Question for a mod. Also PhyTown 1 Vrs Phytown in movie.

[mayro]

PhyTown 1 Vrs Phytown in movie.

In phystown their was a big debate over weather or not everything was scripted since the beta came out. I dont know if anyone ever thought of it but after viweing some things i have come to the conclusion that the reason the beam swang on entry to the Leak was becuase like many of the other maps- they wernt finished.

So for phystowns defense just to give you the idea on it, the reason it wang without being shot in the leak was becuase the map builder hadent put a value on how much weight to hold or dmg to take b4 brakeing. So the weight of the object broke the wood.

Also the map where you see barney and are attacking the combine soldiers down the road that was also not scripted fyi, even in the leak BARNEY isnt even on that map.. So without giveing any info away... in valves defense since they dont speak any more, their lvls were not scripted in the Movie / They were working on the maps that were taken, they were not finished.

 

[wonkers]

please take the time to word yourself better or proof read your work. It's hard to follow what you said in that post

 

[mayro]

Sorry, ill work on that for the next one. Ive been sick all day.

 

[kaf11]

yeah, i dont get what youre asking

 

[mayro]

I better Stated it and cleaned it up abit, the quetion for the mod would be what info are we allowed to post? Ive read some fourms on here and it seems like as long as we talk about things that were in the movie... its ok?

I would like to know cus at my friends house ive seen alot of differances... From the Leak to the movies. Id like to help clear valve on this, i relise this is a bit of a dead topic but from what i read no one ever thought of stuff like this.

 

[Foxtrot]

I stopped reading where I thought I might see a spoiler, but A LOT of things from the leaked build don't work.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Yeah, those things you are talking about have been discussed at length a long time ago when the "beta" first came out.

But I don't think we can talk about that here any more.

Which I kinda like.
This is the only HL2 site where I can get away from the beta lol.

 

[mrchimp]

There is absolutely no reason why valve would script the beam when they have a physics system in place, anything concerning physics won't have to be triggered via a script in the final game, it would be harder to script everything than just the material system and physics engine.

The thing that might be scripted is when the strider blows up the bridge and in failing to destroy it, go under it. Alot of people find it hard to believe the AI is that intelligent, although all the AI had to do was target a destructable object blocking it's path then go under it if that failed, programing an AI to duck is not that amazeing. Unless it did it without useing the 'hint' system.

 

[mayro]

Sorry, i didnt put any spoilers in their. As for the valve video released thats pretty much what i talked about, the suddel differances that prove valve wasent lieing.

 

[mayro]

Well since that was in the video i think i can talk about it. A few things to note... the F and the U was the only moveable letters on that map. THEY wanted to say FU to the strider.

The thing it blew up "the wall" was brakeable in the same way the strider did even if you use the rocket launcher. Also, i dont think valve said it was all un scripted. Ill stop their with the strider talk.

 

[Axyon]

I better Stated it and cleaned it up abit, the quetion for the mod would be what info are we allowed to post? Ive read some fourms on here and it seems like as long as we talk about things that were in the movie... its ok?

I would like to know cus at my friends house ive seen alot of differances... From the Leak to the movies. Id like to help clear valve on this, i relise this is a bit of a dead topic but from what i read no one ever thought of stuff like this.

Talking about any content from official movies is fine, we do try to keep the information about the leak to a minimum though, but it's pretty much allowed so long as it's no spoiler or anything like that. If you must discuss a storyline aspect from the leak, use the Storyline Discussion Forum.

May I also remind you that no-one is allowed to post a link to a download of the leak itself.

 

[Foxtrot]

What about pictures of the leak as long as there are no spoilers?

 

[Axyon]

What about pictures of the leak as long as there are no spoilers?

No pictures.

 

[mrchimp]

The thing it blew up "the wall" was brakeable in the same way the strider did even if you use the rocket launcher. Also, i dont think valve said it was all un scripted. Ill stop their with the strider talk.

You mean the strider still shot at the bridge even if you had already blown it up?

Well if you think about it, the Strider would still try and see if it could demolish the rest of it, even if it's not scripted.

 

[eraser]

You mean the strider still shot at the bridge even if you had already blown it up?

Well if you think about it, the Strider would still try and see if it could demolish the rest of it, even if it's not scripted.

I think he meant that the bridge would still blow up as if the strider shot it, (blowing outwards) even if you used the RPG.

 

[Vegeta897]

Grrr, stop using the beta as a reference to what the Source engine can do! The suspended beam in the town level was physical in the beta, I could stop it, (it was very heavy and took alot of well placed RPG's) but the point is it was a physical object. And now your saying you can talk about the HL2 storyline even though the game isn't out? Make up your mind, and as Valve said, they used alot of placeholders in the E3 demo, just to show what to EXPECT from the AI.
Please stop the judgements from the beta, this is exactly what Valve is trying to prevent.

Plus it annoys me that I know the answer but can't say a darn word.

 

[Moto]

Grrr, stop using the beta as a reference to what the Source engine can do! The suspended beam in the town level was physical in the beta, I could stop it, (it was very heavy and took alot of well placed RPG's) but the point is it was a physical object. And now your saying you can talk about the HL2 storyline even though the game isn't out? Make up your mind, and as Valve said, they used alot of placeholders in the E3 demo, just to show what to EXPECT from the AI.
Please stop the judgements from the beta, this is exactly what Valve is trying to prevent.

What he said^^^

 

[Vegeta897]

Right.
Okay mods, unless someone sees if this thread can go somewhere else, close 'er up.




YAY 100 posts! ^_^

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Ahhh, I barely remember haveing only 100 posts....



I spend too much time here. Specially since the game isnt even out lol.

 

[Letters]

When I had 100 posts... we couldn't even see our postcounts!

But I could see that I was a zomber!


I like the name 'Traptown' better.

 

[Vegeta897]

I like the name 'Traptown' better.

Hmm, well I didn't want to use "Phystown" because that's the bsp name for it in the beta.

That's not a spoiler right?
("Darnit! You win, it WAS 'phystown.bps' here's your lousy five bucks...")
I mean it dosn't really tell us that the G-Man is really just a scared little boy inside does it?

 

[mayro]

That's awsome, if you have any questions from the video go ahead and ask and ill call up my friend and find out. You dont need to worry for no story line will be exposed in here. What he was mainly doing was flying around the lvls to see what all he could find. You know a like "this map was made by XXXXXX on XXXX for XXXX and best wishs to XXXX.

 

[PvtRyan]

The thing that might be scripted is when the strider blows up the bridge and in failing to destroy it, go under it. Alot of people find it hard to believe the AI is that intelligent, although all the AI had to do was target a destructable object blocking it's path then go under it if that failed, programing an AI to duck is not that amazeing. Unless it did it without useing the 'hint' system.

I doubt AI would be able to do that. It always needs some kind of hint that a certain object is destroyable.
I wonder how the ducking is done though, Valve said the enemy could follow you anywhere where you could go, will every vent and low passage have a hint node?
I know HL had info_air nodes, to give flying units info about where they could go. Does HL2 have nodes for the AI to determine if they could move under a certain object?

In this screenshot, you can see the so called info_node_hint entities in the front viewport. Is it tied to a certain object and it tells the AI whether it can do something with it or not?

 

[mayro]

You know i saw those all over the lvl and had no idea what it meant. Now something that no one seems to mention... is that the leak also had the fgd or what is used to make maps... also it contained the world creator... i cant belive their isnt maps out for it.

 

[Letters]

You know i saw those all over the lvl and had no idea what it meant. Now something that no one seems to mention... is that the leak also had the fgd or what is used to make maps... also it contained the world creator... i cant belive their isnt maps out for it.

I think there are, actually. I haven't seen any of them, though. Probably crappy...

 

[eraser]

You know i saw those all over the lvl and had no idea what it meant. Now something that no one seems to mention... is that the leak also had the fgd or what is used to make maps... also it contained the world creator... i cant belive their isnt maps out for it.

I remember someone on this forum (Zeta) saying there was a map pack released containing over 1000 maps.

 

[mattgirv]

There was, and it is all the maps in the beta + more (all uncompiled obviously)

 

[Vegeta897]

You wouldn't know if there were any maps out unless you've looked...
Yes there is an entire community dedicated to HL2 Beta stuff. There are lots of maps and they are not crappy. I mean well laid out Developer quality maps. The beta doesn't lack the engine, it lacks the stuff to put in the engine, so mapping is very easy and not glitchy. I tried out the editor and made some stuff, very cool. I'm not saying you should do it though.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

The thing that might be scripted is when the strider blows up the bridge and in failing to destroy it, go under it. Alot of people find it hard to believe the AI is that intelligent, although all the AI had to do was target a destructable object blocking it's path then go under it if that failed, programing an AI to duck is not that amazeing. Unless it did it without useing the 'hint' system.

No, I think the real argument about the Strider's AI stemmed from some comments made by Doug Lombardi... He said that they put the Strider in AFTER they had completed the city maps... And that is definitely not evidenced by the beta. He said they were playing that map and when somebody suggested they tried putting a Strider, it walked up to the bridge, tested it, tried to shoot it, then ducked under it. So he was implying that the Strider was the last thing to appear in that map, and when they did put it in, it was doing all those cool things we see in the E3 videos, straight away! With no scripting!

Anyone who's actually played this level in the beta will know that you have to actually execute a script for the Strider... a very incomplete script. It tries to shoot the bridge... obviously scripted. Then you have to trigger it by blowing up the bridge yourself... and then the Strider walks through a wall. It does the same thing everytime... which means the Strider was scripted. I STILL don't understand why they would need to remake that level from the start and script the Strider if the AI was working as fantastically as Doug Lombardi was making out...

 

[Vegeta897]

Doug didn't say that he did EVERYTHING else with just the AI. He just said it tried to blow up the bridge and then walked under it. And you my friend, have not played "all" of the beta. One of the levels is exactly like the E3 demo with the strider, and you don't need to run any scripts or shoot anything on purpose.
And have you seen the Strider ragdoll? It's sooo awesome.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Doug didn't say that he did EVERYTHING else with just the AI. He just said it tried to blow up the bridge and then walked under it. And you my friend, have not played "all" of the beta. One of the levels is exactly like the E3 demo with the strider, and you don't need to run any scripts or shoot anything on purpose.
And have you seen the Strider ragdoll? It's sooo awesome.

What the hell? Really... wtf?

WHAT!?

I counted 2 Striders in the beta... The Kleiner's lab one, and the one with the bridge. Which bit of the E3 video are you talking about?

 

[Vegeta897]

Erm, remeber in the video you see the strider blow up the arc, and then he shoots some guys, and then another one comes. (The people yell out "Strider!" again)
That's three.

 

[mayro]

The lab Strider was scripted... after it attacks you for a few secounds, it just stops and looks at you like uhhh....

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Erm, remeber in the video you see the strider blow up the arc, and then he shoots some guys, and then another one comes. (The people yell out "Strider!" again)
That's three.

I said I counted 2 in the beta. Months ago. Unless you're playing some updated version... That one you're talking about wasn't there.

Edit: Hah. I just did a bit of research. As I expected. You have an updated version. :upstare:

 

[Vegeta897]

Yes the map is in the map pack. Sorry for assuming you would have it...

Good Gordon's glasses! I'm a scanner! Yaay!

 

[Non-Sequitur]

This is the only HL2 site I read... Has everything about that mappack been censored here? I can't believe I never even heard about it... I must have been absent from HL2 class that day. :x

 

[mrchimp]

No, I think the real argument about the Strider's AI stemmed from some comments made by Doug Lombardi... He said that they put the Strider in AFTER they had completed the city maps... And that is definitely not evidenced by the beta. He said they were playing that map and when somebody suggested they tried putting a Strider, it walked up to the bridge, tested it, tried to shoot it, then ducked under it. So he was implying that the Strider was the last thing to appear in that map, and when they did put it in, it was doing all those cool things we see in the E3 videos, straight away! With no scripting!

Anyone who's actually played this level in the beta will know that you have to actually execute a script for the Strider... a very incomplete script. It tries to shoot the bridge... obviously scripted. Then you have to trigger it by blowing up the bridge yourself... and then the Strider walks through a wall. It does the same thing everytime... which means the Strider was scripted. I STILL don't understand why they would need to remake that level from the start and script the Strider if the AI was working as fantastically as Doug Lombardi was making out...

Well if it wasn't scripted and no hint system was used that kind of behavior would require some kind of ray casting method to tell the strider that something is blocking it's path, what object that is exactly, how big that object is and whether or not it's worth trying to blow it up instead of going round it. In the valve information thread it says this method isn't used in HL2 so some kind of hint system must be in place to tell the AI that something is blocking it's path but it could be damaged or destroyed. From the looks of that screenshot the hint system isn't placed manually but instead is worked out by the editor (people who have the beta might know if thats true), if thats the case then AI could do things even the developers don't expect.

If the AI is diverse as Doug claims it to be, then it may do something different almost every time, which means makeing a demo video that shows some cool gameplay in the shortest amount of time possible is most easily achieved through scripting events that the AI has done on it's own.

 

[Vegeta897]

Am I allowed to talk about the whole node system? It's not really ruining the game for you, if anything helping mappers.
I think they do something like this: Valve has a very simple AI go put in the level and see what it does, then that will spark an idea, like trying to blow up the bridge etc... and then recreating that scenario using node hints and stuff. Becuase running directly off the AI could lead to bugs and slow framrate. I dunno, just an idea...