Politicians pissing me off

[Fender357]

Ok....so this morning I go to check my e-mail........when what do I see but Eli and Alex looking at my from my news section.......

And then they tell me games are too violent...

And then I get sad that they used a pic from HL2 to show that video games are too violent.

I get really annoyed by politicians going crazy about games. I understand that young children shouldn't be playing very violent games....but it really should be the perants job to make sure they don't. They need to stop blaming the makers of games for the couple of psyco kids out there that needed to have a good couple of smacks to the head to get some sense into them.

 

[CptStern]

dont worry ..in the article it says most of the critics opposed to video games have never played one

it's the same sort of argument they've been using for years...although sometimes it works (senates hearings in the 50's about violent comic books all but destroyed the comic book industry)

 

[ShadowFox]

Meh.. in about 20-30 years all politicians will have played video games.

 

[Fender357]

Meh.. in about 20-30 years all politicians will have played video games.

Hah.......thats a great thing to think about.

 

[Andy]

Meh.. in about 20-30 years all politicians will have played video games.

At which point the argument will have ended itself...

 

[brink's]

Thats not even a violent pic lol.

 

[Fender357]

Thats not even a violent pic lol.

Exactomundolicious

 

[SnowBall]

Its such an ignorant statement to say violent movies and video games cause violence in teens. The problem isnt with the movies/games, its with the parents. I started playing Half-Life when I was 12, and I've played just about every violent game there is. Heck, I love Soldier of Fortune. But you know what? I've never considered replicating any acts of violence because of movies or games. Know why? Because I was raised well. I've had a great childhood, and my parents clearly stated right from wrong to me.
Kids who do crap like this usually either have problems in the family (serperated or divorcing parents, or the family doesnt give much attention to their children, or abuse). I guarantee anyone with a good family and good background wont be doing stupid crap.

 

[Foxtrot]

Its such an ignorant statement to say violent movies and video games cause violence in teens. The problem isnt with the movies/games, its with the parents. I started playing Half-Life when I was 12, and I've played just about every violent game there is. Heck, I love Soldier of Fortune. But you know what? I've never considered replicating any acts of violence because of movies or games. Know why? Because I was raised well. I've had a great childhood, and my parents clearly stated right from wrong to me.
Kids who do crap like this usually either have problems in the family (serperated or divorcing parents, or the family doesnt give much attention to their children, or abuse). I guarantee anyone with a good family and good background wont be doing stupid crap.

Violent games can still make you do things though, well it won't make you do things but it will influence you. Like a funny line from a movie, the little kiddies like to repeat it over and over and somtimes it is an action from the movie, well what if they have bad judgement and hurt somebody? But I don't think watching The Matrix will make you go an shoot up your school.

 

[Fender357]

Its such an ignorant statement to say violent movies and video games cause violence in teens. The problem isnt with the movies/games, its with the parents. I started playing Half-Life when I was 12, and I've played just about every violent game there is. Heck, I love Soldier of Fortune. But you know what? I've never considered replicating any acts of violence because of movies or games. Know why? Because I was raised well. I've had a great childhood, and my parents clearly stated right from wrong to me.
Kids who do crap like this usually either have problems in the family (serperated or divorcing parents, or the family doesnt give much attention to their children, or abuse). I guarantee anyone with a good family and good background wont be doing stupid crap.

I wouldn't neciserily say that kids from devorced perants or that didn't get much attention are the ones that do stupid stuff because of games.


I came from a consistantly screwed up family life that sucked constantly till my perants got devorced when i was 12.

I'm just saying that the devorced perants kids are the crazy ones thing isn't really true.

Its just all about how the kids are raised.

Despite everything sucking my mom and dad made sure I knew right from wrong and all that.

Its the perants that would let their kids buy bloody games in the first place that you need to look out for. If they're letting their kids buy the games you can be pretty sure they havn't been paying enough attention to them to make sure they know right from wrong.



And even kids from just totaly screwed up families can come out fine on their own knowing whats right and wrong.


Well...end-o-rant.....

 

[ACLeroK212]

video games are just the scape goat for lazy parents who want to pass off responsibility instead of focusing on their own faults.

"Hey little Billy just beat some kid up with a baseball bat. Oh well, let's just blame that GTA and get my local polititian to do all the dirty work for me."

 

[Fender357]

Violent games can still make you do things though, well it won't make you do things but it will influence you. Like a funny line from a movie, the little kiddies like to repeat it over and over and somtimes it is an action from the movie, well what if they have bad judgement and hurt somebody? But I don't think watching The Matrix will make you go an shoot up your school.

But how different is that from kids playing Cowboys and Indians at school? Kids do immitate things alot, but if their smart enough, they know they don't need real guns, they just use their hands!!!


I think its because kids are loosing their imaginations really early on. They can't play fight, so they just try and actualy fight.

 

[Gunner]

Kids are stupid, that's why they need their parents to look after them. Video games are not to blame, the parents however are responsible.

 

[CptStern]

there are warning labels for a reason...I'm not for censoring but there are some movies/games kids shouldnt watch/play. Dont know if there was a "mature" rating on HL but if there was and your parents bought it for you at the age of 12 then your aparents are being negligent. Just as you wouldnt want your 12 year old to see I dont know...an ultra violent movie with an "R" rating so shouldnt you expose your kids to violent games. A 12 year old shouldnt be playing Manhunt but there is no reason to censor it, just make it hard for kids who are underage to get ahold of it. I'll probably get some flack for this but I dont think young kids should be playing ultra violent video games ...oh btw I'm a father and I'll make sure to guide my son into the world of gaming and steer him away from games like Postal2 till he's ready for it

 

[SnowBall]

Get the kids to take up paintball or airsoft.

 

[ACLeroK212]

there are warning labels for a reason...I'm not for censoring but there are some movies/games kids shouldnt watch/play. Dont know if there was a "mature" rating on HL but if there was and your parents bought it for you at the age of 12 then your aparents are being negligent. Just as you wouldnt want your 12 year old to see I dont know...an ultra violent movie with an "R" rating so shouldnt you expose your kids to violent games. A 12 year old shouldnt be playing Manhunt but there is no reason to censor it, just make it hard for kids who are underage to get ahold of it. I'll probably get some flack for this but I dont think young kids should be playing ultra violent video games ...oh btw I'm a father and I'll make sure to guide my son into the world of gaming and steer him away from games like Postal2 till he's ready for it

I wouldn't go as far as saying his parents were negligent just for buying him Half-Life when he was 12. Not all 12 year olds are exactly the same. All kids mature and interpret information differently, it's just up to the parents to UNDERSTAND their kid.

Kind of the same thing with the drinking laws. I know 18 and 19 year olds that are more responsible than most 30+ year olds when it comes to drinking, but still aren't allowed to. It all comes down to the individual, and when considering video games, parents need to evaluate their kid on an individual level and not just do things because it's seems acceptable because other parents are doing the same for their kids.

 

[CptStern]

I wouldn't go as far as saying his parents were negligent just for buying him Half-Life when he was 12. Not all 12 year olds are exactly the same. All kids mature and interpret information differently, it's just up to the parents to UNDERSTAND their kid.

Kind of the same thing with the drinking laws. I know 18 and 19 year olds that are more responsible than most 30+ year olds when it comes to drinking, but still aren't allowed to.

yes but you wouldnt give a 12 year old a glass of wine. There are just some things a 12 year old should play...I'd have a hard time finding anyone who would agree that showing a child a pornographic movie is ok. There are just some things kids are not ready for.

 

[ACLeroK212]

yes but you wouldnt give a 12 year old a glass of wine. There are just some things a 12 year old should play...I'd have a hard time finding anyone who would agree that showing a child a pornographic movie is ok. There are just some things kids are not ready for.

i agree, but again that should be left up to the parents (hopefully responsible ones) to decide. playing half-life when your 12 hardly qualifies ones parents as negligible though. i viewed movies far worse than a game of half-life when i was that age, and my view on shooting people isn't any more relaxed than any other normal person. heck, playing mortal kombat when i was 11 or 12 didn't make me think it was acceptable to run around trying to rip peoples heads off or hearts out.

 

[CptStern]

i agree, but again that should be left up to the parents (hopefully responsible ones) to decide. playing half-life when your 12 hardly qualifies ones parents as negligible though. i viewed movies far worse than a game of half-life when i was that age, and my view on shooting people isn't any more relaxed than any other normal person. heck, playing mortal kombat when i was 11 or 12 didn't make me think it was acceptable to run around trying to rip peoples heads off or hearts out.

I'm not saying that if you watch/play these games/movies you'll run out and hack someone to bits. But what I am saying is that young children do not understand the implication of ultra or realistic violence just like they wouldnt fully comprehend a sexual act.

Again I didnt mean to pick on HL as I dont know what rating if any it recieved ...but HL is not the same as say Soldier of fortune where you literally see people cut in half. It's hypocritical in the western world for media to block out images of sex and nudity yet allow decapitations and disembowelments especially for young impressionable kids. I'd rather let my son see frontal nudity than a decapitation

 

[Gunner]

yes but you wouldnt give a 12 year old a glass of wine. There are just some things a 12 year old should play...I'd have a hard time finding anyone who would agree that showing a child a pornographic movie is ok. There are just some things kids are not ready for.

Stern! Never use the words "pornography" and "child" in the same sentence, you'll get us all busted lol!

 

[CptStern]

Stern! Never use the words "pornography" and "child" in the same sentence, you'll get us all busted lol!

nah, the few religious nuts we get in these forums (you know, that guy who called christianity the great white whore) will probably agree with me (oh dear GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!...I agree with religious nutbars!!!! I might as well just slit my wrists right now )

oh btw Para..you used child and pron in the same sentence...just thought I'd point that out

 

[ACLeroK212]

It's hypocritical in the western world for media to block out images of sex and nudity yet allow decapitations and disembowelments especially for young impressionable kids

let's not turn this into some "our region of the world is better than yours" kind of arguement. it's just as hypocritical that other regions of the world ban viewing of such material altogether yet expose their children to constant fighting and wars over religion and territory every day. Hell, in most parts of the world children not even young enough to view this material (by todays standards) have actually fought in wars. Todays censorship is very far from perfect, but when all things considered the ammount of violence children are exposed to could be (and has been) a lot worse.

 

[CptStern]

let's not turn this into some "our region of the world is better than yours" kind of arguement. it's just as hypocritical that other regions of the world ban viewing of such material altogether yet expose their children to constant fighting and wars over religion and territory every day. Hell, in most parts of the world children not even young enough to view this material (by todays standards) have actually fought in wars. Todays censorship is very far from perfect, but when all things considered the ammount of violence children are exposed to could be (and has been) a lot worse.

I live in North america..so it's not about "our region of the world is better than yours"

still you have to admit that only in a secular country (or the US) would showing a part of the female anotomy on tv be such a big deal

 

[Foxtrot]

Germany(maybe most of Europe too) is the opposite of America(Maybe Canada too, IDK), they allow nudity but don't allow violence.

 

[CptStern]

Germany(maybe most of Europe too) is the opposite of America(Maybe Canada too, IDK), they allow nudity but don't allow violence.

that's the other extreme ...I dont agree with censorship

 

[Raxxman]

its funny if you consider the fact that parents are only just allowed to smack their children, the cane has been removed from school, if you attempt to disapline a young child you are labled as a tyrant or a bully. Yet with all this betterment society is on a slope with the bottom getting worse and worse. There are lots of possible reasons for the degredation of society, the 60's for one. But you don't see people trying to ban hippies for promoting reckless use of mind altering drugs and loose sexual practices. No, it must be video games.

Oh and on the wine thing. Much as I don't like the place, its rather common place for children to drink the occasional glass of wine in France, and do they have a raging alcholoic problem?

Another point. While more people per persons have tried Hash in Amsterdam, there are less regular users than in the UK (read this in a new scientist review before someone calls Bulldropings, if you have proof its wrong then put up or shut up.)

So what I'm kinda alluring too is these things are such a big deal. I mean if you're able to drink occasonally at the age of 14-15 do you think you'll be more likely to rush out and get blathered when you hit a higher legal age? or would you be more like 'Yeah I can drink more now, so what?'

 

[CptStern]

its funny if you consider the fact that parents are only just allowed to smack their children, the cane has been removed from school, if you attempt to disapline a young child you are labled as a tyrant or a bully. Yet with all this betterment society is on a slope with the bottom getting worse and worse. There are lots of possible reasons for the degredation of society, the 60's for one. But you don't see people trying to ban hippies for promoting reckless use of mind altering drugs and loose sexual practices. No, it must be video games.

you're not allowed to hit your child ...ever. A parent who uses assualt as a form of discipline should be locked up ...I'm not talking about a smack in the rear end. It's far easier to smack a kid then teach him right from wrong. If you do your job correctly there is never a need to hit your child

oh and it's offensive for you to say: "There are lots of possible reasons for the degredation of society, the 60's for one. "

without the 60's and "hippies" there wouldnt have been a civil rights movement (remember it didnt become such a big issue till whites started to protest along with blacks), or woman's rights...the hippie culture and the 60's was a step forward from the repressive 60's

Oh and on the wine thing. Much as I don't like the place, its rather common place for children to drink the occasional glass of wine in France, and do they have a raging alcholoic problem?

an occasional sip of wine isnt the same as drining a bottle...I'm from a european family, I tried wine at an early age but it was always mixed with gingerale and there was very little wine in the glass ...my parents were turning me into a responsible drunk

 

[Edcrab]

As a human being I'm sick of hearing "blame the parents" in any given scenario. There's free-bloody-dom of choice in our society and our species as a whole. I feel no different now than I did when I was 16, or even 12.

I'm an avid gamer and my parents smacked me when I was younger. They did not smack my antisocial teenage sister, who now has no interest in computers past chat rooms. She is selfish, unintelligent with no concept of the abstract, and has been in trouble with the police several times. I am yet to get so much as a parking ticket.

Bottom line is, people react in different ways to different stimulus. Genetics and a poor upbringing may contribute, exposure to violent media may well cause some sort of influence, but the simple fact is we need to banish the rampant scapegoatism inherent in this world that we all live in and realise that some people are just inconsiderate idiots.

 

[SubKamran]

Its such an ignorant statement to say violent movies and video games cause violence in teens. The problem isnt with the movies/games, its with the parents. I started playing Half-Life when I was 12, and I've played just about every violent game there is. Heck, I love Soldier of Fortune. But you know what? I've never considered replicating any acts of violence because of movies or games. Know why? Because I was raised well. I've had a great childhood, and my parents clearly stated right from wrong to me.
Kids who do crap like this usually either have problems in the family (serperated or divorcing parents, or the family doesnt give much attention to their children, or abuse). I guarantee anyone with a good family and good background wont be doing stupid crap.

That's the exact same with me. I grew up on DOOM, Quake, Rise of the Triad, Half-Life...hell, even my brother plays killing games and he's 10.

I just think it's a load of crap. Stupid f'in old farts complaining about good 'ol video games..."Oh wow, this teenage killer plays violent video games, nevermind that 90% of teens play video games lololomgkthxbye."

 

[Raxxman]

you're not allowed to hit your child ...ever. A parent who uses assualt as a form of discipline should be locked up ...I'm not talking about a smack in the rear end. It's far easier to smack a kid then teach him right from wrong. If you do your job correctly there is never a need to hit your child

See you've misread the intent of my message. The only just comment is because yesterday or the day before, the House of Lords rejected a bill to completely ban smacking. Basically what the bill detailed is that anyone who made any physical contact with a child (including a rap behind the ear, smacked arse ect) could do jail time. Personally I think that just idiotic. I was smacked as a child (not much, I was a good boy ) and again I think I'm a balanced individual, I certainly haven't gone on any killing sprees.

oh and it's offensive for you to say: "There are lots of possible reasons for the degredation of society, the 60's for one. "

Ah but its offensive to say anything, as long as the person who hears you takes offence. Difference is when there's truth in the word. Course you can argue what is truth, and truth is all about perspective.

without the 60's and "hippies" there wouldnt have been a civil rights movement (remember it didnt become such a big issue till whites started to protest along with blacks), or woman's rights...the hippie culture and the 60's was a step forward from the repressive 60's

While you can argue many valid points that the 60's have given society, there are problems in todays society that could stem from the 60's. I did say lots of possible, key word possible, people often state the best parts of things past, the whole picture isn't so rosey. Again I wasn't actually attacking the 60's (well I was but the intent wasn't to spill mud on the 60's, more to show that that there are dozens of possible reasons for things being the way they are, just sharks.... I mean politicians always go for the vote pleaser. No parent wants to be told 'The reason your child is a tear-away renegade is because you as the parent are not forfulling your role'.

an occasional sip of wine isnt the same as drining a bottle...I'm from a european family, I tried wine at an early age but it was always mixed with gingerale and there was very little wine in the glass ...my parents were turning me into a responsible drunk

again not picking a fight, but France and many european countries have a much lower teenage alcohol problem per child compared to the UK and the US. Just a cold hard fact. I was allowed to drink small amounts of alcohol by the age of 15-16 (like half a pint of lager or such) and I don't feel it made me a worse person for it. Nowadays I hardly drink, only one or two pints a week tops (well not strickly true, I have been known to have a few more on occasion, but I've yet to wake up in a gutter covered in my own.. you know).

 

[ACLeroK212]

As a human being I'm sick of hearing "blame the parents" in any given scenario. There's free-bloody-dom of choice in our society and our species as a whole. I feel no different now than I did when I was 16, or even 12.

I'm an avid gamer and my parents smacked me when I was younger. They did not smack my antisocial teenage sister, who now has no interest in computers past chat rooms. She is selfish, unintelligent with no concept of the abstract, and has been in trouble with the police several times. I am yet to get so much as a parking ticket.

Bottom line is, people react in different ways to different stimulus. Genetics and a poor upbringing may contribute, exposure to violent media may well cause some sort of influence, but the simple fact is we need to banish the rampant scapegoatism inherent in this world that we all live in and realise that some people are just inconsiderate idiots.

we're not exactly saying blame the parents.

we're saying the parents need to stop blaming the media and video games when they're children screw up and start taking more initiative in their childrens lives themselves instead of leaving others such as politicians to do it for them.

 

[Foxtrot]

I wrote a paper on this, there was some crazy bitch I quoted a bunch, she is on a crusade against video games or somthing....I will try to find her article it is hilarious.
Here is the crazy bitch:
http://larouchein2004.net/pages/other/2002/020625hzlbrazil.htm

 

[Edcrab]

And I'm not exactly trying to point the finger at people for blaming the parents who don't blame themselves and instead blame something closer to hand... gah, I confuse myself.

Just detailing a deeply held belief that scapegoatism of any sort is someday going to kill everything that makes us free humans.

 

[CptStern]

smacking a child is all about control. It does nothing for the child except re-inforce that's it's ok to hit people. The problem here is : where do you (they) draw the line? how do you distinguish a smack from a cuff to the back of the head.

While you can argue many valid points that the 60's have given society, there are problems in todays society that could stem from the 60's. I did say lots of possible, key word possible, people often state the best parts of things past, the whole picture isn't so rosey.

I think that you can apply that to any decade. The 50's were morally repressive; one could argue that some of today's ills stem from from that era.

again not picking a fight, but France and many european countries have a much lower teenage alcohol problem per child compared to the UK and the US. Just a cold hard fact. I was allowed to drink small amounts of alcohol by the age of 15-16 (like half a pint of lager or such) and I don't feel it made me a worse person for it.

in this we are in complete agreement.

 

[slicktick]

Its such an ignorant statement to say violent movies and video games cause violence in teens. The problem isnt with the movies/games, its with the parents. I started playing Half-Life when I was 12, and I've played just about every violent game there is. Heck, I love Soldier of Fortune. But you know what? I've never considered replicating any acts of violence because of movies or games. Know why? Because I was raised well. I've had a great childhood, and my parents clearly stated right from wrong to me.
Kids who do crap like this usually either have problems in the family (serperated or divorcing parents, or the family doesnt give much attention to their children, or abuse). I guarantee anyone with a good family and good background wont be doing stupid crap.

Amen to this, its all in the upbringing, not just a video game that a kid played.

And another thing, why a picture of HL2, its not even mentioned in the article.

 

[Fender357]

yes but you wouldnt give a 12 year old a glass of wine. There are just some things a 12 year old should play...I'd have a hard time finding anyone who would agree that showing a child a pornographic movie is ok. There are just some things kids are not ready for.

See.......this just adds on to my point that even if your perants screw up alot, the kid can come out ok...

When I was about 8 my dad showed me a porn insted of giving me any formal "talk".

All he did was fast forward between the parts that weren't exactly how babys were made (like the guy spanking the girl) and just sorta said, " thats sex, thats not sex.. thats sex.... "
[sarcasm]
What a fun childhood I had :thumbs: [/sarcasm]

Back to the point......... I'm not screwed up. Don't know how, but I'm fine.

And that does go to show that... NO, you shouldn't show an 8 year old porn.....but some kids are different and can at least handle some of this crap.

So..... NO, young kids shouldn't be playing bloody bloody gore gore games....but some can handle it and still end up mentaly stable. Its up to the perants to know what their kids can handle...or to enfoce what they at least THINK their kids can hangle.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Don't worry people, media will choose another subject after videogames.. it used to be violent movies, don't you remember?

 

[SnowBall]

First shooter I played was Duke 3d, then Quake, then HL. I'm quite sane really. *twitches*

 

[Hazar]

I played HL when I was 12. I haven't gone on any killing sprees or anything like that. In fact, I'm one of the most pacifist guy in our school.

HL wasn't ultra bad on the violence level (espically with parental control on) like SOF was, the gibbing was obviously fake and was more of a thing to laugh at. Although HL2 will be worse when it comes to violence, due to the improvement in graphics and physics, it still won't be the cause of murders. It may contribute to a delinquent kid who's part of a divorce family that doesn't love him but it won't be the sole cause of any homicides.

 

[B_MAN]

it wont go anywhere
games will always be made
and we'll always be free to play them as we choose
at least in the free world