Quantum = Neato, educate yourself.

[clarky003]

lots of people wanting to know about about vaccum energy, so ..

here's a great thread on the scientific viewpoint of the quantum vaccum (zero point), the source that dictates the rules of our physcial universe,,

prepare to go where the rules are not the same.


http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=44213

Real particles can scatter off these virtual particles, producing corrections that are simply not there in the classical picture. These particles may be virtual, but they have a real set of properties that we can detect and measure via their interactions with others

so from that , we now know that virtual particles have to exist, or there must be an energy form of some sort keeping the physical matter around in the way that it is.

but like it says there virtual because we cant percieve them directley.. this is definately where perception matters, we can see the effects, but cant percieve them, like the wind blowing a tree and making it sway, nothing can be seen, but the effects are evident.

anyway.. just a little thought I had, because there is a theory that allows you to create and obtain virtual particles in extra amounts realsed through the electron... think ive said this before,

but if you can , through magnetic stress, and forced flows of high concentrations of electron's.. get enough electrons colliding/ energising each other, then you can impart more energy upon a large quantity of them, the difference in there normal energy and there new increased energy, realeases virtual particles, (energy), which manifest's as a photon, the energy output from the electrons (theorising) could be pushed way past a neutral amount, with extra energy flowing off , if you could store that energy you would beable to retrieve self sustaining amounts, if you could create enough extra energy from the vaccum...

I wonder what you could do with the vaccum.. if we could use it as a medium somehow..?

the laws of our universe dont apply there, so in theory you could send a vaccum message , instantniously, to any point in the universe (aslong as the thechnology to recieve and send is there) if you could manipulate the virtual particles, through the electron's interaction with them.

I dont know, im just creating idea's at the potential of the vaccum if it could be harnessed, its fascinating.

... stargates?, you name, it, you could theoretically manipulate matter, space, absolutely anything, simply because the vaccum is everywhere.

 

[Death.Trap]

Can't wait to see all you smart peoples argue this out. I'm interested in this kinda stuff, but I'm only in AP physics....so basically that whole post makes no sense to me. I understand what your getting at, but the whole magnetic stress and force flows part kinda throws me off =)

 

[clarky003]

Scientist's dont acutally argue about the existence of the vaccum, its becoming ever more apparent, ... its the ways of tapping into it that need to be tested, and tryed, ... a certain patented device I heard of already claims to do this, along with a rotating magnetic Gryo bearing. its amazing, to think about... kind of like when tesla stumbled across electricity.

Id just love to know what the Scientific community are upto, if there actually attempting practical means of manipulating the electron and the virtual particles at present.

the magnetic force is simple, its just there to constrain the flow of electrons, to keep them in a channel, so they interact more readily.

heirarchy,

manipulate the mangetic force

^

magnetic force manipulates the electrons flow

^

eletron flow, (extra emparted energy if obtained) manipulates virtual particles

^

which inturn manipulates the energy released.

 

[Death.Trap]

Come on, theres gotta be a www.whatscientistareuptotoday.com out there somewhere. You should be able to find a site that talks about going ons in the scientific community.

 

[hasan]

I kinda wonder why you accept this but don't accept relativity.

anyways, I've got absolutly no idea about this subject.

 

[clarky003]

i never said i didnt accept relativity hasan,, i was only pointing out that the whole, time, light , mass relationship , is a human relationship, and our senses are limited , and so are we as a being... so relativity maybe truth to us as humans, but may be a far cry away from the truthful essence of the universe.

perfect example is the vaccum.

saying relativity is valid to the whole universe is being ignorant in your own senses, because there maybe beings out there who use other undetected mediums for measurement, or when someone dies.. is relativity going to apply to your universe then?, even if you have an afterlife..?,, saying relativity is right to us, is correct. saying its right to the whole universe is like saying we are some sort of almighty one, and our 5 senses apply to everything.

but anyway back on topic..

 

[Jakeic]

Is this the zero point energy thing?

 

[clarky003]

yes Jakeic ,

another point, from that heirarchy,

you can correlate magnetisim to be a natural extension of the vaccum, from virtual (vaccum) state, to physical manifestation.

each subsequent component affects each other, so the vaccum works two ways, like a loop from vaccum to physical, from physical to vaccum, ... like a flow of energy, a naturally harmoneous system.

 

[Death.Trap]

Clarky, how did you learn all this? I mean...wow..

 

[Jakeic]

it is all very confusing to say the least.

 

[hasan]

i never said i didnt accept relativity hasan,, i was only pointing out that the whole, time, light , mass relationship , is a human relationship, and our senses are limited , and so are we as a being... so relativity maybe truth to us as humans, but may be a far cry away from the truthful essence of the universe.

perfect example is the vaccum.

saying relativity is valid to the whole universe is being ignorant in your own senses, because there maybe beings out there who use other undetected mediums for measurement, or when someone dies.. is relativity going to apply to your universe then?, even if you have an afterlife..?,, saying relativity is right to us, is correct. saying its right to the whole universe is like saying we are some sort of almighty one, and our 5 senses apply to everything.

but anyway back on topic..

no no, that's not what you were saying. you didn't accept the prediction of the theory that time slows down as you approach C.
This has nothing to do with other realms.

 

[Death.Trap]

If time stops flowing at C. Then if you go faster than C, shouldn't time start to flow in reverse?


Havn't they proved that time slows down as you approach light speed?


I personally believe it's possible to travel at superluminous speeds. We just have to figure out how to go faster than C without actually going C first.


Ok clarky how do we do it? =)

 

[clarky003]

This has nothing to do with other realms.

yes it does, i was talking about perception as part of the equation (perceptual realm's), because , like i said , another being in the cosmos may use different means to percieve, so it's theory's wouldnt correspond with ours.. so who would be right??? , nobody. because if they had 3 different senses, and they used neutrino's as the a main source of perception, to them they would see the universe differently, although still concious and under definition, 'alive'.,,

I dont suppose anyone can actually break the mould here, and see what im going on about, the theory of relativity is correct, yes, to us, in our own perceptual realm.

 

[Death.Trap]

yes it does, i was talking about perception as part of the equation, because , like i said , another being in the cosmos may use different means to percieve, so its theory's wouldnt correspond with ours.. so who would be right??? , nobody. because if they had 3 different senses, and they used neutrino's as the a main source of perception, to them they would see the universe differently, although still concious.,, I dont suppose anyone can actually break the mould here, and see what im going on about.

I understand what you mean. It makes perfect sense. I'll try to make a comparison....


EDITED-because I feel like an idiot every time i read it...

 

[clarky003]

yeh not the strongest example.. but you got it, , thats what i was babbling on about in the other thread,, its just im terrible with words .

see Death trap, the universe isnt what it seems, ... only in our human body does it seem this way..

but the great thing about our mind, is we dont have to be ignorant in our own senses, we can look beyond it,, thats what the vaccum is all about, thats why we were naturally given an imagination,, we are evolved as a biological extension of the vaccum, and now we are able to conciously realise this, before it was only unconcious.. belive me people who can realise this have great reason to be exited.

not sure if you can get this aswell, but new science is learning that it all is one vaste tapestry of energy, in layers, levels, our physical body is built for this level, our mind is an extension of the vaccum, so theory suggest's that the vaccum is conciousness itself.

One conciousness, in the physically percieved many.

everything is very much one big fat illusion,, but by heck its a fun one , my lower brain try's to denie it but my higher brain keeps smacking it down with the virtual particles.

basically its clear in my mind that through methodical work in the heirarchy, its quite possible to manipulate our percievable physical universe fit through the background fabric of the vaccum.

weither it be folding space, to create a wormhole, or creating a shield of manifested energy to protect a city , or a space craft.
to drawing energy to power everything electrical. aslong as we have the input, which is all around us anyway.

 

[blahblahblah]

yeh not the strongest example.. but you got it, , thats what i was babbling on about in the other thread,, its just im terrible with words .

see Death trap, the universe isnt what it seems, ... only in our human body does it seem this way..

but the great thing about our mind, is we dont have to be ignorant in our own senses, we can look beyond it,, thats what the vaccum is all about.

Why is magnetism the answer though? It seems so random. Is there any scientific proof that magnetism has special properties to access this vaccum?

From my understanding of things, this vacuum sounds more like a dimension that we can't perceive.

 

[Death.Trap]

It has to be impossible for humans, as we are to fully understand the universe. Because we are limited like you said to our 5 senses. Even data, such as the detection of neutrinos has to somehow be translated into the raw data that our senses feed on.

Which kinda sucks...


Clarky tell me what you think about the whole going faster than light deal. You seem pretty damn smart, I'm curious to know what your opinion on that is.
(you already know mine)




EDIT-Can someone define what the vacuum is? I know a vacuum in it's purest form is space. An area with nothing in it. We usually refer to a vacuum as having no air. But that's obviously completely different than what you guys are talking about.



sorry to hikack your thread clarky =)

 

[DoctorGordon]

i never said i didnt accept relativity hasan,, i was only pointing out that the whole, time, light , mass relationship , is a human relationship, and our senses are limited , and so are we as a being... so relativity maybe truth to us as humans, but may be a far cry away from the truthful essence of the universe.

You're the 3rd person I've ever met that thought this.

(1 being myself)

 

[DoctorGordon]

Where does everyone keep getting this 5 senses thing from? Its 6 senses (The "6th sense" [Which is capable of detecting a wide variety of things]).

 

[Death.Trap]

Regular humans only have 5 senses.

 

[Steve]

man...science is HARD

 

[Death.Trap]

You're the 3rd person I've ever met that thought this.

(1 being myself)

BTW You can count me as the 4th.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

EDIT-Can someone define what the vacuum is? I know a vacuum in it's purest form is space. An area with nothing in it. We usually refer to a vacuum as having no air. But that's obviously completely different than what you guys are talking about.

actually, it's not really. "vacuum" is just a bad word for it. the better term is zero-point field, or ZPF. the ZPF is just a theoretical fall-out of the heisenberg uncertainty principle (HUP). b/c of HUP, the energy state of any point should not be exactly zero. basically, every point in spacetime must have a minimum possible energy associated with it, the zero-point energy. sum up all of the ZPEs for space and you get a ZPF.

this is all fine and dandy, and is part of QM, but all of the metaphysical and philosophical extension that clarky goes into is completely hyperbolic to the actual science, and has little rational basis. imo, of course.

 

[clarky003]

i honestly think propelling yourself with a standard 'push', would have terrible ramifications on the senses if you were able to pass C

, 1. everything would just black out

2. you would be seemingly disembodied, as you watch you and your ship travel backwards, ... but I honestly think that it would all just be a play on light.

once you dropped out down to a stationary speed (in relationship to your movement 'smart arse protection')

the effect of light would return to normal as it entered the eye, and you would slowley see everything change around you,, even though you can still feel that everything is present in the craft, when you feel natural movement, of say.. a cup that you pick up,, it feels normal,, but the image is delayed.

so it runs into 'perception problems', i dunno about you, but as a human that would drive me nuts.

so, the only way you can sanely travel faster than C as a human is to fold space, using the vaccum., so the actual jump is warped point to point contact of start and end point, but the distance covered maybe light years, you dont go faster than C infact you dont even move, the pinch essentially makes space move you as you move across a compressed section of space,,, to an observer you would just dissappear. ,

Why is magnetism the answer though? It seems so random. Is there any scientific proof that magnetism has special properties to access this vaccum?

magnetism has a definative affect on the electron. e.g you can restrain and direct them with magnetic's, and you need to do that to attempt to empart more energy to create the differential to create random virtual particles to manifest extra energy.

its rational Lil timmy, because science cant apply physical experimentation to the vaccum, the medium of science is limited and is only scratching the surface here, its much more than science. However they can use the manifested phenomena to try and tap back into it, but science is limited without P-conciousness in the equation, and you refer to science that is still seperate of this, but to understand the vaccum you have to include, energy, mass , and conciousness.

 

[DoctorGordon]

Regular humans only have 5 senses.

Everyone has a 6th sense, i speculate its the virtual part of the brain where thought and the consciousness "overlap". Often people "sense" things, they get a feeling about something, and it turns out to be fact (which i propose that all "facts" exist physically [the fact itself, not evidence of a fact]). Or take telepathy for example, you think something, and are able to transfer it to another person via the consciousness. And telekinesis; the consciousness is able to manipulate certain forms of energies in the universe (I have a friend who can burn out fluorescent bulbs, or make them flicker at will).

 

[Lil' Timmy]

(I have a friend who can burn out fluorescent bulbs, or make them flicker at will).

link please

understand that most people don't recognize what you are talking about as anything more than fantasy. i'm open to the possibility, but have seen no remotely compelling evidence yet.

 

[hasan]

ofcourse I agree that our senses are very limited, there are just way too many things that are byond us.
that doesn't mean we reject everything because "what if it's not as we see it?", I mean, I could start form here and get redicilous (and people have don eit before), what if I am the only thign that exists, and everything else is just in my imagination? how do I know that you guys really exist and are beings just like me, what if I'm having a dream now? I can't tell if it's a dream or not, because as far as my brain is concerned, there is no difference.
or what if I'm sitting in a psych. lab and my brain is being fed signals from I don't know where?

 

[Steve]

yeah...and flourescent bulbs? let's see him blow out a CANDLE with his brain...THAT'd be impressive.

 

[clarky003]

link please

understand that most people don't recognize what you are talking about as anything more than fantasy. i'm open to the possibility, but have seen no remotely compelling evidence yet.

maybe you should try some experiments yourself. have you heard of EVP devices lil Timmy, you need some enlightening.

ofcourse I agree that our senses are very limited, there are just way too many things that are byond us.
that doesn't mean we reject everything because "what if it's not as we see it?", I mean, I could start form here and get redicilous (and people have don eit before), what if I am the only thign that exists, and everything else is just in my imagination? how do I know that you guys really exist and are beings just like me, what if I'm having a dream now? I can't tell if it's a dream or not, because as far as my brain is concerned, there is no difference.
or what if I'm sitting in a psych. lab and my brain is being fed signals from I don't know where?

but i dont care wheither my brain thinks this or that... I want to know the truth behind it all, and I know in order to do that I cant always formulatively work things out through my senses, I have to dream , and draw and create things, . and think outside the box, to what it would be like if my perception was different, or try and imagine that your another being of some type.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

ofcourse I agree that our senses are very limited, there are just way too many things that are byond us.
that doesn't mean we reject everything because "what if it's not as we see it?", I mean, I could start form here and get redicilous (and people have don eit before), what if I am the only thign that exists, and everything else is just in my imagination? how do I know that you guys really exist and are beings just like me, what if I'm having a dream now? I can't tell if it's a dream or not, because as far as my brain is concerned, there is no difference.
or what if I'm sitting in a psych. lab and my brain is being fed signals from I don't know where?

descartes anyone :cheers:
maybe we shouldn't get into straight philo in this thread, but it's kinda there already anyway :|

 

[DoctorGordon]

link please

understand that most people don't recognize what you are talking about as anything more than fantasy. i'm open to the possibility, but have seen no remotely compelling evidence yet.

Link to what? I, personally have a friend, its not some bonehead on the web. If you dont believe me i dont really care, infact i dont think anyone will believe me regardless of what i say, but the point is to take it into consideration.

 

[clarky003]

Philosophy, Science, Mysticism, its all important, why not have a 'go' atleast , at trying to intermingle, .. see if we can get anywhere with it..

they all are equal when applicable to the vaccum, because its beyond any perceptual range, perhaps even philosophy and mysticism, can bridge the gaps that science solves, I consider science as a puzzle solver, but we only have the edge of the pieces here, you need theory from philosophy and mystics to bridge the gap.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

maybe you should try some experiments yourself. have you heard of EVP devices lil Timmy, you need some enlightening.

you mean electronic voice phenomena i assume. yeah, heard of it, it's nonsense. at least that's the assumption a rational person has to proceed on; until i see some compelling evidence, so shall it remain. only evidence will enlighten me, not wrote conjecture.

Link to what? I, personally have a friend, its not some bonehead on the web. If you dont believe me i dont really care, infact i dont think anyone will believe me regardless of what i say, but the point is to take it into consideration.

i was saying i'd like to see a video or something of your friend doing this. 1) it be a remarkable demonstration. 2)you care at least a little whether people believe you or not.. everyone does. besides, why would you have even bothered stating that if it was not to make yourself more credible?

Philosophy, Science, Mysticism, its all important, why not have a 'go' atleast , at trying to intermingle, .. see if we can get anywhere with it..

they all are equal when applicable to the vaccum, because its beyond any perceptual range, perhaps even philosophy and mysticism, can bridge the gaps that science solves, I consider science as a puzzle solver, but we only have the edge of the pieces here, you need theory from philosophy and mystics to bridge the gap.

for me philosophy is the hypothesizing that fills in the gaps of scientific understanding, and as a consequence philosophy is constantly being amended as scientific understanding expands. mysticism is irrational babble, and has no place in the discussion for me.

 

[clarky003]

whatever floats your boat

Lil Timmy, there are blueprints I can get, and you can have a go for yourself. or maybe ill have a go, and voice my findings. it has something to do with scalar wave detection,, and the energy envolved apparently records voices, that can in many cases be clearly heard , all eminating from another realm,, which may possibly have something to do with Zero point.

bit weird, but people who use it proffess it works too good.

 

[blahblahblah]

magnetism has a definative affect on the electron. e.g you can restrain and direct them with magnetic's, and you need to do that to attempt to empart more energy to create the differential to create random virtual particles to manifest extra energy.

If magnetism was the answer, we would have likely observed it in large magnets. We have yet to observe free energy.

I doubt the ordering of a magnet(s) will affect the energy potential (in reference to a magnetic zero-energy motor). In addition, you have state that a sign of free energy is the release of photons. However, in the perendev "free energy" motor, we did not see the emission of any photons while it was operating. How do you explain that discrepancy?

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Lil Timmy, there are blueprints I can get, and you can have a go for yourself. or maybe ill have a go, and voice my findings. it has something to do with scalar wave detection,, and the energy envolved apparently records voices, that can in many cases be clearly heard , all eminating from another realm,, which may possibly have something to do with Zero point.

bit weird, but people who use it proffess it works too good.

most people who believe in something sing it's praises.. snake oil anyone? but post your findings if you get one, i'll be as interrested as anyone else.

If magnetism was the answer, we would have likely observed it in large magnets. We have yet to observe free energy.

kinda depends on what you think about john searle.

 

[clarky003]

If magnetism was the answer, we would have likely observed it in large magnets. We have yet to observe free energy.

I doubt the order of a magnet will affect the energy potential. In additional, this being related to a magnetic motor, you have state that a sign of free energy is the release of photons. However, in the perendev "free energy" motor, we did not see the emission of any photons while it was operating. How do you explain that discrepancy?

its not 'free' energy, free energy devices are zero point devices, even there not 'free', its a misconception, the laws dont operate the same at zero point which is how your able to obtain virtual particles, a never ending supply.

the perendev motor is an overunity motor, that uses special shielding that eradicates the neutralising affect between the magnets at a set distance, allowing the pure repelling affect to take place where focused, the natural force of permanent magnets dont diminish in power for decades, even hundreds of years. dont ask me how they have shielded it, i got a good idea, but it envloves keeping unwanted flux leakage away from interaction.

 

[Steve]

damn... you guys are smart. where can i get smart real good like you guys?

 

[Lil' Timmy]

damn... you guys are smart. where can i get smart real good like you guys?

a secret mountain base in bhutan.

 

[clarky003]

lol,, I thought we lived under Shian mountain