Do I have to start worrying that any time my computer parts fail, that it's not necessarily just an unexpected freak incident failure, but rather a planned, choreographed failure to make me buy another product again? Monitors, hard drives, processors, video cards, computer mice(I have a gigantically huge problem with computer mice failing).

Admittedly, I haven't had much experience with most of my other computer parts failing other than the video cards... but that doesn't mean it won't change. And it doesn't mean it won't be rampant in other products in other electronics industries.

Hardware is almost by definition always facing obsoletion due to better technology coming out from research and development. Companies should use this as a means to drive their revenue, not the dirty strategy of planned obsolescence. Products should simply age, with new better products out there that people are enticed to buy. They shouldn't simply cease functioning by design. That's terrible.

I have an Nvidia Geforce 3. Every time my ATI cards have failed on me, I have fallen back to that Geforce 3 in order to still use my computer. It doesn't run things well, but it still runs. It's still incredibly durable after all these years.


EDIT: Found this article... reading it now. May be interesting... if a bit old.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/471548/computers_the_poster_children_of_planned.html?cat=15

 

[Krynn72]

This has been known for quite some time to be honest raz. Its a sound business practice to release their technologies in increments and capitalize their profits. How else could they afford the massive expense of R&D finding new technologies? If they were to sell their newest products asap then technological advancement would actually be slowed due to a decrease in revenue. Same goes for technologies designed to fail. If you sell someone a product that will last forever, then you have lost that customer forever. It would be a stupid business practice.


And stop blaming ATI jeez . Almost all components are designed to die within a few years. I've had plenty of Nvidia products crap out on me.

 

[Raziaar]

This has been known for quite some time to be honest raz. Its a sound business practice to release their technologies in increments and capitalize their profits. How else could they afford the massive expense of R&D finding new technologies? If they were to sell their newest products asap then technological advancement would actually be slowed due to a decrease in revenue. Same goes for technologies designed to fail. If you sell someone a product that will last forever, then you have lost that customer forever. It would be a stupid business practice.


And stop blaming ATI jeez . Almost all components are designed to die within a few years. I've had plenty of Nvidia products crap out on me.

They still get revenue from people who like to stay on top of technology and have the latest and greatest things. Computer enthusiasts. But to me, the whole idea of designing a product to actually fail is much like hiring some thugs to come in my home and break my shit.

Is there really something wrong with liking the idea of being able to have my computer that has parts which don't fail as designed after 3 years or so... so I can gift my older computer to a younger cousin or my dad... who don't need the latest and greatest, but need something that will last a long time?

I'm perfectly satisfied with buying new computer parts. I am a gamer, I like to be on top of the latest games. I cannot do that with my older systems. They can't play those games well or at all, and so I buy new computer parts. I don't dump my electronics though when that happens. I stretch their life out by giving them to people other than myself, who can use them for a long long time afterwards.

In my opinion, designing products that fail like this sounds like a huge contribution to the growing and dangerous problem of electronics devices filling up landfills after being improperly disposed of.

People other than old people or technically stupid individuals don't just buy a computer and hold onto it forever and never buy anything else. You know that. People don't buy new products only because they fail on them. They buy them because they're enticed by new and exciting things.

I will continue blaming ATI! You can't stop me! The way they all died within 1-2 months of each other screams kill switch to me!

I want to buy a new computer every 3-4 years because I want the latest and greatest, not because all my shit failed and I simply cannot use my computer anymore. That's a hunk of ****ing junk that I can't give to my cousins or my dad to use. And that is what I do with my old computer parts. My old computer is going to my dad's new wife for her to use, which is way better than her current one. And my brother's one, when he upgrades soon, is going to my dad. Which is WAY better than the one he currently uses.

 

[Krynn72]

They still get revenue from people who like to stay on top of technology and have the latest and greatest things.

Thats not true. If they released the latest, greatest thing then they would have some sales initially, then bumpkis for the next several years while they research the next. That would equal death for the company.

But to me, the whole idea of designing a product to actually fail is much like hiring some thugs to come in my home and break my shit.

Its more like a piece of chewing gum loosing its flavor. Ever seen the stride gum commercials? They're not really joking.

Is there really something wrong with liking the idea of being able to have my computer that has parts which don't fail as designed after 3 years or so... so I can gift my older computer to a younger cousin or my dad... who don't need the latest and greatest, but need something that will last a long time?

I don't think you're comprehending the fact that companies require income to function. If everyone gets hand-me-downs and only 1000 people ever get the newest shit, technological advancement would come almost to a hault. The companies would need to wait years and years before they can afford to research new shit.

I'm perfectly satisfied with buying new computer parts. I am a gamer, I like to be on top of the latest games. I cannot do that with my older systems. They can't play those games well or at all, and so I buy new computer parts. I don't dump my electronics though when that happens. I stretch their life out by giving them to people other than myself, who can use them for a long long time afterwards.

Thats fine on a small scale. But those people are essential money sinks in the economy, and as I said, if this happened on a grander scale then we would stop advancing in our tech.

In my opinion, designing products that fail like this sounds like a huge contribution to the growing and dangerous problem of electronics devices filling up landfills after being improperly disposed of.

The environmental issue is a whole different topic. The solution is to find an acceptable way of disposing these things, not to just halt everything.

People other than old people or technically stupid individuals don't just buy a computer and hold onto it forever and never buy anything else. You know that. People don't buy new products only because they fail on them. They buy them because they're enticed by new and exciting things.

Thats a niche market. Bleeding/cutting edge customers make up only around 6% of the technology market last I heard. Thats not enough to continue on as we have.

I want to buy a new computer every 3-4 years because I want the latest and greatest, not because all my shit failed and I simply cannot use my computer anymore. That's a hunk of ****ing junk that I can't give to my cousins or my dad to use. And that is what I do with my old computer parts. My old computer is going to my dad's new wife for her to use, which is way better than her current one. And my brother's one, when he upgrades soon, is going to my dad. Which is WAY better than the one he currently uses.

Tough luck sucka.

 

[Raziaar]

Damn you, damn you for supporting the evildoers who not only plot, but have already fully planned out the demise of my freshly purchased computer system! All in the name of profit.

I will come to you when it fails, and we will sit in your living room and converse. Yes, we will converse.


And on an unrelated note... this must be the reason why pets die too. I do not speak of natural deaths, but unnatural deaths. PETCO agents in black automobiles gunning down residential streets at 80 miles per hour.

 

[VirusType2]

I've never had a computer component fail except for 1 of the 3 ATi cards I've bought. My last one died, so next time I'll try a different manufacturer or brand. Although my failure was an ATi Radeon, it's not just clear cut ATi, in your case you have a Sapphire.

I'll try Nvidia next time I get a card.

Without overclocking, I expect a video card to continue to work for my lifetime, much like the 20 year old video game consoles I still have lying around. They can die, but they should last.

While I'm sure there are companies that have tried planned failures before, I don't think ATi or Nvidia could afford that kind of reputation. They don't intentionally make their electronics fail after a set time. No way.

Keep in mind some electronics are wear items and nothing can be done about that. Lasers on mice and DVD drives burn out and buttons and switches will eventually wear out, if used enough.

By the way have you tried a Logitech mouse? My Mx518 has been the longest lasting and most trouble free mouse I've owned.

 

[Raziaar]

I've never had a computer component fail except for 1 of the 3 ATi cards I've bought. My last one died, so next time I'll try a different manufacturer or brand. Although my failure was an ATi Radeon, it's not just clear cut ATi, in your case you have a Sapphire.

I'll try Nvidia next time I get a card.

Without overclocking, I expect a video card to continue to work for my lifetime, much like the 20 year old video game consoles I still have lying around. They can die, but they should last.

While I'm sure there are companies that have tried planned failures before, I don't think ATi or Nvidia could afford that kind of reputation. They don't intentionally make their electronics fail after a set time. No way.

Keep in mind some electronics are wear items and nothing can be done about that. Lasers on mice and DVD drives burn out and buttons and switches will eventually wear out, if used enough.

By the way have you tried a Logitech mouse? My Mx518 has been the longest lasting and most trouble free mouse I've owned.

All my mice have pretty much been microsoft intellimouse. Shitty little things really... every time the microswitches fail and I get double clicks or clicks that don't retain their hold.

Maybe I'm just not buying expensive enough mice.

 

[Operational]

I have an Nvidia Geforce 3. Every time my ATI cards have failed on me, I have fallen back to that Geforce 3 in order to still use my computer. It doesn't run things well, but it still runs. It's still incredibly durable after all these years.

I have a Geforce 3 it's survived 7 years of consistent use and lived through multiple upgrades. Everything else that I bought back then has either failed or become too obsolete to use. It's currently spitting out polygons for the families PC - what a ****ing beast.

 

[VirusType2]

All my mice have pretty much been microsoft intellimouse. Shitty little things really... every time the microswitches fail and I get double clicks or clicks that don't retain their hold.

Maybe I'm just not buying expensive enough mice.

No, I had a Microsoft Intellimouse, and the right mouse button switch failed. I also had two Microtrends laser mice where the lasers in both burned out very early.

It's not how much you pay for something, it just has to do with quality.

You can probably get a $5.99 Rosewill laser mouse that will last years and work great. My Mom got one nearly a year ago.

But for durability you can probably trust Logitech, but as Asuka noted having a handful of failures on one particular model, it depends on the model.

 

[Adabiviak]

My uncle, an apparently smart man (R&D for Texas Instruments), turned to the dark side, and used his forces for the powers of evil. For a time it was his job (not with TI, but some other outfit) to engineer these 'failures' into various products (copy machines, I believe it was). Electrolytic capacitors in a sufficiently hot environment with appropriately low heat tolerances, for example, are an easy way to ensure that the product lasts just longer than the stock warranty (or just long enough to reach the release of the next product line, whatever market you're in), while being outside of the range of easy fixes that might be tried. We handle this almost daily at work on old CRTs that are made with decidedly weak capacitors, given the amount of heat they'll be living in during their operating life. The company makes money two ways: construction costs are cut by using cheaper parts and sales/service calls increase.

There's apparently a fine line a manufacturer has to walk between increasing sales due to short equipment lifespans and customer drift for the same reason - it would seem that GM perhaps chose poorly?

 

[Viperidae]

Yup, it's pretty much the biggest reason this industry does so well, and also why it generates such massive amounts of waste.

I don't think it usually manifests itself as design flaws, but rather the quality of the parts being used is just plain crappy. My family has kept keyboards from the 80's that will literally never break down, whereas I'm grinding down the plastic of my current one more and more.

There was some conference in the early 90's (that I can't find a reference for atm) between IBM and a bunch of other companies, where they all basically agreed that planned obsolescence was the way of the future. You can see a clear difference in most consumer electronics built before then.

By the way have you tried a Logitech mouse? My Mx518 has been the longest lasting and most trouble free mouse I've owned.

It's funny that you should mention that, as my friend and I both had mx518's that lasted about a year when the cable died at the same time on both of them, causing random cutouts. My friend replaced his with two new ones, that within months had the same problem. Admittedly there might have been other factors for his mice, but I kept mine in pristine condition and it still crapped out on me.

 

[VirusType2]

Indeed, you can buy a vacuum these days that might only last a few weeks or months. A blender? Same thing. I went through two blenders while making 4 milkshakes. Burned them out, then my friend gave me an old blender from the 70's that could blend bones. And my step dad has a vacuum that must be from the 60's and that bitch still works great. It's like 40 years old!

 

[Raziaar]

I have a Geforce 3 it's survived 7 years of consistent use and lived through multiple upgrades. Everything else that I bought back then has either failed or become too obsolete to use. It's currently spitting out polygons for the families PC - what a ****ing beast.

Indeed! Isn't it just insane!?

I've been using it for the past couple months actually in Maya. A million plus polygons on the screen at one point and it was still moving, albeit slow.

My uncle, an apparently smart man (R&D for Texas Instruments), turned to the dark side, and used his forces for the powers of evil. For a time it was his job (not with TI, but some other outfit) to engineer these 'failures' into various products (copy machines, I believe it was). Electrolytic capacitors in a sufficiently hot environment with appropriately low heat tolerances, for example, are an easy way to ensure that the product lasts just longer than the stock warranty (or just long enough to reach the release of the next product line, whatever market you're in), while being outside of the range of easy fixes that might be tried. We handle this almost daily at work on old CRTs that are made with decidedly weak capacitors, given the amount of heat they'll be living in during their operating life. The company makes money two ways: construction costs are cut by using cheaper parts and sales/service calls increase.

There's apparently a fine line a manufacturer has to walk between increasing sales due to short equipment lifespans and customer drift for the same reason - it would seem that GM perhaps chose poorly?

Tell your Uncle he is an evil, evil man! Make him admit it!

Indeed, you can buy a vacuum these days that might only last a few weeks or months. A blender? Same thing. I went through two blenders while making 4 milkshakes. Burned them out, then my friend gave me an old blender from the 70's that could blend bones. And my step dad has a vacuum that must be from the 60's and that bitch still works great. It's like 40 years old!

I wonder if those Blendtec Blenders would fail easily in short time, despite being strong.

 

[Naudian]

I've never had a computer part fail on me, ever. Everything has worked flawlessly right from the start. That's including all the PCs we've owned: an old HP in 98, a Sony Vaio which I bought a 9600xt for (still runs fine), an AMD/7800gt system that my brother is currently using, and my current Intel/8800gt system which hasn't had any problems. Also a laptop.
Just lucky I guess? They never had to endure really hot environments so that might be part of it.

I understand the reasons for planned obsolescence, but I really believe they could advance performance in larger steps than they currently are doing, and not lose money. I mean, what do I know but that's how I feel.

 

[CyberPitz]

My computer that I've had for about 3 years now has an X1850 in there with some AMD processor, and I've since got a new computer and sold the old one to my roommate, and it's working fine. There are always people that have way too much bad luck with electronics.