Question about ragdolls.

[Burn]

I know all about ragdolls... but this is a real odd question, not too sure how to word it right, so I'll use an example.

On the TRAPTOWN video, when Gordon picked up a radiator, throwing it at a combine, so died, thus falling over due to ragdoll.

What I want to know is, are the npcs in HL2 allways ragdolled, for example if you threw something at there legs that did'nt kill them, would they fall over? Or does'nt this happan till they die and there "ragdoll" turns on.

Reason I ask is in the thread about striders, alot of people are thinking you can kill them by knocking them over (hitting there legs) but if the ragdoll system does not atervate till its dead.. Thats why I wanted to ask this questions..

 

[Axyon]

I'm fairly sure that Valve will have gone for something like 'they're either dead or they're not', meaning there's going to be no falling over or anything else like that. Throw a barrel at their legs and they either die and ragdoll over them, or they'll flinch for a second, then continue to fight you. That's my estimation, anyway.

 

[Sai]

i doubt people fall down in rag doll and get back up, it's just a triggered thing, once dead the npc's body shall fall in a hookie fashion

 

[Burn]

Pitty, would be kinda cool to use something like a barrel to knock them over, then shoot them to death, or use the barrel to point blank till them in the face.. Not very importent though, just thought I'd ask.

 

[Axyon]

Pitty, would be kinda cool to use something like a barrel to knock them over, then shoot them to death, or use the barrel to point blank till them in the face.. Not very importent though, just thought I'd ask.

You could e-mail a Valve staff member, they'd have the proper answer. Be sure to add it to our information thread if you get an answer, though!

 

[lans]

I'm fairly sure that Valve will have gone for something like 'they're either dead or they're not', meaning there's going to be no falling over or anything else like that. Throw a barrel at their legs and they either die and ragdoll over them, or they'll flinch for a second, then continue to fight you. That's my estimation, anyway.

Yeah, that sorta make sense. When the zombie get's hit in the traptown video he crawls on the floor towards Gordon. So he's not dead and continues to fight.

 

[Axyon]

Yeah, that sorta make sense. When the zombie get's hit in the traptown video he crawls on the floor towards Gordon. So he's not dead and continues to fight.

Yeah, it's going to always be an extra animation like that, since Valve already said that people won't blend from animation to ragdoll, then back to animation in Half-Life 2. It's moddable, but it won't be there at the start. So falling over may be in, but it'll just be an animation, like in Max Payne 2.

 

[Sai]

if ragdoll can only occur when the game see's that the unit is dead, than would that make it sort of......scripted?

 

[RoguePsi]

I think (not sure at all) this was mentioned in the Valve thread. You can knock NPC's over and they'd get back up, but I don't think they'd ragdoll as such.

 

[lans]

I think (not sure at all) this was mentioned in the Valve thread. You can knock NPC's over and they'd get back up, but I don't think they'd ragdoll as such.

If you remember carefully in the E32003 docks bink the zombie got up when he saw us. What if you could make it fall down (with the crowbar) and it uses the same animation to get up and fight again? sorry if I didn't apply any technincal term here but that's what I think and hopefully you got the message. Let's hope valve reads my email and answers back...

 

[ferd]

merc- (the guy who playtested HL2 and CS:S) said that the models reacted when they were hit by bullets.
So yes, all NPC's are ragdolled even if they dont die.
It's also somewhere in the Official Info Thread

 

[Eejit]

But are the reactions flinch animations or ragdolling? There's a bit of a difference.

 

[Rupertvdb]

if ragdoll can only occur when the game see's that the unit is dead, than would that make it sort of......scripted?

Note your sig.... everything is scripted to a degree, taking shots could be seen as scripted, the ai takes a note of the enviroment i.e. notices you and chooses the path to take, running and firing is one script etc... The conversion of live to ragdoll is defnitly not 'scripted' in the sense of preset events occuring at the same point in the same way that drove HL.

I think it needs to be made clear that HL2 shall have scripting just like all games, this shall be to drive the plot by introducing elements to the game rather than presetting things like teammates moving when you reach a certain point.

 

[Crusader]

It's a piece of software. of course it is scripted in a sense, it doesn't re-write itself as it goes on ^^

That said, scripting in the traditional sense is not present in HL2, it does not even contain a scripting language per se.

People have to stop seeing scripted sequences like something terrible, too. The perceived negativity surrounding scripting is bugging me.

"Oh noes, teh storyline is script0red, Valve sucks!"

 

[James Isaac]

I'm pretty sure in Max Payne 2 if you shot someone they would go flying like a ragdoll, then if you hadn't shot them enough, they would do a little roll and get back up and start fighting.

 

[Cyanide]

merc- (the guy who playtested HL2 and CS:S) said that the models reacted when they were hit by bullets.
So yes, all NPC's are ragdolled even if they dont die.
It's also somewhere in the Official Info Thread

That's not ragdoll. That's just animation blending. They've said before that the NPCs are physicly simulated. Since the engine uses a skeletal animation system it's not too hard to apply a little force to a bone when it gets hit by an object. If enough force is applied to say, a leg bone, it could fly out from under the NPC and cause them to fall. Getting back up would be a simple matter of determining the rotation of the NPCs body (via the normal of the model's root for example) and blending its current postion with the animation for getting up from either laying on its front or laying on its back (or possibly even sitting up).

Valve even said that they played around with allowing Gordon to get knocked down when he was hit by something, but they found that it was awkward and made the game less fun. So I would imagine if Gordon could be knocked down without dying, then the NPCs can too.

 

[OCybrManO]

I'm pretty sure in Max Payne 2 if you shot someone they would go flying like a ragdoll, then if you hadn't shot them enough, they would do a little roll and get back up and start fighting.

That's a canned animation, not ragdoll. Once you see the animation several times it is very easy to tell if they are dead when you knock them down.

Valve even said that they played around with allowing Gordon to get knocked down when he was hit by something, but they found that it was awkward and made the game less fun. So I would imagine if Gordon could be knocked down without dying, then the NPCs can too.

Ummm, they didn't have to make Gordon animate properly when he gets knocked down... unlike the NPCs.

 

[FoB_Ed]

Guys, go rent Psi-Ops for the PS2. Whenever you knock someone over with a barrel or something the ragdoll and then get up back again. It even happens to the player model, it's so cool and fluid looking, so it is possible to do

 

[urseus]

It wouldnt be that hard.

Say in dod source, you could have somone get hit by a nade, have them ragdoll simulating them being unconcious and go flying for 10 seconds. Then you just turn ragdoll off again and they get up.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

It wouldnt be that hard.

Say in dod source, you could have somone get hit by a nade, have them ragdoll simulating them being unconcious and go flying for 10 seconds. Then you just turn ragdoll off again and they get up.

Something like that is difficult.

The rag dolled body could end up in any position. How do you then annimate a body getting up from any position.


I am in awe of people who can solve these problems.

 

[Aphal]

merc- (the guy who playtested HL2 and CS:S) said that the models reacted when they were hit by bullets.
So yes, all NPC's are ragdolled even if they dont die.

WTF does this have to do with anything? It could be an animation for all we know...

 

[urseus]

Something like that is difficult.

The rag dolled body could end up in any position. How do you then annimate a body getting up from any position.


I am in awe of people who can solve these problems.

Some good points there. If it was flat ground normally the person would fall fairly flat, so theres only a few positions to animate getting up from, flat on back, and flat on front.

If they fell across sandbags or something that would be hard.

 

[Axyon]

Guys, go rent Psi-Ops for the PS2. Whenever you knock someone over with a barrel or something the ragdoll and then get up back again. It even happens to the player model, it's so cool and fluid looking, so it is possible to do

Yeah it's possible, it's just not going to be in Half-Life 2.

 

[Cyanide]

Ummm, they didn't have to make Gordon animate properly when he gets knocked down... unlike the NPCs.

That would be pretty weird if you were laying on the ground and you looked around and couldn't see any of your own body. Or even if you were just standing around and couldn't see any of your own body. That would sort of take you out of the emersion wouldn't it.

Anyway, I love how everybody tries to pass off what they say as if they actually know something about the source engine (I'm guilty of this myself sometimes). If you have some reliable source, like a post from a Valve staff member, then you can get away with that. But unless you have that, your opinion carries no more weight than anybody elses. Unless you've got proof that you've seen source code and/or played a version of the game that isn't almost a year old.

 

[urseus]

In flashpoint when you died, your view fell backwards and you saw your hand fall over and your legs and body, exactly as you would in real life.

In half life 2 its more like your floating head has been dropped on the ground and is waiting for somone to pick you up.

 

[mutt]

its a shame they wont stand up, this can be done, it has been done

its also possible to have ragdolls which can put their arms out when fallin of a wall for example. anyone know if this is in hl2?

 

[EVIL]

It's a piece of software. of course it is scripted in a sense, it doesn't re-write itself as it goes on ^^

That said, scripting in the traditional sense is not present in HL2, it does not even contain a scripting language per se.

People have to stop seeing scripted sequences like something terrible, too. The perceived negativity surrounding scripting is bugging me.

"Oh noes, teh storyline is script0red, Valve sucks!"

indeed.. call of duty was so scripted but it was one of the best and funnest SP experiences I ever had