Quick Question Relating to God

[Top Secret]

Just a quick question here;

What the **** does believing in God have to do with OTHER people? :|

 

[dream431ca]

Just a quick question here;

What the **** does believing in God have to do with OTHER people? :|

Because more than 1 person believes in God...this thread won't go to far.

 

[Sainku]

I'm not sure what you mean... are you criticizing organized religion? Are you criticizing a belief in god at all? Are you just pissed off at religion in general and didn't know how to word your post?

 

[Top Secret]

No no, I'm not critizing God. I'm critizing organized religion. No, I'm not pissed. I'm just asking a straightfoward question. What do other people have to do with your relationship with God?

 

[15357]

Just put gaming instead of god and you'll get the idea.

 

[Top Secret]

Gaming is an entertainment medium to which people can enjoy themselves through. God is a 'creative designer' that some people choose to live their lives by. I'd hardly compare them. And to make this clear, and I'm talking about organized religion here, specifically. I've got no beef with some guy who wears a cross and prays everynight before he goes to sleep as it makes him feel better/closer with God. I'm talking about people who go door to door, acting like you're so interested in their way of life. Or people standing outside of a concert telling everyone that it would be a sin to participate in such an event. Or even still people who think they are BETTER than people who do not believe what they believe. (That goes both ways, just to be clear here. Athiests, and believers alike.) I just don't see what your own personal relationship with God has to do with other people. An athiest tells someone who believes in God that they are stupid. Why? Why should he even give a **** at all? Same way the other way around. I've got a mormon friend of mine, and we talked about this subject. He knows that I'm agnostic, and I know that he's Mormon. Yet we have no problems at all. Why? Because we don't judge eachother by our beliefs. He thinks I'm going to hell, and I think he's going no-where. Who cares? For now, we're all just shadows and dust...

 

[Krynn72]

He thinks I'm going to hell, and I think he's going no-where. Who cares?

Maybe thats why people are in other's buisness like that.

If they think you are going to hell, and they truely believe that, then perhaps they are just doing what they can to help you. Maybe some people are actually good hearted enough to care if a stranger is going to hell. You may not think you are, but perhaps they are convinced that if they dont do anything you will suffer for eternity in hell.

I knew someone at work that was always trying to convert me to christianity because she and I were friends and she "didnt want to see me in hell". I didnt change my views, but I appreciated the gesture.

Of course, then there are people who just want to be "right" and prove your beliefs wrong... and they are jerkoffs.

 

[Top Secret]

That's all well and good. I can see the arguement in "Saving another soul" however, might it of occured to them that people well aware of Christianity, Catholism, Judaism, etc etc? And that if I had a further interest I'd persue it on our own?

You ever been walking down the street and some dude jumped in your face and said "Oh hey, you'd better buy this car I'm selling. I don't want to make a profit, but it just pains me to see you walking down the street, which is dangerous. You could be driving, much safer in a car you know." Poor example? Yeah. But it's a pretty unique situation.

Actual convorsation I had:

"Do you go to church?"
"Nope, I'm agnostic myself."
"Oh... so then you like... don't believe in God?"
"Well, I just don't know."
"But the Bible teaches us that..." (trail off here)

Yes, thank you. I'm quite aware. You see, I read the bible when I was deciding what to believe for myself.

How the convo should have gone:

"Do you go to church?"
"Nope, I'm agnostic myself."
"Oh... so then you like... don't believe in God?"
"Well, I just don't know."
"Hah, well you're going to hell. You catch that Yankee game?"

 

[VictimOfScience]

I would hope that people who go around trying to convince others to become believers do it out of the goodness of their heart and they only want to try to make everyone feel as good as they do because of their faith or that their religion teaches peace, love, and understanding and more of that in the world can't be a bad thing.

I fear, however, that this is not always the case. I think that much of it, epsecially lately, is political. Now you've even got evangelical christian groups with TV ads proposing alternative energy sources. Not necessarily a bad thing, but certainly a weird one (though maybe not so much after the SotU address). Its also about money--the more followers, the more donations to the church. Door-to-door mormons and such amount to nothing more than advertising--as if pop-ups weren't bad enough now they're coming to your home !

I do disagree with those who try to force it down your throat or who get upset because your views differ from theirs. A belief in God is between you and God, not anyone else. You are right, Top Secret--It doesn't concern anyone else at all, but there will always be those who try to force everyone else to think, act, dress, believe, the same way and that is that way it will always be unfortunately.

 

[No1_sonuk]

I'm not sure what you mean... are you criticizing organized religion? Are you criticizing a belief in god at all? Are you just pissed off at religion in general and didn't know how to word your post?

I think it has something to do with conservative Islam saying (heavily paraphrased) "Do it our way or die".

 

[Ome_Vince]

bweh, not another religion thread....

 

[jerkasaur]

the way i believe in god might differ to the way you do. i may not even believe in god, and that's noone's bussines.

 

[Talyn]

Well, the two major religions that irritate people this way are what we call "evangelical monotheistic" religions - that is to say, they believe that there is only one way to the Truth, and that Truth belongs to the entire world. If you look at it from that perspective, then you are actually doing a person a disservice by not at least trying to set them on the One True Path.

After all, Islam and Christianity are not ethno-cultural religions, they are religions that have spread throughout the world irrespective of race or nationality - and they have done this through converting people. Indeed, both the New Testament and the Quar'an are filled with exhortations to lead the "unbelievers" into the light.

Now, we've developed a culture (only in the past 70 years, or so, though) that has fostered tolerance for differences of religion, but for many devout people this "tolerance" is just letting a lot of people go to hell who might otherwise have been saved. My own religious beliefs notwithstanding, it is perfectly reasonable for members of evangelical religions to want to discuss with you ideas of God.

 

[CptStern]

yes but we dont want to listen ..I find that most religious people who try to talk to me about a religion are fine as long as I listen ..but once I start questioning they get all defensive and some even lose their temper

it's would be much better if people kept their thoughts to themselves ..I dont need/want to be saved so I'd appreciate it if they didnt make it their personal mission to change my mind

 

[VictimOfScience]

I dont need/want to be saved especially if it means joining a religion that in my eyes is hypocritical

Hmm, that narrows it down a bit. Buddhism is one of the most beautiful of the choices left. Now there's a religion that can help this world! But how to get the ball rolling...
Crusades? Nope.
Door-to-door "discussions?" Nope.
SPAM? Nope.
Let everyone else simply observe how we dwell in perfect peace and harmony? Yes, that sounds perfect.

To do no evil;

To cultivate good;

To purify one's mind:

This is the teaching of the Buddhas.

 

[CptStern]

ya I like buddism but spirituality isnt my thing at this point in time ..I do agree that buddism is probably the most enlightened religion around

 

[Top Secret]

ya I like buddism but spirituality isnt my thing at this point in time ..I do agree that buddism is probably the most enlightened religion around

Yep. Same here. 9th grade Religions class, I made up my mind that Buddhism was my favorite of all religions.

 

[No1_sonuk]

yes but we dont want to listen ..I find that most religious people who try to talk to me about a religion are fine as long as I listen ..but once I start questioning they get all defensive and some even lose their temper

A good few years ago, a couple of Jehova's Witnesses came touting to my door. I was in the garage out front working on my paintball gun. I'd just got the two halves back together when the bell goes. So I went to the door, holding the gun together. They left pretty quickly, and I've not seen any more since!
This might have had a lot to do with the type of gun. It was a Crossman 3357. For those of you paintballers that don't remember when semi-automatic didn't exist, the 3357 is a .50 calibre, CO2 powered revolver. It looks a lot like a 7 inch barrel 357 Magnum.

 

[Raziaar]

but once I start questioning they get all defensive and some even lose their temper

Anybody would lose their temper around you CptStern.

 

[falconwind]

As long as religious people continue to believe their religion is the only/true/best religion, and that their God is the only/true/best God, then we will always have this problem.

Christianity, as I understand it, specifically states in the bible that it's God is the one and only true God. This is why they will never shut up. They believe it is their god-given duty to undermine all other religions and to elevate their own... with the possible exception of Judaism... since that's supposed to be the same God. The point is that Christianity seems to have an inherent superiority complex, to the point of almost fascism these days.

I only single out Christianity because it has the largest fingers in the most pies.

Any religion that says "we believe in something else, but we understand and accept your religion as a well-intentioned substitute with its own merits, and don't think that our ways are especially better" has my utmost respect. Buddism, i believe holds such a policy.

Honestly, if religions were more humble in general, we'd had so much less bullshit going on.

 

[Raziaar]

Islam preaches the exact same things in regards to a one and only god, that Christianity does. So don't unfairly single out christianity.

 

[Ome_Vince]

@Falconwind, Right and the fact Christianity preaches tollerance, love and respect for everyone including "your enemies" you happen not to read?
Only the "there is one god" part...
People back then, as today only take the parts out of any text which they find interesting and need..

I agree Budhism sounds great, and its reputation in tollerance is great. But we shouldnt forget this:

What i hear people mixing up and basing opinions on are; a number of things including: Culture....
Europe has always been clashing with each other, it has fought skirmish battles, wars constantly since it existed/began to exist..
Cultures, people etc were anihilated and driven for various reasons.

Then christianity came->nothing changed... Yet we focus on Christianity's and claim its intollerance??
In the Middle-East same story...
Also the people that fled to the USA were basically the hard-core Christians, the ones fleeing Europe who was becoming less and less religious...

Couldnt intollerance rooted in the culture be a more pausable explanation of Europes/Middle-East/States intollerance?
How Christianity 2000 years ago was a "wrong tool" to have, like giving a kid a fire? A fire can warm you, but can also get out of hand and kill...
Looking at the various countries Christianity and Islam spread, why is it always Europe and the middle-east who are the boiling points of the world?

Culture goes a lonnnng lonnnggg way, and if you look at it closely, the most violant cultures that "addapt"->survive...
Without Europe's violant history for instance, there most likely would be no Europe, for a number of things would have caused its downfall -> for instance islamic hundreds of years of invasion which was eventually countered by the Crusades..,

We forget in the world its sad but true ( maybe not anymore but certainly in the past )-> its survival of the fittest ( doesnt meen strongest, more likely wisest )...
Europe's violant nature finally could up with itself during the World Wars in which Europe's population which was once huge, was cut down 65% in a 40 year timezone ( WW1, Spanish Flew + WW2 )..

Sounds like a divine punishment

Anyways, my point is, we shouldnt be so quick as to point out a patsy just because it makes us feel better about heritage..

 

[gick]

Any religion that says "we believe in something else, but we understand and accept your religion as a well-intentioned substitute with its own merits, and don't think that our ways are especially better" has my utmost respect. Buddism, i believe holds such a policy.

As far as I know, Sikhsm has a similar policy. Need to research that though..

 

[falconwind]

@Falconwind, Right and the fact Christianity preaches tollerance, love and respect for everyone including "your enemies" you happen not to read?
Only the "there is one god" part...
People back then, as today only take the parts out of any text which they find interesting and need..

well, believe it or not, i DID intend to mention this part of christianity as well. Loving one's neighbours and the sinner and such... I'm not sure where it went, I must have deleted it when I edited my post for length... but anyway...

yes, love your enemies and love the sinner... sounds good in theory, if only it were put into practice more readily. I was referring, generally, to Evangelical Christians of the extreme right... which seem to confuse love with loathing and contempt. Shaming and brow-beating people to conform to their standards. Though, as I have had it explained to me, this harsh treatment is BECAUSE they love them. Uh huh.

I don't mean to unfairly single out Christianity, as indeed Islam has the same singular God ideal and certainly has its downfalls and problems.

And I also agree with Ome_Vince, culture has ABSOLUTELY had an influence on Christianity and all religions, no doubt. Some for the better, some for the worse. Culture, society, and politics all factor into organized religions. The fact that there are many different interpretations of the Bible, the fact that there are many different churches with difference views and doctrines shows that too. I don't pretend to know exactly what God meant to convey to us through the Bible, but I'm fairly certain that when people interpret His word, they interpret it to their own liking and to their own ends. People use religion as a tool for control or for power and money, to further an agenda. A church also has to market itself so as to attract worshippers.

Perhaps, then, it is more accurate to say that is it not actually religion that is the root problem, but rather 'churches', organizations of worshippers.

I should point out that Islam has many of the same problems, in that Muslim extremists will also bend the rules and interpret differently the Koran to achieve their goals. They're just a lot more deadly.