Protein powder and creatine

AKIRA

AKIRA

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Hi, ok so i'm working out now, and I want to get bigger/ripped. I'm currently taking creatine pills (it's called K-Pro) and they're like purple pills.

Now, should I also take protein powder with it, or should I drop the creatine and just take protein powder. Either way I need to know what the best brand of protein powder to get, keep in mind that I want to get bigger/ripped.

THanks a lot!:thumbs:
 
Bah. Get better the natural way. No need for pills or supplements. Vitamins and protein shakes, ok. But get buff the manual way. Hard work will yield real results.
 
eat more bacon.
----
where is short recoil. he will answer you seriously ;)
 
Anthraxxx said:
Bah. Get better the natural way. No need for pills or supplements. Vitamins and protein shakes, ok. But get buff the manual way. Hard work will yield real results.
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Completely disregard this post ^...


Your body makes both protein and creatine naturally. Although excessive amounts of creatine can hurt the kidneys it doesn't pose significant damages when taking the right amount directed to use. Go to a health club/store and talk to someone who knows what they are talking about. They will tell you all you need to know about protein and creatine supplements. Now I personally do not use creatine, however, I do take protein shakes. They are great for muscle repair. Protein does not increase muscle size at all. All it does is repair, so you can have your workouts more often. Creatine does increase muscle size (If youve seen peopel who have taken it for a while and stopped you would notice that their muscle will sometimes turn to fat and water)

But really its up to you, if you want to take both its fine. Nothing wrong with helping your work out. But if you do take creatine, keep working out or your muscle will turn into fat, which is not good.
 
bryanf445 said:
Completely disregard this post ^...


Your body makes both protein and creatine naturally. Although excessive amounts of creatine can hurt the kidneys it doesn't pose significant damages when taking the right amount directed to use. Go to a health club/store and talk to someone who knows what they are talking about. They will tell you all you need to know about protein and creatine supplements. Now I personally do not use creatine, however, I do take protein shakes. They are great for muscle repair. Protein does not increase muscle size at all. All it does is repair, so you can have your workouts more often. Creatine does increase muscle size (If youve seen peopel who have taken it for a while and stopped you would notice that their muscle will sometimes turn to fat and water)

But really its up to you, if you want to take both its fine. Nothing wrong with helping your work out. But if you do take creatine, keep working out or your muscle will turn into fat, which is not good.
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You typed that?
There is no way.
 
bryanf445 said:
Completely disregard this post ^...


Your body makes both protein and creatine naturally. Although excessive amounts of creatine can hurt the kidneys it doesn't pose significant damages when taking the right amount directed to use. Go to a health club/store and talk to someone who knows what they are talking about. They will tell you all you need to know about protein and creatine supplements. Now I personally do not use creatine, however, I do take protein shakes. They are great for muscle repair. Protein does not increase muscle size at all. All it does is repair, so you can have your workouts more often. Creatine does increase muscle size (If youve seen peopel who have taken it for a while and stopped you would notice that their muscle will sometimes turn to fat and water)

But really its up to you, if you want to take both its fine. Nothing wrong with helping your work out. But if you do take creatine, keep working out or your muscle will turn into fat, which is not good.
Click to expand...

So to sum up your post.....

It's ok to use creatine, but be sure to consult a professional before doing so. Vitamins and protein is ok. It's better to do things the hard way otherwise the muscle will turn into fat and water.... or pretty much what I said before minus the 'ask a pro' part.
 
WOah...lol i didn;t know if you stopped working out your muscles will turn into fat...i def don't want that...i guess i'm just going to buy protein powder and work on getting big the old fashioned manual way.. Any tips on increasing chest size?

It's weird, my chest is like flat but i can lift 185 lbs 3 times (doesn';t sound like much but for me it is lol) i always work out my chest and nothing seems to make it bigger.

Heres my current chest workout:

Bench Press 3x8
Incline Bench Press 3x8
Dumbell flies: 3x10

there lol...after those my chest gets like destroyed and it takes me a good 2-3 days to feel normal again...am i approaching this the wrong way?
 
bryanf445 said:
Completely disregard this post ^...


Your body makes both protein and creatine naturally. Although excessive amounts of creatine can hurt the kidneys it doesn't pose significant damages when taking the right amount directed to use. Go to a health club/store and talk to someone who knows what they are talking about. They will tell you all you need to know about protein and creatine supplements. Now I personally do not use creatine, however, I do take protein shakes. They are great for muscle repair. Protein does not increase muscle size at all. All it does is repair, so you can have your workouts more often. Creatine does increase muscle size (If youve seen peopel who have taken it for a while and stopped you would notice that their muscle will sometimes turn to fat and water)

But really its up to you, if you want to take both its fine. Nothing wrong with helping your work out. But if you do take creatine, keep working out or your muscle will turn into fat, which is not good.
Click to expand...


¿So what good do protein shakes do? ¿If it doesn´t increase muscle size, is your body in charge of doing that itself? ¿Or do you have to take creatine?
 
Anthraxxx said:
So to sum up your post.....

It's ok to use creatine, but be sure to consult a professional before doing so. Vitamins and protein is ok. It's better to do things the hard way otherwise the muscle will turn into fat and water.... or pretty much what I said before minus the 'ask a pro' part.
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Well you made it seem like its an awful thing to do and that he should avoid it and be "natural" when in fact he can get more accomplished with some supplements.

Thread said:
¿So what good do protein shakes do? ¿If it doesn´t increase muscle size, is your body in charge of doing that itself? ¿Or do you have to take creatine?
Click to expand...

Like I said the protein will heal your muscles after a workout. When you workout, muscles are ripped, and then when they heal they are stronger and bigger. Usually after having a really good workout generally you should rest a day afterwards to let your muscles heal, but protein will speed up the healing process so you can work out longer and on the days where you would normally rest you can do another workout
 
Screw shakes and suppliments....I gained 20 lbs in less than 8 months of bodybuilding....I have <5% bodyfat, I got all of that by drinking milk, eating alot of subs.

I can't imagine what my gains would have been like if I hadn't slacked off for a month and I had eaten healthy the whole time...I tend to eat alot of junkfood.

I'm now on a workout routine that has potential to build up to 10 lbs in one month... I'll see how it goes.
 
So any workout advice on how to get my chest bigger?
 
Ech...I hate to say it bryan, but you aren't making much sense.

First, your muscles (as all your cells) are composed of various types of proteins. Now, when you weight train, you damage certain parts of the fibre and its outer coatings. This can lead to Ca++ ions leaking out resulting in a badass stiffness the next morning. Anyways, proteins are critical for repair AND for building mass. You can't build a house without wood, just like you can't increase muscle size without adequate protein.

As far as creatine goes, all it does is help boost your ATP-PC system temporarily. As in for 1 or 2 reps more. Novices definately don't need creatine to maximize their efforts in the gym. It also helps water retention, hinting at the extra size you gain. But seriously, it is just for show and not substantial size. If you want to be big, have the strength to back it up as well.

And whoever told you that muscle can turn to fat/water is full of something. You are born with the same amount of muscles cells as you have when you die. Nothing happens to magically convert muscle tissue into fat tissue.

For novices, I strongly suggest not going under 10 reps for any weight lifting exercise. Typically, your body isn't used to the mechanics of weight lifting, and it is important to get your nervous system familiar with the strain you will be putting on it. Jacking up the weight and lowering reps early on will just hinder your progress. Build a base of strength first, get your body familiar with the ins and outs of weight training, then in a few months time try tampering with rep ranges.

One last thing. It is always important to check your pride at the door when weight training. It's embarassing to see novices pick up some hefty dumbell they see lying around and attempt to heave the thing up and about. Your muscles don't know how much weight you are using. They only know how much stress they are sustaining. Lower weight with proper form beats higher weight with piss poor form any day of the week.
 
Bait said:
And whoever told you that muscle can turn to fat/water is full of something. You are born with the same amount of muscles cells as you have when you die. Nothing happens to magically convert muscle tissue into fat tissue.
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Yeah? That's cool, I've never heard that before. Why does it look like they get bigger, then?
 
Bait said:
And whoever told you that muscle can turn to fat/water is full of something. You are born with the same amount of muscles cells as you have when you die. Nothing happens to magically convert muscle tissue into fat tissue.
Click to expand...

True, but what I meant to say was that creatine pulls water into your muscles. And if you take creatine and not work out, you are not doing anything but adding water and excess weight on your body. Sorry if I said fat, I just wanted to stress the fact that you must continue to work when taking creatine.
 
The muscles look like they get bigger because the individual muscles fibres enlarge. Essetially, a muscle is a bunch of fibres wrapped up in a circular shape with coatings around them to keep them together. Not a great description, but it is hard to explain on a forum.

As far as creatine goes, I'll just say that it is in no way necessary for someone to be successful in a work out. I've seen people take it and the results have been mixed. Some loved it, others found it a waste of time and money. If you are tempted to try creatine, get some experience under your belt first, and educate yourself. Then give it a whirl.

Plus, anyone who takes creatine while not working out is fighting with mixed signals in their head.
 
Sweet, I think i'll drop the creatine because so far it's not really doing anything and just get protein powder instead.
 
Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium, Salmon and Vitamins. I guess. I wouldn't go for protein powder really (you'd probably shit most of it out anyway - your body only takes what it needs). Try a big steak in conjuction with a big workout.
 
Problem with that is that I don;t eat steak everyday. So i guess I should just work out and drink my protein powder shakes.
 
You just have to eat more in order to get bigger and stay bigger. Diet is and always has been the proper key towards a good lasting body.

Protein shakes are a great way to repair your muscles. So are bananas. They help you not have those sore muscles the next day.

Everyone here is pretty much correct with their advise.
 
Protein is a suber-uber-mega broad based term. There are more proteins than any one person can know or understand. What you really are looking for in supplementation are the different kinds of amino acids needed to build specific proteins. That is, if your body is lacking a certain amino acid group, a specific protein cannot be built and thus your body is unable to produce it once the need arises. So, the more amino acids present in your system, and the greater the variety, the more adaptable your body is in making necessary proteins.

What that means is a variety of protein intake is needed. Sure, a protein shake might have 30g of protein, but if that is the only major source of protein in your diet you are shortchanging yourself on a variety of amino acids.
So, how does it all fit together? A balanced diet of anything and everything healthy will give your body what it needs to build the proteins and associated complexes to repair and grow your body. Don't be fooled into thinking "I am taking protein shakes, so I am good to go for my nutritional intake for the day".
 
I suggest starting out with around 10 reps per weight when you start. low reps with heavy amount of weight is for more advanced imo (220+ i think is about right)
 
ktimekiller said:
I suggest starting out with around 10 reps per weight when you start. low reps with heavy amount of weight is for more advanced imo (220+ i think is about right)
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Ehm BS, you'll never get big if you're doing 10 reps...that's the maximum.

The Rippetoe workout (a good BEGINNER workout) recommends 5 sets of 5 benchpress, deadlift, squat.
 
AKIRA said:
Ok...tell me if this product is bullshit or not beause it seems to have what i'm looking for. And don't worry I don't think that If i take this i'll see results. I knwo that I have to have a healthy diet (which I think i do) and I do work out regularly.

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2427174&cp=2167077.2276135&view=all&parentPage=family
Click to expand...
I would talk to the people at teh GNC store about that.... I'm also going to guess that taking that will make you very thirsty because it decreases water retention, so if you do, I would recommend that you carry a bottle of water with you. I suppose that it might be able to make you look more defined, but it's still up to you to do the work to build the muscle that you want to have.


edit: also, the reduction in water retention will mean that you will have to pee more....or it will give you the runs... more frequently... Your body is going to be getting rid of water, and those are the easiest ways to do it.
 
MiccyNarc said:
Ehm BS, you'll never get big if you're doing 10 reps...that's the maximum.

The Rippetoe workout (a good BEGINNER workout) recommends 5 sets of 5 benchpress, deadlift, squat.
Click to expand...

The issue here is that a novice would be A) Unable to perform proper form due to excessive weight B) the danger associated with going so heavy with such little experience behind them C) unable to cope with the fact that that is a piss hard workout to accomplish sucessfully and quickly.

It is most definately better for a novice to start in the 10-12 rep range. They get the mechanics of lifting down, plus their body learns to cope with the damage associated with weight training much better over the initial course of training. Again, I stress that low rep, high weight exercises only be executed with proper knowledge of techniques and forms as to reduce the risk of injury, plus the proper habituation of your body to the stresses of weight training.

As for that supplement Akira posted, it seems like a supplement intended for use in the build-up period prior to a body building competition or such. That is, with the increased metabolism, your fat percentages go way down, and the skin stretches a whole lot more tightly around the muscles allowing more definition. Personally, that is messing a bit too much with your natural chemsitry. As such, I wouldn't advise it to someone who is looking to casually work out.

Believe me when I say supplementation is beneficial, but not critical. It is very easy to meet your nutritional requirements and still get buff off of regular diet alone. It takes some discipline to arrange your diet to ensure you are on the straight and narrow of nutrition, but it is well worth it once the results start manifesting.

Hard work in the gym will translate into results provided you know what you are doing inside and outside the gym. Teach yourself a bit outside the gym and apply that knowledge inside. That is truly what seperates wannabes from genuinely succesful people who weight train. And just because you aren't 210 lbs of ripped muscle doesn't mean you aren't successful.

One last tip. When considering your progress, look at things in terms of weeks and months. It is far to easy to become discouraged when looking at short term results. Patience and far-sightedness will be a saviour in the long run and will dictate whether or not you stick to your training regime. Always know that hard work will pay off in the end, provided you put the time and effort inside the gym and out.
 
The issue here is that a novice would be A) Unable to perform proper form due to excessive weight B) the danger associated with going so heavy with such little experience behind them C) unable to cope with the fact that that is a piss hard workout to accomplish sucessfully and quickly.
Click to expand...
Then the novice should pick weights they can lift for 5 sets of 5 reps.
That's how I started.
 
It takes serious time and effort. The protein powder will only help repair and grow stressed muscle fibres, so if you don't put in the work nothing will happen (except perhaps increased wind and diarrhea). Likewise the creatine primarily induces water retention in the muscles. You'll swell up but as soon as you stop taking them you'll deflate again, and you'll be no bigger or stronger than when you started.

Additionally, for maximum growth you need to have well ordered training regimes, working alternate muscle groups and allowing sufficient rest for repair and growth.

You might also want to consider your cardiovascular fitness while you're at it. There's no point being ripped if you get out of breath lugging your bulk up the stairs.
 
bryanf445 said:
Completely disregard this post ^...


Your body makes both protein and creatine naturally. Although excessive amounts of creatine can hurt the kidneys it doesn't pose significant damages when taking the right amount directed to use. Go to a health club/store and talk to someone who knows what they are talking about. They will tell you all you need to know about protein and creatine supplements. Now I personally do not use creatine, however, I do take protein shakes. They are great for muscle repair. Protein does not increase muscle size at all. All it does is repair, so you can have your workouts more often. Creatine does increase muscle size (If youve seen peopel who have taken it for a while and stopped you would notice that their muscle will sometimes turn to fat and water)

But really its up to you, if you want to take both its fine. Nothing wrong with helping your work out. But if you do take creatine, keep working out or your muscle will turn into fat, which is not good.
Click to expand...
No offense, but this is the biggest load of innaccurate misinformation I've read in a long time. I don't even know where to start...

First of all, health store attendents usually know less than you do about the stuff, they are there to sell you the most expensive useless crud they can. They will try to get you to use some fancy crap like "NO" products and protein powder that has "x4 complex acids" (aka: bullshit) and costs 3 times the price of normal powder.

As for the use of protein vs. creatine, supplementing protein is not some miracle that will allow you to work out 3 times a day or anything. Truth be told, you should only be using protein powder if you don't have the time to eat protein from a natural source. Eggs and chicken provide just as good a source of protein as powder, but also have the added effect of metabolism boosting due to your body having to actually do something to digest it (which liquid calories like protein shakes do NOT do). Regardless, you just need to be eating protein, it doesn't matter very much from which source it comes. Do not expect to explode in weight or strength from eating protein, it's simply one of the many necessary steps to get fit. As much as it sucks, there is no "easy" way to get bigger and stronger with the exception of steroids, you are going to have to hit the weights hard, and for a good period of time to see results.

Saying protein does not increase muscle mass is false.. your muscle gains size FROM repairing itself after hypertrophy (weight lifting). Protein (and amino acids in particular) are the building blocks that facilitate this repair and thus your muscle's increase. Of course, without the proper amount of calories you aren't going to get bigger anyway, regardless of whether you are taking protein or not. This is a common misconception and the first guy that responded and said to go natural is actually fairly correct, becauase if you don't have your basics like diet, rest, water consumption and weight lifting regime down, supplements are just going to completely waste your money.

Creatine does not increase muscle size. It temporarily causes your muscles to retain more water while you are on it, thereby making you look bigger but your muscle mass itself is not affected simply by taking creatine. What creatine DOES do is it helps you increase your explosive energy so that you can lift more. Again, don't expect insane results, these are not miracle drugs, it just helps you get that extra rep in if you are hitting a plateau. Additionally, I've personally found that creatine helps prevent injury, but that is debatable and others might argue otherwise. I'm just speaking from personal experience (I used to get a lot of forearm splints and creatine has reduced these greatly).

Finally, the reason people appear to get smaller when they cycle off of creatine is that they lose all that extra water weight that I was referring to. Muscle does not turn to fat and water.. that is rediculous. Fat is caused by one thing and one thing only, your body storing excess calories. Muscle is either built or broken down for nutrition (if you aren't eating enough). It doesn't magically change its molecular structure and become fat or h20...

sorry if this was already covered, I didn't bother reading through the rest of the replies after the first page.

PS: Lifting more reps less weight does not "tone" you. Tone is caused by losing body fat, not by the weight you lift. Lifting lighter weight higher reps can be good for your tendons but that's about it... ask any body builder and they will tell you that up to the very day of competition they will lift as hard as they can, repping anywhere between 4-6 and 6-10 (aka: low reps). Leave the high reps/low weight nonsense to clueless women.
 
One more thing, buy your supplements from bodybuilding.com. GNC is the biggest rip-off ever and you will save at least 50% buying from bodybuilding.com.


In case anyone's interested, here's the supplement stack I'm currently on as well as my workout schedule (changes every 4 weeks):

- AST SS Micronized creatine (POWDERED creatine [the only kind worth taking] and its ground super small so it doesnt give stomach problems. I've tried a lot of creatine and this one is the best so far, and extremely cheap)
- Prolab Glutamine powder (assists repair and is a volumizer, cheap as hell.)
- Optimum Nutrition BCAA caps (these are crucial if you are cutting as they are aminos geared specifically to keep you from losing muscle mass)
- Opt. Nut. ZMA (Supposedly increases testosterone levels, that's debatable but I take it because it makes me sleep way deeper)
- AST SS multivitamin (weight-lifter multivitamin has vitamin levels geared towards active folks rather than that old person centrum crap)
- Fish oil and Flaxseed oil caps (cardiovascular health and i've noticed it speeds up my cutting phases)
- Vasopro ephedrine/caffiene (the only legitimate fat-burner in existance)
- Opt. Nut. Whey protein (I just use this while Im at the gym as its been shown that taking creatine with a protein source can increase its results)

Now all that stuff only costs me 200$ for 3 MONTHS supply. You'll spend that much on a single can of protein powder at GNC... well not quite but you get my point--use bb.com


Here's my workout schedule (I do Max-OT style of weight lifting):
Mondays: Legs
Squats- 3x4-6
Deadlift (stiff leg)- 2x4-6
Leg Press- 2x4-6
Lunges- 1x8-10
Calf Raises (Standing)- 3x10-12
Calf Raises (Sitting)- 2x10-12

Tuesday: Chest/Forearms
Incline barbell: 3x4-6
Flat barbell: 2x4-6
Decline Barbell: 2x4-6
Pushups with weight on back: 2x10-12
Forearm curls: 2x20

Wednesday: Back/Traps
Barbell upright row- 2x4-6
Vbar pulldown- 2x4-6
pulldown- 2x4-6
Seated row- 1x4-6
Deadlift (powerlift style)- 2x4-6
Shrug- 1x4-6

Thursday: Shoulders/Triceps
Dumbell military press- 3x4-6
Barbell military press- 2x4-6
Dumbell flies- 2x8-10
Lying tricep overhead extensions (skullcrush)- 2x4-6
Cable tricep pulldown- 2x4-6
Kickback- 1x8-10

Friday: Biceps/abs
Curls- 3x4-6
Hammers- 2x4-6
Cable Curl- 2x4-6
Leg Raises- 2x12-15
Cable crunch- 3x8-12

Sat/Sun I rest

Every morning I do cardio, 16 minutes of interval training at maximum capability, increasing either the level or the milage every time. Right now I'm burning about 300 calories in the 16 minute period, so it's pretty damn effective and doesn't take much time at all. I workout weights at night.
 
I heard a better way to increase size in all areas is to do the full body workout everyday for 3 days a week but by reducing sets/reps and upping th weight. This way you don;t work out 1 body part(s)per week but you do it 3 times a week.
 
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