Protein powder and creatine

[arniesays]

Bah. Get better the natural way. No need for pills or supplements. Vitamins and protein shakes, ok. But get buff the manual way. Hard work will yield real results.

taking supps is still natural, only when youve started taking steroids do you become 'unnatural'

 

[arniesays]

Screw shakes and suppliments....I gained 20 lbs in less than 8 months of bodybuilding....I have <5% bodyfat, I got all of that by drinking milk, eating alot of subs.

I can't imagine what my gains would have been like if I hadn't slacked off for a month and I had eaten healthy the whole time...I tend to eat alot of junkfood.

I'm now on a workout routine that has potential to build up to 10 lbs in one month... I'll see how it goes.

you dont know what you;re talking about, do you?

no workout routine has the potential to give you gains. it is 'you' that has the potential. and no workout routine will make you gain weight. gaining weight is all down to what you EAT

 

[arniesays]

So to sum up your post.....

It's ok to use creatine, but be sure to consult a professional before doing so. Vitamins and protein is ok. It's better to do things the hard way otherwise the muscle will turn into fat and water.... or pretty much what I said before minus the 'ask a pro' part.

muslce turns into fat and water, does it??

thats like a bit of metal turning into a piece of wood.

muslce DOES NOT turn into fat. all a muslce fibre can do is get bigger, stay the same size, or shrink. thats it.

 

[arniesays]

. Lower weight, higher reps will tone it.

you also don't know what you;re talking about,

to become 'toned' you just need a low percentage of bodyfat. higher reps will not help with losing fat. to lose fat you need proper nutrition and cardio. as for the weight lifting you may as well stay on a strenth training program to at leats stop you from losing strenth.

 

[kirovman]

Arnie sure told them.

Especially Shamrock. Nobody likes Shamrock.

 

[Shodan]

Ah, awesome.

 

[arniesays]

Sweet, I think i'll drop the creatine because so far it's not really doing anything and just get protein powder instead.

how much water are you drinking. you cant stick to the RDA of 1.5litres while on it. you need more than that. try 3.5litres.

 

[arniesays]

Protein shakes are a great way to repair your muscles. So are bananas. They help you not have those sore muscles the next day.
.

no they dont. doing a proper cooldown and stretching after a workout will help reduce soreness. also becoming properly conditioned will also help reduce soreness. such as training a muslce twice a week (properly) and adding cardio work.

you dont have to train each muscle twice a week but by doing so adds frequency to your training and frequency is important. obviously dont do shit like 10 sets of chest twice a week. but 6 sets for example without going to failure is fine.

a muslce only needs 72hrs to repair.

 

[arniesays]

Like I said the protein will heal your muscles after a workout. When you workout, muscles are ripped, and then when they heal they are stronger and bigger. Usually after having a really good workout generally you should rest a day afterwards to let your muscles heal, but protein will speed up the healing process so you can work out longer and on the days where you would normally rest you can do another workout

WTF. protien helps repair damaged cells and makes you grow. it doesnt speed anything up. you cant workout longer and have extra workouts just becuase you take protien.

if you want to speed up recovery consume a shake immediately after a workout consisting of protien, carbs and glucose (also known as dextrose). the glucose will hit the blood stream quickly creating an insulin spike which will pull all the nutrients youve just consumed into emtpy body cells. the empty cells in this case will be the muslce cells as they are depleted of glycogen after the workout. in other words - they are empty. the nutrients will go into the muslce cells quickly replacing the glycogen. now the muslces wont be completely healed just from this, but it will speed up recovery time as the muslces now have glycogen again, pretty soon after the workout.

 

[MiccyNarc]

you dont know what you;re talking about, do you?

no workout routine has the potential to give you gains. it is 'you' that has the potential. and no workout routine will make you gain weight. gaining weight is all down to what you EAT

STFU moron. I've eaten like a pig for years and never gained a pound, why? Awesome metabolism. How much weight I gain depends on whether or not my body actually needs the food. I never said that the workout would make me gain weight, I'm not that dumb.

Now GTFO you little newb, you're obnoxious.

a muslce only needs 72hrs to repair.

Try 24-48 and you might be closer.

 

[Darkwolf]

Holy Moly! Arnie just made a quadruple and a triple post!!! D:

Is this a forum first?! *flees from ban stick approching thread*

 

[Raziaar]

you also don't know what you;re talking about,

to become 'toned' you just need a low percentage of bodyfat. higher reps will not help with losing fat. to lose fat you need proper nutrition and cardio. as for the weight lifting you may as well stay on a strenth training program to at leats stop you from losing strenth.

Umm... you don't have to lose fat to tone an area of your body. Toning is well accomplished by slight muscular definition as well as tightening of the skin around the area, to better contour around the muscles. Losing fat is a very effective way to show definition, but it is not the only way to tone an area of the body. Good nutrition and high water intake are great factors in tightening the skin to create a more toned physique even before weight loss.

Spot reduction however, is impossible.

 

[arniesays]

I never said that the workout would make me gain weight, I'm not that dumb.
.

yes you did you idiot. you said you're about to do a program that has the potential to gain you 10lbs.

Try 24-48 and you might be closer.

no ill keep with 72. kthnxbye

 

[arniesays]

STFU moron. I've eaten like a pig for years and never gained a pound, why? Awesome metabolism. How much weight I gain depends on whether or not my body actually needs the food.

you may have eaten like a pig but do you actually know how many calories you were consuming? no i didnt think so. if you were eating above maintenance level calories then you would have gained weight (mostly fat though). you dont need to make your body 'need the food' to gain weight.

 

[Raziaar]

Quit double posting.

 

[kirovman]

This is like deja vu from http://www.larrymccusker.com/arnoldmovie.html

"What is all this junk food shit? You need vitamins, amino acids."

 

[arniesays]

Umm... you don't have to lose fat to tone an area of your body. Toning is well accomplished by slight muscular definition as well as tightening of the skin around the area, to better contour around the muscles. Losing fat is a very effective way to show definition, but it is not the only way to tone an area of the body. Good nutrition and high water intake are great factors in tightening the skin to create a more toned physique even before weight loss.

Spot reduction however, is impossible.

im pretty sure you copy and pasted that. i was simply stating that high reps/ low weight will not 'tone' you. and you do have to lose weight to look toned. you dont neccessarily need 5% bodyfat but your not going to look toned with a high bodyfat percentage no matter how tight your skin is.

 

[Raziaar]

im pretty sure you copy and pasted that. i was simply stating that high reps/ low weight will not 'tone' you. and you do have to lose weight to look toned. you dont neccessarily need 5% bodyfat but your not going to look toned with a high bodyfat percentage no matter how tight your skin is.

Copied and pasted that? No I didn't. I pulled it out of my ass because its true.

If I copy and paste something, I put it in quote form.

And I said you would look MORE toned.

 

[Bait]

In reality, it can take muscles weeks to reach their full strength after a very hard workout. Of course, enough repair will have happened after a few days that you could re-work the muscle without too much discomfort. Personally, I wouldn't work the same muscle group more than twice a week, otherwise it isn't recieving enough time to heal.

As far as tone goes: all muscles have some degree of tension during the day i.e muscle tone. The stronger and more massive the muscle becomes, the greater the tone it produces. Of course, all the tissue over the muscle will detract away from its tone. Weight training is great for burning off fat, but don't get fooled about how fat is burned off your body. Just because you work your shoulder muscles doesn't mean you lose fat off of your shoulders. Having said that, it takes alot of time and effort to widdle away layers of fat providing a nice toned look. Again, as always in weight training, patience is key.

Lastly, I am not sure how a thread like this could spark an argument, but here we are.

 

[Raziaar]

supplements and pills do one thing, and thats make your shits buffer. i worked out with that shit for a long time and saw no results, my turds were dryer and i had to push harder to make them come out, i was angry all the time, as thats what protein does to you, but once i stopped using it and doing it naturally, i seemed to get better results.

Protein makes you angry? What the hell are you talking about? That's a load of horseshit.

OMG I AM LOADED UP ON PROTEIN AND I AM GETTING SO ANGRY.

You won't like me when I'm angry!

 

[Absinthe]

Go away, kng. Nobody likes you.

 

[MiccyNarc]

yes you did you idiot. you said you're about to do a program that has the potential to gain you 10lbs.

That would allow potential gains. Do I really have to spell this out?
A workout that involves 30 reps of every exercise != weight gains.
A workout that involves 5 reps of every exercise = weight gains IF you have proper diet.
You're being a troll, again, STFU and leave. No one likes you, you're dumb, kill yourself.

you may have eaten like a pig but do you actually know how many calories you were consuming? no i didnt think so. if you were eating above maintenance level calories then you would have gained weight (mostly fat though). you dont need to make your body 'need the food' to gain weight.

At least one large (13 oz) bag of skittles almost every day, potato chips, junk food, all this just sitting in front of the PC.
A good metabolism runs in my family, no one on my dad's side weighs over 200 lbs, and they're all 6 feet tall or taller.
So yeah, you don't know jack, you're annoying, and I pray to God you get banned soon.

 

[arniesays]

That would allow potential gains. Do I really have to spell this out?
A workout that involves 30 reps of every exercise != weight gains.
A workout that involves 5 reps of every exercise = weight gains IF you have proper diet.
You're being a troll, again, STFU and leave. No one likes you, you're dumb, kill yourself.

At least one large (13 oz) bag of skittles almost every day, potato chips, junk food, all this just sitting in front of the PC.
A good metabolism runs in my family, no one on my dad's side weighs over 200 lbs, and they're all 6 feet tall or taller.
So yeah, you don't know jack, you're annoying, and I pray to God you get banned soon.

how am i annoying? becuase you;re posting shite and im calling you out on it. well then i guess im just Mr Annoying. i bet everyone who tells you you;re wrong are all annoying to you, arent they. i guess you know everything about everything. well im surely not going to get into an arguement with you about weight training becuase theres no i could win. how could i possibly win against a coach potato who eats junk food.

That would allow potential gains.

what the hell. you clearly said it has the potential to gain you 10lbs. it doesnt. gaining 10lbs isnt down to the prorgram. its down to what you eat. and theres no limit on what you can gain. some may gain under 10lbs, other may gain more.

A workout that involves 30 reps of every exercise != weight gains.
A workout that involves 5 reps of every exercise = weight gains IF you have proper diet.

i dont get what you're saying there. are you trying to say that a workout involving 30 reps per exercise will make you gain weight even without a proper diet??

and dont reply with crap like 'STFU' or 'i hope you get banned'. im not interested in being involved in an argument over something so silly. surely you can have a discussion with someone without having to be immature.

 

[Razor]

Just started back at the gym after 2 weeks off with the cold and definately lost about a good 15kg on my Benchpress...as well as everything else . Also started my creatine cycle as well today so shouldn't be too long before i'm back in and kicking some arse in the gym.

I take protein, creatine ethyl ester and l-glutamine, but my protein shake has both l-glutamine and creatine in anyway.

 

[MiccyNarc]

how am i annoying? becuase you;re posting shite and im calling you out on it. well then i guess im just Mr Annoying. i bet everyone who tells you you;re wrong are all annoying to you, arent they. i guess you know everything about everything. well im surely not going to get into an arguement with you about weight training becuase theres no i could win. how could i possibly win against a coach potato who eats junk food.

That was last year. See, this is why you're so annoying. You assume you automatically know EVERYTHING there is to be known about me, everything from diet to my workout routines to how well my metabolism works etc. etc. etc.

I'll have you know I'm no longer a couch potato, I still have ~5% body fat, and have gained 25 lbs of pure muscle in the past 8 months. The last 5 lbs have come in the past 2 weeks on my new workout routine.

what the hell. you clearly said it has the potential to gain you 10lbs. it doesnt. gaining 10lbs isnt down to the prorgram. its down to what you eat. and theres no limit on what you can gain. some may gain under 10lbs, other may gain more.

It comes down to 2 things: Diet and your workout. I can't believe you can't figure this out.
If I'm working out light, my body won't need the food and I won't gain any weight, fat or otherwise. I'll eat just as much but I'll crap out what I don't need because that's how my body works and why I have ~5% bodyfat.
If I work out hard, my body will need the food, I'll eat just as much or maybe a little more, and I'll gain weight because it's not going out the other end.
Again, because that's how my body works.

And yes, your workout can determine how much food you need and therefore how much weight you gain. Any idiot knows this. Usually people gain only 2-2.5 lbs of muscle per month because they don't really know what they're doing or aren't looking for big gains. I'm looking for big gains.

i dont get what you're saying there. are you trying to say that a workout involving 30 reps per exercise will make you gain weight even without a proper diet??

Do you know what "!=" means?

 

[arniesays]

I'll have you know I'm no longer a couch potato, I still have ~5% body fat, and have gained 25 lbs of pure muscle in the past 8 months. The last 5 lbs have come in the past 2 weeks on my new workout routine.

what a joke. you didnt gain 25lbs of PURE muslce in 8 months unless you were on some type of performance enhancer. im not doubting you gained 25lbs of mass, but it is not pure muslce. sorry.

and id love to see a pic of this so called 5% bodyfat. that would be shit hard to maintain, especially when bulking. either, you';re talking out of your ass or you messed up when calculating it.

It comes down to 2 things: Diet and your workout. I can't believe you can't figure this out.
If I'm working out light, my body won't need the food and I won't gain any weight, fat or otherwise. I'll eat just as much but I'll crap out what I don't need because that's how my body works and why I have ~5% bodyfat.
If I work out hard, my body will need the food, I'll eat just as much or maybe a little more, and I'll gain weight because it's not going out the other end.
Again, because that's how my body works.

haha sure. i suppose you shit out whole steaks and whole burgers dont you. you can then re-eat them the next day

no ones body works like that. you cant shit out the food you dont need. if you;re body doesnt need it, it will get stored as fat. simple as that. the reason you didnt gain weight when eating junk was becuase you werent eating enough calories. just becuase you eat junk food it doesnt automatically mean you;re eating too many calories.

And yes, your workout can determine how much food you need

that just comes down to the intensity of the workout, hence how many calories you brun during it.

Do you know what "!=" means?

no, i dont know what that crappy lingo means

 

[MiccyNarc]

what a joke. you didnt gain 25lbs of PURE muslce in 8 months unless you were on some type of performance enhancer. im not doubting you gained 25lbs of mass, but it is not pure muslce. sorry.

and id love to see a pic of this so called 5% bodyfat. that would be shit hard to maintain, especially when bulking. either, you';re talking out of your ass or you messed up when calculating it.

Or you're stereotyping again. Some people have good genetics. I'm one of them.

haha sure. i suppose you shit out whole steaks and whole burgers dont you. you can then re-eat them the next day

no ones body works like that. you cant shit out the food you dont need. if you;re body doesnt need it, it will get stored as fat. simple as that. the reason you didnt gain weight when eating junk was becuase you werent eating enough calories. just becuase you eat junk food it doesnt automatically mean you;re eating too many calories.

Then I must burn alot of calories when I'm sitting on my ass in front of the computer then. I drank lots of soda, ate lots of junkfood, more than any of my friends who were on diets, and still maintained the same weight.
Methinks you're just jealous.

that just comes down to the intensity of the workout, hence how many calories you brun during it.

...

And damaging muscle has absolutely nothing to do with it right?

no, i dont know what that crappy lingo means

!= is a programming (java I believe) term for "does not equal", commonly used across the net.

 

[bryanf445]

WTF. protien helps repair damaged cells and makes you grow. it doesnt speed anything up. you cant workout longer and have extra workouts just becuase you take protien.

if you want to speed up recovery consume a shake immediately after a workout consisting of protien, carbs and glucose (also known as dextrose). the glucose will hit the blood stream quickly creating an insulin spike which will pull all the nutrients youve just consumed into emtpy body cells. the empty cells in this case will be the muslce cells as they are depleted of glycogen after the workout. in other words - they are empty. the nutrients will go into the muslce cells quickly replacing the glycogen. now the muslces wont be completely healed just from this, but it will speed up recovery time as the muslces now have glycogen again, pretty soon after the workout.

No, wtf are you talking about.Protein WILL heal your muscles faster then not taking the supplement. And what happens when your muscles are healed? Yea you guessed it you can work out again instead of the day where you would rest!


And whats this 72 hour BS your talking about. Muscles do not take that long to heal. Have you ever even lifted? Don't tell me you've been sore for 4 days after lifting... because that is just ridiculous.

 

[MiccyNarc]

No, wtf are you talking about.Protein WILL heal your muscles faster then not taking the supplement. And what happens when your muscles are healed? Yea you guessed it you can work out again instead of the day where you would rest!


And whats this 72 hour BS your talking about. Muscles do not take that long to heal. Have you ever even lifted? Don't tell me you've been sore for 4 days after lifting... because that is just ridiculous.

I think it's safe to assume moronsays is an ignorant troll that is ashamed of his own physique and just wants to try to put us down by spewing bull.

 

[AKIRA]

Guys, will this workout help me build SIZE??

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html

 

[D3pth Charge]

Actually, I have to agree with most of what arnie says, and bryanf, I'm afraid you ARE wrong... protein is not some supernatural supplement, it's a basic nutritional building block found in a large majority of every day food. Eating excess of it does not speed up your healing, it simply provides the tools to do something with that healing (IE: get you jacked )

As for MiccyNarc, you should settle down and stop resorting to personal insults... why are you getting so enraged over this? Ok, so he argued with what you said; that is reason to tell him to die and "hope to god" he gets banned? And why does it matter if he hasn't posted much? It's the internet man, just chill out.

His point about not eating enough calories to gain fat was right, he just didn't clarify enough. Your metabolism as you say is very high, which means that at rest you are burning more calories than the average person. Therefore, just to maintain your weight you would have to eat more than the next person. Now, since you are trying to bulk, you probably know that you have to up your calories a bit to give your body more fuel to build with. However, unless you calculate this perfectly you are bound to eat a little more than you use, and in every person (even those with high metabolisms) this converts to fat... that's what it is. It's a basic body function that was designed to keep us from starving to death.

Now, perhaps you are NOT gaining any fat and yet most of the time you eat a lot.. this could be because it's not consistent, for instance if one day you ate enough to properly fuel your body and had a bit left over which was then stored, but the next day you didn't eat quite enough food, this extra from the day before would be consumed and you would be back to square one.

If you really have calculated your proper maintenance caloric intake level and are eating the proper amount above and beyond that every day and have been doing so for some time now without gaining any fat... I would be very surprised, but I'm not saying it's impossible I just have never met anyone like that and I know a lot of mesomorphs (damn italians).

I would be interested to see a shot of you if you have one though; sounds like you have a good frame to build off of. I'm sure an image would also help calm the fight with arnie as well...

 

[arniesays]

No, wtf are you talking about.Protein WILL heal your muscles faster then not taking the supplement. And what happens when your muscles are healed? Yea you guessed it you can work out again instead of the day where you would rest!

as depth charge has already pointed out, it just provides the tools to repair the muslces. it doesnt speed anything up.

And whats this 72 hour BS your talking about. Muscles do not take that long to heal. Have you ever even lifted? Don't tell me you've been sore for 4 days after lifting... because that is just ridiculous.

72 hours = 3 days, not 4. and yes, they can take about that long to heal. of course this will vary from person to person and depend on your nutrition, whether you do any cardio on off days, whther you take extra steps for recovery such as getting massages or taking hot/ cold contrast showers. but it surely isnt 24 hours like you said. that would mean fullbody splits could be done each day.
being sore doesnt equal a damaged muslce. some people rarely get sore. some may only havea few muslces that get sore. but the lack of soreness doesnt mean muslces have automatically healed. and when the muslce is sore it doesnt neccessarily mean it is damaged.

 

[AKIRA]

Guys, will this workout help me build SIZE??

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html

Will it?

 

[VictimOfScience]

Lift heavy weights, eat steaks--lots of them--and anything else you want. You'll gain plenty of muscle in a short while. Also have lots of oatmeal for your cholesterol levels from the steaks.*


*-I'm not kidding. All of this actually works.


Don't mess with powders and supplements and the like. They'll just give you diarrhea.

 

[arniesays]

Will it?

you need to go on a routine based around squat, deadlift, bench press, military press, barbell rows, HEAVY ab work, and HEAVY lower back work. many programs dont have much focus on abs and lower back.

you should also be on a routine aimed towards building strength. forget about these hypertrohpy program and go on a routine which has a primary aim of adding weight to the bar on a constant basis.

you also need to be sure you balance the intensity with the volume.

id start off with something like

monday:
bench press: 2 x 5
DB bench press: 2 x 4-6
close grip bench press: 2 x 6-8
heavy abs - weighted sit ups: 2 x 10

wednesday:
Pullups: 2 x 5 (add weight if needed)
barbell rows: 2 x 5
standing military press: 2 x 4-6
barbell curls: 2 x 8-10

friday
squats/ deadlifts (rotate between the 2 weekly): 2 x 5
Good mornings: 2 x 6
Hanging leg raises: 3 x 6

this is just a vague routine as i know nothing about you. it doesnt look like much work, and due to that many people will think its rubbish. but the truth is, this workout is 100 times better than the routines you read in bodybuilding magazines.
if you are a hardgainer, then you want to go on a program that has as little work as possible. if can handle more volume than this, than add an extra set of each exercise in. on friday you could also add in an extra exercise such as lunges, romanian deadlifts or stiff legged deadlifts.

but until you know whther you are a hardgainer or not then stick with lower volume, but work hard. however, keep one rep short of failure on each set.

 

[arniesays]

Lift heavy weights, eat steaks--lots of them--and anything else you want. You'll gain plenty of muscle in a short while. Also have lots of oatmeal for your cholesterol levels from the steaks.*


*-I'm not kidding. All of this actually works.


Don't mess with powders and supplements and the like. They'll just give you diarrhea.

i agree with the first bit. lift heavy, eat big.

however supps dont give everyone diarrhea, though they arent essential to get big anyway. the supps you should certianly be taking is a multivitamin and multimineral. fish oil is also good, and a protien powder will help.

 

[AKIRA]

Yea but I'm not really interested in getting stronger I just want to get bigger/ripped. I'll concentrate more on abs since I have like a thin layer of fat covering them..you can kinda see them/kinda not...and btw I'm pretty skinny, just flabby in my stomach area.

I think somethings wrong with my abs..they're like all weird, i do tons of ab workouts and i play soccer n all that and do martial arts so i get good cardio but my abs don't show...

 

[D3pth Charge]

yes but his point is that the best way to get bigger is to get stronger. the trendy workout regimens are crap and dont really work. Getting a basic, good-formed workout style down quickly is your best bet at gaining weight and continuing to gain rather than plateuing. I went from 180 to 210 in a little over a year and am still gaining lean mass on a regular basis. It's as easy as upping your intensity each time you workout and changing up your splits every 4-5 weeks.

 

[Razor]

STFU moron. I've eaten like a pig for years and never gained a pound, why? Awesome metabolism. How much weight I gain depends on whether or not my body actually needs the food. I never said that the workout would make me gain weight, I'm not that dumb.

Now GTFO you little newb, you're obnoxious.

Try 24-48 and you might be closer.

72 hours is closer to the truth, infact if you're doing a very heavy and hard workout, it's closer to 7 days, unless you're on steroids. It's also why anyone who works out the same muscle group everyday isn't going to notice any gains and is more likely to notice a loss in both size and power.

 

[AKIRA]

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread you guys answered a lot of questions I had so thanks

One last one, anyone know a good workout for the abs? I need to get mine to show..you can KINDA see them but thats only if i like pull my skin down if you know what i mean lol.