Polar bears drown as ice shelf melts

I'm surprised you wouldnt like a gas guzzler short recoil
 
CptStern said:
I'm surprised you wouldnt like a gas guzzler short recoil
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Nah, i want to get a turbo diesel i can run on bio fuel.
Volvo 740/940......eco friendly car but still a tough car.

I would never get one of those bright green plastic "eco warrior" pod car things.

EDIT: I think the main reason i'd go for the bio fuel idea is more of a selfish reason, people with petrol cars are fvcked if the garages are dry (remember uk fuel crisis?) with a bio fuel equipped diesel i could simply use some vegetable oil, central heating oil (mixed with normal diesel) etc.
 
CptStern said:
actually it's the opposite ..read it again, I'm advocating wiping out whitey not the other way around. I'm white and live in the 1st world I'm advocating killing myself/ourselves because we are the problem
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My really dumb post alert went off when I saw that. arent you the one who always posts about how bad killing is and how the US shouldnt fight wars and you are advocating genocide and killing off millions/billions of innocent people...
 
OH COME ON!! Everybody has to start panicing because polar bears died because of ice melting.

NEWSFLASH!!!! The earth is constantly changing. There are earthquakes everyday, Volcanic activity everyday...and ICE MELTING everyday.

Global warming is not caused by humans...but there is a theory...and let me be clear..THEORY!! that Humans are accelerating global warming.

But I believe it's too late to do anything. Even if you stopped all the emissions around the whole world right now, it would change NOTHING, because the emissions stay in the atmosphere for at least 100 years.

You have nothing to worry about until 4000 feet fire columns start shooting out of the bermuda triangle near Florida, (because of the high concentration of solid methane just underneath the ocean floor). Then you can make this a big deal.
 
Zeus said:
My really dumb post alert went off when I saw that. arent you the one who always posts about how bad killing is and how the US shouldnt fight wars and you are advocating genocide and killing off millions/billions of innocent people...
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Millions of people will die due to climate change anyway so, it's a case of striking a balance.
You know they cull some animals to actually help them survive? some animals will reproduce too fast and use up all food supply if not controlled and all die.
 
CptStern said:
actually it's the opposite ..read it again, I'm advocating wiping out whitey not the other way around. I'm white and live in the 1st world I'm advocating killing myself/ourselves because we are the problem
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You're white? Your picture looked like you were more of a middle eastern descent.

And by the way, I object to your discriminatory usage of 'whitey'.
 
yes I'm white, bad lighting ..or maybe it was my outfit :E
 
CptStern said:
yes I'm white, bad lighting ..or maybe it was my outfit :E
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It was actually more your skin color... I can't find the thread again. But still... your racism against whites is pretty rediculous. "Whitey" is an ethnic slur just like any other.
 
Raziaar said:
It was actually more your skin color... I can't find the thread again. But still... your racism against whites is pretty rediculous. "Whitey" is an ethnic slur just like any other.
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Well not really mate, he was refering to a certain type of white person.
...it wouldn't be including the poor whites of central europe etc.

It's like you can take the piss out of "black gangstas" without being really racist....your taking the piss out of how they act not their race...even if you use the word "nigga"
 
short recoil said:
Well not really mate, he was refering to a certain type of white person.
...it wouldn't be including the poor whites of central europe etc.

It's like you can take the piss out of "black gangstas" without being really racist....your taking the piss out of how they act not their race...even if you use the word "nigga"
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Still... the term itself is officially classified as a derogatory racial slur. And yes, I'm pretty sensitive about it from being called it often where I live.
 
Raziaar said:
It was actually more your skin color... I can't find the thread again. But still... your racism against whites is pretty rediculous. "Whitey" is an ethnic slur just like any other.
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racism against whites? I'm white
 
CptStern said:
racism against whites? I'm white
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<laughs> And that matters how? There's people all ethnicities that disparage their own race.

But if you didn't mean it in such a way, use another term instead of the one you chose. And yeah, i'm probably over-reacting about it, but still.
 
OH COME ON!! Everybody has to start panicing because polar bears died because of ice melting.

NEWSFLASH!!!! The earth is constantly changing. There are earthquakes everyday, Volcanic activity everyday...and ICE MELTING everyday.

Global warming is not caused by humans...but there is a theory...and let me be clear..THEORY!! that Humans are accelerating global warming.
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Well Im glad you brought that up, as the decline of the polar bears - ironically - may be the final proof of anthropogenic global warming (man-made climate change to you and I ).
How so? Well consider the polar bear is adapted to its enviroment(hands off those keyboards, creationists) and must have been around for at least an ice-age or two.
It then follows that if sudden climate change and the subsequent shift in its enviroment is something that it cannot adapt to, then it must be unprecedented in the existance of that species and not just part of a pattern of natural climate change.

NEWSFLASH: Its not a natural cycle, its effects are not limited to the cute fluffy animals and it is going to f*** us all up !

edit: added more bold goodness.
 
Raziaar said:
<laughs> And that matters how? There's people all ethnicities that disparage their own race.

But if you didn't mean it in such a way, use another term instead of the one you chose. And yeah, i'm probably over-reacting about it, but still.
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yes you are, I'm not retracting what I said ...can we get back to the polar bears now?
 
D:

? is that a guy frowning or a guy wearing a teacup on his head cuz I never could tell :E
 
short recoil said:
It's a self supplying problem.
As i said before each person wants a house/car/family.
If you remove the weaker 75% the pattern shifts so in the 25% left you still have people working labour and people owning business etc.
And i'm mainly talking about strength of genetics/survival ability (wether "natural" or "modern world" style survival)
An instant solution to overpopulation and pollution.

I'm pretty sure nature will come up with something soon anyway, exagerrated by the way humans live these days.
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Actually poor people generally have better survivability than rich people. Poor people don't always eat the cleanest/sanitary food...don't have all kinds of medicine. So their immune system builds up to protect them. So perhaps we would have the labourers left and none of the management. I hereby declare myself president of all companies.
 
SAJ said:
Well Im glad you brought that up, as the decline of the polar bears - ironically - may be the final proof of anthropogenic global warming (man-made climate change to you and I ).
How so? Well consider the polar bear is adapted to its enviroment(hands off those keyboards, creationists) and must have been around for at least an ice-age or two.
It then follows that if sudden climate change and the subsequent shift in its enviroment is something that it cannot adapt to, then it must be unprecedented in the existance of that species and not just part of a pattern of natural climate change.

NEWSFLASH: Its not a natural cycle, its effects are not limited to the cute fluffy animals and it is going to f*** us all up !

edit: added more bold goodness.
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Like I said, people get scared when they hear news like this. But I see it as a change..that's it. If the earth is going to become a burning fireball...then so be it. And humans are accelerating global warming. It's happened before and Will happen again. You gotta stop worrying cause there is nothing we can do about it. That's life on a living planet. Get used to it. And about that adaptation thing...life always adapts no matter what. People are so scared of change.

And it IS a natural effect..it's happened at least 6 times before in the earth's history. Only this time...it's gonna be longer and a lot more painful. As I said before..too late to change now.
 
Like I said, people get scared when they hear news like this. But I see it as a change..that's it. If the earth is going to become a burning fireball...then so be it. And humans are accelerating global warming. It's happened before and Will happen again. You gotta stop worrying cause there is nothing we can do about it. That's life on a living planet. Get used to it. And about that adaptation thing...life always adapts no matter what. People are so scared of change.

And it IS a natural effect..it's happened at least 6 times before in the earth's history. Only this time...it's gonna be longer and a lot more painful. As I said before..too late to change now.
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I would agree with everything you just wrote - if(and only if) there was a natural reason for the increase in greenhouse gases.
If the the reasons for man-made climate change were connected with the very survival of homo sapiens, then there would be an arguement for carrying on as we are doing.
But the sad fact is our survival isnt dependant on our emissions (quite possibly the opposite) and we can do something about it, right now.

Stern; hes still doing them now, read them online at http://www.tmcm.com/
 
SAJ said:
I would agree with everything you just wrote - if(and only if) there was a natural reason for the increase in greenhouse gases.
If the the reasons for man-made climate change were connected with the very survival of homo sapiens, then there would be an arguement for carrying on as we are doing.
But the sad fact is our survival isnt dependant on our emissions (quite possibly the opposite) and we can do something about it, right now.

Stern; hes still doing them now, read them online at http://www.tmcm.com/
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Let me explain the natural reasons so we can close this argument.

Underneath the oceans there are these deposits of solid methane called methane hydroxide. When the ocean gets warm enough, these methane deposits turn into methane gas and rise to the surface of the ocean and head on into the atmosphere. Methane is a much more effective greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, about 300% more effecient keeping the heat in the atmosphere.

When some methane is released it heats up the earth a little bit, that heating up causes more methane to be released, and then more is released and so on, creating an effect that is similar to how an atomic bomb works (when one neutron strikes an atom the atom breaks and then 2 more neutrons are created which strike other atoms causing more neutrons to be released and so on).

When there is enough heat to heat up the ocean to a specific temprature, the methane starts to really come up and starts to warm up the earth tremendously. It gets so intense, and so much methane is release at once, that when all that methane hits the oxygen in the air, it bursts in the flames. Scientists believe, in the past, that there were 4000 feet columns of flames caused by the methane gas, shooting out of the ocean.

We are heading towards that point. Humans are releasing millions of tons of carbion dioxide into the atmosphere, the earth warms up a little bit, the methane starts to release, causing a reaction that cannot be stopped. It's already begun and will continue until the global warming effect peaks at it's maxium. Global warming does occur by itself...we humans are just helping it to arrive faster than it would otherwize...but it's still a natural thing.
 
Let me explain the natural reasons so we can close this argument.

Underneath the oceans there are these deposits of solid methane called methane hydroxide. When the ocean gets warm enough, these methane deposits turn into methane gas and rise to the surface of the ocean and head on into the atmosphere. Methane is a much more effective greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, about 90% more effecient keeping the heat in the atmosphere.

When some methane is released it heats up the earth a little bit, that heating up causes more methane to be released, and then more is released and so on, creating an effect that is similar to how an atomic bomb works (when one neutron strikes an atom the atom breaks and then 2 more neutrons are created which strike other atoms causing more neutrons to be released and so on).

When there is enough heat to heat up the ocean to a specific temprature, the methane starts to really come up and starts to warm up the earth tremendously. It gets so intense, and so much methane is release at once, that when all that methane hits the oxygen in the air, it bursts in the flames. Scientists believe, in the past, that there were 4000 feet columns of flames caused by the methane gas, shooting out of the ocean.

We are heading towards that point. Humans are releasing millions of tons of carbion dioxide into the atmosphere, the earth warms up a little bit, the methane starts to release, causing a reaction that cannot be stopped. It's already begun and will continue until the global warming effect peaks at it's maxium. Global warming does occur by itself...we humans are just helping it to arrive faster than it would otherwize...but it's still a natural thing.
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Setting fire to a house is not same thing as a house spontaniously combusting.
 
SAJ said:
Setting fire to a house is not same thing as a house spontaniously combusting.
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That statement should be read: Setting fire to a house is not the same thing as setting a fire to a house with fire accelerant in it. Humans are just acceleating a naturally occuring event, that would happen anyway, even if humans were not here, it would just take longer to occur.
 
No I think the analogy is pretty much spot on.
Just because the house has the potential to burn, it doesnt follow that lighting a match to it makes the act of arson natural.

Semantics aside, just because in theory it could happen naturally doesnt make it ok.
Look at it this way; the sun will turn into a giant in x-billion years and burn up the earth. I think we would be pretty pissed if we caused that to happen tomorrow.
 
SAJ said:
No I think the analogy is pretty much spot on.
Just because the house has the potential to burn, it doesnt follow that lighting a match to it makes the act of arson natural.

Semantics aside, just because in theory it could happen naturally doesnt make it ok.
Look at it this way; the sun will turn into a giant in x-billion years and burn up the earth. I think we would be pretty pissed if we caused that to happen tomorrow.
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Well..humans have a very strong impact on the earth...all that I'm saying is the warming of the earth will happen it really doesn't matter how fast it comes, it's gonna happen...but I agree we should decrease our emissions, so that day can be pushed back...and for the health of the humans and the animals.

The sun thing is a very funny point. But goes far beyond the bounds of global warming. It was still funny to think of though.
 
Well..humans have a very strong impact on the earth...all that I'm saying is the warming of the earth will happen it really doesn't matter how fast it comes, it's gonna happen...but I agree we should decrease our emissions, so that day can be pushed back...and for the health of the humans and the animals.
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Agreed, now bed calls and I cannot resist its siren`s call.
 
gh0st said:
maybe peta should give them swimming lessons.
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I thought polar bears already knew how to swim. Maybe peta isn't doing their job...
 
i would just like to object to the use of the word "nigga" that was used in this thread. though i am not black it surely offends them.

i seem to recall ennui making quite a big deal out of it when i said it - "even jokingly".
 
gh0st said:
hey awesome pi mu rho has something to say. i dont remember putting a stupid laughing smilie at the end of mine or making any attempt to be funny. but apparently that transcends your understanding, so we'll leave it at that.
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Oh please, spare me your attempts at trying to take some kind of intellectual high ground. Your comment was intended as a "joke". Or are you really trying to say that you genuinely think that PETA should give the polar bears swimming lessons? Please say that's what you think.

Thanks for calling me "awesome" by the way. I wouldn't usually mind, but your hero-worship makes me feel a little uncomfortable.
 
Raziaar said:
Kill us all? I don't think so. Temperatures will fluctuate, ocean levels will rise. Even without man, changes like this have happened to the earth, so why do you feel the need to exercise even MORE dominance over earth to change whatever cycle's its going through to correct itself? It'd be akin to stunting the growth of a child just so he doesn't get big enough to beat you up some day. <chuckles>
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But that's a flawed analogy; what we're doing (*intend do do) is damage control on an acceleration caused by our CO2 production. There's nothing 'stunting' about reducing CO2 emissions.

Everyone making the point that we're simply bringing closer an inevitability needs to look at their standing a different way; you've accepted that climate change is happening, but fail to understand that our intervention could accelerate it to an extent that we might not survive
 
jondy said:
But that's a flawed analogy; what we're doing (*intend do do) is damage control on an acceleration caused by our CO2 production. There's nothing 'stunting' about reducing CO2 emissions.

Everyone making the point that we're simply bringing closer an inevitability needs to look at their standing a different way; you've accepted that climate change is happening, but fail to understand that our intervention could accelerate it to an extent that we might not survive
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The reason we're thinking about global pollution, you gotta admit, mainly stems from the fact that we're trying to save our own hides... not the earth.

And no, I haven't failed to understand that our pollutions accelerate it. I've already said this in this thread, go back and read.

The earth would be going through these changes very likely without us, just at a different point in history, and perhaps to a lesser severity, but the main reason we want to slow or stop the cycle, is because we're selfish, not because we have some deep, great respect for the earth.

The majority of people anyways.
 
There's nothing wrong with saving the Earth for purely selfish reasons.

I postulate that every action that anyone does is selfish.

However, stopping global warming by reducing emissions is a lot less selfish than polluting the atmosphere to the point where everything dies out.
 
kirovman said:
There's nothing wrong with saving the Earth for purely selfish reasons.

I postulate that every action that anyone does is selfish.

However, stopping global warming by reducing emissions is a lot less selfish than polluting the atmosphere to the point where everything dies out.
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And I agree... protecting the earth is a noble cause and something we should actively pursue. I certainly don't like living in smog infested cities where the pollution distorts the atmosphere and the sun's rays into an unnatural appearance.

However... changing temperatures and rising sea levels are less troubling for me than the thick, hazy pollution I have to breathe in every day.
 
Yeah, I'm quite glad I don't live in a smoggy place, I've been to cities like that, it's terrible.

Interesting quote out of Civ 4:
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
 
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