PR Blunders: Valve vs. Id

[Democritus]

Managing expectations/perceptions of games has got to be a nightmare for game companies. Both Valve and Id have made some really good and some really "interesting" (questionable) PR decisions, IMO. So lets see if for my first post on this board I can offend everyone. I am excited for both games, BTW.

VALVE:
1. Saying how the game looked bad with AA enabled due to problems with video cards (*cough* NVIDIA *cough*) and then announcing a week later that the problem was fixed for all cards. Hrmmmm.

2. Announcing a firm release date, the ultimate expectation creator and the expectation that, in the gaming world, is most often not fulfilled. Still keeping my fingers crossed, though.

3. The lack of new content and information about a game that is *supposed* to be less than a month from going gold doesn't bode well and is killing some of the E3 momentum (I don't consider the Bink videos *new* as they have been seen before by anyone who cares about hl2). So far there isn't even an official Website worth visiting.

4. The Vivendi "miscommunication" about the supposed delay. Not so much a PR decision as an Ooops.

5. Not saying what multiplayer is. At first I thought, "they're waiting to spring something cool on us." As time drags on, I'm starting to think, "they didn't want to dim the glow of E3 by announcing lackluster MP options." The silence on MP is really weird (especially if the game is almost done).

ID
1. Annoucing the game was delayed AFTER HL2 was announced which made is SEEM (though I don't think its true) that the delay was a reaction to HL2

2. Not having a live demo at E3 and getting spanked by HL2 on all the show awards

3. Having a multiplayer demo running at 640X480 and that was still choppy in some places, according to reports. Everybody (me) was already freaked out about the performance of the thing, now its worse.

4. Four players only in multiplayer? I like to see people pretend that this is a "feature" and not a limitation. This is bad for game sales both from the game and engine side.

5. I've heard they had a lame physics demo with a white room and white boxes or something, but I've only heard stories.

Oddly, I think the best PR thing to happen to ID was unintentional: the leak of the Alpha. Everybody I've read that played it thought it was great. The best thing Valve did was keep their mouths shut for 5 years and then explode onto the scene.

Any that I missed? Who is winning the PR war?
*zips up asbestos suit*

 

[Dave]

Smart first post. Welcome to the forums.

 

[Majestic XII]

4. Four players only in multiplayer? I like to see people pretend that this is a "feature" and not a limitation. This is bad for game sales both from the game and engine side.

Doom 3 isnt a multiplayer game, its SP mainly... therefore no good MP support.

 

[CptTrips]

Excellent post! I almost whole-heartedly agree with you!

 

[Kaban]

I think HL2 handled marketing much better than ID. By not announcing the game until it was close to completion they eliminated fans howling for them for years. Doom 3 has been in development for less than HL2, yet it doesn't feel like it because nobody knew about HL2. So when D3 is delayed people are screaming "hl2 doesn't take this long" when in fact, the delay will bring development length of HL2 and Doom3 to about the same 5 years.

They never announced the game was delayed! Fans assumed it would be 2003. ID has always said "when it's done". Now they simply said "it won't be 2003". No delay. Fans made it up.

They took the best of show on E3 2002, so why bother on another year. I think they made a good choice to work on a game, and not a demo. It let HL2 shine as well.

Having a multiplayer run at 640x480 that looked better than anything running 1600x1200 right now might be considered as a positive marketing move. "Look, our game looks good even at low rez"
The choppiness was only reported by one site, I don't think it was all that visible, I believe it was someone being picky.

Four players is a limitation that ID blatantly saying can be surpassed very quickly by anyone who knows how to mod.

Misinformation seems to be ID Software's biggest grief.

 

[Murray]

Originally posted by Majestic XII
4. Four players only in multiplayer? I like to see people pretend that this is a "feature" and not a limitation. This is bad for game sales both from the game and engine side.

Doom 3 isnt a multiplayer game, its SP mainly... therefore no good MP support.

Yet, if it wants to compete with Half-Life 2 it should be great at both things, don't you think?

Welcome to the forums, Democritus!

 

[Ro@cH]

Good thinking, with the asbestos suit and all. (made me laugh hehe)

VALVe:
1) At least they're honest about it. something you can not always expect from companies.
2)The release date is one of the best PR strategies: I'm sure as hell watching the calendar on my wall (as if it was a ticking clock) and going "Come on!! Come on!! Faster!! Make it 30 Sept already!!"
3)Lack of content? The E3 video, the Bink videos, screenshots, interviews, concept art, e-mails from developers, Steam instant-messages from developers,etc That's ALOT of content compared to most other games
4) Yeah oops. But it kept the community sizzling with activity
5)It's to keep the comminity on it's toes. Is it TF2, is it just plain HL2 DM, is it something else? Speculation=discussion=attention=interest=profit!!!

iD
1)If it makes the game better, a delay is fine by me.
2)They chose to do it at QuakeCon instead of E3 methinks. Or they don't care about the awards, because they recon that they'll get the rewards AFTER the game is released, and that is what counts.
3)No comment
4)It's a choice they made. When they decided to develop a revolutionary engine, they also chose to make it MP-limited. It's a technical choice/limitation/goal.
5)They've got more tricks up their sleeve than physics, apparently.

Choices, choices, it's all down to free will, just like Keanu Reeves realises in The Devil's Advocate.

*roach blows his brains out*

 

[Typhon]

I agree with most of what you'd said but not #5 for valve. I don't think its even close to fair to say that because we haven't heard about it, it can't be good. Keep in mind that announcement like that usually come at big events and not out of the blue...so wait for the big one at the end of this month.I also think its foolish to assume that the most modable (and probably will be the most modded) game ever will have "lackluster MP"

edit: oh yeah, and welcome to the forums!

 

[Majestic XII]

Originally posted by Murray
Yet, if it wants to compete with Half-Life 2 it should be great at both things, don't you think?

Welcome to the forums, Democritus!

Maybe thay didnt know HL2 would come this soon?

 

[Democritus]

Originally posted by Typhon
I also think its foolish to assume that the most modable (and probably will be the most modded) game ever will have "lackluster MP"

I hope it is good, and with an engine like theirs there are some really nifty possibilities. I think the decision to keep it secret is a mistake, though. If we can drive vehicles and run people over in MP, then all the secrecy will be forgiven

 

[Murray]

Originally posted by Majestic XII
Maybe thay didnt know HL2 would come this soon?

Well, "thay" know now.
I mean, they're still in the middle of making it, right?

 

[Majestic XII]

Originally posted by Murray
Well, "thay" know now.
I mean, they're still in the middle of making it, right?

Yes, but i dont think they want to delay the game more and rewrite the engine.

 

[Murray]

I'll take that as a no, then, they're just about to finish it. :dork:

 

[supangr]

1. Saying how the game looked bad with AA enabled due to problems with video cards (*cough* NVIDIA *cough*) and then announcing a week later that the problem was fixed for all cards. Hrmmmm.

Why are you coughing "nvidia", all video cards had this problem. You'll lead a more satisfying life if you think for yourself instead of trying to impress people and hop on fudwagons..

 

[PLas]

i think keeping HL2 a secret for so long was such a good move by valve. At the beginning of this year HL2 was unheard of. Now BOOM. Love it. Almost made people wet themselves with anticipation. Good work valve

 

[OCybrManO]

Originally posted by Majestic XII
Maybe thay didnt know HL2 would come this soon?

I think HL2 took everyone by suprise... especially iD.

Originally posted by Democritus
I hope it is good, and with an engine like theirs there are some really nifty possibilities. I think the decision to keep it secret is a mistake, though. If we can drive vehicles and run people over in MP, then all the secrecy will be forgiven

Vehicles work in multiplayer and they are physically simulated... so if you hit someone hard enough you will kill them.

Personally, I think Valve has a lot of class... something rare for game developers. They don't give out so much media and answer so many questions that they give the story away and they don't tell anything but the capabilities of the engine in regards to multiplayer. I like a bit of mystery with my games. I want to say "Wow, I never thought they would have [some feature] in multiplayer."

Valve doesn't go out telling people that HL2 will be the most graphically/physically advanced game, listing all of its features, and trying to hype the game up... they just show you a few scenes of gameplay footage after five years of silence and answer tech questions.
They sit back and let the fans make all the hype... as it should be.
If anything, they are under-advertising Half-Life 2.

 

[Xcellere]

What a shitty first post.

 

[Democritus]

Originally posted by OCybrManO
I think HL2 took everyone by suprise... especially iD.

Vehicles work in multiplayer and they are physically simulated... so if you hit someone hard enough you will kill them.

Where was this talked about? Was this a Gabe email I missed? Awesome.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Democritus

VALVE:
1. Saying how the game looked bad with AA enabled due to problems with video cards (*cough* NVIDIA *cough*) and then announcing a week later that the problem was fixed for all cards. Hrmmmm.

What are you implying?

The problem wasn't just with NVIDIA cards and it wasn't just with Half Life 2. It occured in Quake 3 with AA enabled (Gabe said so). People made a huge deal out of this, but the reason he was explaining it because the videos didn't have AA enabled.

The thing about NVIDIA is because they had a solution for ATI cards but not NVIDIA cards, then they found a solution. Panic over. To them it was just a little thing to sort out, to a lot of the Half Life 2 community it was an excuse to post "OMG HALF LIFE TWO WONT WORK WITH NVIDIAD CARSD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111". People made too big a deal over it.

They are going to release some videos showing the problem, and then showing the solutions. Gabe has said this a number of times.

 

[DarKnyt]

3. Having a multiplayer demo running at 640X480 and that was still choppy in some places, according to reports. Everybody (me) was already freaked out about the performance of the thing, now its worse.

I could very well be wrong, but I thought I heard that the multiplayer demo they ran was only running on 2 ghz computers? They did use a 5900 I believe. It may have just been some site meaning they were using a 2ghz *range* computer. Either way it doesn't make sense to not use the latest and greatest.

Ah yes - here is the quote from gamespy :

According to id, the PCs running DOOM 3 multiplayer were 2 GHz machines with GeForce FX cards, and seemed to run smoothly enough considering the amazing level of detail in the game. There were moments of chop during firefights, but overall, the technical aspects of the game seem to be coming along well.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Democritus
Where was this talked about? Was this a Gabe email I missed? Awesome.

He talked about having vehicles in multiplayer where one person can steer and another shots. I think it's in the Source FAQ at the VERC Collective.

EDIT: It's here: http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=source_mod_faq#eng_14

They don't mention it being in Half Life 2 for certain but it's certainly moddable.

Nobody knows anything about Half Life 2 Multiplayer, but that doesn't mean that it's automatically bad.

 

[kill-9]

Originally posted by PLas
Almost made people wet themselves with anticipation.

Almost?

 

[Apos]

Four players is a limitation that ID blatantly saying can be surpassed very quickly by anyone who knows how to mod.

No, they actually said that it was due to the way the engine and MP are written: the peer to peer system does not scale up well, and having too many human-level-detailed players on the screen at any one time is just too much of a strain on even high end computers.

Personally, I don't think this is a bad thing PR or otherwise. They NEVER promised more than this, and it in and of itself seems like it'll be an interesting variation. Doom3 will not be the sort of widespread mass MP game that has become the standard, and that's okay. It'll be its own thing.

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by Democritus
Who is winning the PR war?
*zips up asbestos suit*

Hehe smart move buddy

There's no doubt about it: Valve has had better public relations, and has always been a mod-friendly company and that's enough to build a solid reputation.

 

[PLas]

Originally posted by kill-9
Almost?

ergh yuck kill-9.

 

[Xei]

Originally posted by Feath
Nobody knows anything about Half Life 2 Multiplayer, but that doesn't mean that it's automatically bad.

Yeah they're probably either staying quiet about it because its nothing much compared to the single player or they're hanging on to it to get it hyped up again as it gets released.
Hope it's the latter and I hope it's damn good

 

[Hudson]

it might be that they had barley started on the multiplayer component, and that they are actually doing the multiplayer code now

 

[T Goush]

Managing expectations/perceptions of games has got to be a nightmare for game companies.

Especially for sequels to two of the most popular PC games ever! So many people get so hyped up for these titles that any negetive announcement, no matter how small, can get blown out of proportion by the fans.

All things considered, I'd say both Valve and id have done a decent job with their PR. I mean, we could of had another 3DRealms / Duke Forever situation with either one of these games..... :x

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I think they kept multiplayer a secret because they want you to guess...We will find out whenever its released(this yr I hope) I hope its another DM....I want to throw some objects at a few idiots I know

 

[trantjd]

Originally posted by Kaban
They never announced the game was delayed! Fans assumed it would be 2003. ID has always said "when it's done". Now they simply said "it won't be 2003". No delay. Fans made it up.

Actually, they had said 2003 at one point. It was back in 2002 and at one of the shows Doom3 was showing at (I'm thinking E3, but I could be wrong) there were big Doom3 posters that said "Coming 2003" at the bottom. I remember it specifically because people had been hoping that the game would be out in 2002 until they saw that. Obviously it's not a concrete date, but what you were saying is incorrect. It wasn't fans, it was delayed from what id had said. Either way though, I don't hold id responsible for this. It's stupid to believe a release date that's first announced more than 4 months before the date, IMO (let's hope HL2 breaks my theory!).

Here's a Gamespot article about it: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/doom3/news_2866666.html

 

[Letters]

Originally posted by DiSTuRbEd
I want to throw some objects at a few idiots I know

Objects... hmmm...

 

[Cyber$nake]

ID made a Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Tides of War for Xbox which with xbox live could have 16 players...

 

[trantjd]

Originally posted by Kaban
They never announced the game was delayed! Fans assumed it would be 2003. ID has always said "when it's done". Now they simply said "it won't be 2003". No delay. Fans made it up.

Actually, they had said 2003 at one point. It was back in 2002 and at one of the shows Doom3 was showing at (I'm thinking E3, but I could be wrong) there were big Doom3 posters that said "Coming 2003" at the bottom. I remember it specifically because people had been hoping that the game would be out in 2002 until they saw that. Obviously it's not a concrete date, but what you were saying is incorrect. It wasn't fans, it was delayed from what id had said. Either way though, I don't hold id responsible for this. It's stupid to believe a release date that's first announced more than 4 months before the date, IMO (let's hope HL2 breaks my theory!).

Here's a Gamespot article about it: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/doom3/news_2866666.html

 

[HeatMiser]

Particularly in the case of #1 and possibly #4, I see the effects of a company that isn't afraid to let their employees speak directly to certain issues rather than having all communications filtered and managed by a marketing entity of some kind. We've all seen how forthcoming Gabe in particular has been in email communication, and other Valve developers are also clearly given much latitude in this area. It seems to me little "oops" moments are an unavoidable by-product of this relatively open atmosphere of communication, and I for one would hate to see Valve take the tack of only issuing carefully-worded press releases which had been screened for inconsistencies and possibly incautious phrasings.

I entirely agree with the original poster's observations, I just think the alternative might possibly be worse.

 

[Democritus]

Originally posted by HeatMiser
Particularly in the case of #1 and possibly #4, I see the effects of a company that isn't afraid to let their employees speak directly to certain issues rather than having all communications filtered and managed by a marketing entity of some kind. We've all seen how forthcoming Gabe in particular has been in email communication, and other Valve developers are also clearly given much latitude in this area. It seems to me little "oops" moments are an unavoidable by-product of this relatively open atmosphere of communication, and I for one would hate to see Valve take the tack of only issuing carefully-worded press releases which had been screened for inconsistencies and possibly incautious phrasings.

I entirely agree with the original poster's observations, I just think the alternative might possibly be worse.

Good point. You can certainly see why comapanies do filter their communications heavily, though. Even something as (relatively) minor as that AA comment caused quite a hooha. I think it's amazing that gabe actually answers fan email from time to time. I can't even begin to imagine how much crap he gets in his inbox. Maybe he filters out every message that has R0x0Rs and SUX0RS in the text.

 

[alehm]

Originally posted by Democritus


VALVE:

2. Announcing a firm release date, the ultimate expectation creator and the expectation that, in the gaming world, is most often not fulfilled. Still keeping my fingers crossed, though.

The way I see it, is the estimated release date is just that. An ESTIMATED release date. The game is unfinished and anything can happen to delay it. Gabe can say they are on target for a Sept 30 release date but he can't see the future and know for sure. Not until a game goes gold is a release date firm.

Games get delayed all the time, think of all pc games that have come out, now subtract how many games slipped past the original release date. You now have a significantly smaller amount of games that released on time, now from those on time games, subtract the games that should have been delayed a few more months because they were still buggy and unfinished... that is a worse PR blunder. I say Valve delay the game if you have to, release it when it is ready.

3. The lack of new content and information about a game that is *supposed* to be less than a month from going gold doesn't bode well and is killing some of the E3 momentum (I don't consider the Bink videos *new* as they have been seen before by anyone who cares about hl2). So far there isn't even an official Website worth visiting.

I would love to get new videos, knowing there are 50+ baddies and we only have seen a handle of them, however, keeping them a surprise and under wraps is fine with me, though I do admit, a bit painful because I want to know now, but I think I would be happier playing the game first hand experiencing everything then than watching videos all day.

5. Not saying what multiplayer is. At first I thought, "they're waiting to spring something cool on us." As time drags on, I'm starting to think, "they didn't want to dim the glow of E3 by announcing lackluster MP options." The silence on MP is really weird (especially if the game is almost done).

HL2 multiplayer is almost a different game in itself, we are talking CS 2, TF 2, and countless other mods that will be coming out once HL2 is released. I think them holding back on multiplayer is more of a keeping a trick up their sleeve.

If you had posted in January 2003 about HL2 single player saying "Valve is not saying anything about Half life 2, it's been 5 years, it is making me wonder that Valve has a lackluster game and keeping it hidden from the public. Then merely 4 months later.. BAM the E3 videos showing an awesome game proved you to be wrong.. I think Valve has a good handle on multiplayer.. they are just going to come out with it as another big punch when needed, especially since other major games in developement are intertwined with HL2's engine.

1. Annoucing the game was delayed AFTER HL2 was announced which made is SEEM (though I don't think its true) that the delay was a reaction to HL2


5. I've heard they had a lame physics demo with a white room and white boxes or something, but I've only heard stories.

I think these are two sides of a single coin. First no multiplayer and John Carmack making fun of rag doll physics, then HL2 shows up at E3 then Doom 3 is suddenly delayed, multiplay is announced and then announced that the physics are being tweaked. LOL

 

[MaDMaXX]

Ok, heres the deal, the AA problem is not a PR blunder, they announced that it existed and was a problem with the cards/dx9.

The reason its not seen so much in other games that exhibit the same problem is to do with the lighting techniques.

The problems have been worked around.

For the Nvidia card, the used pixel shaders to clamp down the polygon edges, so stoping the light bleeding onto other polygons.

This seems to be the best way to fix the problem but is not particularly efficient, but it works so...

For the ATI cards, they managed to get it fixed using Centroid sampling? which is how dx9 is supposed to do it, but this was only accomplished by working closely with ATI, the ability to use the technique properly was not avilable through dx9 and the, at that time current drivers.

FYI Nvidia cards do not have/support centroid sampling in the same way so it was not possible to use this method, they worked with Nvidia closely as well, to optimise the use of pixel shaders for the job.

 

[FISKER_Q]

My POV:

1. It was far more than a week after it was announced, although it had already been announced that the fix was so simple, although shader hogging on the gpu.

The lack of new content doesn't bother me, although that they're saying they will be showing off different AA modes and such in new demos will mean they are in a hurry if they want to get it out before the game goes gold.

The release date rumours are not weird for me at all. Only one really official word has been said.(Besides the no comments, which are a bit weird as well) But i guess they're keeping tight with it like multiplayer

Multiplayer will probably be great, i don't care about the no information, other games, doesn't really make their multiplayer gameplay and such official before release or before you see it yourself.

About doom.

I believe the delay is about the psychics. You heard a lot of "Will there be any great psychics" questions all the time after HL2 was announced. They said it wouldn't have, then it was delayed and now they announced a LOT of psychical features. I don't think this will have an effect for the gamers, i merely think that ID is trying to make their engine just as considerable as The Source engine.

There was not really anything new to show at either E3 or Quakecon, so that's pretty obvious.

I've seen screenshots at 1024x768 in multiplayer, as well benchmarks that should make it able to run fine so i don't see the concern.

It's based on P2P and all the rules of P2P. The weakest link becomes the strongets link. As in, you will be limited by the weakest link, therefor more than 4 would greatly screw up the netcode.


Edit: Multiplayer for Doom 3 has been known for quite a time, The new addition to the engine is the psychics.

 

[Ro@cH]

"Will there be any great psychics?"

Yeah they'll be able to bend spoons with their mind, and meanwhile predict your future.

 

[Democritus]

Originally posted by MaDMaXX
Ok, heres the deal, the AA problem is not a PR blunder, they announced that it existed and was a problem with the cards/dx9.

The PR problem wasn't the technical issue, as all games have technical issues. The PR problem was when the Valve programmer came out publically and announced that AA would look horrible on Half-Life 2 because of video card technical limitations and that NVIDIA had no foreseeable workaround. And then it was all fixed a week later

The right thing to do from a PR standpoint, in this case (IMO), would have been to say nothing at all about the AA problem (especially if a fix was in the works). It was the announcement that was bad PR as the announcement was unnecessary and genereted bad press.

From a PR standpoint, you never want one of your employees coming out the public telling everyone that anything in your game looks/works bad EVER, whether true or not. And you certainly don't want anyone saying NVIDIA has the problem extra bad, either, whether true or not.

The interesting question is if AA would have been fixed as quickly (or at all) if the big stink hadn't been raised. Perhaps bad PR worked to our advantage...